B/R Heartless Vampires Suggestions?

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Today I decided to buy some stuff to make a standard legal deck after discovering that my old Vampire Nighthawk and Vampire Nocturnus were reprinted.
I haven't played since Zendikar so I'm not sure how much better I could have done. I love Heartless Summoning to pullout some awesome creatures quickly but it wasn't moving quite quick enough so I added Fume Spitter to get a 1 drop that I could sacrifice before casting heartless. 

 
You should have used those funds to build Zombies there actually viable.

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You should have used those funds to build Zombies there actually viable.


Thanks! Constructive pointers are always real, real helpful
He's right, though.  Vampires are a little too slow to keep up with the other decks in standard right now.  It's not that it's a bad deck concept, it's more that  there's nothing vampires can do that other decks don't already do better. 

Also, heartless summoning + blood artist seems like a bad idea.  As someone who abuses blood artist regularly, I can assure you that you want it on the table as long as possible. I know you're running 8 pump creatures, but depending on them to protect your artist, but one vapor snag will ruin your whole plan.
Next thing you will tell me Browbeat is bad.
I would consider replacing heartless summoning in this deck. Perhaps with sphere of the suns. I dont feel like this deck can get good value out of heartless, because -1/-1 hurts your aggro, and for a lot of vampires it only makes them 1 cheaper. Sphere allows you to cast bloodline keeper or olivia on turn 3 just as well as before. 
Sphere of the Suns is an awesome suggestion, I may go that route instead, unless I add in Bloodlord of Vaasgoth as I had planned.

The deck does seem to play a bit slower than I would like and, while I like to concept the creatures that are avaiable right now are a bit limiting. I guess I can only hope that October brings some viable creatures with it.

In the meantime I will proababally start throwing another standard-legal deck together. I looked into Zombies as Rorix suggested but couldn't come across anything that really jumped out at me. Last week I drafted W/B exhaulted which worked awesomely so I may try to go that route.

Any suggestions?
I sincerely believe that an aggresive B/R vampire deck is simply not competitive in the current standard. Like many other I tried, and failed, to build such a deck, and do not believe it can be done. B/R zombies (which does have several vampires) is simply a much better deck.

W/B exalted is similar to vampires in that even if you build it perfectly, I dont believe it functions well(when you try to make an agressive version)


I havent really put much thought into really controlling versions of B/W exalted or B/R vampires, so maybe there is something there (although I doubt it)

Now, I try new crazy deck ideas all the time. Most of them are just somewhat bad (recently I buit a deck trying to break faith's reward)


My advice for building decks is to look for cards that have a lot of potential. Cards like heartless summoning, puresteel paladin, birthing pod, faith's reward, snapcaster mage, disciple of bolas, restoration angel, talrand, sky summoner etc.

None of the above cards is that amazing on their own. All of those cards has the potential to be amazing. For example, if greater gargadon were in standard, then I think faith's reward could become a real deck. Some of those cards(snapcaster, birthing pod, etc) turned out to have the support they needed, and became some of the top decks in the format.

 Once you have a card or idea that you think has a lot of potential, invision the optimal start for the deck (this is less important for control decks perhaps, but still relevant). Once you see the kinds of plays you want your deck to be doing, focus on making those great starts as consistent as possible. Often you might have to sacrifice some degree of power for increased consistency (I built a puresteel paladin deck that  could theoretically kill on turn 2, but that version wasnt the best at winning games overall)

 Also, if you see that your "optimal start" is too slow, or just looks mediocre, its probably time to start questioning whether the concept can work at all. If a good start for your aggro deck kills your opponent on turn 6 if they do nothing, your deck is just too slow (if your deck is "aggro" it should goldfish(kill an opponent who does nothing) by turn 4 if all goes as planned in the current standard, for example).

Deckbuilding also takes a really good knowledge of the cards that are available in standard. This is definitely where people on the forums can help, by suggesting cards you might not have thought of.


My suggestion for a deck idea would be a mostly black deck that splashes white for restoration angel and lingering souls, and tries to abuse interactions between cards like geralf's messsenger and disciple of bolas (and of course restoration angel lets you resuse disciple).  

Here's what I don't understand. You have Heartless summoning in the deck but more than half your creatures will die the second heartless summoning hits the field while the rest of the creatures for the exception of two will only have the mana reduced 1.
I sincerely believe that an aggresive B/R vampire deck is simply not competitive in the current standard. Like many other I tried, and failed, to build such a deck, and do not believe it can be done. B/R zombies (which does have several vampires) is simply a much better deck.

W/B exalted is similar to vampires in that even if you build it perfectly, I dont believe it functions well(when you try to make an agressive version)


I havent really put much thought into really controlling versions of B/W exalted or B/R vampires, so maybe there is something there (although I doubt it)

Now, I try new crazy deck ideas all the time. Most of them are just somewhat bad (recently I buit a deck trying to break faith's reward)


My advice for building decks is to look for cards that have a lot of potential. Cards like heartless summoning, puresteel paladin, birthing pod, faith's reward, snapcaster mage, disciple of bolas, restoration angel, talrand, sky summoner etc.

None of the above cards is that amazing on their own. All of those cards has the potential to be amazing. For example, if greater gargadon were in standard, then I think faith's reward could become a real deck. Some of those cards(snapcaster, birthing pod, etc) turned out to have the support they needed, and became some of the top decks in the format.

 Once you have a card or idea that you think has a lot of potential, invision the optimal start for the deck (this is less important for control decks perhaps, but still relevant). Once you see the kinds of plays you want your deck to be doing, focus on making those great starts as consistent as possible. Often you might have to sacrifice some degree of power for increased consistency (I built a puresteel paladin deck that  could theoretically kill on turn 2, but that version wasnt the best at winning games overall)

 Also, if you see that your "optimal start" is too slow, or just looks mediocre, its probably time to start questioning whether the concept can work at all. If a good start for your aggro deck kills your opponent on turn 6 if they do nothing, your deck is just too slow (if your deck is "aggro" it should goldfish(kill an opponent who does nothing) by turn 4 if all goes as planned in the current standard, for example).

Deckbuilding also takes a really good knowledge of the cards that are available in standard. This is definitely where people on the forums can help, by suggesting cards you might not have thought of.


My suggestion for a deck idea would be a mostly black deck that splashes white for restoration angel and lingering souls, and tries to abuse interactions between cards like geralf's messsenger and disciple of bolas (and of course restoration angel lets you resuse disciple).  




This is awesome (albeit dissapointing) advice, it helps a ton, thanks, I'll have to get on something new and hope it becomes viable with the release of the next block!
vampires can work, but I don't believe they work with Heartless Summoning. If anything, you need to dominate the board with Go for the Throat/Flames of the Firebrand and Pillar of Flame early on (which work well to keep the field clear of Delver of Secrets, before you start dropping creatures.

I can eagerly suggest Black Sun's Zenith and Red Sun's Zenith for this colour combination, in tandem with Dragonskull Summit and a Stensia Bloodhall or two in the deck. Blood Artist and sweepers give you swing momentum when your opponent leasts expects it. Sphere of the Suns can help put you ahead a turn here, and Sign in Blood doubles up as last minute burn to bring your opponent into kill range.

Exquisite Blood might also work if you include more Lifelink and lifegain sources. Sorin Markov and Sorin's Vengeance of course works as a surprise win condition.

Don't despair, just because a deck isn't Tier 1 sweeping top 8's at worlds, doesn't mean it won't work at your FNM level. I run a deck in this colour and tribe, and it works well against most light or non-stall.

DCI Judge Level 1

Heartless & Vamps are like mixing oil & water. They're just not big/useful enough:
Compare them to Bloodgift Demon or Griselbrand

After reworking my deck about 6 times I ended up ditching Heartless Summoning for Sphere of the Suns, which led to the removal of Vampire Nocturnus and so on. Then I decided that if I was going to take out Nocturnus I could probably survive without Sphere. 50 Draws and mach play-throughs later I ended up with this:



Just in time for FNM. I ended up winning 3/5 of my matches and coming ridiculously close in another to taking game 3, lost it because I forgot all about Bump in the Night's flashback after its last minute addition.

While I think the deck can be improved and that it may never stand a chance against the top netdeck copies it was fun to play and was able to grab a few wins.

I have 2 copies of Sorin Markov laying around that I may throw in and will still take any suggestions. Thanks for your suggestions and help! 

Nocculum, I will definitely tweak this as per some of your suggestions, I wish I would have seen your post pre-FNM!

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