Dear WOTC, YOU SUCK AT MARKETING. No, really, FIRE someone.

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I have a clear perspective on this- I dont play DnD anymore, but  poke my head in every now and then out of geek curiosity:

You guys want new players? Want to keep the industry thriving?

Check It Out:

When you go to "Dungeons and Dragons.com", there should be a big BUTTON that says HOW TO PLAY.   That button should give you a FREE QUICK START PDF that...get this...SHOWS YOU HOW TO PLAY  (ideally, using --gasp--- six sided dice that can be rustled up by anyone.  Save the polyhedrals for the PHB, etc)

Then...

There can be another big button that says BUY THE GAME. That button can lead them to guess what...THE PLAYERS HANDBOOK.   And a game store that sells DICE.



Heh, smacks of a marketing department drinking too much of their own kool aid, no?

Currently playtesting Murder in Baldur's Gate with the current iteration of D&D Next.

Also running a 2nd edition AD&D game.

No, really...tell us how you -really- feel.

Yah...the site layout gets to me too.  I still can't find my way back here from my Profile page, I just had to bookmark it and reclick that instead.  Or hit 'Back' until it shows up...but if I've changed something or whatnot, then it can take longer than just reloading the whole kit'n'caboodle.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."



Oh right, I do see the Quick start PDF now.

Good work.

Check it:

1.  MAKE IT USE SIX SIDERS. (gasp- blasphemy!)

2.  STOP DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN THE RPG AND THE BOARD GAMES.  

Its CONFUSING to a new customer who just wants to know...

 WHAT DND IS.

You guys have a skirmish game, boardgames, CONFUUUSIINNNGGGG.......  
Wait, I thought this was "Troll's gonna troll."

This is serious?
I think us customers deserve a survey so we can give some quality feedback to the marketing team in regards to the web site.

Currently playtesting Murder in Baldur's Gate with the current iteration of D&D Next.

Also running a 2nd edition AD&D game.

Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.

Well, I sort of ducked the whole 3.x period, but the runup to 4e seems to have been pretty much "how not to do things". It isn't only their marketing though, they've made other huge boners over the years too.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.



I can assure you they are trying.  

You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all of the D&D player base at the same time.

At least not without some really in depth feedback.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

I thought this thread was about the 4th edition fiasco of only lasting 3 years (and the what? 1 release this year). I'm still surprised a number of the staff have not been eliminated for a new one.

I'm wondering how the public playtest thing is bad marketing? People should know that the new marketing campaign begins a month or two before the release. Then you will see all the new features on the website, information being handed out, and the new marketing gimmick. Right now, Hasbaro is not going to spend any real money on marketing.

I think the OP's focus was the web site, which we all kind of agree needs better navigation.

Currently playtesting Murder in Baldur's Gate with the current iteration of D&D Next.

Also running a 2nd edition AD&D game.

Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.



I can assure you they are trying.  

You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all of the D&D player base at the same time.

At least not without some really in depth feedback.


If you mean the playtest, then yes, they are trying.  However, I really don't see them attempting to ease the edition change outside of the playtest.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

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Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.



I can assure you they are trying.  

You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all of the D&D player base at the same time.

At least not without some really in depth feedback.


If you mean the playtest, then yes, they are trying.  However, I really don't see them attempting to ease the edition change outside of the playtest.



How do you provide customer support on a playtest without  being seen as taking sides or being to wishy washy?

It's difficult to do so as a single poster who wants compromise.  Can you imagine how it is for a company that everyone knows will make the final descision?

Take a look at how we treat each other on the forums and tell me how would you please us all?

I serioisly doubt I could do any better than they have.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.


That, and you gotta give it up for how god-awfully they've handled customer relations during edition changes.  I get that edition changes are probably the hardest part of the business, from a customer service pov, but it often seems like they're not even trying.



I can assure you they are trying.  

You can please some of the people all of the time.
You can please all of the people some of the time.
But you can't please all of the D&D player base at the same time.

At least not without some really in depth feedback.


If you mean the playtest, then yes, they are trying.  However, I really don't see them attempting to ease the edition change outside of the playtest.



How do you provide customer support on a playtest without  being seen as taking sides or being to wishy washy?

It's difficult to do so as a single poster who wants compromise.  Can you imagine how it is for a company that everyone knows will make the final descision?

Take a look at how we treat each other on the forums and tell me how would you please us all?

I serioisly doubt I could do any better than they have.


Customer service isn't always about fixing things or what the final decision will be.  One of the most important things is for customers to feel heard and valued, even customers who are not participating in the playtest.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

Granted Mecha,

So what is it specifically that you have encountered with customer service that you find lacking?

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

Granted Mecha, So what is it specifically that you have encountered with customer service that you find lacking?


The lack thereof.  I played both 3e and 4e, and liked them both.  I filled out the survey cards that were included in the backs of the books.  I also was a DDI subscriber for a while (so I know WotC had my contact info).  I never received any emails thanking me for my patronage of former editions, or received any other contact from the company.  Even a simple questionnaire about what elements of the game I found most enjoyable, what mechanics were unwieldy, etc would have helped me feel like they were paying attention to what I wanted.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

#BoobsNotBlood

Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.



Possibly, but the WoTC web site is still superior to 90% of the sites out there (well... let's call it 80%).

Honestly, if the potential player has made it as far as the web site, Wizard's marketing department has already won. My beef with their marketing is that they don't do enough to attract new players; they seem to be on a mission to win back old customers, which I personally find almost offensive. I'd much rather they lured new players in with new concepts and directions for the game than see D&D regress in an attempt to appeal to the old fan base.

Well, I agree the website could use some fairly drastic cosmetic surgery to be less "busy". I think the largest area of marketing that I see WotC failing at is false/broken promises. The marketing peoiple that thought it was a great idea to advertise the VTT in the back page of the 4e PHB while it was still vaporware need some retraining.

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The launch of 4e saw a new website design, big plans for a internet hub for gamers (Gleemax), big plans for D&D Insider.  A lot of high expectations, turned to disappoinntments.

It's my belief that they are entirely focused on getting DDN tested and launched.  Everything else is naturally gonna fall by the wayside.  Still plenty of time for marketing.  I'm betting they take a more down to earth approach this time though, no promising the sky (and failing to deliver).  

They've made no big announcements for DDI for instance.  I wouldn't be surprised if they simply haven't focused on it yet.  I do wonder what their plans are though.  I hate the way Insider is handled like a side project sometimes, rather than a straight-up endeavor.
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My biggest "pet peeve" with the WotC Web site is the total lack of user friendly programming.

It is simple common sense that, if I click on a Login button, I should be able to start typing my User ID without having to make another click in the User ID field.

The same goes for the Post Reply button on these forums; why do I have to then click, again, in the text area before I can start typing?

These are simple attributes to set and they tell me how much the designers really care (or not) about my browsing experience.

EDIT: Corrected a spelling error (another "pet peeve"). 
Granted Mecha, So what is it specifically that you have encountered with customer service that you find lacking?


The lack thereof.  I played both 3e and 4e, and liked them both.  I filled out the survey cards that were included in the backs of the books.  I also was a DDI subscriber for a while (so I know WotC had my contact info).  I never received any emails thanking me for my patronage of former editions, or received any other contact from the company.  Even a simple questionnaire about what elements of the game I found most enjoyable, what mechanics were unwieldy, etc would have helped me feel like they were paying attention to what I wanted.

There is no such thing as a simple questionnaire... they did try that in the various columns of DDI in the past few years and you should have seen the discussions about those ;)

As for proactively contacting customers, I don't know about American laws, but I know European ones can pose a limit on such actions. I have heard marketing people in my department grumble about it at the time where they could not proactively offer reductions and special favors to existing customers. Mind you, I am not a marketeer and was not involved in that actual project, nor am I a lawyer, so I have no idea how correct the grumbler was ;)
Eh, I gotta sympathize with the OP to a certain extent. WotC's site is WAY too busy and is pretty confusing. There is all sorts of stuff on it you'll never find in 100 years.



Possibly, but the WoTC web site is still superior to 90% of the sites out there (well... let's call it 80%).

Honestly, if the potential player has made it as far as the web site, Wizard's marketing department has already won. My beef with their marketing is that they don't do enough to attract new players; they seem to be on a mission to win back old customers, which I personally find almost offensive. I'd much rather they lured new players in with new concepts and directions for the game than see D&D regress in an attempt to appeal to the old fan base.


Seems to me they've done everything they probably have the resources to do to get the word out to new players. 4e was a huge splash on the gaming scene, so certainly everyone old or new that pays any attention knew about it. It was all over social media, in every game and book store, promoted with Encounters, supported with LFR, and then promoted more with Lair Assault. They did special game days, etc etc etc. They put out a red box to go in toy stores. Short of some preposterously expensive media campaign that is simply NOT going to happen what else could they do to reach out to new players? Who ARE the potential new players?
That is not dead which may eternal lie

The forum is having issues showing photos, so I have to include links.


When you go to "Dungeons and Dragons.com", there should be a big BUTTON that says HOW TO PLAY.


You mean like this?


Which leads to this?


That button should give you a FREE QUICK START PDF that...get this...SHOWS YOU HOW TO PLAY


You mean like this?


ideally, using --gasp--- six sided dice that can be rustled up by anyone.


Wait.  You want them to write an entirely different system that ignored the polyhedrals?  And you think that's the best use of a developer's time?


There can be another big button that says BUY THE GAME.


Like this button?


That button can lead them to guess what...THE PLAYERS HANDBOOK.


You mean the button I just showed you, which leads to this?


And a game store that sells DICE.


You mean by clicking on "Learn More", which leads to...


And that button leads to...



Seems to me that, except for writing an entirely new game that uses only d6, the website does everything you requested in pretty much the exact order you requested it to be in.

1.  MAKE IT USE SIX SIDERS. (gasp- blasphemy!)


No, really unrealistic proposals are not "blasphemy".  They're just unrealistic.

2.  STOP DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN THE RPG AND THE BOARD GAMES.

Its CONFUSING to a new customer who just wants to know...

 WHAT DND IS.

You guys have a skirmish game, boardgames, CONFUUUSIINNNGGGG.......  


Yes, if only the main page at www.dungeonsanddragons.com has some button that answered the question "What is D&D?".  Something like this, perhaps?



And wouldn't it be great if that button led to a separate webpage where each component of the D&D brand were explained -- RPGs, board games, videogames, and fiction -- so that people wouldn't find it so "CONFUUUSIINNGGGG"?  Maybe something like this?



Sadly, Wizards just doesn't seem to want to put the effort in.
WRECAN REALLY

1.  MAKE IT USE SIX SIDERS. (gasp- blasphemy!)


No, really unrealistic proposals are not "blasphemy".  They're just unrealistic.

2.  STOP DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN THE RPG AND THE BOARD GAMES.

Its CONFUSING to a new customer who just wants to know...

 WHAT DND IS.

You guys have a skirmish game, boardgames, CONFUUUSIINNNGGGG.......  


Yes, if only the main page at www.dungeonsanddragons.com has some button that answered the question "What is D&D?".  Something like this, perhaps?



And wouldn't it be great if that button led to a separate webpage where each component of the D&D brand were explained -- RPGs, board games, videogames, and fiction -- so that people wouldn't find it so "CONFUUUSIINNGGGG"?  Maybe something like this?



Sadly, Wizards just doesn't seem to want to put the effort in.



He says stop differentiating between the roleplaying game and the board game... and you point out they are differentiated as if its some sort of point? His whole point is he just wants to know what D&D is about, if he doesn't know anything more about D&D than it's some fantasy thing, any one of those 4 options could be the core product, he has no idea where to look first. And yes, there are lots of people out there who actually do not know what a tabletop roleplaying game is. 

Additionally, if you DO click on roleplaying games, and follow the link there, it takes you to: www.wizards.com/dnd/RPG.aspx where the first thing you see is a nice big advertisement for 1st edition D&D book reprints. This is what the OP was complaining about in the first post. That is the sort of thing that will confuse the **** out of a new player. From there, in addition to the 1st edition books, you also have 3.5 reprints, and a couple random splats, but nowhere on there do I see any advertisement for the 4th edition core or the 5th edition playtest.

Seriously this whole site is a mess, and I get lost looking for things frequently, despite having been registered here for years and being relatively internet savvy. While I wouldn't fire the marketting team for this, whoever designed the website should be sacked and they need to redesign the whole thing in a more intuitive and user friendly layout. The marketting department should be fired and replaced for completely different reasons.
I don't usually find myself agreeing with wrecan, but...

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He says stop differentiating between the roleplaying game and the board game... and you point out they are differentiated as if its some sort of point?


No, I point out there's an entire page devoted to explaining what the D&D brand is.  See that parargraph above the four subcategories?  It's a nice little encapsulation.

His whole point is he just wants to know what D&D is about, if he doesn't know anything more about D&D than it's some fantasy thing


Which is why the page explains what it is about.  And then it explains that there are four components to the brand.  So it does in fact not differentiates amongst the products until after it has explained whatthe brand is.

yes, there are lots of people out there who actually do not know what a tabletop roleplaying game is.


Wel, gee.  It's a good thing the page I linked to explains what a tabletop roleplaying game is, then, right?

Additionally, if you DO click on roleplaying games, and follow the link there, it takes you to: www.wizards.com/dnd/RPG.aspx where the first thing you see is a nice big advertisement for 1st edition D&D book reprints. This is what the OP was complaining about in the first post. That is the sort of thing that will confuse the **** out of a new player.


Which is why the webpage as a big honking button in the middle fo the page that says "NEW TO D&D".  If you're new to D&D, and you go to the webpage, maybe you should click on the link "NEW TO D&D?" before you go exploring through the other links.  Unless you're suggesting the opening page should have no othe rlinks, lest a new player accidentally click on anything else and become confused.

Seriously this whole site is a mess, and I get lost looking for things frequently, despite having been registered here for years and being relatively internet savvy. While I wouldn't fire the marketting team for this, whoever designed the website should be sacked and they need to redesign the whole thing in a more intuitive and user friendly layout. The marketting department should be fired and replaced for completely different reasons.


Sigh.  That you have a problem doesn't mean it's generally unintuitive.  I figuredout the OP's concerns within three seconds... and by followign the suggestions he claims didn't work for him.  You know why?  Because he didn't actually look at the website very closely.

And that's not unusual.  Lots of people -- particularly those who imagine themselves internet savvy -- figure they can just navigate around a website by clicking whatever strikes their fancy.

The webstie is fine.  What, precisely, do you have probelms finding?  Perhaps I can help with a ueful tutorial made form screencaps.
Other than these forums, I don't have much of a use for WotC's website and cannot even remember the last time I clicked around on it.  What are ya'll using it for?
Logging into DDI, mostly. Aside from that? Uhhhhh.....rummaging around Dragonshards articles?

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I click on Daily D&D each morning just to see the new article.  Other than that, I use the Tools button to get to DDi.
I can sum up WotC's marketing issues with one word: soon.
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Well, the two are tied together.  We'll get awesome electronic game tools ... soon. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

Section Six Soldier

Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

No promises of vaporware, don't mock anything about other editions' fluff, clearly communicate why some ideas are chosen to be included in DNN and some are not.

There should be a healthy amount of articles that help the DM with running the game, whether it's discussions about tactics, NPCs, etc. This should be offered for free, because you need to convince people the initial cost is worth it in the face of entertainment alternatives.

There should be more about advantages of roleplaying over computer games. Most people that I've seen don't see the value in playing RPGs over CRPGs. I've even had a person say, "Who doesn't like D&D, that's crazy" only to correct themselves, "Oh, I was talking about Baldur's Gate. The PnP stuff is silly."
There should be a healthy amount of articles that help the DM with running the game, whether it's discussions about tactics, NPCs, etc. This should be offered for free, because you need to convince people the initial cost is worth it in the face of entertainment alternatives.


You mean like the Dungeon Master Experience archives?  You get to that by clicking on "Daily D&D" and then scroll down a little bit an you'll see a tab called "Free".  That tab gives you all the free content.  Among all the free content is the most recent DM Experience article.  Click on the article headling and go to the most recent article.  Or simply click on "DM Experience" and be taken to the archive of all the articles.  A treasure trove of DM advice for free from Christopher Perkins, D&D's DM-in-Chief.

There should be more about advantages of roleplaying over computer games.


What would you suggest?  D&D has been fighting the "You guys are silly" meme since 1974, and is an offshoot of miniature wargaming, which has been fighting the "You guys are silly" meme since H,G, Wells published Floor Games in 1911.  If you know the way to stop people from thinking it's silly to sit around a table face to face with people and pretend you're an elf as you interact with a guy who is called the "dungeon master", I'm all ears ('cause you know, elf.)
Honestly? I've never seen those DM Experience articles in the last 9-10 years of being at this site. [Sciborg2 died in 2007 during the Gleemax switchover.] I'm willing to accept it was my stupidity, but then again I'm the one paying WotC for the product.

"If you know the way to stop people from thinking it's silly to sit around a table face to face with people and pretend you're an elf as you interact with a guy who is called the "dungeon master", I'm all ears ('cause you know, elf.)"

If I knew the answer, I'd already be interviewing at WotC's marketing department. Seriously though, I think a lot of people don't see how playing a good adventure path can be very different, and much funner, than traveling through the low-AI, rather static world of a CRPG.

eta:

How about this? Give a lot of low level adventures of all sorts that showcase the value of roleplaying?

(I have no idea if this is a good suggestion or if it's been tried. Just throwing it out there.)
If I knew the answer, I'd already be interviewing at WotC's marketing department. Seriously though, I think a lot of people don't see how playing a good adventure path can be very different, and much funner, than traveling through the low-AI, rather static world of a CRPG.


Having played with many different DMs across many different editions and other RPGs, the sad conclusion that I've drawn is that with the average DM a PnP RPG is not more fun than a CRPG, and is often more boring to boot.  It is only with the better DMs that a PnP RPG comes into its own.

The last time I looked into an Encounters game (admittedly about 2 years ago), my eyes glazed over from boredom at the dull monotone and lack of emotion from the DM. 
I think a lot of people don't see how playing a good adventure path can be very different, and much funner, than traveling through the low-AI, rather static world of a CRPG.


Agreed.  But because of the reputation of silliness, people don't try.

Give a lot of low level adventures of all sorts that showcase the value of roleplaying?


The people who think tabletop roleplaying is silly aren't shopping for adventures.  The people curious about D&D have plenty of material available on the website.

And yes, it was tried.  And triedAnd tried.
My beef with their marketing is that they don't do enough to attract new players; they seem to be on a mission to win back old customers, which I personally find almost offensive. I'd much rather they lured new players in with new concepts and directions for the game than see D&D regress in an attempt to appeal to the old fan base.


Seems to me they've done everything they probably have the resources to do to get the word out to new players. 4e was a huge splash on the gaming scene, so certainly everyone old or new that pays any attention knew about it. It was all over social media, in every game and book store, promoted with Encounters, supported with LFR, and then promoted more with Lair Assault. They did special game days, etc etc etc. They put out a red box to go in toy stores.

Just about all of that targets old or lapsed players or the rare exiting gamer who hadn't yet tried D&D.

Short of some preposterously expensive media campaign that is simply NOT going to happen what else could they do to reach out to new players? Who ARE the potential new players?

Computer gamers, fans of fantasy novels and anction movies, fans of comic books, MMO players (thus "4e is an MMO!" - WotC /wishes/ it were, they'd be burried in money), and, of course, younger kids who haven't embraced a hobby yet.  How to reach them?  Not sure - maybe social media and conventions dedicated to some of those related things?  


However, I do get the impression that 4e attracted a lot of new players.   I'm guessing that the combined markets of D&D, Pathfinder, and retro-clones are significantly bigger than just the market for D&D in 2007.   retro-clones & Pathfinder pulled existing D&Ders away from D&D.  4e must have attracted new players.  IMPX, 4e is played by a younger crowd that 3.5 was.  At my FLGS, encounters is running 3 tables - officially 18 players - and only 3 or 4 of us had been playing 3.5 when 4e came out.  A couple had played AD&D back in the day and were lured back by the Red Box.  The rest are new to the hobby, several via M:tG.  I see the same thing at conventions.  Pathfinder and older eds are as numerous (or post-Essentials, a little more numerous) as 4e, but the 4e players are younger on average.  Of course, convention-goers tend to be older, I've seen the same faces at some conventions for the last 20-30 years.

Of course, it's easy to see the great failing of 4e in the success of Pathfinder (and retro-clones) - and that means trying to win back older customers.


 

 

 

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Computer gamers, fans of fantasy novels and anction movies, fans of comic books, MMO players (thus "4e is an MMO!" - WotC /wishes/ it were, they'd be burried in money), and, of course, younger kids who haven't embraced a hobby yet.  How to reach them?  Not sure - maybe social media and conventions dedicated to some of those related things?  


So....there is a significant number of potential fans who haven't heard that D&D exists? 
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