5-Colour Legacy - Ruin and heavy hitters

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Hello.

Some background info, I quit magic after the invasion block, but have lately begun to play casually again, no deck format limits besides the standard ones. Ive been toying with reassembling a 5-colour deck, but i was always more a player than a deckbuilder so to speak.

The main idea is split into 3 parts:
1 - mana accelerate to hit 5 colours as fast as possible.
2 - Nuke with Global ruin to destroy the enemy mana-base, groundskeeper and fertile ground limit the damage to myself, as well as allow me to harrow without destroying my own mana.

3 - Use my heavy hitters to annihilate them. If possible, pull a cromat-victory combo. Also, using gate and legacy to keep up superiority.


However, I would be interested in some feedback before I start getting the cards I need, fortunately, most of the cards I either already have, or are really cheap to get.

Was thinking of maybe adding in more heavy creatures, so far in test draws, I have been able to hit 5 mana pretty fast and regularly, so seems the 3-4 mana creatures are fairly skippable, and I have options for getting health back and thus recovering from early punches. Also toying with the idea of maybe upping the deck to 65 cards, but that might create problems getting the mana base i need. Also, focusing more on green mana since its needed to power up my acceleration. Maybe throw a planeswalker in?

So, any thoughts and suggestions?

magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=...

1 Cromat
2 Draco
2Groundskeeper
3 Wall of Reverence
2 Maelstrom Archangel
2 Quirion dryad (to be replaced with primordial hydra once i get a hold of some.
1 Crosis, the purger
1 Teneb, the harvester
1 Numot, the devastator



Creatures [15]

1 Coalition Victory
2 Collective Restraint
3 Darksteel Ingot
4 Fertile Ground
1 Genju of the Realm
3 Global Ruin
4 Harrow
1 Obelisk of Alara
1 Conflux
1 Nicol bolas, Planeswalker
1 Legacy weapon
1 Maelstrom Nexus
2 Allied Strategies

Spells [25]

8 Forest
3 Island
3 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Terramorphic expanse

Lands: 24

First, you will probably get more responses if you post your deck here instead of linking it.

As for your deck, here is a nasty deck that was hated by my playgroup. All 5 colors are typically available by turn 3 or 4. 

Lands 24
4 Terramorphic Expanse or Evolving Wilds
6 Forest
4 Plains 
4 Island
3 Swamp
3 Mountain

Ramp: 12
4 Search for Tomorrow or Lay of the Land
4 Explore
4 Harrow

Control Suite: 19
4 Evasive Action
3 Global Ruin
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wrath of God or Day of Judgment
3 Tribal Flames
1 Fanning the Flames
1 Exotic Curse
Primal Command
1 Legacy Weapon

Win Conditions:5
1 Numot, the Devastator
1 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Rith, the Awakener
1 Obelisk of Alara
1 Crosis, the Purger

You pretty much hamstring the person hard. Then proceed with slow beat down with Dragons.

 
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
Thanks for the response. Already switched a few terramorphics into my test deck, although while i can certainly see what the intent of the deck you listed is, wont relying on just 5 creatures for win conditions leave it vulnerable to decks who can get rid of those?

Also, note that the linked deck and listed deck are different, mostly due to playing around with tweaks and adjustments, while also wanting to keep a list of what i had as a starting point, so the link is WiP, while the list up there is the current "set in stone" point, until i create a new one ;)
I've actually never had issues with only 5 creatures because I am the control deck. I only put down the creatures once I have established control of the board. You should see the deck in action in action. The Obelisk serves as a non creature win condition and Fanning the Flames is a repeatable X-burn spell. Primal Command can also reshuffle my graveyard back into my library for more fun.

Numot is the most devastating out of all of the win cons since it royally hamstrings mana bases especially after a Global Ruin. There are a few other good spells I use that I didn't include like Voices of the Void
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
I get great value from Allied Strategies in my domain deck.

My deck wins through Coalition Victory on the back of Transguild Courier, with alternate wins through Nephilim beatdown.

That Obelisk of Alara is something I will keep an eye out for.

Cheers!
A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
lol! 5 colours have really become spoilt for choise since I last played magic! Im almost tempted to just make a secondary deck that focuses on control!

Been running some tests with the modified deck, and over 100 draws i hit 4.53 mana on average by turn 4, although the vast majority of tests i end up with 5-7 mana, especially lucky or unlucky draws resulting in 8 or 0-2 mana :S Overall, the amount of mana seems fine to get the multicoloured machine going, and getting in some terramorphic really helped avoid that my colours blocked me. Also replaced planar portal entirely with conflux, and replaced a cromat with a maelstrom angel. (recycling, and still fufills Coalition victory, yay!). I would like to include more of the utility spells, like evasive maneuvers and voices of the void, but still not sure what to lose.

Also prefer sticking to using land-boosters instead of land-finders as they work better with global ruin. If you have 3 forests out, you still lose them, but if you got one forest with fertile ground you retain the full 2 mana.

Still considering if maybe the path to take is to increase to 65, throwing in 1-2 more lands and 3 other cards, but it would reduce my access to 4Xcards, on the other hand, it would give more toys to play around with and there are several win conditions in already.

Also, been pondering if to toss in something like a planeswalker, is it worth it? And where would you cut if you had to in order to throw in some cards that could better optimize it?

And finally: Nephilim beatdown? Im a bit of an old player, so not quite sure how that works. Looked up some nephilim cards but they seemed kind of mid-power, but im really curious, any more details? ^^
I forgot to mention Prismatic Omen; many forumites swear by it in five-color decks.  I have not tried it, so cannot vouch for it, but it does look good.

As for the Nephilim, I initially tried a deck featuring a pair of each Nephilim, backed by Might of the Nephilim, Blessing of the Nephilim, and Psychotic Fury.  With time and play experience, I realized that only Ink-Treader Nephilim and Yore-Tiller Nephilim were the ones doing the heavy lifting, so I ditched the others and acquired more of these.

Basically, once I take control, I swing with the Nephilim - it is mostly slow and steady, but with enough blowouts (Might of the Nephilim and Psychotic Fury on Ink-Treader leaves me with monsters) that I keep coming back for more.  Nothing fancy, just synergy and a bit of luck of the draw.  Oh, and perhaps a metagame that makes poor removal choices.

Cheers!


A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
Thanks for the feedback everyone! No idea how on earth i missed Prismatic omen, although I am starting to have my doubt, since getting 5 colours is not a biggie, but it would allow to focus more on green without suffering the penalty as much. ^^  Fortunately US prices are so cheap I was able to get both the heavy hitters and the cheap control cards suggested in the first reply, so will be doing some actual playtesting to find out how to tweak it.

Also, pondering if Maelstrom nexus is worth it, as I hae many high cost cards (cascade draco, hooo!) howeer that could also work against cascades, hmm....

Also, never used a sidedeck before, any tisp for what kind of cards one usually uses in a sidedeck?
Also, never used a sidedeck before, any tisp for what kind of cards one usually uses in a sidedeck?

Sideboarding - both the creation of one and knowing how to use it - is more art than science (which is one reason why I don't use them).

Regardless, sideboards generally contain cards that are great against specific strategies or colors, but crap against all else.  For example, Perish utterly destroys green creature decks, but against other colors and even green decks NOT based on creatures, that same Perish is a dead draw.  With that in mind, you don't want to maindeck that Perish.

So the first part of the art lies in determining what decks or deck strategies you'll face in regular play (your metagame) and the second part is determining which cards could be run that help you against those decks.  The third part can often be the hardest - deciding which cards to take out and replace with your sideboard, since it is supposed to be a 1-for-1 exchange.

Cheers!


A shout out to Gaming Grounds in Kent, Ohio and Gamers N Geeks in Mobile, Alabama. www.zombiehunters.org for all your preparation needs. http://shtfschool.com/ - why prepping is useful, from one who has been there.
It's not the path for everyone, but here's a 5-color deck I put together recently:


Honden of Cleansing Fire 
Honden of Seeing Winds
Honden of Night's Reach
Honden of Infinite Rage
Honden of Life's Web
x2 Dega Sanctuary
x2 Ceta Sanctuary
x2 Necra Sanctuary 
x2 Raka Sanctuary
x2 Abundant Growth
x2 Sterling Grove
Door to Nothingness
Protective Sphere
x2 Prophetic Prism
x4 Wayfarer's Bauble  
Holy Day
Dismantling Blow
x3 Terminate
Planar Despair
x4 Prophetic Bolt
Last Stand
x3 Putrefy
Legacy Weapon

x4 Evolving Wilds
Terramorphic Expanse
x3 Plains
x3 Island
x3 Swamp
x3 Mountain
x3 Forest

I slapped it together just with things I had ready at hand, so it's more into singletons than I'd like. Still, I'm pretty happy with how it came out for casual play. I've run it once against a friend, and they wound up with a couple creature kill cards stuck in their hand while they melted in front of Necra Sanctuary.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
That deck of yours looks like a total hoot! Would certainly hate to play against it, especially since in my experience people have limited ways of dealing with enchantments, mostly preferring to have a few spells to deal with the really bad ones.

So far I am pretty happy with what ive got going, although I am a bit confused: I had 21 lands, without terramorphic, and my mana averaged 4.53 over 100 draws, by turn 4. I switched a few forests for terramorphs, threw in an extra one for a total of 4 out of 22 lands, and did not modify my mana acceleration otherwise, and it actually dropped by 0.08 down to 4.45. Now bad luck aside, logic says it should have increased?? Or am I missing something totally obvious?  It also resulted in bigger instability in the numbers, going either extremely good or extremely bad, whereas before it was fairly stable :S Hmm, actually, this could probably be its own thread....
Finally had some time to play around with the deck.

So far it's track record, vs a player i will admit is way better than me, is a 5 win 2 losses.
The key here is supression, accelleration didnt quite work and more often than not, i did not get to move as fast as I did with my initial builds in terms of mana. Fortunately, after some live experience it is also clear that the deck has more time than previously assumed to get its stuff going. However, the part of the plan involving keeping the enemy at bay went better than expected, Collective restraint shut down the entire enemy army several times, and keeping a 576/576 Primordial Hydra at bay the entire game, especially when global ruin hit the table. It was not as devastating to the enemy mana as it could have been, but still managed to prevent the enemy from reaching the 4-5 mana needed, and the reliance on nonbasic lands just bit her in the backside. In one particular game, the enemy had so many creatures out he had to use wolf tokens as zombies and could have easily delivered well over 50 damage in a single attack, but that one enchantment stopped him dead. wall of reverence Also worked as intended, and at one point i was gaining 18 hp every single round, to the point where we just stopped bothering to track my hp.

About the offensive part of the deck. It was less devastation than I thought it would be and fairly rarily got more than 1-2 big hitters out. The good news is that with pretty much all of them being flyers, and whenever i did get them moving, they proved to be very hard for the enemy to kill or get rid of. One game in particular saw the enemy exile 14 of my cards, and I was still eventually able to get out a few dragons which almost turned the game around. Actually, come to think of it, both losses resulted from the enemy succesfully getting rid of my defense, although I have yet to face the truly mean blue and black decks, which I suspect will make me cry.

Hmm, what more to say....I tried out Maelstrom nexus and it proved to be fairly useless in this, will likely shift it out with another creature or card finder like conflux. Maelstrom archangel is as expected one of the best things ever, and oh my god. Nicol bolas, planeswalker is admittedly in because I like the card, but he turned out to single-handedly win the games the second he came out.

Will keep working on it, got some games on tuesday that should see me face the harder decks for me.

EDIT: will update card list tomorrow as I dont have the deck on hand right now.
I also HAD a 5 color deck myself that i took apart because my friends hated on me everytime i played it but im currently trying to put together a 5 color deck that can work better then what i origonally had. I myself use Prismatic Omen and i say use em if you get em. then get 1 or 2 Last Stands just to severly hurt somebody. this combo has save my rear end on more then once, and very rarely has it ever let me down.

My 5 color ran one of all five Bringers and Armillary Spheres and a few Fusion Elementals, and Scuttlemutt + Coalition Victory is also the best way to make somebody mad from what i have noticed XD
>reminder to self< Best not to argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience
That deck of yours looks like a total hoot! Would certainly hate to play against it, especially since in my experience people have limited ways of dealing with enchantments, mostly preferring to have a few spells to deal with the really bad ones.

So far I am pretty happy with what ive got going, although I am a bit confused: I had 21 lands, without terramorphic, and my mana averaged 4.53 over 100 draws, by turn 4. I switched a few forests for terramorphs, threw in an extra one for a total of 4 out of 22 lands, and did not modify my mana acceleration otherwise, and it actually dropped by 0.08 down to 4.45. Now bad luck aside, logic says it should have increased?? Or am I missing something totally obvious?  It also resulted in bigger instability in the numbers, going either extremely good or extremely bad, whereas before it was fairly stable :S Hmm, actually, this could probably be its own thread....



I think what you're running into is the fact that Terramorphic Expanse causes the resulting basic land to come into play tapped. They're good for helping you fix your colors, but they're dubious for a deck that wants to cast Search for Tomorrow on turn 1.

And yeah, my deck is pretty stupid against stuff like Murder. If someone shows anything remotely like Tranquility, though, I might as well scoop.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
Ok, I  have updated the original post to reflect my current setup, still includes the nexus, since i wonder if doubble conflux is overdoing it since also using 2 allied strategies, even if the look on the opponents face if you get one off is that of a man looking at the gallows ;)

Ive been considering the last stand and primatic combo, if nothing else then for the lolz of it, although the blue part of Last stand is a bit of a problem, so it is a slight all in move, although one that would probably work more often than not. Maybe I could increase the deck size to 65 to fit it in, but then im reducing my mana-boosting capabilities by having less chance to draw one of my mana cards.

Also, Black_egg, you are now officially my favorite dude on this forum! Only one that actually bothered to answer the question, whereas even in the dedicated thread, people answered everything but the question! XD You have a good point about how coming into play tapped is a delay in most cases, however i doubt i can afford to just ignore them entirely, as they help mana fixing and getting that vital green mana out, while still being relevant later. Hmm, maybe replace them with a mix of green mana and prismatic omen could be an idea? (sorry americans, but your prices are so cheap that even "higher price" rares are cheaper than uncommon cards over here, so ending up with a mostly rares deck ^^)

Love what a turn 1 search for tomorrow could do, however my main reservation is about anything past turn 1, where the suspend becomes a rather long wait for 1 land, and the raw cost makes it technically inferiour to harrow in a lot of situations. The main benefit however being that you dont sacrifice a land for it, and its provides the same long-term mana increase, with main difference being this leaves you with 1 mana after cast opposed to 2 from harrow. Dunno, like both cards so completely torn on this one ;)


Ive been considering the last stand and primatic combo, if nothing else then for the lolz of it, although the blue part of Last stand is a bit of a problem, so it is a slight all in move, although one that would probably work more often than not. Maybe I could increase the deck size to 65 to fit it in, but then im reducing my mana-boosting capabilities by having less chance to draw one of my mana cards.




I use Emrakul, the Aeons Torn to fix that situation XD

>reminder to self< Best not to argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience
Have gotten a few more tests in, and the deck keeps performing strongly. M biggest troubbles so far have been against a UR blast-control RTR deck (one of the duel decks.). Have had the good fortune of not running into any true control or discard decks yet. The overall strategy works; Keep the enemy at bay until you can get out your heavy stuff, and then overwhelm him. Even when he does manage to get rid of my heavy hitters, it is almost never a 1 for 1 trade, meaning that eventually he runs out of options and gets overwhelmed. Mana has been a bit his and miss, but they do tend to be unable to kill me before i hit the magical 3 mana that gets my deck going, while getting one of each land out has also been something that happened pretty much every game, and once I get 5-10 life per turn from Wall of reverence they are usually on the verge of tears. Coalition victory is also seeing a suprising amount of use, and Nicol Bolas, planeswalker Has so far had the ability to make my enemies pretty much surrender if I can get his builder off twice.


Not quite sure on [c}groundskeeper[/c], I don't get to spam it as much as I would like, but my lands do have a tendency to wind up in my graveyard, and it makes for nice synergy with the blue part of Obelisk of alara.

However, The deck has also hit 66 cards, so wondering if there is some fat that could be trimmed. That is your next job! ;)



Creatures: 18(19)
Spells: 23
Lands: 25
Total: 66
Ok, a small update on what my current decklist is, and tomorrow I am off to give it a try in a legacy tournament.

Note that the sideboard was mainly dictated by the cards I have available, and I really need to get hold of some Evasive action and explore. Also thinking of getting an Emrakul, the aeons torn, both because he can be cheated into play with the archangels, but also since vs mill decks he functions like a flask of immortality.



thoughts?