Crackpot theories on why DDN will fail...

So I was at my local game store for a RPG session last night and I heard the most silly thing. 

To set the stage, there were eight of us gathering around the main table to play.  While everyone one was getting settled, I wondered over to a side table where one of our regulars was running two new kids through character creation with an old 3.5 book.  There was a new face there as well, a guy reading through one of the store's Pathfinder books.  I struck up a conversation with him about D&D and eventually, we turn to the play test.  That is when the conspiracy theory dial got cranked to crazy. 

According to him, he had not yet played the play test, but had heard stories about it from all over the internet.  Apparently, "that woman who owns D&D" was doing her level best to destroy it forever and this new 5th Edition was more than proof of how far things had gotten.  He and some friends were joining a consortium of sorts to buy the rights of D&D away from "that horrible lady" and Hasbro in order to save the game.  There had been actual violent protests out there on the amorphous thing that is the Internet (not like our casual brand of nascent bickering here), and there would someday come a D&D reckoning. 

Not quite struck speechless, I told him about my experiences with the play test and how it wasn't all doom and gloom (if you're a fan of 1st and 2nd Ed, then it's a decent game), but everything I said just seemed to fuel his fire.  In the end it was just safer to smile, nod, and back slowly away to my gaming group.  I even totally forgot to ask him who that "woman who owns D&D" was. 

Now, I know that so far I'm not a big fan of this iteration of the game, but if I ever get to that level of crazy, you guys have my permission to track me down and.....well, first rescue me from whatever gaming cabal that has stolen me away, but then, after we're all safe, talk some sense into me.  Okay?

Have any of you run into some beyond-the-pale crazy people over the course of this transition yet?  Got any good stories?

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

The Illuminati, of course!

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

The Illuminati, of course!

The Illuminati isn't a she.......or is it? Surprised

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

I think I heard about this kind of thing happening to the Cleveland Indians, but they were saved by Charlie Sheen when he got some prescription glasses. That was a true story, right?
Wow dude, that's all sorts of crazy.

Of course, the problem is in the second full paragraph. Specifically, ""he had not yet played the play test, but had heard stories about it from all over the internet."

'Cause everything you read on the Internet is true.

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Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

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The Illuminati, of course!



Illuminati?  Oh, please.  It's the colonists (greys) and more importantly...

This guy!

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE!

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!

So I was at my local game store for a RPG session last night and I heard the most silly thing. 

To set the stage, there were eight of us gathering around the main table to play.  While everyone one was getting settled, I wondered over to a side table where one of our regulars was running two new kids through character creation with an old 3.5 book.  There was a new face there as well, a guy reading through one of the store's Pathfinder books.  I struck up a conversation with him about D&D and eventually, we turn to the play test.  That is when the conspiracy theory dial got cranked to crazy. 

According to him, he had not yet played the play test, but had heard stories about it from all over the internet.  Apparently, "that woman who owns D&D" was doing her level best to destroy it forever and this new 5th Edition was more than proof of how far things had gotten.



"That lady" would have to be Lorraine Williams, who hasn't been involved in D&D since 1997!  Wow.  That's some messed up thinking.


He and some friends were joining a consortium of sorts to buy the rights of D&D away from "that horrible lady" and Hasbro in order to save the game.


I smell a Kickstarter campaign!

I smell a Kickstarter campaign!


Man now I'm going to have to spend the rest of the night digging through Kickstarter to see if that's actually a thing.....Thanks.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

You know, there's an arc similar to this playing out as a story arc in the Knights of the Dinner Table comic (the changes Gary Jackson's wife attempts to make to Hackmaster lead to an outright player revolt complete with an attempt to storm the company's offices).

Regardless there's some sort of confusion between fantasy and reality going on.

I agree that it will "fail"... but I think that will be for the same reason 4E has "failed"... i.e. Hasbro has completely unreasonable sales target numbers for the tabletop RPG market that NO role-playing game could ever meet.

Really they should just let D&D leech off Magic's profits and be done with it.  Keeping them two separate reporting entities is dumb.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

So I was at my local game store for a RPG session last night and I heard the most silly thing.  

To set the stage, there were eight of us gathering around the main table to play.  While everyone one was getting settled, I wondered over to a side table where one of our regulars was running two new kids through character creation with an old 3.5 book.  There was a new face there as well, a guy reading through one of the store's Pathfinder books.  I struck up a conversation with him about D&D and eventually, we turn to the play test.  That is when the conspiracy theory dial got cranked to crazy. 

According to him, he had not yet played the play test, but had heard stories about it from all over the internet.  Apparently, "that woman who owns D&D" was doing her level best to destroy it forever and this new 5th Edition was more than proof of how far things had gotten.



"That lady" would have to be Lorraine Williams, who hasn't been involved in D&D since 1997!  Wow.  That's some messed up thinking.



She was the first name I thought of as well. 
Well, he might mean Shelly Mazzanoble... her prose voice is certainly an aquired taste. ;)

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I don't see much of a need for crackpot theories about 5E's failure when there are some rather plausible theories:

1. Trying to please everybody results in a wishy-washy compromise of a game nobody really likes.
2. Trying to please everybody results in a patchwork frankenstein's monster of mismatched pieces, pleasing no one.
3. The game gets overwhelmingly rejected by one or more of D&D's existing factions resulting in 5E's failing to achieve its own sales goals.
4. The current design is so far behind schedule that it will end up rushed and released half-finished and mediocre.
5. Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.
6. More than one of the above.

I'm sure theres more than just these.
...whatever
Well, he might mean Shelly Mazzanoble... her prose voice is certainly an aquired taste. ;)


That's quite a conspiracy theory!

Really they should just let D&D leech off Magic's profits and be done with it.  Keeping them two separate reporting entities is dumb.



I know they don't want to dilute the M:tG IP too much, but god damn would I buy a halfway decent M:tG RPG game and/or setting.

Hell, even a really detailed "Guide to the Planes (of M:tG)" hardbound, D&D-book-sized, book.

... Now I need to go see if that exists.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
He and some friends were joining a consortium of sorts to buy the rights of D&D away from "that horrible lady" and Hasbro in order to save the game. 



If he donated any money to this "consortium", the fellow may be a victim of a fast-talking huxter.
Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.




Where is that confirmed?
He and some friends were joining a consortium of sorts to buy the rights of D&D away from "that horrible lady" and Hasbro in order to save the game. 



If he donated any money to this "consortium", the fellow may be a victim of a fast-talking huxter.


That's ridiculous.  I happen to know the consrtium was organized by a wealthy Nigerian prince.  Unfortunately, all his millios of dollars are curretnly tied up in escrow, but if you give him your account information, he will be scertain to wire you the funds within the next two weeks.  Just send your account information to this anonymous email account based in Bucharest...

That's ridiculous.  I happen to know the consrtium was organized by a wealthy Nigerian prince.  Unfortunately, all his millios of dollars are curretnly tied up in escrow, but if you give him your account information, he will be scertain to wire you the funds within the next two weeks.  Just send your account information to this anonymous email account based in Bucharest...


True story.  My grandfather is one of those kinna people who fell for the Nigerian Prince scam.  Honest to god.  To this day we tease him relentlessly about it.   He's also fallen for the 'collect call from prison' scam. *sigh*  He used to be the most financially smart man I ever knew.  Not sure what happened.   Old age, I suppose.



"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

... Now I need to go see if that exists.



It doesn't.



Well, I didn't mean a D&D product like that - I just mean a nice, large, hardcover "guide to the planes of M:tG" book.  Completely a M:tG product, with nothing to do with the game mechanics - just setting, "fluff", "flavor", and plot.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
... Now I need to go see if that exists.



It doesn't.



Well, I didn't mean a D&D product like that - I just mean a nice, large, hardcover "guide to the planes of M:tG" book.  Completely a M:tG product, with nothing to do with the game mechanics - just setting, "fluff", "flavor", and plot.



I still think that'd be a nice seller, and even a mostly-old-schooler like myself wouldn't find that objectionable in the slightest.  Like I intimated previously...I'd prolly buy it myself.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

... Now I need to go see if that exists.



It doesn't.

Because a certyin type of people go absolutely fricken ballistic if anything related to MtG touches D&D. And why? BECAUZE COLLEGTIBLE! URGH!

I've seen this first hand on the forums, more often than I care to remember. People going totally braindead within nano-seconds because anything related to collectibility could touch D&D, which would then immediately spell the end of all D&D and usher in an age of colelctible rules-text on cards. Radnomized naturally.

It's seriously amazing how fricken crazy people can get.


In all fairness, if they thought they could get away with distributing the rulebooks in the randomized collectible format that has worked so well for magic, they would try it.

Now I have no problem with MtG influencing D&D from a setting perspective, or MtG sets featuring D&D characters (Azalin or Strahd would make for some pretty cool MtG black planeswalkers), or even collectible D&D cardgames/minis, but collectibilty does not need to be integrated into PnP RPGs.  On that last point, I will fight tooth and nail.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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Save the breasts.

BECAUZE COLLEGTIBLE! URGH!



To be fair, that was largely because they introduced "cards" that came "randomly" in "packs" that you "drew" from a "deck" in a "random order" that affected your D&D game.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Mand12, your quote is messed up (I didn't say that).


But yeah, I understand the concerns with the randomized game products that they've experimented with.  Everything was always "optional" though, so the real thrust of the concern that I could strongly agree with was that, if "successful", the concept would bleed into D&D more strongly.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
BECAUZE COLLEGTIBLE! URGH!



To be fair, that was largely because they introduced "cards" that came "randomly" in "packs" that you "drew" from a "deck" in a "random order" that affected your D&D game.



I like the Fortune Cards. They're a relatively painless way for me to hand the owner/operator of my local FLGS a few bucks for providing organized play a place to play, despite the fact that most of us eschew books in favor of DDI.
I never bought or used Fortune Cards for my games.  It seemed silly to me and I'm a Magic player.

@mikemearls The office is basically empty this week, which opens up all sorts of possibilities for low shenanigans

@mikemearls In essence, all those arguments I lost are being unlost. Won, if you will. We're doing it MY way, baby.

@biotech66 aren't you the boss anyway? isn't "DO IT OR I FIRE YOU!" still an option?

@mikemearls I think Perkins would throat punch me if I ever tried that. And I'd give him a glowing quarterly review for it.

Wow.... Just ..... Yeah.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.




Where is that confirmed?



Never said it was confirmed, just said it was a theory, one I've seen posted by multiple people and not completely far-fetched.
...whatever
Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.




Where is that confirmed?



Never said it was confirmed, just said it was a theory, one I've seen posted by multiple people and not completely far-fetched.



You mean one person pulled it out of their ass, other people picked it up due to confirmation bias, and now you tote it around as a truth despite not having any evidence for it whatsoever?



@Frito:  Dammit.  I knew I probably pulled out the wrong quote tag.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.




Where is that confirmed?



Never said it was confirmed, just said it was a theory, one I've seen posted by multiple people and not completely far-fetched.



You mean one person pulled it out of their ass, other people picked it up due to confirmation bias, and now you tote it around as a truth despite not having any evidence for it whatsoever?



@Frito:  Dammit.  I knew I probably pulled out the wrong quote tag.



Nice with the accusations. I was just posting 5E failure theories I've heard here and there. For the record, that particular one isn't one I agree with. I'm expecting 5E to fail either for being a wishy-washy compromise nobody likes or alienating one or more factions.
...whatever
I have a crazy theory of my own.  Goes like this:

Move D&D HQ to Geneva WI.  This will make D&D better.

Surprised

All the designers are following me.

EDIT:  I was thinking about a recent convo I had with my local game shop owner, and well, he had some thoughts about 4E and 5E that I care not share.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

Well, he might mean Shelly Mazzanoble... her prose voice is certainly an aquired taste. ;)


That's quite a conspiracy theory!


Now, guys, this a pretty weak conspiracy theory.  Let me help.

In 1997, Lorraine Williams lost control of D&D...or so we were led to believe.  In truth, she stayed behind the scenes, running D&D into the ground for years.  In time, it was noticed that there was a woman in the D&D offices, so she came back into the public eye under an assumed identity...Shelly Mazzanoble.  As "Shelly" she pretends to be a mild-mannered columnist, but in truth, she has her finger right on D&D's pulse...waiting for the right moment to snuff it out.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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Hasbro has set corporate goals for D&D which are beyond the ability of the brand to achieve, no matter how successful 5E is.




Where is that confirmed?


it has some precedence with Ryan Dancy

www.enworld.org/forum/news/315975-wizard...

This came back to haunt Wizards when Hasbro's new Core/Non-Core strategy came into focus. Instead of being able to say "We're a $100+ million brand, keep funding us as we desire", each of the business units inside Wizards had to make that case separately. So the first thing that happened was the contraction you saw when Wizards dropped new game development and became the "D&D and Magic" company. Magic has no problem hitting the "Core" brand bar, but D&D does. It's really a $25-30 million business, especially since Wizards isn't given credit for the licensing revenue of the D&D computer games.

 
3rd ed SRD, character sheets, errata & free modules 4th ed test drive - modules, starter rules, premade characters and character builder & character sheet, errata Free maps and portraits, dice, printable graph paper, campaign managing website, image manipulation program + token maker & zone markers

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Well, he might mean Shelly Mazzanoble... her prose voice is certainly an aquired taste. ;)


That's quite a conspiracy theory!


Now, guys, this a pretty weak conspiracy theory.  Let me help.

In 1997, Lorraine Williams lost control of D&D...or so we were led to believe.  In truth, she stayed behind the scenes, running D&D into the ground for years.  In time, it was noticed that there was a woman in the D&D offices, so she came back into the public eye under an assumed identity...Shelly Mazzanoble.  As "Shelly" she pretends to be a mild-mannered columnist, but in truth, she has her finger right on D&D's pulse...waiting for the right moment to snuff it out.


OMG!  Someone warn Bart Carroll.  He's sleeping with the enemy!!
Unless Bart is working with her...and also secretly is Kevin Siembieda!
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
I was thinking about a recent convo I had with my local game shop owner, and well, he had some thoughts about 4E and 5E that I care not share.



I'm really happy for you. And glad you mentioned it.
Forum stalked!  Ahhhh!

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I think the closest they will go in making D&D collectible is how they handled the minis.  I didn't terribly hate it, but I really wished I could just buy packs of zombies and orcs rather than having to piece them together through trades and ebay.

As for the opening post, yeah, our hobby tends to draw the crazies at times.  Especially when you meet them at the game shop.

I'd trade it all for a little more! Grognard? Is that French for awesome?

I wish they still sold the nice lead *cough* I mean pewter! minis.  I remember the old 10-boxes of dwarven crossbowmen, for instance. 

I have a nice one of the Pathfinder Oracle iconic, Alahazra, that I use when I need a mini.  But the other 'official' WotC ones I have are this chintzy plastic.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

I'm a big grid/minis user.

I've got kids.

The chintzy plastic is awesome.

It weighs practically nothing and it doesn't have to be painted.

That stuff is solidly in the "good enough" column.

When I DM a new campaign, I gift my players pewter minis of their characters (even do pewter surgery if needed) all painted up.

Still love the plastics though. I even use hero quest minis for my goblin Orc and undead hordes.
I'm a big grid/minis user. I've got kids. The chintzy plastic is awesome. It weighs practically nothing and it doesn't have to be painted. That stuff is solidly in the "good enough" column. When I DM a new campaign, I gift my players pewter minis of their characters (even do pewter surgery if needed) all painted up. Still love the plastics though. I even use hero quest minis for my goblin Orc and undead hordes.



See, I liked it 'enough' at first.  Until I got some skellies, right?  Well, they were folded up in the box when I bought them (ie, I didn't know it cuz it was a sealed box and all) and so they're useless.  No amount of pressing, unfolding, etc will make their legs stand straight again.  They literally lay straight forward at the ankles, 90 degrees to the base.  That was what turned me off of them.  Conversely, my all-metal (tiny) Eldar army hasn't ever had a single problem in shipping because of how they were packaged.

Maybe I'm just unlucky.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

Boil, re-position, freeze
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