Wicth's brew...some help and advice welcome.

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Here's what I got so far,feel free to add whatever you think is,fun and helpful. I still get a lvl 12 and 11 and 2 lvl 10 items plus I need 3 more feats but Ill be damned if I got anything lol. The idea was to be like a succubus and control the people a tad so...feel free to help out.


Lilliandrea Alexandrea, level 11
Hamadryad, Wizard (Witch), Legendary Witch
Unseelie Agent Starting Feature Option: Dagger
Moon Coven Option: Dark Moon Coven
Early Life - Test Subject (+2 to Arcana)
Theme: Unseelie Agent
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 11, DEX 11, INT 23, WIS 18, CHA 12
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 10, INT 18, WIS 13, CHA 11
 
 
AC: 21 Fort: 15 Ref: 21 Will: 21
HP: 61 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 15
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +20, Diplomacy +13, Insight +14, Intimidate +15, Nature +16
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Athletics +5, Bluff +6, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +5, Heal +9, History +11, Perception +9, Religion +11, Stealth +7, Streetwise +6, Thievery +5
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Unseelie Agent Utility: Create Shadow-Wrought Weapon
Hamadryad Utility: Hamadryad Aspects
Wizard Utility: Augury
Wizard Utility: Water Stride
Wizard Utility: Chameleon's Mask
Wizard Utility: Mage Hand
Wizard Attack 1: Dread Presence
Wizard Attack 1: Witch Bolt
Wizard Attack 1: Hypnotism
Wizard Attack 1: Charm of Forbiddance
Wizard Utility 2: Instant Friends
Unseelie Agent Attack 3: Cold Shadow Strike
Unseelie Agent Attack 5: Unleash Corruption
Unseelie Agent Utility 6: Shadow Cloak
Wizard Attack 7: Thunder Cage
Wizard Attack 9: Hex of Madness
Wizard Utility 10: Mirror Image
Legendary Witch Attack 11: Terror of the Dark Moon
 
FEATS
Arcane Familiar
Level 1: Beguiling Enchantment
Level 2: Clever Control
Level 4: Improved Initiative
Level 6: Burning Blizzard
 
ITEMS

====== End ======
Tihs Bilud is rlleay bad. Wicth is a bad casls. You souhld laren mroe aotub opmitziaoin frist. Or raed the hoodabkns.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Yeah. You should learn not to type so poorly and have a little respect for others but you don't see us complaining =) As for it being bad,It's not supost to be good lol. If I wanted a all around striker or controller I'd play a different class I wanted to do something different unlike you whos just coping and pasting the stapple builds and messing with 1 or 2 things. The realy sad part is you post helpful stuff on this site,yet you bash the people that look for some help. Yeah.......just shameful

Note no one really helped you. Theres a reason for that. You can mock me all you want, but I help those who ask for it, not demand for it and respect. This isn't a different build. Mine are. Move on buddy, save yourself the trouble.

10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
No trouble at all,and if the character creator makes it,its a build sorry to tell you. As for people that get help that ask for it....I sure didn't any answers I asked about. You make quote real builds, umm try you take other peoples builds and make minor and slight changes to make them a tad better and think you made the whole thing. For Instance your Bookish Barb you have posted seen that before,like 100 times.
You can insult me all you bud, but facts are facts, I did things with that build that no one else had posted. There's a reason you got no answers, and you're getting mighty defensive. It's probably best to head back to the drawing board instead of insulting people on baseless grounds.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I suggest getting an expertise feat for your implement of choice and a implement proficiency feat for the accurate version of your implement of choice.

Edit: and replace Clever Control with implement focus with the implement of your choice. Clever Control is not as clever as it sounds :P 

I suggest getting an expertise feat for your implement of choice and a implement proficiency feat for the accurate version of your implement of choice.

Edit: and replace Clever Control with implement focus with the implement of your choice. Clever Control is not as clever as it sounds :P 



Clever girl ;) I see what you did there
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
You do realize that this character has no use for the dagger beyond your unseelie agent powers, right? With an 11 strength in paragon you will *never* be hitting with MBAs, and wizards don't get any melee attacks. Maybe if you MCed Sorcerer or took AIP? But that's still a bad idea.

Your best bet is to have something you can use as an implement be your shadow-wrought weapon (not sure if it can make implements, if not, a quaterstaff still works as one). Then drop the melee powers (assuming the unseelie agent stuff is melee) and stay at range, like your AC says you should.

Zelink is right about witch being a bad class, perhaps a mage with the enchantment school fluffed as a witch would work better for you?
Witch is pretty good if you want those class features like the free familiar until about level 7, but really falls behind most of the other wizard options in paragon.  And legendary witch doesn't have that much going for it.

And I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but burning blizard should be swapped out for implement focus.  And a superior implement of some sort would be useful as well.  Also retrain improved intiative for a feat like Battlewise when you hit 11.  And I would dump the 2 points you put into dex or str and the 1 point in charisma and put them all in con or wis.
I've got to agree with the others - the witch is basically the worst type of wizard.  You can be a mage or arcanist, take all the same powers, and have better features.

Don't pick Witch just because you want to be a witch.  That's just fluff.  If you're interested in optimizing your character, use an optimal build and refluff as necessary.  Hell, I personally think warlocks make much better witches.  If you're interested in refluffing the Witch build in particular... you pretty much just take whatever powers any wizard would take and hope your DM caters to unpredictable features like Augury.

As for your complaints about charop characters all being the same... well, that's pretty much what charop is.  We take features that synergize with each other and mix and match them.  There are a limited number of exploits, and the best ones turn up a lot.  Sometimes a new class comes along with a feature that creates opportunities for a new type of exploit, but witch is not one of those.  Some of the powers it came with are interesting, but there's really nothing exploitable that is unique to the witch (other builds can use their powers to better effect).  There are certainly other (and equally valid) forums that might take more kindly to a witch build, but there's not really a place for it in charop.
I've got to agree with the others - the witch is basically the worst type of wizard.  You can be a mage or arcanist, take all the same powers, and have better features.



The witch is not the worst kind of wizard. The Witch can pick new and interesting daily powers every single day. And if the DM allows Augury to function, pick the daily power on that basis. There are games where Augury is absolutely worthless, true, but...there are more than enough Sky Blue and Dark Blue Daily powers that you could likely spend most of a campaign picking out a new choice every day to see how it works.

If I were going to play a Wizard from 1-30 where retraining is as per PHB as my weekly game choice, I'd pick Witch over the other choices simply because of that. If I were playing 12-30 where I could get rid of the 1st level Witch Encounter options in 1 level? Wouldn't even blink.

As for the build:
I wouldn't take Legendary Witch. No 16th level ability if for no other reason.
Battlewise+Improved Initiative should make it onto your list.
Superior Reflexes for auto-CA on round 1 is very useful.
Get an expertise feat - Staff Expertise is great. Orb Expertise can be useful if you have some way to typically avoid provoking. Superior Implement for accuracy is strong. Controllers are all about hitting and losing a +3 is going to hurt.
Unarmored Agility or Leather armor is very helpful to avoid getting killed. Improved Defenses or Superior Will, too.
Illusory Wall is a very powerful level 10 utility.
Would not pick Unseelie choices over Wizard ones - you're a Wizard for the powers. Don't give up the powers.
Both your at-wills are single target and Witch Bolt is on the lousy side - it is just damage and not real control given you lose your action to sustain it. I'd swap it out for some kind of area at-will.
I just lost most of my Op respect for this. This...is just wrong.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I just don't think Augury is something you can count on, and I've used the Spellbook feature all of zero times ever.  Having a rotating portfolio of spells also means that spending resources on supporting particular powers (like psychic or cold) will often be wasted, or you'll have to stick to more generic options.

Even if the DM tries to work with Augury, he might not know what sort of information you need to make an educated desicion. "You'll be fighting orcs" doesn't narrow down spell choices a whole lot.

To each his own, I guess.  But I'd maintain that the Mage schools or even Arcanist implement specialties are going to be not only more reliable, but just all around better in the long run.
I just don't think Augury is something you can count on, and I've used the Spellbook feature all of zero times ever.  Having a rotating portfolio of spells also means that spending resources on supporting particular powers (like psychic or cold) will often be wasted, or you'll have to stick to more generic options.

Even if the DM tries to work with Augury, he might not know what sort of information you need to make an educated desicion. "You'll be fighting orcs" doesn't narrow down spell choices a whole lot.

To each his own, I guess.  But I'd maintain that the Mage schools or even Arcanist implement specialties are going to be not only more reliable, but just all around better in the long run.


This is pretty much my opinion of the Witch as well. Any feature so heavily reliant on DM fiat and co-operation is something of a waste, and the ability to change spells is somewhat moot - once you find a few that truely work for you, or you have the support for, you'll stick to them.

It's not as bad a deal as the Binder gets, and the Witch is still decent by virtue of being a Wizard and having its power list, but it is the worst of the Wizard builds. Admittedly, not by much compared to the Sha'ir, but still.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
If your char idea is to be "succubus like", I imagine lots of domination and pseudo-domination. In that case, take a CHAlock, and use the plentiful powers that force the enemies to attack each other and themselves. Refluff as wanted.
I just don't think Augury is something you can count on, and I've used the Spellbook feature all of zero times ever.  Having a rotating portfolio of spells also means that spending resources on supporting particular powers (like psychic or cold) will often be wasted, or you'll have to stick to more generic options.

Even if the DM tries to work with Augury, he might not know what sort of information you need to make an educated desicion. "You'll be fighting orcs" doesn't narrow down spell choices a whole lot.



"Will we encounter X immune or resistant creatures today?"(where X is the keyword of a spell you're considering)

There's an obvious yes/no answer there and if the answer is not no, then you can avoid choosing spells that affect X. Just think about that when picking from the 5 possible Sky Blue controller Dailies at 9th level each day.

To each his own, I guess.  But I'd maintain that the Mage schools or even Arcanist implement specialties are going to be not only more reliable, but just all around better in the long run.



Except exactly how much better? The real power for Wizards is that they get to pick Wizard options. 20 Int? Sky Blue power choices mostly? Init optimization routes? Picked Expertise, Superior Implement, and a CA generating option? Took some defensive feats? Enlarge Spell? Figured out how to not provoke?

Do all that and the Witch will be just as much of a top-tier controller as any other Wizard build. If the Witch has a real problem, it is that it is usually a way to identify someone who is playing a Wizard and at the same time, not interested in optimizing. Which is potentially trouble.
Wouldn't a tiefling invoker be much a much better dominate chassis than a build whose class feature is totally at the mercy of the DM?

Note no one really helped you. Theres a reason for that. You can mock me all you want, but I help those who ask for it, not demand for it and respect. This isn't a different build. Mine are. Move on buddy, save yourself the trouble.



He didn't demand help. He provided a build and the overall theme he wants to go with. Then he said we could feel free to help.

He also didn't demand respect, but rather said that you should have a little respect for other people, since he was put off by the useless nature and mocking tone of your post.

Since your motives are clearly not what you think they are here, take a moment to think about who you really help and respond to politely on this board.

And people do not need to learn about optimization before making a build and posting it here asking for help. That's what the regulars are here for. The helpful ones anyways.

Next time, just save yourself the trouble and move along before posting. You may think that someone playing a witch deserves nothing more than your scorn and mockery, but obviously better, more insightful and helpful regulars like MWAO disagree and are willing to provide the function this board is here for. So let them do it without being offensive and alienating anyone. This will prevent you from having to turn around and project your own actions onto your victim in the future.

;)

Note no one really helped you. Theres a reason for that. You can mock me all you want, but I help those who ask for it, not demand for it and respect. This isn't a different build. Mine are. Move on buddy, save yourself the trouble.



He didn't demand help. He provided a build and the overall theme he wants to go with. Then he said we could feel free to help.

He also didn't demand respect, but rather said that you should have a little respect for other people, since he was put off by the useless nature and mocking tone of your post.

Since your motives are clearly not what you think they are here, take a moment to think about who you really help and respond to politely on this board.

And people do not need to learn about optimization before making a build and posting it here asking for help. That's what the regulars are here for. The helpful ones anyways.

Next time, just save yourself the trouble and move along before posting. You may think that someone playing a witch deserves nothing more than your scorn and mockery, but obviously better, more insightful and helpful regulars like MWAO disagree and are willing to provide the function this board is here for. So let them do it without being offensive and alienating anyone. This will prevent you from having to turn around and project your own actions onto your victim in the future.

;)



You clearly missed his other threads, which were offensive and trolling, and his posts got edited. I wasn't mocking playing a witch, but someone who was rude and aggressive. But frankly, I don't need a lesson from you, because you seem to come into threads as an ultimate arbiter on morality, and frankly, you're not.

As for MWAO, he is straight up wrong. The Witch is strictly inferior to a wizard or a mage. Don't ask me, ask the man who authored the Wizard Handbook, or the woman who wrote it before him, or Zathris, or erachima, or the dozens of people who know the game better than I.  So yes, the Witch sucks. 

10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

Note no one really helped you. Theres a reason for that. You can mock me all you want, but I help those who ask for it, not demand for it and respect. This isn't a different build. Mine are. Move on buddy, save yourself the trouble.



He didn't demand help. He provided a build and the overall theme he wants to go with. Then he said we could feel free to help.

He also didn't demand respect, but rather said that you should have a little respect for other people, since he was put off by the useless nature and mocking tone of your post.

Since your motives are clearly not what you think they are here, take a moment to think about who you really help and respond to politely on this board.

And people do not need to learn about optimization before making a build and posting it here asking for help. That's what the regulars are here for. The helpful ones anyways.

Next time, just save yourself the trouble and move along before posting. You may think that someone playing a witch deserves nothing more than your scorn and mockery, but obviously better, more insightful and helpful regulars like MWAO disagree and are willing to provide the function this board is here for. So let them do it without being offensive and alienating anyone. This will prevent you from having to turn around and project your own actions onto your victim in the future.

;)



You clearly missed his other threads, which were offensive and trolling, and his posts got edited. I wasn't mocking playing a witch, but someone who was rude and aggressive. But frankly, I don't need a lesson from you, because you seem to come into threads as an ultimate arbiter on morality, and frankly, you're not.

As for MWAO, he is straight up wrong. The Witch is strictly inferior to a wizard or a mage. Don't ask me, ask the man who authored the Wizard Handbook, or the woman who wrote it before him, or Zathris, or erachima, or the dozens of people who know the game better than I.  So yes, the Witch sucks. 





ITT the only rude and aggressive person was you sadly. That the witch is bad does not mean that it cannot be optimized. Heck we have optimized both vampires and binders in this forum, and the witch certainly blows those two straight out of the water.

You can't really call the Witch awful in an absolute sense. They still get Wizard spells. But in a relative sense, there is no reason to play a Witch. At all. Mage, Arcanist, etc., are so far better that it is kind of silly.

And I can confirm that both Naus and RF agree with me on that, fwiw (former and current Wizard handbook authors). 
"Will we encounter X immune or resistant creatures today?"(where X is the keyword of a spell you're considering)

There's an obvious yes/no answer there and if the answer is not no, then you can avoid choosing spells that affect X. Just think about that when picking from the 5 possible Sky Blue controller Dailies at 9th level each day.



"You ask a question and receive a vague notion of the future. You might receive a clue as to whether a specific course of action is likely to have positive or negative results. This notion can take the form of a single image, a hint about a danger that might be faced, or just a positive or negative feeling about the current course of destiny."

Nothing about that requires a Yes/No answer, especially to such a direct, and perceivably meta-gamey question, which some DMs will sour to. You really are overrating Augury.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
As Alcestis said, its strictly inferior. Similarly, theres no reason to play a binder when a Warlock exists. And who was or wasn't rude at this point is irrelevent. I defended myself and now I'm done. But I refuse to admit the Witch isn't strictly inferior. Sure, its better than a sentinel,the binder, an infernal hexblade, a vampire, etc., but thats not props to the witch, thats a sad testimony on those classes.

I disagree a lot with Alcestis, but he's right, theres no reason to play a witch. You want fluff? Play a warlock. You want a Witchy Wizard? Refluff a Wizard, you're strictly better. 
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
So the first thing OP should do if he wants an optimal build (and this is the charop forum) is change from witch, to some other kind of wizard. Unless, for some strange reason, OP is in love with the witches mechanics. This build seems more for fun than anything else, so that's a possibilty and witches can be optimized around.

If he just likes the flavor, play something else and refluff. Now we just have to wait for him to show back up and weigh in...
He was a troll, and hasn't shown up since a lot of his posts (a lot against me), were ORCd. But it was good times regardless
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Dont forget to Refluff a Tiefling too
Sapphire - Swormage Dragon Guardian - Dont touch my allies build. Swordmage / Sigil Carver / Draconic incarnation The Holy Slayer - A Striker - Defender Fighter | Cleric / Barbarian - Paragon of Victory WEREBEAR BATTLEMIND: You wont go where you want. - A Battlemind (Druid) / Unbound Nomad / Topaz Crusader
And a goliath barbarian. Its also a great character. Just refluff.


Note no one really helped you. Theres a reason for that. You can mock me all you want, but I help those who ask for it, not demand for it and respect. This isn't a different build. Mine are. Move on buddy, save yourself the trouble.



He didn't demand help. He provided a build and the overall theme he wants to go with. Then he said we could feel free to help.

He also didn't demand respect, but rather said that you should have a little respect for other people, since he was put off by the useless nature and mocking tone of your post.

Since your motives are clearly not what you think they are here, take a moment to think about who you really help and respond to politely on this board.

And people do not need to learn about optimization before making a build and posting it here asking for help. That's what the regulars are here for. The helpful ones anyways.

Next time, just save yourself the trouble and move along before posting. You may think that someone playing a witch deserves nothing more than your scorn and mockery, but obviously better, more insightful and helpful regulars like MWAO disagree and are willing to provide the function this board is here for. So let them do it without being offensive and alienating anyone. This will prevent you from having to turn around and project your own actions onto your victim in the future.

;)



You clearly missed his other threads, which were offensive and trolling, and his posts got edited. I wasn't mocking playing a witch, but someone who was rude and aggressive. But frankly, I don't need a lesson from you, because you seem to come into threads as an ultimate arbiter on morality, and frankly, you're not.

As for MWAO, he is straight up wrong. The Witch is strictly inferior to a wizard or a mage. Don't ask me, ask the man who authored the Wizard Handbook, or the woman who wrote it before him, or Zathris, or erachima, or the dozens of people who know the game better than I.  So yes, the Witch sucks. 




I'd like to point out, that Zelink551 post the first bad comment,which could have just been not typed and he could have just said nothing and moved along. After that he also posted the same type of response on another build I posted which might I add,for bing so bad it has alot of posters helping out.  I did yes start to bash his threads ONLY after he did it to mine. Any eye for an eye

"Will we encounter X immune or resistant creatures today?"(where X is the keyword of a spell you're considering)

There's an obvious yes/no answer there and if the answer is not no, then you can avoid choosing spells that affect X. Just think about that when picking from the 5 possible Sky Blue controller Dailies at 9th level each day.



"You ask a question and receive a vague notion of the future. You might receive a clue as to whether a specific course of action is likely to have positive or negative results. This notion can take the form of a single image, a hint about a danger that might be faced, or just a positive or negative feeling about the current course of destiny."

Nothing about that requires a Yes/No answer, especially to such a direct, and perceivably meta-gamey question, which some DMs will sour to. You really are overrating Augury.



Augury is a meta-game type of spell. You're foreseeing the future as to whether or not having a Fear-based spell(as an example) is a good idea given whether or not you're facing monsters immune to fear.

As I said, if they don't answer No or give some sort of useful answer, you pick spells that aren't subject to X immunity.

I'm not overrating Augury. I realize that some DMs will go out of their way to make it completely useless, some will make it some sort of vivid image, and some will be willing to give positive/negative results as the power suggests. And I'm fine with either of the last two.

Let me be clear - if Augury has absolutely zero mechanical impact because the DM is that kind of DM, I would still pick Witch over the other choices because I like to constantly retrain my choices in an LFR environment and in the game I'm talking about, that kind of retraining can't happen. And using new Sky Blue choices every day mixes things up and makes things unexpected - and isn't going to be bad in 99% of the games out there.

Part of practical optimization is having fun at the table, both for you and the other members of the table. Witch gives me a lot more control to make that happen in a by the book campaign.
Which is fine for you, but at that point you have basicly no class features, which can make those same spells much more effective. If retraining powers is really an issue, you can always just ask the DM if you can change them. Not to mention that there aren't THAT many sky blue Wizard powers other than at D9. You may favour it, but that doesn't change its total mechanical inferiority.

I'm going to just agree to disagree with you, as we have argued this before and won't see eye to eye on it, so let's just stop before we start getting uncivil to eachother.
A Beginners Primer to CharOp. Archmage's Ascension - The Wizard's Handbook. Let the Hammer Fall: Dwarf Warpriest/Tactical Warpriest/Indomitable Champion, a Defending Leader. Requiem for Dissent: Cleric/Fighter/Paragon of Victory Melee Leader Ko te manu e kai i te miro, nona te ngahere. Ko te manu e kai i te matauranga e, nano te ao katoa. It's the proliferation of people who think the rules are more important than what the rules are meant to accomplish. - Dedekine
I would have thought perhaps the opposite of Mommy where the Witch, while not as OP as other stripes of Wizard, would be MORE useful in an ongoing home game with one DM and a group that plays together all the time. It would be way easier to fully utilize the features with the help of a DM you know and a party you know. I was under the impression that LFR was more of an unsure thing when it came to who you'll be at the table with so less likely to be on the same page with all involved.

edit: not better than just easier to use if that makes sense. 
Did anybody notice that OP's response to this thread only addressed zelink's comments and conpletely ignored the actual optimization advice that had been suggested?

OP, if you could tell us about why you like the witch whenever you come on next that would be great. As well as give input on the suggestions of people who are trying to help you.
Salmon, probably best to cut your losses Though your eagerness to help is great, help others!
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I would have thought perhaps the opposite of Mommy where the Witch, while not as OP as other stripes of Wizard, would be MORE useful in an ongoing home game with one DM and a group that plays together all the time. It would be way easier to fully utilize the features with the help of a DM you know and a party you know. I was under the impression that LFR was more of an unsure thing when it came to who you'll be at the table with so less likely to be on the same page with all involved.



That's actually what I'm saying - I think Witch is ideal for the middle-of-the-road, 1 DM, ongoing home game from 1-30, where retraining and feat taxes are by the book. If a player from CharOp can't make a Witch function at roughly the same level of mechanical strength as a Wizard in that environment, they need to lose their CharOp badge.

Personally, I find it really difficult to pick all the Wizard feats I want - I'm usually up to high paragon before I get open feat slots. So while Wizard(Arcanist) and Wizard(Mage) might get features I'd like, I also get a feature I'd likely not get unless I got a familiar for free. And there are a number of familiars with effects similar in strength to that of Arcanist - Chaos Shard as an example for a free extra target each encounter for the use of the big Daily or Encounter power.

Feats: Expertise, Superior Implement, +2 to AC feat, Superior Reflexes, Superior Will, + to damage feat, Psychic Lock, Improved Initiative, Battlewise, Enlarge Spell, Spell Focus, Reserve Maneuver(3 sky blue level 7 powers) - that's 11-12 feats that I'm likely to take before I get into any useful racial feats - and by that time, I'm near Epic.

Sure the Wizard(Mage or Arcanist) can take Arcane Familiar. But that means the Witch is one up that list in terms of feats.
What wizard takes focus AND psychic lock AND enlarge?
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The kind that thinks Unarmored Agility is a waste of a feat and never really saw the point in Battlewise when you need 13's just about everywhere for the feats you want (Con, Dex, Wis, and Cha), especially when you're racially getting a Dex or Init bump and roll twice for Init anyway.

So basically, me?
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What wizard takes focus AND psychic lock AND enlarge?



Most illusionists Id wager.

I'd take Familiar before Focus, personally.
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i.e. no one is going to seriously argue that my feat list doesn't have at least 8-9 must have feats for almost all Wizards. And we're not even into build-specific choices or racial options which everyone knows those Wizards have to have. MC'ing for Divine Oracle or Lifesinger. MC'ing into Druid so as to get Serpent's Cunning. Picking up the 2nd or 3rd feat of your specialty.

And Chaos Shard is roughly comparable to the Wizard(Arcanist) features - +2 to Arcana, +2 to saves vs. Dominated, and once per encounter, you get to attack someone else who is within 5 squares of your active Chaos Shard with your favorite area or close Wizard spell.

Yes, the Witch has a feat that everyone can take. But just try to shove it into your build without giving up something else.
What about magic items?  Are there also enough generic ones to stay competitive with wizards who focus on specific damage types or status effects?

I accept that flexibility has advantages, ones that are probably undervalued pretty often here in CharOp, but I agree with RF that expecting to get reliable, what-power-should-I-take info from Augury would require an extremely charitable DM.  If Augury were intended to be used that way, I think they would have worded it differently.