Grave Titan

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Resistant to conscripts and even decent against spot removal... time for a comeback?

And yes I burned my 5000th post on this.

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He needs a good home though. MBC isn't as great as I'd like it to be right now. Grixis might be good.

(at)MrEnglish22

MBC is fine.

The problem is everyone is all over the place on what they think is the hot build. Trading Post and Aggro builds abound. They're not that great. 

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Resistant to conscripts and even decent against spot removal... time for a comeback? And yes I burned my 5000th post on this.



Been playtesting my reanimator lately.  Originally I was sketching it out to have 3 Griselbrand in the main  (Other fatties include Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight), however I'm actually enjoying the 1 Griselbrand/2 Grave Titan split I think I've settled on, partly for the reason you mentioned.  I didn't want every single creature I could put out to immediately kill me if my opponent dropped a Zealous Conscripts.

He's also really good against a lot of the aggro/pod decks since he can create such a board stall.
He needs a good home though. MBC isn't as great as I'd like it to be right now. Grixis might be good.



I ran 2 plus a Sphinx in a Grixis build. It seemed pretty good.

I agree, Grave Titan seems underrated right now. He also passes the Vsnag test of course.
I have him in RWB Control/Reanimator as well.

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i have been rocking some BUG contol on modo for the last week and i have grave ****.  always been a fan of grave ****.

yes, green is basically for thragtusk.... 

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

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i have been rocking some BUG contol on modo for the last week and i have grave ****.  always been a fan of grave ****.

yes, green is basically for thragtusk.... 



Friend of mine is running 5-colour durdle.dec, with the green being Abundant Growth and Thragtusk. It really peeves me that it has such a weak colour requirement. 

(at)MrEnglish22

B_F, the Chapin BUG Vengeance decks are pretty solid.  Been noodling with similar ones to pretty broad success.  Thragtusk is such a nuts control card.  Against Naya or whatever, it's hysterical to play Thragtusk, Image it, and pass.  Take another round of beats into your 10-cushioned life, untap and swing, they take, then you Vengeance them.  Game 2 they play terrified of what the unholy hell you might do.  Good things.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
B_F, the Chapin BUG Vengeance decks are pretty solid.  Been noodling with similar ones to pretty broad success.  Thragtusk is such a nuts control card.  Against Naya or whatever, it's hysterical to play Thragtusk, Image it, and pass.  Take another round of beats into your 10-cushioned life, untap and swing, they take, then you Vengeance them.  Game 2 they play terrified of what the unholy hell you might do.  Good things.


The concept sounds super interesting, but I couldn't find the build (or builds claiming to be related) on the internet. Would you mind sharing a bit of the shell?
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The list was from Chapin's recent SCG article.  The basic idea of the build is playing control powered by value creatures, i.e. Snaps, Augur of Bolas, a couple Solemn, Thragtusk, supported by mild splashes of permission/card draw/removal via haphazard splits of Leaks, Ponders, GftT, BSZ.  It essentially finishes with Vengeance after some creature beats.

List:
Show

4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur
1 Image
2 Solemn
4 Thragtusk

4 Ponder
2 Thought Scour
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Divination
1 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Mana Leak
2 Go for the Throat
1 Gut Shot
2 Vapor Snag
2 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Crushing Vines
2 Sorin's Vengeance

4 Darkslick Shores
4 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Evolving Wilds
5 Island
3 Swamp
1 Forest


It's definitely a wonky as hell deck, and I kinda love it.  From Chapin, the man (now hall of famer, cheers) who brews control in every standard, I'll attest a deck of this type can be pretty functional.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Thragtusk is the new stoneforge mystic.  You cram it into any deck, and it instantly becomes better.  I wanna run bant thragtusk + dryad delver.



3 Thragtusk
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage

4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Mana Leak

Thats about as far as I'm taking that. I need sleep. 

(at)MrEnglish22

The Chapin deck is very good.  I've also been playing around with it the last few days.  With Augur, Ponder, and Snapcaster, it's almost like you're running 10-11 ponders instead of 4.  The shuffle effects off of Wilds and well played Thought Scours gives this deck quite the powerful engine, and let you run more business instead of lands.  Hell, Augur is virtually another shuffle effect after a ponder anyway.  I think we want to dedicate a large portion of the board to ramp as that's the only deck that seems to give this much trouble.  We are in U/B so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. 

I also really liked the Rock deck he posted in that same article.  First time in years I played a Rock deck that wasn't just terribad.
my list is fairly similar, although it mirrors more traditional UB control rather than that skewing like he has.  I refuse to run vapor snag in anything other than a deck with delver.  there are better removal options.  even though people are playing dismember again, i still think its pretty underrated.  it really does kill most of the relevant threats played.  of course, being in black, you can also play some terrors, but dismember is good to run, especially in black decks.  and i'm not really sold on the sorin vengeance plan, it seems like grave titan might still be better, but that's a hard one to say for sure (vengeance is just so slow and i hate the idea of having to run ramp to make it passable).

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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I wouldn't exactly call 2 Solemns ramp.  They're just there for value/blocking, and yeah, making sure you can hit triple black.  Snag is honestly reasonable in there.  With Thragtusks, you really have a decent ability to clock in for a chunk of damage, but then I agree the Snags could just as easily be Dismembers.  Vengeance isn't a bad finisher option because it lets you worry so much less about the board, and in that respect it's actually faster.  It's softer to decks like Delver, certainly, but then they don't have all that much board presence to begin with, so Gravey in the board against them seems really good.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
One-of Vengance is really good, as it provides power but you aren't trying to win with just it.

(at)MrEnglish22

One-of Vengance is really good, as it provides power but you aren't trying to win with just it.



One-of Vengeance seems pretty great in a deck with Snapcasters (and Thragtusks).
I mean, even as a two-of.  You're still not trying to win with only Vengeance with two, it's just that it actually shows up more regularly by the time it would be convenient.  Control decks can definitely play lots of value creatures, but eventually they still need to just win since they're not keeping up with aggro beats forever.  Snapping for it comes up, but from when I tested it in BUG, it usually only took one shot with one to end the game.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
What is this article by chapin? I dont know where to look and google wasnt kind.

The RWB archetype I made is probably the best place for it, since you can get it back over and over once you lose it. Shame Gerry T tried to take credit for my list though
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Cyrus, I read the blog you did about it.  Gerry can shove off and stick to his Goryo's Vengeance modern shenanigans, ha.

MissingTheTrigger, the article is from SCG Premium, last week.  If you aren't subscribed to premium you probably won't find it on google until it's made available a month after being published.

catowner wrote:
Welcome to 2012. Blue has the most efficient creatures, black has the all-in monocolored aggro deck, the most controlling deck in the format is green-red, control decks lose to aggro in attrition wars, and counterspells aren't an answer to fatties.
Islands wrote:
Pack Rat is like Bitterblossom and Tarmogoyf had a black baby.
Thats unfortunate

Are those decklists somewhere to look at though?

The RWB archetype I made is probably the best place for it, since you can get it back over and over once you lose it. Shame Gerry T tried to take credit for my list though



I'd be interested in seeing a RWB list, if you don't mind.
Yeah, cause a rwb shell is not a completely obvious place to put it...

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Sure it was obvious, but I built and tuned it first to achieve some success at a decent level event.


rulesinquisitor: Here's the list from the WMCQ, it was pre-avacyn restored, so I'd alter it now. I did run a build later on with grizzlebrand but I disliked it. I'd be tempted now to run the thundermaw hellkite, and Lingering souls is a little less useful so the deck needs tinkering with for sure....

www.manaleak.com/mtguk/2012/04/the-first...
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Yeah, but your "some guy stole this idea from me" routine is getting a bit old. It is, in fact, possible that people develop the same ideas separately from each other, especially in the case of something as limited as Standard MTG.

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Yeah, but your "some guy stole this idea from me" routine is getting a bit old. It is, in fact, possible that people develop the same ideas separately from each other, especially in the case of something as limited as Standard MTG.



Tone doesn't really work very well on forums, I was joking about because yes it has happened in the past where people have flat out stole ideas from me and claimed them as their own, but this list was something I top 8'd somethign with, not something I passed onto friends who showed it to someone who tried to claim it etc. I was making a joking inference about in the past, perhaps a different smiley face would have conveyed this better.
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Yeah, but your "some guy stole this idea from me" routine is getting a bit old. It is, in fact, possible that people develop the same ideas separately from each other, especially in the case of something as limited as Standard MTG.



Tone doesn't really work very well on forums, I was joking about because yes it has happened in the past where people have flat out stole ideas from me and claimed them as their own, but this list was something I top 8'd somethign with, not something I passed onto friends who showed it to someone who tried to claim it etc. I was making a joking inference about in the past, perhaps a different smiley face would have conveyed this better.


Fair enough. But on the other hand, you once made an inference that I had stolen a deck idea from you (RUG LD, when you were calling it Horse Feathers) despite the fact that I had developed the list without any knowledge of what you were working on. And it looks like other people are taking the statement seriously.

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

Yeah, but your "some guy stole this idea from me" routine is getting a bit old. It is, in fact, possible that people develop the same ideas separately from each other, especially in the case of something as limited as Standard MTG.



Tone doesn't really work very well on forums, I was joking about because yes it has happened in the past where people have flat out stole ideas from me and claimed them as their own, but this list was something I top 8'd somethign with, not something I passed onto friends who showed it to someone who tried to claim it etc. I was making a joking inference about in the past, perhaps a different smiley face would have conveyed this better.


Fair enough. But on the other hand, you once made an inference that I had stolen a deck idea from you (RUG LD, when you were calling it Horse Feathers) despite the fact that I had developed the list without any knowledge of what you were working on. And it looks like other people are taking the statement seriously.




The insinuation was that Billy Moreno stole the deck(which I thought you had copied from him). Considering a friend of mine GAVE Billy Moreno my decklist in person a few weeks before he came out with "his new deck", I was pretty justified in calling him a deck thief.

I may have just been on a rage and it may have felt like you were under that, but people on these forums tend to be very good at crediting each other and many people do often end up with similar decks on here.
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#magicdrama

So... dunno if it'll get me in trouble or not (don't much care) but what do you guys think about those "spoilers"? The contract idea is neat, even with the near-obvious fakeness. 

(at)MrEnglish22

#magicdrama

So... dunno if it'll get me in trouble or not (don't much care) but what do you guys think about those "spoilers"? The contract idea is neat, even with the near-obvious fakeness. 



Link please?
#magicdrama

So... dunno if it'll get me in trouble or not (don't much care) but what do you guys think about those "spoilers"? The contract idea is neat, even with the near-obvious fakeness. 



What are you talking about??
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71235715 wrote:
Blightwind Gust SCREAMS fake to me. Too close to Damantion, which is something a small vocal group want but it makes no sense to print. It also gives black and answer to things it can't normally answer.

Contract doesn't seem to work with Hellbent at all (keeps cards in your hand instead of emptying it), which goes against what the mechanics are supposed to be. Contract also seems ten times more likely to be Orzhov's mechanic (Church of Deals, much?). It also isn't grokkable (do I still have that Contract from three turns ago?), as it contains no mechanical way to keep track, violating one of the design philosophies.


Selectrictian seems fine, but doesn't seem good enough to be rare. In fact, it looks quite terrible.


Jace will never be UR, it makes absolutely no sense for him to be so. I also doubt they'll have designed a two-mana Planeswalker before they actually released their previous two-mana Planeswalker to see how he tested.


All of this reeks of the sorts of cards that YMTC novies build - things they think are cool, but aren't actually good design. Too much "I wish we had this thing!" and not enough "This fills a good role for the game."


Add to that that we have no images to back any of this up.



So, I'm calling fake, fake, fake, fake.
Blightwind Gust SCREAMS fake to me. Too close to Damantion, which is something a small vocal group want but it makes no sense to print. It also gives black and answer to things it can't normally answer.

Contract doesn't seem to work with Hellbent at all (keeps cards in your hand instead of emptying it), which goes against what the mechanics are supposed to be. Contract also seems ten times more likely to be Orzhov's mechanic (Church of Deals, much?). It also isn't grokkable (do I still have that Contract from three turns ago?), as it contains no mechanical way to keep track, violating one of the design philosophies.


Selectrictian seems fine, but doesn't seem good enough to be rare. In fact, it looks quite terrible.


Jace will never be UR, it makes absolutely no sense for him to be so. I also doubt they'll have designed a two-mana Planeswalker before they actually released their previous two-mana Planeswalker to see how he tested.


All of this reeks of the sorts of cards that YMTC novies build - things they think are cool, but aren't actually good design. Too much "I wish we had this thing!" and not enough "This fills a good role for the game."


Add to that that we have no images to back any of this up.



So, I'm calling fake, fake, fake, fake.



To be perfectly honest, Gust seems plausable but not with "Destroy all enchantments", last time in Ravnica we got the good removal of Putrefy, so adding a green and adding destroying all Artifacts as an option seems more plausable.

Who knows.

EDIT: Looking at the actual spoilers Jarad is my kind of card. Not to expensive, for rock its reasonable on mana and can have alot of good interactions with survivability and just beat face.

EDIT, EDIT: Grave titan has always been playable, along with all the rest of the titans.
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I don't think anybody disagrees with you about G Titan, Cage. Like I said at the start, it is just finding a good home for the big guy.


I want Jarad to be good, but every time I see the card, I just see what he could have been. Like flinging himself, bringing back other dudes, or just starting out bigger, or having his ability to scale better (each green and black CARD in your graveyard, each creature in ALL graveyards).


While I think the spoilers are ilkely fake, I like the idea of the "Contract with X" ability.  But think about it: Contract with Rakdos, making a deal with a Demon? Liliana is hunting after demons, after all. Would give them a reason for reprinting her. Also, when I first heard about it, I thought that it was you (as a PW, something they haven't really portrayed well in a while) making a deal with one of the guilds during this big guild melee; a promise to battle for them and in exchange you get the best of their goodies.
It seems like something WotC would try out and though simply revealing the card could cause problems, its something that could easily work. It could be a way to start implementing emblems on a larger scale, though it would be confusing to new players (Hint: They're called Expert sets for a reason) 

(at)MrEnglish22