How...wha...buh...HUH?!

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I just received a PM from another user praising me for my page explaining first strike. My first thought was "Oh, cool; he must be talking about the Keyword FAQ"--you know, the one that I link to throughout my other rules FAQs.

But then I see the link. No, it turns out he's not talking about that FAQ entry. He's talking about the wiki entry for First Strike in the long-defunct Magic Rules Sages group that never went anywhere. A page that was copied over from the Keyword FAQ in 2009 and never updated since, in a group that has seen no activity whatsoever since March 2010. An incomplete page with multiple dead links. A page that is linked to approximately nowhere. (Except, now, here.)

Okay. Whatever. So somehow this lone person has managed to bypass all of the more prominent links to ferret out that one obscure page. How he did this I have no idea, but I can handle it. People can do weird things sometimes when they're looking for information.

But then I see the page view counter. That page on first strike has been viewed over 2,400 times. More than twice per day of its existence. For comparison, the main Keyword FAQ has existed for 6 years and currently has just under 206,400 views. Adjusting for the difference in duration, that measly, outdated, poorly-linked wiki page on first strike is getting viewed an average of just over once per 50 views of the official, visible, linked-everywhere Keyword FAQ. Somehow for every 50 people that find the FAQ--and that includes ones looking at any entry, not just the one for first strike--at least one finds the wiki page.

And that's not even the most-viewed page on that wiki. I did a bit of looking around after seeing this absurdity, and it turns out the entry for Double Strike, which is just as incomplete, outdated, poorly-linked, and undervisible, has received over 8,200 views. It gets viewed once for every 13 views of the FAQ.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!

My brain, it is melting!

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I don't know about you, but if I'm going to know about a game, I don't visit the forum for an FAQ, I visit a Wiki. Assuming it's mechanical parts and not strategy. I don't see it as that unrealistic. I don't know what would make double strike so incredibly interesting though, or keywords in general, but then again, I know this game quite well. I'm not sure if the comparison to me is too good, as it usually applies to video games.

Although commending someone on writing an entry on first strike is quite unexpected.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

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Whenever I start a new game that has no spoilers, I check the wiki.
Make the wiki close!
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Let me google that for you....
lmgtfy.com/?q=mtg+first+strike


You're the first "official" result.

I think one of the problems is that the FAQ has all that stuff in the text.  However, the wiki has the words "first strike" in the title.  Now, I don't 100% know how google does it's search engine magic, but it looks like the wiki page titles are much more prominent than the text in any particular thread (which kinda makes sense, actually....all our posts would pretty much flood google).

I tried googleing that same string with "FAQ" attached and your FAQ wasn't even on the top page.  In fact, I have trouble (i.e. I can't) thinking of a string that will result in your FAQ appearing in a google search....

These forums are awesome, right?

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
You clearly just have a Beiber-like fan base that will follow you anywhere, zammm.

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3,000th post: September 5, 2010 4,000th post: March 24, 2012 Winner of the YMTC Ravnica War of the Guilds contest as guild Dimir.

Snapcaster Mage is the best card of all time. How do you deal?

Let me google that for you....
lmgtfy.com/?q=mtg+first+strike


You're the first "official" result.

DANGIT!

I also checked the search on DailyMTG.com and it shows up as the second result for "first strike" there. That's just...aggravating, and kind of depressing. You spend all that time writing an awesome FAQ and updating it continually and it ends up relegated to the bottom rung by Google because it's on a forum, while a thrown-together copycat page you haven't touched in years is on top of the pile.

I guess this means I should go through and actually update that wiki. If people are going to find it anyway it might as well be something worth looking at. Maybe some of the features I was looking for at the time will at long last actually be available now...

*does some exploring*

...It appears that all the buttons on the editing screen save one are invisible. This does not bode well.

You clearly just have a Beiber-like fan base that will follow you anywhere, zammm.

Well I knew that.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Woo! Templates work! That's potentially an enormous help indeed. Now to work on an organizational scheme...

A wiki was always a better choice of format for the FAQ anyway, but the back end was so horrible at the time it wasn't worth developing. Maybe now there's a chance after all...

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Oh yeah, I meant to do another check.

I meant to search the forums to see what I could find...I just did and there were interesting results.

Searching for "rules faq" brings up only* a D&D faq
"MTG rules faq" is just random threads, with bubbas reorganization suggestion being #1
"First strike" brings up junk*

Ready for the lolz?
In 2 of 3 of those searches (the asterisks), you know what shows up?
This thread!!!!
(It shows up twice when searching for first strike)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Don't you love searches that are done by recent-ness rather than relevancy (and no options to sort)!

Good luck with the wiki, I'm sure it's going to be alot of trouble, heh.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Ready for the lolz?
In 2 of 3 of those searches (the asterisks), you know what shows up?
This thread!!!!
(It shows up twice when searching for first strike)

I know. God help me, I know.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Don't worry zammm, it's just because I make sure to visit that page 12 times a day to make sure that I really understand first strike.
ZAMMM:

One more reason why your page may be read frequently is the "Random page" function of the wiki. Everytime someone presses that button there's a chance that it's the first strike article that comes up.
It's true, the wiki comes up first on google if you search for "rules on first strike mtg." The main website doesn't even come up on the first page.
True post count: 9,900 Thanks Wotc for not counting archived posts. If I post without capital letters than means I'm posting from my phone. For some reason it hates typing capital letters. Go_Texans on MTGO. Texans 12-4 Wildcard: W Texans 19 Bengals 13 Divisional: L Texans 28 Patriots 41 Another awesome season!
ZAMMM:

One more reason why your page may be read frequently is the "Random page" function of the wiki. Everytime someone presses that button there's a chance that it's the first strike article that comes up.

Them's pretty good odds considering there are probably only about 100 wiki pages, and 20 of those are zammmmmmmm's.....

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
There's a "Random page" function? Where?

Also, browsing through the main wiki I found this. Whaat? Who does that?

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I think because of the popularity of Wikipedia and Wikia, people tend to look for wikis when they want to learn about a new topic. The search "magic wiki" or "mtg wiki" is probably common. Google likely weights results from wikis higher than normal for similar reasons.
I am not a fan of the google search engine... like, at all.  I remember when I was a kid, I could type something in and there was a good chance of me finding what I wanted... Now it only gives me things with related words that we highly viewed.
A bad theoretical example: I type in "The Atkins Diet"... Google would probably give me three pages about buying a book on dieting, or stuff about Trace Atkins (Country Musician).  None of this will give me the guidelines to the Atkins Diet.  They are just popular pages, which will make a highly viewed page get more views... which continues to make future searches worse.

Anyway, best of luck to you Zammm.  A lot of the stuff you write is good and informative, and I'm glad that you're some sort of mini-celebrity Magic writer on the internet.
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My Decks http://community.wizards.com/vennsvaults/go/forum/viewcategory/138835/Venns_Vaults My Bronation Station http://community.wizards.com/pony My 1000th post! On Thursday 03/13/2011! Yay St. Patric's day. How to play many other Casual Magic Formats http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29198663/?sdb=1&pg=last#521400213 Many of these were on the Magic Resources Site years ago. It was removed around the time 2HG became a sanctioned format. Purple Work Station http://community.wizards.com/purpleworkstation/go/forum/viewboard IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
You should try that art and see what actually happens.
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Legacy TezzFinityLegacy BurnModern Infect(need to break it) T2-dead
[sblock]
57307308 wrote:
Yes, but DOES HE PEE COLOURLESS MANA?
144543765 wrote:
144018173 wrote:
Serra Angel Serra Sphinx Serra Spider Though Vigilance is a poor fit for red, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serra Dragon. I could see Serra Demon, though.
Black Serra creature would have vigilance and fear. It would basically be Batman.
[//sblock]
Let's not and say we did.

Hey, Zammm... How often do people thank you for your FAQ?
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My Decks http://community.wizards.com/vennsvaults/go/forum/viewcategory/138835/Venns_Vaults My Bronation Station http://community.wizards.com/pony My 1000th post! On Thursday 03/13/2011! Yay St. Patric's day. How to play many other Casual Magic Formats http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29198663/?sdb=1&pg=last#521400213 Many of these were on the Magic Resources Site years ago. It was removed around the time 2HG became a sanctioned format. Purple Work Station http://community.wizards.com/purpleworkstation/go/forum/viewboard IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
I am not a fan of the google search engine... like, at all.  I remember when I was a kid, I could type something in and there was a good chance of me finding what I wanted... Now it only gives me things with related words that we highly viewed.
A bad theoretical example: I type in "The Atkins Diet"... Google would probably give me three pages about buying a book on dieting, or stuff about Trace Atkins (Country Musician).  None of this will give me the guidelines to the Atkins Diet.  They are just popular pages, which will make a highly viewed page get more views... which continues to make future searches worse.

Anyway, best of luck to you Zammm.  A lot of the stuff you write is good and informative, and I'm glad that you're some sort of mini-celebrity Magic writer on the internet.

Agree 100%. Google used to be awesome. Now it's terrible if you actually know what you're looking for.
 
I never really had a problem finding what I was searching for on google.

Your googlefu must be lacking.
Decks I play
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Legacy TezzFinityLegacy BurnModern Infect(need to break it) T2-dead
[sblock]
57307308 wrote:
Yes, but DOES HE PEE COLOURLESS MANA?
144543765 wrote:
144018173 wrote:
Serra Angel Serra Sphinx Serra Spider Though Vigilance is a poor fit for red, so I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serra Dragon. I could see Serra Demon, though.
Black Serra creature would have vigilance and fear. It would basically be Batman.
[//sblock]
ITT people confusing Bing for Google. 
ITT people confusing Bing for Google. 



You mean people actually use Bing to google things?  I always google with Google.
Ok, so I haven't played mgt in a couple years and have been a drone worker in society even longer...but what my boss just told me made me think of this site and I have to ask a question:

First, boss makes a joke about Magic...I yell "I will stomp this entire room right now in a game!  Bruiser deck?  Stompy?  I will crush you!"

He looks at me like I'm the biggest dork ever.  I concur with his look after glancing around the room at the blank stares.

I ask why he asked and he tells me that his wife gave their 10 yr old an unopened box...from like 92 or 93 he says.

I **** myself...twice.  I am dumbfounded.  I stammer something about "Alpha...Beta...Arabian Nights..."

He then tells me, "Yeah, unopened box and in the box were these packs of cards and he opened them...all."

Cue me fainting and **** again.  He tells me that they're probably playing with them right now.  I proceed to show him the worth of what he might have...he proceeds to **** himself.  He calls his wife laughing and I tell him if they are what I think they are then that box would've been worth $5000 EASILY...upwards of tens of thousands if cards are cut evenly and any of the original power 9 cards are in there.  He doesn't understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.

I then show him what a Black Lotus Alpha perfect condition goes for.  

Cue audible silence.

Ok, so that's the story, but now the question:

What is best way for me to beat his kid up for the cards...ok, wrong question...

What is best way to find out the cost of the cards and what is the most up to date "Wizard" for him to see the value of the cards.  Also, who is the best person/company to bring these cards to?

All I can say is wow, nothing will bring your day to a sudden halt like Magic: The Gathering. 
That was either:

A) Best Troll Ever

or

B) Perfect example of the state of our forum system and architecture...

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
B) Perfect example of the state of our forum system and architecture...


Mind if I ask how?
Edit: Actually, explain both.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

I swear to Karn that I am not a troll, this literally happened 2 hours ago and my boss has already told his son to STOP playing with them and put them up.  

I'm new, I didn't know where to post it I just went to the most recent post in hopes that I can be directed to the right forum...

This is serious...and sadly, kinda funny if I saw it on t.v...like when a virgin can lose it to a super model if he would've just asked or something.

Help me Obi-Kaioshin Mown...direct me to where I should go or what you would do. 
Well, magic general is pretty well suited for general magic questions. It's more natural to make an independent thread for the subject though, as this one is dedicated to something else. However, you can easily check prices on Trollandtoad, Cardkindom, Starcitygames or other websites. magiccards.info might also be handy, as it works like gatherer but is linked to various stores. Maybe there's a price sort or something. As for the best way to sell them, I have no idea, but would probably recommend Ebay.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

B) Perfect example of the state of our forum system and architecture...

Even the best designed forum will not stop people from posting off topic.
B) Perfect example of the state of our forum system and architecture...


Mind if I ask how?
Edit: Actually, explain both.

Well, the premise of the thread is basically that things don't point to where you'd expect.  The forums are a labyrinth.  Or, at the very least, people end up in places where you'd never expect them to be....

Then, in waltzes in a new poster (1st post) and puts in a horrendously off topic post* in this very thread.

The context is just too much for me. 

To be fair, I was using trolling very lightly.  I more meant 'making light of the situation'




*Not that I mind the post or the fact that it was off topic, the context is just amazing
In the proper context, I would also like the post.




B) Perfect example of the state of our forum system and architecture...

Even the best designed forum will not stop people from posting off topic.


Check his second post....it was directly caused by the terribleness of our forums.  I believe he clicked on that stupd "recent posts" sidebar along the right side of the forums community.

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
Getting back on topic... sorta'... Because we're talking about wierd posts, and wierd stuff on the forums and Zammm's main point I think had to do with relevency (that's enough mental backflips to make this on topic, right?), somebody else hates those stupid recent things on the side too?!  Really, who cares about what's rescent or popular! So much of that is about D&D and Starwars to begin with and we're in the Magic Forums, it's relatively useless.

Besides, in a case like that, I think we're all willing to look the other way on relevency.

On another of our topics: I don't use Bing.  I as a matter of fact have never used bing.  I use google or blackle.  They still suck.

So, Zammm, how's that ole' updating the really old Wiki doing?
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My Decks http://community.wizards.com/vennsvaults/go/forum/viewcategory/138835/Venns_Vaults My Bronation Station http://community.wizards.com/pony My 1000th post! On Thursday 03/13/2011! Yay St. Patric's day. How to play many other Casual Magic Formats http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29198663/?sdb=1&pg=last#521400213 Many of these were on the Magic Resources Site years ago. It was removed around the time 2HG became a sanctioned format. Purple Work Station http://community.wizards.com/purpleworkstation/go/forum/viewboard IMAGE(http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/images/2/23/Phyrexian_Loyalty.png)
Assuming you got rid of them, what would you utilize the space for?

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)

Thank you guys for looking out, I already printed up those sites for my boss so he can see that I was not kidding about the value of them.  

Yes, you are right...I went to the most recent post and blindly jumped in with the story.  I had to tell someone...my old MTG buddies are married or pretending they never played, bastards, so I went to one of the first places I could think of.

Again, very sorry about the off topic-ness of my post, I appreciate all the help I have got and thought that anyone that played would enjoy the story/post...even though I wasn't able to save a booster.

Agreed, google/blackle/bing suck...but unfortunately they are the most updated and (sadly)widely recognized for general authenticity. 

 
Let me guess, they want to a yard sale and bought the unopened box for like $5?
Let me guess, they want to a yard sale and bought the unopened box for like $5?

nope, the bosses wife has had it for years from a dorky little brother and didnt think about it until going through their storage shed.

i came here for help, i can get ridicule or disbelief anywhere.  

but thanks for responding to the initial question, if i wanted to make it sound stupid i would have said i had a girlfriend who did...blah blah blah.

my bad for remembering my old dungeon days and looking for help, no wonder nobody plays anymore, everyone thinks their the comic book guy and everyone is beneath them. 
I got my friend's brother's cards, his whole collection for $50.

He's a stoner, so yeah. Funny thing is, I got a lot of Power Nine cards in there. Pretty ridiculous.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
Assuming you got rid of them, what would you utilize the space for?

Well, how about making the forums stretch the full width of the screen?  No, no, no...who'd want that?  I know I prefer it to be scrunched up to only take up about half the width of my screen.  We all know I don't need all this screen space, I'm just compensating for other things, right?  Right?

---

I thought all you guys were stupid when complaining about how google works.  Then...I tried to look up if SH media contained citric acid.  Yeah, that went over poorly.  Google kept throwing things back about shrimp?  How do you go from "SH media recipe" to "shrimp recipes"...it didn't even ask if that's what I meant, it just kept returning shrimp recipes...

My forever unfinished blog of the 2010 MTGO Community Cup: if you're ever bored...
I'd rather not have to start reading at one side at my monitor to the other, so I'm once again not sure what you would put there.

Yxoque wrote:
This forum can't even ****ing self-destruct properly.

IMAGE(http://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/plusle.gif)



I thought all you guys were stupid when complaining about how google works.  Then...I tried to look up if SH media contained citric acid.  Yeah, that went over poorly.  Google kept throwing things back about shrimp?  How do you go from "SH media recipe" to "shrimp recipes"...it didn't even ask if that's what I meant, it just kept returning shrimp recipes...



Yep.

To be perhaps too blunt: Google attempting to compensate for dumb people by showing them what it thinks they meant has made it extremely difficult for smart people to find anything.
 
I'd rather not have to start reading at one side at my monitor to the other, so I'm once again not sure what you would put there.

Addition by substraction. If they put absolutely nothing there and left the width of the forum list the way it is, it would be an impovement.