Houseruled Monks

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Frankly, I was not really ready to (if ever) submit this unpolished 3.85 Monk class, but Slagger suggests it might garner some conversation.  You might want to wait until he posts his as well.  I have a version of his, but haven't even read it myself, as I'm due at work in 30 minutes.  So, until tonight, here's mine:

(Oh, and everything is OGL from Pathfinder and 3.5 SRD's) but keep in mind the note at the end.  All other class features, skill set, rules of any other kind are otherwise back to the 3.5 core monk class, not shown below.



Table: Monk


































































































































































































































































Level



Base Attack Bonus



Fort Save



Ref Save



Will Save



Special



Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus



Unarmed


or


Monk


Weapon


Damage



AC Bonus



Fast movement



1st



+0



+2



+2



+2



Bonus Feat



1/–1



1d6



+0



+0 ft.



2nd



+1



+3



+3



+3



Bonus Feat



+0/+0



1d6



+0



+0 ft.



3rd



+2



+3



+3



+3





+1/+1



1d6



+0



+10 ft.



4th



+3



+4



+4



+4





+2/+2



1d8



+1



+10 ft.



5th



+3



+4



+4



+4





+3/+3



1d8



+1



+10 ft.



6th



+4



+5



+5



+5



Bonus Feat



+4/+4/


1



1d8



+1



+20 ft.



7th



+5



+5



+5



+5





+5/+5/


+0



1d8



+1



+20 ft.



8th



+6/+1



+6



+6



+6





+6/+6/


+1/+1



1d10



+2



+20 ft.



9th



+6/+1



+6



+6



+6





+7/+7/


+2/+2



1d10



+2



+30 ft.



10th



+7/+2



+7



+7



+7



Bonus Feat



+8/+8/


+3/+3



1d10



+2



+30 ft.



11th



+8/+3



+7



+7



+7





+9/+9/


+4/+4/


1



1d10



+2



+30 ft.



12th



+9/+4



+8



+8



+8





+10/+10/+5/+5/


+0



2d6



+3



+40 ft.



13th



+9/+4



+8



+8



+8





+11/+11/+6/+6/


+1



2d6



+3



+40 ft.



14th



+10/+5



+9



+9



+9



Bonus Feat



+12/+12/+7/+7/


+2



2d6



+3



+40 ft.



15th



+11/+6/+1



+9



+9



+9





+13/+13/+8/+8/


+3/+3



2d6



+3



+50 ft.



16th



+12/+7/+2



+10



+10



+10





+14/+14/+9/+9/


+4/+4/


1



2d8



+4



+50 ft.



17th



+12/+7/+2



+10



+10



+10





+15/+15/+10/


+10/+5/


+5/+0



2d8



+4



+50 ft.



18th



+13/+8/+3



+11



+11



+11



Bonus Feat



+16/+16/+11/


+11/+6/


+6/+1



2d8



+4



+60 ft.



19th



+14/+9/+4



+11



+11



+11





+17/+17/+12/


+12/+7/


+7/+2



2d8



+4



+60 ft.



20th



+15/


+10/+5



+12



+12



+12





+18/+18/+13/


+13/+8/


+8/+3



2d10



+5



+60 ft.



Flurry of Blows (Ex)


Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.


At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).


At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).



A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.




Bonus Feats


At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a monk may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list:


Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, and Throw Anything.


At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list:


Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, and Mobility.


At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list:


Improved Critical, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack.


A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.




Special Monk Weapons, Melee: With any weapon designated a “special monk weapon” with which he is proficient and making a melee attack, a monk substitutes his unarmed damage dice for the weapon's normal dice, if better. Special attacks or ki powers are not transferred, except of course by ki focus melee weapons. This is a class feature.



Special Monk Weapons, Ranged (hurled): The monk has the option to make a single hurled attack with a shuriken or a sai as a standard action that applies her unarmed damage dice instead of the weapon's. These weapons hurled as part of a flurry (or other full attack) do only normal weapon damage. Special attacks or ki powers are never transferred. This is a class feature.



Special Monk Weapons, General: The DM may allow other “special monk weapons” for allowable use with flurry. Examples include the DMG kusari-gama (includes kyuketsu-shogi, etc) and others like the three-sectional staff or two bladed sword, for instance. Each shall be researched and approved seperately, by the DM with player input being considered. It will most often be the case that the weapon requires an appropriate weapon proficiency feat, to be allowed to flurry and grant the above. (Called “exotic monk weapon”, “additional special monk weapon”, whatever, and this supercedes the splatbooks' idea that it requires weapon focus, etc.).


All of the above rules assume a full understanding of a strange composite set of the 3.5 monk class with the modifications of the Pathfinder chart class rules as well. All class abilities and features remain 3.5 aside from the “stolen” rules of Paizo with the feat additions, and then the additions of houserules at the end. This is a play testing “tweak” that seems to be okay in three sessions from party level 10 & 11, with a kasari and some shuriken.

This is the most recent version of my spirit monk class.  Unlike the earlier version, it returns to a medium base attack bonus, performing all improvements through the extra skills points and special ability changes/additions.

Specific goals of the spirit monk are to:


  • Reduce MAD (Multiple Ability Dependency).

  • Improve melee ability.

  • Become a more viable anti-spellcaster.

  • Remain compatible with existing alternative class features and similar options.


The table is to allow easy comparison of how and when special abilities are gained compared to other statistics; the only real changes from the standard monk are in the "Special" column.  Full details of the new and altered abilities follow the table, with brief notes on the changes given in incarnum blue.

Spirit Monk













































































































































































LevelBABFort/Ref/WillSpecialFlurry Attack Bonus
Unarmed Damage/AC/Speed
1+0+2Bonus feat, flurry of blows, unarmed strike-2/-21d6/+0/+0 ft.
2+1+3Bonus feat, evasion-1/-11d6/+0/+0 ft.
3+2+3Ki prediction, still mind+0/+01d6/+0/+10 ft.
4+3+4Ki strike (magic), rush 5 ft., slow fall 20 ft.+1/+11d8/+0/+10 ft.
5+3+4Purity of body, spirit sense (invisible)+2/+21d8/+0/+10 ft.
6+4+5Bonus feat, slow fall 30 ft.+3/+31d8/+1/+20 ft.
7+5+5Mobile flurry, wholeness of body+4/+41d8/+1/+20 ft.
8+6/+1+6Rush 10 ft., slow fall 40 ft., spirit step (move)+5/+5/+01d10/+1/+20 ft.
9+6/+1+6Improved evasion+6/+6/+11d10/+1/+30 ft.
10+7/+2+7Ki strike (lawful), slow fall 50 ft.+7/+7/+21d10/+2/+30 ft.
11+8/+3+7Diamond body, greater flurry+8/+8/+8/+31d10/+2/+30 ft.
12+9/+4+8Rush 15 ft., slow fall 60 ft., spirit sense (swift)+9/+9/+9/+42d6/+2/+40 ft.
13+9/+4+8Diamond soul+9/+9/+9/+42d6/+2/+40 ft.
14+10/+5+9Slow fall 70 ft., spirit sense (ethereal)+10/+10/+10/+52d6/+2/+40 ft.
15+11/+6/+1+9Spirit step (swift), quivering palm+11/+11/+11/+6/+12d6/+3/+50 ft.
16+12/+7/+2+10Ki strike (adamantine), rush 20 ft., slow fall 80 ft.+12/+12/+12/+7/+22d8/+3/+50 ft.
17+12/+7/+2+10Timeless body, tongue of the sun and moon+12/+12/+12/+7/+22d8/+3/+50 ft.
18+13/+8/+3+11Diamond strike, slow fall 90 ft+13/+13/+13/+8/+32d8/+3/+60 ft.
19+14/+9/+4+11Empty body+14/+14/+14/+9/+42d8/+3/+60 ft.
2015/+10/+5+12Perfect self, rush 25 ft., slow fall any distance+15/+15/+15/+10/+52d10/+4/+60 ft.


OVERVIEW
The spirit monk replaces the standard monk class.  It features two additional skill points per level (for a total of 6 + Int modifier), and has the following changes to special abilities at the indicated levels.  It is otherwise identical to the standard monk class, with the standard d8 Hit Die size and class skill list.  Increased skill points reduce the monk's Int-related MAD.

Add: Ki prediction (3rd), spirit sense (5th, 14th), mobile flurry (7th), spirit step (8th, 15th), diamond strike (18th).
Change: Bonus feat (1st, 2nd, 6th), slow fall (4th+), diamond soul (13th), quivering palm (15th).
Remove: Abundant step (12th).  There don't seem to be any official variants that replace abundant step, and spirit step is meaningfully different.

CLASS FEATURES
The spirit monk gains the diamond strike, ki prediction, mobile flurry, spirit step (replacing abundant step), and spirit sense abilities described below.  The versions of her bonus feat, diamond soul, quivering palm, and slow fall abilities presented here replace those of the standard monk.
   Mobile Flurry: A monk of at least 7th level can move up to her speed while performing a flurry of blows.  She loses any iterative attacks granted by her base attack bonus when making a mobile flurry, and she must move at least 10 feet between each attack she makes.
  Mobile flurry is an addition to the flurry of blows ability.  A compromise option between full movement and full attacking that makes use of flurrying.
  Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat.  At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat.  At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
    At 2nd and 6th level, the monk may also select any of the monk bonus feats available to her at lower levels.  Any additional bonus feats (beyond those listed here) that require the monk to already possess another monk bonus feat retain that requirement.  A minor improvement in flexibility for feat choices.
    Ki Prediction (Ex): A monk of at least 3rd level uses the inherent spiritual energy of her foes to guide her attacks.  She adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) as an insight bonus to attack and damage rolls with her unarmed strike and special monk weapons, up to a maximum value equal to her monk level.  This bonus also applies to grapple checks, trip attempts, and unarmed melee touch attacks (such as those made to start a trip or grapple).  Picks up the numerical slack of medium BAB and allows the monk to lean more on her Wisdom than Strength.
   Rush (Ex): From 4th level onward, when an opponent the monk can see performs an action that can provoke an attack of opportunity, she may immediately move 5 feet towards that opponent before determining whether or not they provoke an attack of opportunity within her threatened area.  The monk must move directly towards the closest space from which she can attack the opponent.  This movement is not a 5-foot step, and can provoke attacks of opportunity from opponents that threaten the monk.    It does not count towards the monk's total movement for the round.
    Using this ability is a single attack of opportunity that enables the monk to both move towards her opponent and deliver her attack.  The attack of opportunity is expended even if the monk does not (or cannot) make the attack.  This ability cannot be used more than once against a given provoking opportunity.  Improves melee ability through area control by effectively increasing the monk's threatened area.
    The distance that the monk can move when using this ability increases to 10 feet at 8th level, 15 feet at 12th level, 20 feet at 16th level, and 25 feet at 20th level.
   Slow Fall (Ex):
At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm’s reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, she takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is.  For every 10 feet the monk descends, she may also move 5 feet horizontally, providing she remains within arm's reach of a wall.  Moving horizontally while falling does not count against her normal movement in a round.  Gives one slight advantage over the magical equivalents.
    The monk’s ability to slow her fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with her monk level until at 20th level she can use a nearby wall to slow her descent and fall any distance without harm.
    Spirit Sense (Su): A monk of 5th level or higher can focus her inner vision as a standard action, allowing her to see invisible creatures as if they were normally visible, but blurring her perceptions and granting all creatures concealment against her (both visible and invisible).  Each use of this ability lasts for 1 round per monk level, but can be ended as a free action.  The limited duration and concealment make using it a tactical choice, rather than the "always on" power of previous versions.
    From 12th level, the monk can choose to activate this ability as a swift action.
    From 14th level, the monk can also see ethereal creatures (which likewise gain concealment).
    Spirit Step (Su): At 8th level or higher, a monk can use a move action to slip magically between spaces.  This ability functions like the spell dimension door, except that the monk’s maximum distance is 20 feet per level, and she can take other actions after transferring herself.  She can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom modifier.  Her caster level for this effect is equal to her monk level.  Shorter range than abundant step, but more frequent and more useful.
    At 15th level, using this ability becomes a swift action. 
    Diamond Soul (Ex): At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 12. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk’s spell resistance.  A conscious monk can choose not to apply her spell resistance against a given spell.  Equals the spell resistance spell in power, and isn't a constant barrier to friendly spells.
    Quivering Palm (Su): Once per day, starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if she so desires.  She must choose to use quivering palm before making her attack roll, affecting the target if it takes damage from her attack.  Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to quivering palm. 
    The vibrations of quivering palm last for a number of days equal to the monk's level.  During that time the monk can trigger the vibrations as a free action, causing the target to die unless it succeeds on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ½ the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier).   On a successful save, the target is dealt 1d6 points of damage per monk level.  The quivering palm effect ends immediately, regardless of the result of the saving throw.
    A monk may also use her quivering palm attack to cancel the effect of a quivering palm produced by a monk of equal or lower level.  In addition to the increased uses, it gains a minor countering application and a failed save effect.
    A monk who has the Stunning Fist feat can expend two of her stunning attacks to gain one additional use of quivering palm.  The stunning attacks so expended do not produce their normal effect.  Mixes with Stunning Fist in the same sort of way that domain feats mix with turn/rebuke undead.
    Diamond Strike (Su): A monk of at least 18th level empowers her melee attacks with force, allowing them to strike ethereal creatures and to avoid the normal miss chance when attacking incorporeal creatures.  If the monk strikes a force effect produced by a spell or spell-like ability, she can attempt a special dispel check (1d20 + her monk level + her Wisdom modifier) to immediately end the effect, even if it is not normally affected by dispel magic.  The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level.  The monk can attempt this dispel check against a targeted force effect (such as mage armour) upon a creature she successfully strikes with a melee attack.  Makes the 18th level more worthwhile by allowing you to slap ghosts around and break the unbreakable.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
First questions on the Spirit Monk are:

Abundant Step is 12th level on my charts, I assume you just mean that your Spirit Step starts at 8th.  I also had Abundant Step split up a long time ago, patterned after the Shadowdancer ability;  I'd forgotten about that houserule, it's been so long since I played that character;  My wife's monk is the first monk in a decade, real time, I think.

Oops, meant to study the class more, but wife wants a ride to the store;  bbl.
I tried to buff the monk too but I guess it was a bit of a hack job...

I really like some of the things that the spirit monk does... Ki prediction is probably my favorite. It helps solve the whole "monks can't really benefit from power attack" problem.

NeueRegel, your monk looks too similar to the Pathfinder monk for it to be distinctive. The feats are a nice touch, but feats don't really cover some of the glaring weaknesses of the class.

I love the concept of the monk class, which is what prompted me to make my own... However, neither of these really cover the monks most glaring weakness: it just isn't given the tools to succeed in melee. It's a melee class, but lacks the hit points, attack bonus, ac, and damage (although the spirit monk gains some ground here) to be effective. You can't even argue that it's a skirmisher because its primary attack doesn't work with movement...

Of the two, I prefer the spirit monk due to the fact that it has a lot of new stuff that, on paper, seems to work...
Abundant Step is 12th level on my charts, I assume you just mean that your Spirit Step starts at 8th.

Whoops, yes, it should be noted as being removed from 12th.  Fixed.
I tried to buff the monk too but I guess it was a bit of a hack job... I really like some of the things that the spirit monk does... Ki prediction is probably my favorite. It helps solve the whole "monks can't really benefit from power attack" problem.

Even the standard monk can benefit fully from Power Attack if she likes the quarterstaff as a weapon, she just can't gain quite as much from it due to her lower BAB and doesn't apply her better unarmed damage (on the other hand, she can use a flurry of blows while  employing Power Attack).  In my own campaign, the Ascetic Weapon Mastery feat allows a monk to use her base unarmed damage with special monk weapons, so it's not an ability I built into the spirit monk.

It does, however, depend on what you're trying to patch up, and how; I'd like to hear what goals NeueRegal had for his monk design.  Thinking about it, I also had one additional criteria in that I tried to avoid making the spirit monk an even better dip class than the standard monk (one of the problems with full BAB) though it's also a natural fit, since the levels at which people normally drop out of the class are the ones where you don't gain a good ability and are thus ripe for improvement.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Slagger wrote:

It does, however, depend on what you're trying to patch up, and how; I'd like to hear what goals NeueRegal had for his monk design.  Thinking about it, I also had one additional criteria in that I tried to avoid making the spirit monk an even better dip class than the standard monk (one of the problems with full BAB) though it's also a natural fit, since the levels at which people normally drop out of the class are the ones where you don't gain a good ability and are thus ripe for improvement.




Well, I wasn't exactly trying to patch anything, so much as streamline what we felt "should be" just "normal".  I originally stole the Pathfinder flurry bit simply to curb the 3.5 monk from applying two weapon fighting to flurry + offhand attacks (which was legalized in 3.5 FAQ somewhere on the threads).  Then I just liked the feat selections/expansions. 

The other weapon ideas were age old, I mean, from 1e...  That a monk couldn't at least use his specialized weapons at least as well as his martial arts bare knuckles plus a bit of wood or blade?  Bruce Lee wouldn't have bothered with his chucks!

Now, I'm not going to go up and edit my original post any, in case anybody comes along and should see it as I posted, and as Slagger posted.  I like two of Slaggers ideas very much, but I disagree on the levels and power of each conversely and inversely. 

I think that his version of spirit step is far too powerful, granted at the same level as a sorcerer would get it and multiple times, "free and clear", with far greater utility (a move action!) and then even a swift action.  I'm keeping the name and level abundant step, but using it.

I think that his 18th level idea is exactly the void stupid gap fix for the lawful ki which has irked the living frak out of me since the first time I figured out 3.5, years ago.  I'm not going to be in many combats with titans or with Chaotic Neutral clerics.  But the [force] idea though seemingly powerful is almost just as self limiting and I feel far over-powered to need 18th level, you don't fight all that many of those baddies either, and it's a perfect extension of the [magic] ki effect.  Fills things in a bit, I think.  Great move!

So, to add to my original post, my class is going to include all of my first class, plus:


Ki Strike (Su): Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as [force] effect weapons for the purpose of hitting and dealing damage to ethereal and incorporeal targets (etc.). This does not convey nor grant any actual means to see such targets or creatures that are not normally visible.


The [Lawful] effect still applies, but there are no such creatures.



Abundant Step (Su): At 12th level or higher, a monk can use a move action to slip magically between spaces. This ability functions like the spell dimension door, except that the monk’s maximum distance is 20 feet per level, and she can take other actions after transferring herself. She can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Wisdom modifier. Her caster level for this effect is equal to one-half her monk level. Shorter range than the original abundant step, but more frequent and more useful.


At 16th level, using this ability becomes a swift action.




Oh, and edit:  I forgot to address the issue about "dipping".  The reader needs to understand that dipping never happens in our games, unlike most current modern players.  Our group tends to play a class 1-20.  Core 3.5.  This monk thing is really a wild stretch for us.  That's why mine looks so "bland" compared to what builds and stuff you all talk abouit.
Well, I wasn't exactly trying to patch anything, so much as streamline what we felt "should be" just "normal".  I originally stole the Pathfinder flurry bit simply to curb the 3.5 monk from applying two weapon fighting to flurry + offhand attacks (which was legalized in 3.5 FAQ somewhere on the threads).  Then I just liked the feat selections/expansions. 

That's the important difference with goals, since I'd prefer to accomodate the existing possibilities for two-weapon fighting monks.  One thing I don't particularly like for Pathfinder's solution is the playing around with BAB and directly using the Two-Weapon Fighting feats with all their added complexity (I may want the possibility of supporting it as an option, but I still dislike that complexity).  The standard flurry just directly adding extra attacks at full BAB is one of the things I like about it.

The feats I consider something separate, however, since they're not directly part of the class structure, and can be expanded indefinitely without any alteration to the monk herself, much like the addition of new fighter feats.  I can simply come up with a new feat, note in its own text that it can be taken as a monk bonus feat in the appropriate way, and it instantly expands her range of options.
I think that his version of spirit step is far too powerful, granted at the same level as a sorcerer would get it and multiple times, "free and clear", with far greater utility (a move action!) and then even a swift action.  I'm keeping the name and level abundant step, but using it.

My view on it was that the monk isn't really getting anything else that a sorcerer would get (and the sorcerer could also cast dimension door multiple times if he wanted), and a lot of the time it's not much more convenient than a regular move for getting somewhere, given the monk's high speed.  That said, I could see staging it a bit more, but the monk definitely needs something that's better than her existing tricks.

I think that his 18th level idea is exactly the void stupid gap fix for the lawful ki which has irked the living frak out of me since the first time I figured out 3.5, years ago.  I'm not going to be in many combats with titans or with Chaotic Neutral clerics.  But the [force] idea though seemingly powerful is almost just as self limiting and I feel far over-powered to need 18th level, you don't fight all that many of those baddies either, and it's a perfect extension of the [magic] ki effect.  Fills things in a bit, I think.  Great move!

I think you could just extend the "magic" part of the ki strike to function fully as a magic weapon for the purpose of striking incorporeal creatures (instead of just being able to overcome damage reduction).  Being able to hit incorporeal creatures more easily is pretty typical (just about everyone gets a magic weapon, and ki strike magic turns up at 4th level), but being able to hit those that are fully ethereal does seem a higher-level effect.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
I'm bumping this thread because I think flurry of blows deserves some specific attention, and it helps to keep everything together.  In a different thread, I came up with this as a potential addition for the spirit monk:

Mobile Flurry: A monk of at least 7th level can move up to her speed while performing a flurry of blows.  She loses any iterative attacks granted by her base attack bonus when making a mobile flurry, and she must move at least 10 feet between each attack she makes.
Mobile flurry is an addition to the flurry of blows ability.  A compromise between full movement and full attacking.  The monk still deals the most damage in a full attack, but now she can use her high speed to move about and still hand out more than just a single attack.

I'll also edit this into the initial spirit monk entry in post #2.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
Good call Slagger, the repost/bump etc.  I actually did see the post about your problem coming up with a suitable name for it, but though I gave it some thought, I've worked and been awake for the last 38 of 48 hours.  I thought of "Spring Flurry" at least, and thought myself cute that it sounded monk-like (Master of Flowers, Master of Autumn, Master of Spring, all the old-time names...)  

Then I fell asleep in the bathtub.

True story. 
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I had a similar idea for my monk idea... I also gave it a flurry with every iterative attack.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... I had a similar idea for my monk idea... I also gave it a flurry with every iterative attack.

I notice that you came up with the same name as I did; I guess that "mobile flurry" is really the most accurate description of what it does.

I decided to cut the iterative attacks partly to avoid diluting the effectiveness of a full attack made while standing still, partly to streamline the attack bonuses (since they all become the same), and partly to make it a more interesting middle-ground option rather than a 100% improvement over a stationary full attack.  I also kind of dislike increasing the number of attacks (and hence dice rolls) since they just slow down play.

The thought to use a reduced number of attacks combined with the movement came to me after reading something Tempest Stormwind said about the benefits of Snap Kick (compared to a flurry of blows), since having a kind of reduced flurry with movement seems like an ideal answer.

I could potentially cut the 10 ft. movement between attacks, since that's a little less important (it spreads the attacks out more through the movement which gives a better feel and emphasizes the monk's mobility rather than just moving up to unleash a full barrage from one spot).  It could probably use something against attacks of opportunity, though that's potentially covered by ranks in Tumble and it allows a tactical choice between full speed movement and half-speed tumbling.

Putting it at 7th level puts it just after one of the normal points for dropping out of monk, while being at the same general level as where you get an extra iterative attack in a full BAB class.  It also makes it seem like a better level for special abilities than just having wholeness of body.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... I had a similar idea for my monk idea... I also gave it a flurry with every iterative attack.

I notice that you came up with the same name as I did; I guess that "mobile flurry" is really the most accurate description of what it does.

I decided to cut the iterative attacks partly to avoid diluting the effectiveness of a full attack made while standing still, partly to streamline the attack bonuses (since they all become the same), and partly to make it a more interesting middle-ground option rather than a 100% improvement over a stationary full attack.  I also kind of dislike increasing the number of attacks (and hence dice rolls) since they just slow down play.

The thought to use a reduced number of attacks combined with the movement came to me after reading something Tempest Stormwind said about the benefits of Snap Kick (compared to a flurry of blows), since having a kind of reduced flurry with movement seems like an ideal answer.

I could potentially cut the 10 ft. movement between attacks, since that's a little less important (it spreads the attacks out more through the movement which gives a better feel and emphasizes the monk's mobility rather than just moving up to unleash a full barrage from one spot).  It could probably use something against attacks of opportunity, though that's potentially covered by ranks in Tumble and it allows a tactical choice between full speed movement and half-speed tumbling.

Putting it at 7th level puts it just after one of the normal points for dropping out of monk, while being at the same general level as where you get an extra iterative attack in a full BAB class.  It also makes it seem like a better level for special abilities than just having wholeness of body.



The name really isnt' too terribly important. I just wanted to bridge flurry with the monk's movement bonus. I hated how they clashed so obviously. Now being a skirmishing monk is not so bad (kind of also helps the scout/monk combo...)

My mobile doesn't require that you spread the attacks out, but it gives the option to do so.

I really tried to tie my monks abilities to the speed increase. As you get faster, you are harder to hit, etc...

I do like the idea of trying to extend the class beyond 6th level...
My mobile doesn't require that you spread the attacks out, but it gives the option to do so.

I'd say a big part of my own decision was that it just feels strange to perform the full attack routine at one point in the middle of the movement.  It's kind of the same as the way pounce is weird to imagine when you've got someone making all those attacks with a single sword, instead of something like a dire lion leaping on someone and striking with all its natural weapons simultaneously.
I do like the idea of trying to extend the class beyond 6th level...

Well, extending the class beyond the 2nd-level dip by placing your mobile flurry at 3rd is the same sort of principle.  Obviously that's different for the spirit monk, since she's got ki prediction coming in at 3rd, with mobile flurry waiting until 7th.

The kraken stirs. And ten billion sushi dinners cry out for vengeance. - Good Omens

Co-Author of the Dreamfane, Euralden Eye, Fulminating Crab, Gajuisan Crawler, Gruesome LurkerIronglass Rose, Sheengrass Swarm, Spryjack, Usunag, and Warp Drifter, and author of the Magmal Horror from Force of Nature.

My most popular campaign item; for all your adventuring convenience.
Zauber's Mutable Rod: This rod has a number of useful functions that make it easier to live in the wilderness. It is made of polished wood, with five studlike buttons on one end. Each button produces a different effect when pressed. Unless otherwise noted, the rod’s functions have no limit on the number of times they can be employed. When button 1 is pressed, one end of the rod produces a small flame, equivalent to a candle. When button 2 is pressed, the rod unfolds into a two-person tent, complete with bedrolls and warm blankets. When button 3 is pressed, the rod becomes a one-handed hammer, suitable for pounding pitons into a wall. When button 4 is pressed, the rod becomes a sturdy iron spade. When button 5 is pressed, the rod becomes a wooden bucket able to hold 2 gallons of liquid. Once per day, it can be commanded to fill with fresh water. If the rod is seriously damaged or broken in any of its alternate forms (button 2, 3, 4, or 5), it reverts to its basic rod form and cannot be activated for 24 hours. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Rod, minor creation; Price 375 gp; Weight 2 lb.
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