Kalteros-Drow too powerful?

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Last night I played Drow and my girlfriend played the Heroes. In the end I didn't lose a single mini and my starting Drider in combination with Kalteros proved to be too powerful for her since the monstrosity could simply steal the treasure nearest to her, although she started the game, while taking minor damage from her Archers. The rest of her band had Speed 5 and only the halfling had 6. With 100 HP and the Kalteros backup the Drider was almost undefeatable because any mini that got too close was ambushed by my Drow House Guard and the Spiders (if they weren't collecting more treasure at the moment). By the time she could muster a Dragon Knight it was far too late to outrace me since my Spiders sat on the remaining treasure tokens while the Drider, Drow House Guard and Priestess finished her other minis.

Since Kalteros let me draw so many cards through the Drider, I had almost always more cards than her (the Priestess and two Schemes helped also) + the Drider's high level let me play cards she couldn't match. Speed 10 is sooo crazy. I never had the feeling she could win after I drew my first few cards through Kalteros.

Anyone else have any similar experience or an idea how to beat that starting combo without a Dragon Knight or Copper Dragon?
Drider only speed 10 if it doesn't start adjascent to enemies. Speed is only 1 if it starts adjascent.

And whilst it has high HP for it's level it has low attack. Just mob the thing.

Also you don't need a high level character {Dragon Knight. Copper Dragon} to play the big cards (e.g. Killing strike) multiple smaller creatures can "assist" to have the same effect.
She never got close to it. So no crowding was possible. I assassinated her low HP characters and let the slow dwarves alone in the dark, until I could crowd them myself.
Drider only speed 10 if it doesn't start adjascent to enemies. Speed is only 1 if it starts adjascent.

And whilst it has high HP for it's level it has low attack. Just mob the thing.

Also you don't need a high level character {Dragon Knight. Copper Dragon} to play the big cards (e.g. Killing strike) multiple smaller creatures can "assist" to have the same effect.



Pretty sure the Drider has Scuttle, so it can shift its speed.  I was under the impression that this allows it to move away at its speed of 10.
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No, it has a Speed of 1, when it starts its movement next to an enemy mini. Scuttle simply lets it move past enemies instead of stopping as soon as it is adjacent to one.

Today I won with the Heroes against a 1st turn Drider with Kalteros as the leader, but I had a Copper Dragon and very soon a Cleric to back it up. I won 1:0. Yes, one more damage and I would have been dead meat. The Drider lunged at my Dragon on turn 2 and nearly killed it with some backup from the Wizard. The Drider did pin me down while the rest of the gang went treasure hunting.
I'll be honest.  I like Kalteros because he looks cool and starting at a 9 in creature power is pretty sexy, but I think the Heroes got a bit more going on for them.  Slow?  Sure I guess.  But their 2 power dwarven defenders are awesome.  Their fours, I feel, dominate.  The War Wizard is a power house.  On top of that there Killing Strike card can be used by 2 creatures WITHOUT assistance where as there isn't a creature on the drow side that can use Sneak Attack without help.

They have more HP AND they hit harder.  The drow house guards have a ranged attack, sure, but its five.  I like the V guy for his double movement but the girl starts out with 6 order cards and she can dump one a turn if she doesn't like it.  Thats just nice.  Kalteros has to give up 2 morale and two standard actions JUST to catch up to her in that regard.

So I don't think he's too powerful yet.

At least out of the box.  My wife and I have played both sides, swapping back and forth, and found that its been pretty even mostly.  I always play the guy though since ... well ... I'm a guy.  That's just how I am.
I actually have to disagree. While the whole outdrawing + Starting 9 is good, I have a much better time with the +2 Movement to Spiders/Drows Commander and basiclly doing a "Zergling Rush" the field for the Treasure/swarming to attack.
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Out of the box there are several reasons why Kalteros is superior to Heroes:

1. During setup he effectively reduces one of your tough guys by 2 Levels. Compare the Drider to the Human Ranger and you know where I am coming from.Wink

2. The Drow box creatures all have access to DEX. There are only 7 cards that have limited access, 4 of them having Affinity. The remaining 3 belong to the Priestess and draw more cards. In combination with Kalteros that means much more to choose from during combat.

3. The Heroes have 4 characters without STR access. The Elf Archers (DEX) only have access to 9 cards, 4 of them (Healing Potion, Recoil, Level Up and Saving Throw) not really being their cards of choice. The Halfling Sneak (DEX) has access to 11 cards, BUT he has no ranged attack, meaning that he can't use the only DEX orders in his deck (What the heck?!?!?!). In the end you only want to use Into The Fray and Behind Enemy Lines with him, if any. The War Wizard (INT) has access to 15 cards, although you probably won't use Level Up on him, which leaves him with 14 playables. 8 non-STR cards mean that 5 of your characters have no access to them at all + 4 cards have Requirements that make it impossible for some of your tanks to use them (no Heroic Surge for your Copper Dragon or Earth Guardian).

These facts should lead to a higher win percentage of the Drow box.
In my experience the Drow box does indeed have a higher win percentage and mostly due to more often being able to use Order cards in hand. I've been stuck multiple times as a Hero of Cormyr with Order cards I simply can't use (their female commander helps somewhat in that regard).Having said that, I've seen just as many Drow female commander wins as Drow male commander, both have excellent abilities and I wouldn't say one is clearly better than the other. They just play different.
Id say the Cormyr box is more dependent on smart formations. Your Order cards are less likely to have the attribute your character needs, but adjacent characters can tap to lend levels and attributes. Ive seen some Cormyr bands, even small ones, form adjacent groups that are almost unbreakable by drow opposition.
Id say the Cormyr box is more dependent on smart formations. Your Order cards are less likely to have the attribute your character needs, but adjacent characters can tap to lend levels and attributes. Ive seen some Cormyr bands, even small ones, form adjacent groups that are almost unbreakable by drow opposition.



Assisting creatures must also have the required attribute for a given Order card, so they can lend levels, but not attributes.
Well, a smart Drow commander can break almost any formation from the Heroes starter box, unless the Heroes commander has some lucky draws. The main problem is, that most Drow characters have access to defensive cards on your hand, while the Heroes very often don't have the right cards at hand to save themselves. The bane of the Drow is the Cleric who can keep your characters alive long enough to save precious cards.
My opponent and I have the Drow 3-0 vs. Cormyr. Last night in the final game I won without losing a creature and had 11 morale left. I had 6 creatures either in or adjacent to his starting area.

Granted, I started with a good draw, but still.

I hope it's just the learning curve, and not a huge imbalance. Even before playing for the first time, Aliszandra's ability to make all Spiders and Drow move an extra 2 seems enormously powerful compared to all the other commanders. I suspect it should have been one or the other and not both.

In addition to the base movement, the Drow also have much more powerful movement cards than Cormyr. And they have scuttle. It's just really, really hard for me to see how they aren't always going to get more treasure and always be able to get favorable ratios of individual combats-- 2:1 and 3:1 pretty frequently.

The Drow only have 3 cards in their deck that they're ever going to have trouble playing. They have 3 WIS cards and only 1 creature with WIS. Other than that, the only other 4 cards that aren't DEX based are Web, which can also be played by any Spider; and Faerie Fire, which can also be played by any Drow.

In contrast, Cormyr has 6 INT cards, and only 2 creatures that have INT. One of those 2 creatures is the Copper Dragon, which is the most expensive creature to deploy in the game and which will often be better off using its base attack than spending a standard action to cast a spell. They also have 2 copies of Quick Shot, which can only be used by 3 Creatures, 2 of which you'd ideally like to get out very early and treat as expendable.

If all of this were compensated for by the Drow having fewer hit points or significantly few attack/defense cards, that would be one thing, but this isn't the case, and in fact the Drow have advantages in both areas. Hit point wise, Cormyr has 660 hit points, the Drow have 690. Card wise, Cormyr has 8 defense, 10 offense, and 2 that are both whilst the Drow have 8 defense, 14 offense, and 2 that are both. Cormyr does have the Cleric, which can certainly be a good defensive piece, probably cancelling out the 4 extra offense cards the Drow have if you draw it.

Base ability wise, Cormyr probably has a small advantage; it's difficult to compare directly. Cormyr has 4 creatues that don't have any special ability at all to 5 for the Drow, so the remaining 8 would have to have very large advantages over the Drow in order to add up to anything significant, and just eyeing them non-numerically I don't see how you could argue that they have that.

All in all, I just don't see how these factions could be balanced; but my opponent and I are only 3 games in, so maybe there's some subtle advantage Cormyr has that compensates for these advantages (the movement advantage being massively in the Drow's favor).

I think you're right that Cormyr usually gets less treasure, but I've grown less and less concerned with that as I've continued to learn the game.  Cormyr should always get its closest treasure, and if it gets the Earth Guardian it can contest via burrowing.  But I've won my fair share of games down a few morale, and Cormyr has a lot of long game and comeback potential.  Rhynserra is clearly the correct commander pick for out-of-the-box armies (IMO): she starts with extra cards over either of the Drow commanders and her ability is very strong in the base decks where card deadness is a concern.  Cormyr also has just better stats on most of their big guys than the Drow.  Of the Drow creatures, only the Umber Hulk does more than 20 base damage, whereas Cormyr has a significant component of 30's including the War Wizard's preposterous range 10 30 damage attack, and the Dragon Knight does 40, which is pretty absurd.  Add to that the fact that (IMO) Str's attack cards are more consistently good (though I think Piercing Strike is probably an exception) and Cormyr's base box can just kick out a boatload of damage.  Oh, and they don't have the worst card in the game, Fire Trap, and if they did they could cycle it.  So at least there's that.  Cormyr also has a lot of slides, which are very strong, and can do a lot to counter Drow mobility.  They're great because you can push your guys into position, or push enemy guys into groups, which the Human deck has a lot of ways to punish.

That said, I think Cormyr is maybe a little weaker overall, and it certainly is less straightforward.  The Drow deck is a lot closer to a single cohesive entity out of the box, and if you just sorta wander all your guys off after targets of opportunity or treasure, the Drow creatures will do a lot better, because they rely less on synergy and can reform much more easily, especially under Malistros, who is indeed quite saucy (and IMO usually better than Kalteros).  Funnily enough I think Kalteros is a better commander for a primarily Cormyr army than for a primarily Drow one because a lot of the Cormyr monsters need friends to work best.

I think that leads into the final thing: as NinjaDog said, Cormyr really needs smart formations that support each other well.  This often means you don't get as much treasure - though those little level 1 elf archers are fantastic at going off and grabbing some - but if you get a Dwarf Cleric-based block, or a reasonably well supported Dragon Knight, or a War Wizard with blockers, going, you're going to gobble back the morale edge in a hurry.  The Cormyr warband is just going to spit out a lot more damage more reliably than the Drow one, since it doesn't need to use cards to get over 20, and if you mob up to fight it, or it can push you around to mob you up, fireballs and exploding bolts just push the total damage through the roof.  The only way Cormyr should lose a longer game with base boxes is if the Drow get Blessing of Lolth up in a hurry and Cormyr doesn't get Arcane Ritual going.
Cormyr may be better at killing with single minis in a hurry, but Drow can outmanoeuvre them pretty easily and regroup. Shift 6 - Attack - Shift 6 - Move. As soon as one piece of the Cormyr puzzle is gone, the whole picture starts to fall apart. Only the Dragon Knight and Copper Dragon can stand their ground on their own, should something go wrong. Piercing Strike simply thrashes any plan Cormyr commanders might have come up with.

Arcane Ritual isn't that good, IMHO. It glues your minis to the magic circles, which isn't good because neither the War Wizard nor the Copper Dragon want to sit around, while the Drow harass the rest of your troops.

Rhynserra is by far the better commander, that is correct. Why? Because she lets you dig deeper into your deck. Likewise Kalteros is the better commander for Drow, because he increases your cards, which is also significantly better than cycling cards. This game, as any other card based game, is about having the card advantage. Morale can be diminished very quickly by superior cards, so Kalteros power is always to be used, if you can.

I disagree on Kalteros actually, his card draw is fine but not that amazing.  He starts with just 4 cards as opposed to Malistros's 5 or Rhynserra's 6, and only actual Drow figures can turn loot into cards, not spiders, which are often the best treasure grabbers.  His power doesn't work with the Giant Spider, Demonweb Spiders (x2), Shadow Mastiff, or Umber Hulk, and he only gets 3 starting units, so you can end up having to wait a while to use it.  There are situations where everything goes right and it is amazing, and it's admittedly quite a nice power with the Drider, but the Drider's a one of and is the only model that's both a Drow and particularly speedy.  So in the base Drow set it's not consistently amazing.  You need to loot twice to be better off than Malistros, or three times to have the edge over Rhynserra.  It can happen, but it certainly won't always happen.  Also your starting morale sucks.  He's a fine commander in the starting box, but Malistros is more consistent, and he's a strong commander with custom warbands, but mostly for the 9 LD.

And there will certainly be games where the Drow draw all the Spring Attacks and Shadowy Amubshes and Cormyr gets bad cards and struggles; that's kind of the nature of playing with the basic decks.  But there will also be games where Cormyr gets some absurd Behind Enemy Lines play, or draws Shove Aside + Into the Fray to counter the mobility with one guy and then shove the victim back into range of the rest, or just gets an early degenerate Dwarf Cleric situation going.  Both of the factions are cooking with a lot of gas out of the box. 
I think it is a question of perspective. The combination of Leadership 9 and the extra card draw through treasure looting lets him truely shine. So he effectively has 2 levels more to go looting. The worst creature hand for him would be the 3 Spiders, the Umber Hulk and the Mastiff + 1 Drow, if he played his complete hand in setup, what happens quite often. That still leaves me with a Drow to draw cards. I see the Demonweb Spiders more as treasure thiefs on enemy terrain. My Drow usually do very fine turning the dear treasure at my doorstep into utility cards. Especially the House Guards and the Priestess excel in this part, as they usually don't do much fighting until something has to be delivered the killing blow.

So, I grant you that his power and starting cards are not very impressive, but his Leadership is truely nasty and gives his cards a great boost, turning his power into a winner.


I think that leads into the final thing: as NinjaDog said, Cormyr really needs smart formations that support each other well.  This often means you don't get as much treasure - though those little level 1 elf archers are fantastic at going off and grabbing some - but if you get a Dwarf Cleric-based block, or a reasonably well supported Dragon Knight, or a War Wizard with blockers, going, you're going to gobble back the morale edge in a hurry.  The Cormyr warband is just going to spit out a lot more damage more reliably than the Drow one, since it doesn't need to use cards to get over 20, and if you mob up to fight it, or it can push you around to mob you up, fireballs and exploding bolts just push the total damage through the roof.  The only way Cormyr should lose a longer game with base boxes is if the Drow get Blessing of Lolth up in a hurry and Cormyr doesn't get Arcane Ritual going.



Hmmm.  You've played so many more times than I have, and I know from painful experience how good of a gamer you are, so I believe you.  I'm playing again tonight, so this time I'll take Cormyr and see if I can make it work.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me about the formations is how easily (it seems) the Drow can blow up a key piece at will.  Last game my opponent had both a Cleric and a Defender as part of a group of 4 creatures, and it mattered not a jot; I simply surrounded the Defender with like 5 pieces and killed it easily, draining him of defensive cards and even having him cower some.  Oh, and while doing splash damage to boot.  I think one of my creatures moved 18 squares to get into position.  

Maybe always having backs to the wall?  No one has suggested it so that's not the solution, I guess.  Hopefully I'll figure it out tonight.  

I think it is a question of perspective. The combination of Leadership 9 and the extra card draw through treasure looting lets him truely shine. So he effectively has 2 levels more to go looting. The worst creature hand for him would be the 3 Spiders, the Umber Hulk and the Mastiff + 1 Drow, if he played his complete hand in setup, what happens quite often. That still leaves me with a Drow to draw cards. I see the Demonweb Spiders more as treasure thiefs on enemy terrain. My Drow usually do very fine turning the dear treasure at my doorstep into utility cards. Especially the House Guards and the Priestess excel in this part, as they usually don't do much fighting until something has to be delivered the killing blow.

So, I grant you that his power and starting cards are not very impressive, but his Leadership is truely nasty and gives his cards a great boost, turning his power into a winner.



Sure, I think all the commanders are good, I just think Kalteros is not as good for the starting Drow army as Malistros, and that his draw ability is not as strong as it initially looks.  It's certainly a real ability that does things, I just don't think he's broken, and I've still had more success with the initial drow army with Malistros.
Don't get me wrong! I don't think that Kalteros is broken, but in a box vs. box battle he is extremely powerful, if you have a Drider on your starting hand, since he practically turns it into a Level 2 creature, that can gain you a lot of new order cards, as well as kill minor enemy models on the spot. That is what this thread initially was all about.


Hmmm.  You've played so many more times than I have, and I know from painful experience how good of a gamer you are, so I believe you.  I'm playing again tonight, so this time I'll take Cormyr and see if I can make it work.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me about the formations is how easily (it seems) the Drow can blow up a key piece at will.  Last game my opponent had both a Cleric and a Defender as part of a group of 4 creatures, and it mattered not a jot; I simply surrounded the Defender with like 5 pieces and killed it easily, draining him of defensive cards and even having him cower some.  Oh, and while doing splash damage to boot.  I think one of my creatures moved 18 squares to get into position.  

Maybe always having backs to the wall?  No one has suggested it so that's not the solution, I guess.  Hopefully I'll figure it out tonight.  




It's definitely an acquired skill.  My overall experience has been that if someone learns DC as their first skirmish-style game, they think Cormyr is the better faction because they don't understand the value of maneuver, but once they get better, or if they learn from a strong wargame background, they think the Drow are until they figure out the more difficult Cormyr stuff.  The Drow do have two cards that I think are borderline broken (Uncanny Dodge and Piercing Stike) and so I think ultimately they're slightly favored, but no worse than good vs. bad Battleground factions so I think it's in the acceptable range.

One thing to remember is that DC is unusual for a skirmish game because it's not as straightforward in the way momentum works as games where you only get your starting guys (like BG).  Because you get to respawn your guys, you only have to worry about individual losses if you're low on morale or otherwise important, like the Dwarf Cleric or a well-positioned War Wizard.   Cards and morale are both in many ways more valuable than dudes, because you only get one card per turn, whereas it's unlikely you'll run out of creature cards before the game ends.  If Cormyr can trade morale for cards by letting basically their whole first wave get picked off by Drow shenanigans, that's often a good deal.  The important figures are the ones that provide long-term advantage: War Wizard and Dwarf Cleric.  Other than that, everything's expendable, the benefit of the formation isn't that your guys don't die, it's that they have to spend more resources on it, or kill the less important ones.  Dwarven Defenders, for example, are basically redshirts: it isn't worth trying to save them if it costs you good or important cards or much morale, but they can still be really frustrating for opponents because they make it hard to kill the figures that are important, and they get in the way.  Cormyr's basic figures are by and large just better in a straight up fight than the Drow ones, especially the 3+ drops, so the plan is to exploit that.  Run out their cards, pick the right battles, and eventually pull it out. 
I disagree that Uncanny Dodge is broken, since it costs an extra card and is thus going to usually be a losing trade. It is a card you want to have access to so you can cancel out a Killing Strike or something like that, but it's not one you wish to choke on too many copy of.

Piercing Strike certainly is an important card just because it will allow you to finish off an important piece without the risk of the opponent cowering, but otherwise a mere +10 damage melee is sort of crap.

And I have to say, Morale is cheap compared to guys on the board. Any time you lose a guy you lose *at least* one activation worth of that creature's level, as it won't spawn until the end of your next turn (and if you're deep in enemy territory, you probably lose more than one). Maybe it's just because I come from a Magic the Gathering background, where we learn really quickly that Life points are a ressource and that losing them doesn't matter unless it's the last one you have, but I probably spend well over 50% of my Morale cowering rather than from losing pieces.
Maybe it's just because I come from a Magic the Gathering background, where we learn really quickly that Life points are a ressource and that losing them doesn't matter unless it's the last one you have, but I probably spend well over 50% of my Morale cowering rather than from losing pieces.



A little different in DC though.... unlike magic, you have a restriction on what you can put on the board. Losing a creature is sometimes necessary in order to get a more effective piece on the board sooner. Timing and placement are key; spending morale is something you should only do when you believe it will help you attain / retain advantage.

Yeah, I've been playing Magic forever, and morale resembles life total in some ways, but it's certainly not a perfect analogue.  If nothing else, trading life for board in Magic is a long-term strategy because you're going to gain more from having them on the board throughout the game.  You're right you lose an activation in DC for losing a guy, and that's certainly a relevant part of figuring out when to cower and when not to, but it's nowhere near as important as MTG; activations aren't a super limited resource because you get them every turn from game rules rather than having to spend anything on them, so losing one is not massively important in general.  (There are certainly contexts in which a specific activation can be important; Cormyr is especially good at forcing these because someone who's positioned to threaten a Cleric or Wizard is very valuable.)  Whereas losing a creature in Magic is a permanent loss of the card and you don't get to replace either the card or the mana you spent on it - in DC you basically automatically regain both.

There are also two important differences between Morale and MTG Lfe just in how they work in the rules.  First, compared to MTG life loss, morale loss is pretty much inevitable, because you can't realistically stabilize the way you can in Magic.  Most Magic games, if they go long, have a point where one player starts to lose the ability to play effectively because he or she is running out of cards, at which point your life total becomes significantly less relevant.  I guess that could theoretically happen in DC because you could run out your opponent's creature deck, but I've never seen it happen.  Meanwhile even in the absence of cards, every creature can attack every turn, and if you don't run out your opponent's creature deck, they'll never run out of creatures to play.  So you can't just cower down to 1-2 morale and then figure you can lock the opponent out of the game; if they have a far bigger cushion, you'll probably still lose just because your opponent will manage to whittle down some dude and make you lose.  (Piercing Strike is really important here because it basically functions like an MTG burn spell to the face.)

Finally cowering itself means morale is more of a resource than life.  If you cower now, you hurt your ability to cower later, so there's a significant opportunity cost.  I've definitely won games because opponents burned a lot of morale on cowering a creature that was either a lost cause that turn or wasn't very important, and then couldn't afford to cower or aggressively take losses later, when it mattered much more.
Of course I'm talking level 3s and above, creatures that have extreme value and should probably never be allowed to die if at all possible as soon as you enter the midgame. Level 1 and 2s are expendable and are there only so you can have early activations for treasure hunting, then they should just be sacrificed to bring in your big guns. But once you're truly engaged it's almost suicidal to allow one of your creatures to die first if all you have on board are mid to large size creatures (and in the late game you won't even want to spawn lower level ones).


It's definitely an acquired skill.  My overall experience has been that if someone learns DC as their first skirmish-style game, they think Cormyr is the better faction because they don't understand the value of maneuver, but once they get better, or if they learn from a strong wargame background, they think the Drow are until they figure out the more difficult Cormyr stuff.  The Drow do have two cards that I think are borderline broken (Uncanny Dodge and Piercing Stike) and so I think ultimately they're slightly favored, but no worse than good vs. bad Battleground factions so I think it's in the acceptable range.




So I played Cormyr last night and won both games.  The first one was a 1-point nailbiter; the second was very comfortable. 

For the first game, I followed your advice about letting some inexpensive creatures die early in order to bring in more powerful pieces.  I did a lot less cowering than my opponent, and used less cards.  I didn't keep track but he had a pretty healthy morale advantage at one point, even with the cowering, because he was using more defensive cards, wasn't losing creatues, and got more treasure.  But as I rolled out the heavier pieces, I was gobbling up morale in big chunks.

The second game was less informative because I got about as perfect an opening couple of turns as you're ever going to get.  I started with Defender/Defender/Cleric, drew a Level Up almost immediately, and had a War Wizard in my hand by turn 3.  I kept all 4 of those creatures together and they were just about unassailable.  When I used Behind Enemy Lines to bring on an Earth Elemental, it was all over.  (I did unnecessarily cower to the tune of about 10 morale on the last turn just because I was paranoid about being able to do the last 2 points of damage, since he was out of cards so there was no way he could play any sort of retaliation.  But it was completely unnecessary, and if he had had even 1 card in hand, I wouldn't have risked it and would have won by around 14 morale.)

It's beginning to feel to me like maybe Cormyr is more susceptible to bad creature draws than the Drow.  Partly that's because the Drow can get 9 levels out during deployment, part of it is because of the easy synergy of cards/creatures, and part of it is because they're highly likely to draw at least one fast creature, allowing them to get ahead in the treasure race.  If that's the case, then I would expect Cormyr to do better in constructed than out of the box.

(Also, I'm 5-0 against my only opponent, so if that continues it's going to be harder to draw meaningful conclusions.  But he's a lifelong gamer, so it's not unlikely that this is either just luck or maybe that I'm just picking up on things faster, as opposed to a long term disparity.)

Glad to hear my ramblings were helpful!

I agree about Cormyr being more draw dependent out of the box in general - it has more going on, both in creatures and keywords.  Case in point: you actually can't Behind Enemy Lines the Earth Guardian because he's not an Adventurer, though it sounds like it wasn't critical to the game.

But yeah, I've found Cormyr is definitely strong and fun, but it has a lot of interacting themes in the box, which means it can have draw issues in the starter battle, and makes it harder to build lists for constructed, though good ones remain good.
If you ever want to see Cormyr administer a beating, look out for Elemental/Half-Orc Thug/Copper Dragon. Late game expensive setup, obviously, but man... Slide opposing piece in position, AOE, AOE. Hurts.
Yesterday I beat the crap out of the Drow with heavy artillery and a Dragon Knight. 2 Elf Archers, a H-O Thug and a War Wizard were too much for the dark fellas to advance, so I slowly grinded them to death and then: BOOM! Fireball Trap for the win!Cool
you'll forgive, but i really don't see what's wrong with the drow faction being superior.
>>< drow ><<
you'll forgive, but i really don't see what's wrong with the drow faction being superior.



hah!

The more I review the comments on this discussion here and elsewhere, the more I agree that the Drow are "better" out of the box due to overall synergy of the set. The order cards are more universally useful to its setup. Cormyr has strong pieces though, and it still takes a crafty drow player to deal with the likes or War Wizard and Dragon Knight.
The thing with Cormyr is that I think it has more variance in its Order cards. I believe it has a lot of cards that are much stronger, but the deck is diluted into many attributes and it also has cards that are inferior to the Drow cards.

I think if you pick up two Drow sets against two Cormyr sets, bands made from those are a lot closer in power levels.
The thing with Cormyr is that I think it has more variance in its Order cards. I believe it has a lot of cards that are much stronger, but the deck is diluted into many attributes and it also has cards that are inferior to the Drow cards.

I think if you pick up two Drow sets against two Cormyr sets, bands made from those are a lot closer in power levels.

Even out of the box, you're allowed to remove 6 cards from your deck, taking it down to 30.  I think that would help a lot. It might be interesting to compile a list of reasonable choices for removing 6 cards.   

For myself, I'd probably take out 6 INT cards.  If I get the War Wizard, his 30 point ranged attack is plenty good enough on its own to make me happy I drew him; and if I draw him, the lack of INT cards just means I'm getting cards that are useful for my other deployed creatures, so it might not be any loss at all.  
The thing with Cormyr is that I think it has more variance in its Order cards. I believe it has a lot of cards that are much stronger, but the deck is diluted into many attributes and it also has cards that are inferior to the Drow cards.

I think if you pick up two Drow sets against two Cormyr sets, bands made from those are a lot closer in power levels.

Even out of the box, you're allowed to remove 6 cards from your deck, taking it down to 30.  I think that would help a lot. It might be interesting to compile a list of reasonable choices for removing 6 cards.   

For myself, I'd probably take out 6 INT cards.  If I get the War Wizard, his 30 point ranged attack is plenty good enough on its own to make me happy I drew him; and if I draw him, the lack of INT cards just means I'm getting cards that are useful for my other deployed creatures, so it might not be any loss at all.  

Of course, Arcane Ritual is probably one of the strongest cards in the set... It's much much better than Lolth's Blessing for instance, since it gives you the card at the end of the activation instead of during the Refresh phase, meaning the card replaces itself immediately, and in fact if you activate your War Wizard first you get the extra card to use with the rest of your team. The only disadvantage is almost non-existent given a ranged attack (and you can also play it on the Copper Dragon, so that it is backed by a LOT of HPs). And outside of Scheme (whose card advantage is a one-shot deal) these are the only two 'engine' cards available right now.

Of course, Arcane Ritual is probably one of the strongest cards in the set... It's much much better than Lolth's Blessing for instance, since it gives you the card at the end of the activation instead of during the Refresh phase, meaning the card replaces itself immediately, and in fact if you activate your War Wizard first you get the extra card to use with the rest of your team. The only disadvantage is almost non-existent given a ranged attack (and you can also play it on the Copper Dragon, so that it is backed by a LOT of HPs). And outside of Scheme (whose card advantage is a one-shot deal) these are the only two 'engine' cards available right now.



I'm not entirely convinced Arcane Ritual is stronger than Lolth's Blessing since it ties you down to a Magic Circle square. The guaranteed card from Lolth's just seems stronger than the conditional you get from ritual, especially since  the Magic Circles are in rather tricky to defend positions.

Of course, Arcane Ritual is probably one of the strongest cards in the set... It's much much better than Lolth's Blessing for instance, since it gives you the card at the end of the activation instead of during the Refresh phase, meaning the card replaces itself immediately, and in fact if you activate your War Wizard first you get the extra card to use with the rest of your team. The only disadvantage is almost non-existent given a ranged attack (and you can also play it on the Copper Dragon, so that it is backed by a LOT of HPs). And outside of Scheme (whose card advantage is a one-shot deal) these are the only two 'engine' cards available right now.



I'm not entirely convinced Arcane Ritual is stronger than Lolth's Blessing since it ties you down to a Magic Circle square. The guaranteed card from Lolth's just seems stronger than the conditional you get from ritual, especially since  the Magic Circles are in rather tricky to defend positions.



Arcane Circle is better because it's an INT card. The creatures that can use it all have available ranged attacks and can therefore gain cards while still being useful. Drow Priestess basically is a waste of 3 Leadership points if you use Lolth's Blessing, because it's not even as good as Scheme until you've spent three turns without her dying... knowing she'll be a huge target.