I'm blown away at how bad 2HG players are

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Let me start by saying 2HG is my favorite mode. It's almost all I play. And in the hundreds of games I've played, I can count on one hand the number of skilled players I've encountered. I don't understand how the skill bell curve could be skewed so badly. Theoretically, there should be only a small portion of players on the far left, yet playing it, I can't help wonder if 93% of the players have any idea what MtG is. On PS3, there are 20k ranked 2HG players, and I find an "average skill" player once ever 20-30 games.

I know DotP is made to attract newer players, but holy crap, I am honestly surprised every time I see a player play his spells on his second main phase or instants on their opponents phase. You can have an Erratic Portal out, and they will still tap out their lands before combat. In all my time playing 2HG, I have only ONCE seen someone tap Vedalken Entrancer after their opponent's combat phase, and I've NEVER seen anyone play a Crippling Chill during their opponent's phase.
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I feel like the overall average playerbase is "worse" in 2013, but I'm not sure if it's because of the much more improved and varied deck pools. I've run into many untrimmed or poorly trimmed lists, more than usual in older games, which I assume are much harder for the average "new" Duels player to figure out. On top of this, there seem to be many players who don't actually know how to pilot some of the more combo-oriented or control lists in the game.
Agreed!! I find that whenever I start a match and the opponents are playing Goblins and Odric I can pretty much tell how little skill they have because its all go go go and absolutley NO THOUGHT involved with those 2 decks especially together!!
 When I play I like to use decks that need some thinking!! Not just ... lets throw a buncha little critters out there and let them gnaw your face!!!!!  Yell
I've run into many untrimmed or poorly trimmed lists

Yeah, I see more decks at 75+ cards than I do at 60. Unfortunately I still sometimes get a false hope when I see 60ish card decks that I've encountered a decent player. I'm usually wrong.

there seem to be many players who don't actually know how to pilot some of the more combo-oriented or control lists in the game.

I think that's the biggest issue. CW and OD work so well in 2HG, but still, the vast majority of players will just click on any card with a yellow border, throw away counters and removal at the first card they can hit.

The worst 2HG players, in my opinion, are the ones who treat 2HG as if it's two people attacking the same opponents, not two people working together. The people who are always totally oblivious to what their team mates have/are playing. Trying to play 2HG with randoms is just ridiculous.
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I personally think that 2 groups of players are common in 2HG:

Friends - I've frequently encountered a team of skilled players, only to at a later moment be paired up with one of them (vs the other), and he's suddenly playing terribly (as in: he first always played spells in MP2 to preserve mana for instants, but suddenly he always taps himself out on MP1, as if he's trying to hide he's not letting the opponent win. Or suddenly using Instants completely wrong when he used to make skillful decisions. Etc). Basically, players who're trying to have their friend win not by teaming up with them, but by playing against them making terrible moves so the other player kinda has to do everything on his own.

Legitimate bad players - Very likely, 2HG is used by actually bad players because they know there's a good chance their teammate can carry them to victory, something that's unavailable in other modes.
most of the better players go 1v1, because they don't have to rely on a likely incompetent partner.

That is the main reason I don't play 2HG almost ever, even with friends.  The games tend to be bad, even with a good partner, because odds are at least 1 of the opponents will be terribad. 

Well I find less skill is needed and more luck anyways. I've left games where I lost feeling cheated because no matter how good I played with what I was given a crappy player making bad discision wins because they draw the "god hand" or simply I drew land 5 turns in a row while my opponent did not.

So that goes with partners too. Sometimes you get lucky and get a good partner.

Let me start by saying 2HG is my favorite mode. It's almost all I play. And in the hundreds of games I've played, I can count on one hand the number of skilled players I've encountered. I don't understand how the skill bell curve could be skewed so badly. Theoretically, there should be only a small portion of players on the far left, yet playing it, I can't help wonder if 93% of the players have any idea what MtG is. On PS3, there are 20k ranked 2HG players, and I find an "average skill" player once ever 20-30 games. I know DotP is made to attract newer players, but holy crap, I am honestly surprised every time I see a player play his spells on his second main phase or instants on their opponents phase. You can have an Erratic Portal out, and they will still tap out their lands before combat. In all my time playing 2HG, I have only ONCE seen someone tap Vedalken Entrancer after their opponent's combat phase, and I've NEVER seen anyone play a Crippling Chill during their opponent's phase.



Use two controllers and go beast mode.

I've run into many untrimmed or poorly trimmed lists

Yeah, I see more decks at 75+ cards than I do at 60. Unfortunately I still sometimes get a false hope when I see 60ish card decks that I've encountered a decent player. I'm usually wrong.


Heh, yea a lot of times a 60ish deck means they just started unlocking that one.
Keep in mind this is what, six weeks old? Give it three months and most of the bad players will have wandered off somewhere else. Sure, a few will come back for the DLC but not near as many.

Wizards: If it isn't game design, we can't do it right. Frankly, we're kind of shaky on the game design sometimes too.

I agree the level of skill in 2hg is low. I also only play this mode when I play Duels. To help counter this I tend to only play "player matches" and only when the room creator has their partner set to private. This means that at least the two people know each other and will most likely be talking to each other. Also I tend to see more skilled players in "player matches" then in "ranked matches".

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most of the better players go 1v1, because they don't have to rely on a likely incompetent partner.

That is the main reason I don't play 2HG almost ever, even with friends.  The games tend to be bad, even with a good partner, because odds are at least 1 of the opponents will be terribad. 




^This so much. The reason why there are a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing in 2HG is because skilled players have to deal with the liability of a random team mate. I like the premise, but I don't play 2HG unless I know and trust my teammate to make logical moves, and know how to pull off combos.
So, lots of new players encountered in a new game designed to attract new players? Seems legit.

Whenever I encounter new players I try to help them play better. Result? More friends and one of them actually is in the top 100 ranked now. I find that the best praise possible for this game.
New players are great.  That's why the Xbox has unranked play, so they can be new.  When you jump into ranked, I expect you to have to have brain activity.

Since I don't want to have to be partnered with a "new" player who hasn't bothered to learn how to play before jumping into the ranked scene, I avoid it.  Seems like a reasonable response. 
Unfortunately, in the PS3 version, all matches are ranked. There are no ranked/unranked options. I can't for the life of me figure out why.
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Ugh. Geez. Look, at the risk of sounding all PC up in here, but the amount of haughtiness in this thread is mildly nauseating. Are these people actually bad/borderline retarded, or are they just inexperienced? I'd say the majority are the latter, like you and me once were. Sure, you're going to find morons in every game (see: people who loiter in open doorways in Halo/CoD/BF), and I'm certainly guilty of calling my fair share of players "bad" out of frustration and/or amusement. But I certainly don't hold myself up on some sort of God-pedestal like a lot of the posters appear to do here.

I want to see some videos from the lot of you who claim to be so far ahead of the curve skill-wise. I want to see you DOTP "experts" queue up in a limited 8-man on MODO, or go play in a GP or Starcity Open, and come back and tell me you didn't get absolutely eviscerated there. I want people within earshot of you to remark on what a "bad" player you are when it happens.

If you think it sucks that you can't join a 2HG game without getting partnered up with a "noob", well, that's on you. If you're playing 2HG without a dedicated partner, that's the risk you run. The world doesn't cater to you.

Have a wonderful day, "experts". <3

p.s. I can speculate as to why one would see more skilled players in Player Matches than Ranked. You're probably running into those people who want to "protect" their standing on the leaderboards by never playing Ranked again, but who still want to play DOTP. Seems within reason, no?
I've only played 2HG six times. Not everyone plays it and if you do free for all you might find yourself in one. it's a little disorienting especially with no mic. If team members talked it wouldn't be so bad. You and your team mate looking at each other's hand may have different strategies.

It's an OK mode but there are buddies that team up on combos, that's not really that much fun. Once one pair does that, it's not long before that's all it is. A race to get out the winning combo first. Can't be avoided I suppose.  When a new player comes up against this, it's not conducive to putting a lot of thought into playing 2HG.
Let me start by saying 2HG is my favorite mode. It's almost all I play. And in the hundreds of games I've played, I can count on one hand the number of skilled players I've encountered. I don't understand how the skill bell curve could be skewed so badly. Theoretically, there should be only a small portion of players on the far left, yet playing it, I can't help wonder if 93% of the players have any idea what MtG is. On PS3, there are 20k ranked 2HG players, and I find an "average skill" player once ever 20-30 games. I know DotP is made to attract newer players, but holy crap, I am honestly surprised every time I see a player play his spells on his second main phase or instants on their opponents phase. You can have an Erratic Portal out, and they will still tap out their lands before combat. In all my time playing 2HG, I have only ONCE seen someone tap Vedalken Entrancer after their opponent's combat phase, and I've NEVER seen anyone play a Crippling Chill during their opponent's phase.



I totally agree with this post.  I do see a lot of people not even mulligan to a good hand.  They just pick the first one.  They dont even bother to look at my hand to even coordinate a strategy.  I really like having a player that knows whats up.  Im lucky to have had a few good players play with me.  I feel your pain DistilledPoison,  I see others doing the exact same thing about Erratic Portal, Vedalken Entrancer, and any other tappable ability/instant spell to be played on the end step or before combat step of the opponent.  It is annoying.
I had a partner last night who had me join his part chat about half way through the game. He said he was concerned that I was holding back too much. He actually really began to irritate me as he was playing an 85 card deck, obviously not from the US and thought he was all that. I wanted to scream at him, but I didn't. If he had a nice trimmed deck we may have had a better chance.

I mean it was a good game however I know the people we were playing against were a set team because I had played them the game prior. Chandra & Liliana combo. I was playing Jace and my Partner was playing Liliana. I hate seeing that draw one a 4/1 grabage card that comes back from GY to hand when you play a swamp. So much mana for such garbage! Grrr, I mean it was so close until the opponent Liliana got exinguinate off two turns in a row, then we just died sad puppy.
BTW, 2HG teams who have accounts with identical screen names differentiated by a prefix or suffix, should only play ranked if you're into it like that. JMO
Who really cares about rank? Is someone going to "call you up to the bigs"? Are they handing out cash prizes to top 10? C'mon. Ranks mean nothing, esp. here where people can fix ranked games or get a good rank and stop playing. Or just players who play the top tier, boring-ass, deck du-jour (goblins here) over and over and over.

The only reason I play "Player Matches" on xbox is simply because when I'm trying to unlockcards and I've got most of them I get bored comp stomping and want to start play testing a deck in a more realistic environment while not repeatedly running into goblin non-sense.
I laugh when playing against clearly unskilled individuals, but I will also readily admit that sometimes it's the luck of the draw. I've won many matches playing off the top of my library and happening to pick the exact card needed to win, but I've always combined that with a well thought out game plan during the match.

What bothers me about 2HG now (and this has been discussed to death) is that 9 times out of 10, if we beat somebody we immediately leave the room and find another pair to play. Why? Because the defeated opponents switch to the life deck. I've started plenty of matches, seen that one white mana drop, the 6/6 flyer drop, and quit out. Have fun playing against AI, you might as well be playing campaign mode.

Now I'm not saying life deck is unbeatable, in fact I've beaten it (even beaten it when it was combined with mill and/or Flame) numerous times, the point is, many people who play that deck are looking for a cheap win. I even had someone lose a match, and I heard them say to their teammate "well you know what we gotta do now" which translated to "one of us has to play the life deck".

At least in 2012, even with dual color decks, yes, people could pull cheap moves like play Double Illusion when they lost too many times, but it seems like more and more now people are just blatantly looking for cheap wins instead of trying out the many combinations of decks that make for great matches. That's all that really bothers me about the 2HG players, the "oh no i'm backed into a corner so i better just play life deck" move is annoying
Who really cares about rank? Is someone going to "call you up to the bigs"? Are they handing out cash prizes to top 10? C'mon. Ranks mean nothing, esp. here where people can fix ranked games or get a good rank and stop playing. Or just players who play the top tier, boring-ass, deck du-jour (goblins here) over and over and over.

The only reason I play "Player Matches" on xbox is simply because when I'm trying to unlockcards and I've got most of them I get bored comp stomping and want to start play testing a deck in a more realistic environment while not repeatedly running into goblin non-sense.



Noobs scared to play against Talrand or Jace lol. Looking for Goblin Piledriver to get that easy win :D
The thing is while goblins are clearly strongest against either blue deck, and not even just because of Goblin Piledriver but rather sheer speed, they are strong against many decks and really don't have any bad matchups. Their worst matchups are probably Chandra followed by Liliana, and they could still beat either deck fairly easily if neither gets a good sweeper out in time. In their worst matchups, I'd say their odds are close to 50/50, maybe a little worse, while their best matchups are more like 90/10. It's got fast, mana efficient creatures to put any deck on early clock, it has ways to gain complete board advantage, it's got creature removal with Gempalm Incinerator and Arms Dealer, and then its got very worthy direct damage capabilities with Goblin Grenade and Shock. It's very well rounded, very mana cheap, and very easy to play. It's not as bad as beknighted, clearly, as it doesn't have 15% of the deck with "protection from" nor does it have ways to go full board wide indestructible, but it's still very strong.
Ugh. Geez. Look, at the risk of sounding all PC up in here, but the amount of haughtiness in this thread is mildly nauseating. Are these people actually bad/borderline retarded, or are they just inexperienced? I'd say the majority are the latter, like you and me once were. Sure, you're going to find morons in every game (see: people who loiter in open doorways in Halo/CoD/BF), and I'm certainly guilty of calling my fair share of players "bad" out of frustration and/or amusement. But I certainly don't hold myself up on some sort of God-pedestal like a lot of the posters appear to do here.

I want to see some videos from the lot of you who claim to be so far ahead of the curve skill-wise. I want to see you DOTP "experts" queue up in a limited 8-man on MODO, or go play in a GP or Starcity Open, and come back and tell me you didn't get absolutely eviscerated there. I want people within earshot of you to remark on what a "bad" player you are when it happens.

If you think it sucks that you can't join a 2HG game without getting partnered up with a "noob", well, that's on you. If you're playing 2HG without a dedicated partner, that's the risk you run. The world doesn't cater to you.

Have a wonderful day, "experts". <3

p.s. I can speculate as to why one would see more skilled players in Player Matches than Ranked. You're probably running into those people who want to "protect" their standing on the leaderboards by never playing Ranked again, but who still want to play DOTP. Seems within reason, no?

Legitimately BAD players.  Players who will sit there with 2 murders in hand, and kill the Jace's Phantasm that we can block with a Fog Bank, instead of the Dreamborn Muse milling us for 4-5 cards per round.

Guys who earthquake for 6 to kill a Dread, while we are at 10 life and have black creatures to block.  Guys who Flamebreak when only our side has ground creatures and they have flyers.  People who cast Stomphowler when the only artifact / enchantment is our own Icy or Blanchwood Armor.

Guys who keep 1 mana hands, with nothing but 4 cost creatures and spells AND play with about a billion cards.  All 'em.  The kind of deck bricks that indicate if there was no limit, they'd throw more in. 

I'm not worried about a guy who doesn't know what the PERFECT blocks would be, or the person who doesn't know to block with Fume Spitter then sac it onto someone else to save more damage.  That is just things you learn as you go.  I'm talking people who don't seem to even read their own cards, let alone those of their opponents and/or partner.

I do agree it WOULD be on me...if I played 2HG anymore.  I learned in 12 and now 13 to avoid it because of the random terribad player.  The question was, why are so many players in 2hg terrible?  The answer because good players have partners or don't even play it anymore.

As to how I would do in a live tournament setting?  Been there, done that.  Did pretty well.  I also waited until I knew how to play before putting myself in those situations.  I didn't go buy a Revised starter and a couple packs of Dark and go sign up.  Hell, most of the live players I played against then were terrible too, playing out of a card storage box, all 5 colors, every card they own.  I'm just too competitive to continue to play at that level.

It sucks for people on systems without ranked/unranked differentiation, because they just have to suck it up.  For the 360, I just wish they'd play some games, get a handle on at least 1 deck, and then start playing ranked.


 
So... mobius (plus a few others) had a pretty good point when he was pointing out the difference between "bad" players and inexperienced players (he also forgot to mention the category I tend to fall under, the "extremely unlucky" player). There's a wide range of people who play Duels, so joining games with random partners and opponents will always land you with the occasional inexperienced player that isn't versed with the fine art of stomping opponents in 2HG.

What I'm searching for at the moment are helpful resources for new Duels players that want to learn the ins and outs of winning at Magic. I recently saw an article on GameHead that did an awesome job explaining the pros and cons of different cards in the Born of Flame deck. I'm wondering if any of you have seen equally helpful resources out there. I'd like to gather them up and keep them in my arsenal of helpful links for new Duels fans.

 

Sean Gibbons

Associate Community Manager

Official MTG Twitter: @Wizards_Magic Official MTGO Twitter: @MagicOnline

So... mobius (plus a few others) had a pretty good point when he was pointing out the difference between "bad" players and inexperienced players (he also forgot to mention the category I tend to fall under, the "extremely unlucky" player). There's a wide range of people who play Duels, so joining games with random partners and opponents will always land you with the occasional inexperienced player that isn't versed with the fine art of stomping opponents in 2HG.

What I'm searching for at the moment are helpful resources for new Duels players that want to learn the ins and outs of winning at Magic. I recently saw an article on GameHead that did an awesome job explaining the pros and cons of different cards in the Born of Flame deck. I'm wondering if any of you have seen equally helpful resources out there. I'd like to gather them up and keep them in my arsenal of helpful links for new Duels fans.

 



thats if new players decide to come to the forums, hopefully they do. 
So... mobius (plus a few others) had a pretty good point when he was pointing out the difference between "bad" players and inexperienced players (he also forgot to mention the category I tend to fall under, the "extremely unlucky" player). There's a wide range of people who play Duels, so joining games with random partners and opponents will always land you with the occasional inexperienced player that isn't versed with the fine art of stomping opponents in 2HG.

What I'm searching for at the moment are helpful resources for new Duels players that want to learn the ins and outs of winning at Magic. I recently saw an article on GameHead that did an awesome job explaining the pros and cons of different cards in the Born of Flame deck. I'm wondering if any of you have seen equally helpful resources out there. I'd like to gather them up and keep them in my arsenal of helpful links for new Duels fans.

 



thats if new players decide to come to the forums, hopefully they do. 




Hopefully they do, but me and the other community team members are always on Twitter and other fan forums where new players might visit also.

Sean Gibbons

Associate Community Manager

Official MTG Twitter: @Wizards_Magic Official MTGO Twitter: @MagicOnline

So... mobius (plus a few others) had a pretty good point when he was pointing out the difference between "bad" players and inexperienced players (he also forgot to mention the category I tend to fall under, the "extremely unlucky" player). There's a wide range of people who play Duels, so joining games with random partners and opponents will always land you with the occasional inexperienced player that isn't versed with the fine art of stomping opponents in 2HG.

What I'm searching for at the moment are helpful resources for new Duels players that want to learn the ins and outs of winning at Magic. I recently saw an article on GameHead that did an awesome job explaining the pros and cons of different cards in the Born of Flame deck. I'm wondering if any of you have seen equally helpful resources out there. I'd like to gather them up and keep them in my arsenal of helpful links for new Duels fans.

 



thats if new players decide to come to the forums, hopefully they do. 




Hopefully they do, but me and the other community team members are always on Twitter and other fan forums where new players might visit also.




but what is the age demographic tho?  im curious to know how many new players know about the tech accessability to know the options of where to go in need of answers/tips.

I had a partner last night who had me join his part chat about half way through the game. He said he was concerned that I was holding back too much. He actually really began to irritate me as he was playing an 85 card deck, obviously not from the US and thought he was all that. I wanted to scream at him, but I didn't. If he had a nice trimmed deck we may have had a better chance.

I mean it was a good game however I know the people we were playing against were a set team because I had played them the game prior. Chandra & Liliana combo. I was playing Jace and my Partner was playing Liliana. I hate seeing that draw one a 4/1 grabage card that comes back from GY to hand when you play a swamp. So much mana for such garbage! Grrr, I mean it was so close until the opponent Liliana got exinguinate off two turns in a row, then we just died sad puppy.



Are you on PS3? That might have been me? I remember calling two of them back to back (used Demonic and Rune-Scarred demon to grab them both) and had a corrupt too...

I went on a tear with Exsanguinates yesterday. BY FAR my favorite card in the deck for 2HG.

Even later in the night we won four straight games twincasting it (Liliana and Talrand)...Those were the quickest four games I've ever won too. About 9 minutes each...

6 mana twincast exsanginate does  16 damage and gives you 16 health...

and 8 mana one (2 to cast and 6 to pump) does 24 damage and gives you 24 health, a 48 life swing.... Its insane.

The medallion gives you a free pump too IIRC.
Ugh. Geez. Look, at the risk of sounding all PC up in here, but the amount of haughtiness in this thread is mildly nauseating. Are these people actually bad/borderline retarded, or are they just inexperienced? I'd say the majority are the latter, like you and me once were. Sure, you're going to find morons in every game (see: people who loiter in open doorways in Halo/CoD/BF), and I'm certainly guilty of calling my fair share of players "bad" out of frustration and/or amusement. But I certainly don't hold myself up on some sort of God-pedestal like a lot of the posters appear to do here.

I want to see some videos from the lot of you who claim to be so far ahead of the curve skill-wise. I want to see you DOTP "experts" queue up in a limited 8-man on MODO, or go play in a GP or Starcity Open, and come back and tell me you didn't get absolutely eviscerated there. I want people within earshot of you to remark on what a "bad" player you are when it happens.

If you think it sucks that you can't join a 2HG game without getting partnered up with a "noob", well, that's on you. If you're playing 2HG without a dedicated partner, that's the risk you run. The world doesn't cater to you.

Have a wonderful day, "experts". <3 :="" br="">
p.s. I can speculate as to why one would see more skilled players in Player Matches than Ranked. You're probably running into those people who want to "protect" their standing on the leaderboards by never playing Ranked again, but who still want to play DOTP. Seems within reason, no?



I tried replicating a legendary creature before for 9 mana and it was my partners. Lost us the game. So I know how it goes for noobs. How was I supposed to know you couldn't have two copies of a Legendary creature? Am I supposed to read the whole magic rulebook before playing? Let me read the Eula and licensing agreement too I had to agree to to play the game as well, all 10 pages of it.....

 I also tried copying Primordial Hydras, etc.....you live and learn. So I have sympathy for the noobs, being one myself still. It would help to have players with mics. Even my teammates sometimes make booboos, like calling out a creature too quickly when I drew an innocent blood.... takes time to get used to working together.....


I tried replicating a legendary creature before for 9 mana and it was my partners. Lost us the game. So I know how it goes for noobs. How was I supposed to know your couldn't have two copies of a Legendary creature? Am I supposed to read the whole magic rlebook before plaing? Let me read the Eula and licensing agreement too I had to agree to  play the game as well, all 10 pages of it.....

 I also tried copying Primordial Hydras, etc.....you live and learn. So I have sympathy for the noobs, being one myself still. It would help to have players with mics. Even my teammates sometimes make booboos, like calling out a creature too quickly when I drew an innocent blood.... takes time to get used to working together.....



I've actually made the same mistake with Legendary creatures KNOWING the rule. I assumed the copy I made would replace the original. Nope, they both died. 


I tried replicating a legendary creature before for 9 mana and it was my partners. Lost us the game. So I know how it goes for noobs. How was I supposed to know your couldn't have two copies of a Legendary creature? Am I supposed to read the whole magic rlebook before plaing? Let me read the Eula and licensing agreement too I had to agree to  play the game as well, all 10 pages of it.....

 I also tried copying Primordial Hydras, etc.....you live and learn. So I have sympathy for the noobs, being one myself still. It would help to have players with mics. Even my teammates sometimes make booboos, like calling out a creature too quickly when I drew an innocent blood.... takes time to get used to working together.....



I've actually made the same mistake with Legendary creatures KNOWING the rule. I assumed the copy I made would replace the original. Nope, they both died. 



Nice :-)  

Now that I know the rule, sometimes a rite of replication or clone is a 4 mana murder card now...Gotta do what you gotta do.
Nah xbox360
Okay, I'm sure we can all provide endless instances of when a person did something so inexplicable that he crossed the imaginary line from "inexperienced" to "bad", whether it's from that person's inability to understand what a card does, or an outright refusal to read the card. So what. My point here mainly is the "attitude" being shown by all these posters who just continually want to point out bad plays or bad players for, what I'm able to glean anyways, no constructive purpose at all. Good for all of you for having so much more "skill" than the community median. *fancy claps*

If you only want to play 2HG, and don't have a regular partner, that's your choice. Just don't start crying when you get matched up with somebody with a 90 card deck that's not as "skilled" as you are. How about you just start a lobby every time and refuse to start a game unless your partner is mic'd up and in a party with you? Would it be nice if "TrueSkill" actually matched us up with those of similar ranks? Yes, it would be wonderful. But it doesn't, and Wizards_Sean says TrueSkill isn't getting replaced anytime soon, so this is what we have to deal with. So, deal with it, and stow the aura of superiority you all seem to believe you have.

Yes, there are going to be times when you get on a mic and try to coach a person to get better. That person will react like a petulant child. Oh well, these things, sadly, are to be expected. Doesn't mean you can't continue to try and make the "community" better instead of constantly announcing how terrible the community is.

There are plenty of new people who come to these boards. I've had several PMs thanking me for the guides I have written, and I'm sure others have experienced the same. I'd rather spend the majority of my time helping rather than bashing (and look, I'm not Gandhi here, I have my moments too). The more time we spend helping those "less experienced" get better, the better the community is going to be overall, and the overall quality of the games will improve. Creating yet another thread griping about bad players is not going to lead to that conclusion.

Look, say I walk into a McDonalds right now and I loudly proclaim "ugh, look at all these fat, disgusting people in here and their unhealthy dining habits". It doesn't matter whether I'm an average Joe, Mr. Olympia 2012, or a 400 pound wildebeest. What matters is I said what I said in a public forum. Everyone's going to think I'm a jerk, right?

In conclusion, I'm not trying to get all stick-in-the-mud on everyone, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for some of you to try just a teensy bit of humility from time to time.

<3 <3 <3
Ugh. Geez. Look, at the risk of sounding all PC up in here, but the amount of haughtiness in this thread is mildly nauseating. Are these people actually bad/borderline retarded, or are they just inexperienced? I'd say the majority are the latter, like you and me once were. Sure, you're going to find morons in every game (see: people who loiter in open doorways in Halo/CoD/BF), and I'm certainly guilty of calling my fair share of players "bad" out of frustration and/or amusement. But I certainly don't hold myself up on some sort of God-pedestal like a lot of the posters appear to do here.

I want to see some videos from the lot of you who claim to be so far ahead of the curve skill-wise. I want to see you DOTP "experts" queue up in a limited 8-man on MODO, or go play in a GP or Starcity Open, and come back and tell me you didn't get absolutely eviscerated there. I want people within earshot of you to remark on what a "bad" player you are when it happens.

If you think it sucks that you can't join a 2HG game without getting partnered up with a "noob", well, that's on you. If you're playing 2HG without a dedicated partner, that's the risk you run. The world doesn't cater to you.

Have a wonderful day, "experts". <3 :="" br="">
p.s. I can speculate as to why one would see more skilled players in Player Matches than Ranked. You're probably running into those people who want to "protect" their standing on the leaderboards by never playing Ranked again, but who still want to play DOTP. Seems within reason, no?



I've seen your videos man, don't try and pretend you don't put yourself on a "God-pedestal" when they play a card you don't agree with.

Having said that I do agree that most of us(myself included) could stand to be more patient with new players. I mostly get frustrated when I get stuck with a brand new player that hasn't even bothered to do the tutorial yet, or unlock his deck in campaign mode first(How can you expect to compete when you don't have access to the best cards?). Whenever I meet a player that has potential but is running a 70+ deck I try and explain probability to them, but most will balk at first and it can be tiresome, others just don't listen at all and aren't interested in getting better. When I first started I was all ears when I got partnered with a more experienced player and nowadays I love having a partner thats willing to learn.

So... mobius (plus a few others) had a pretty good point when he was pointing out the difference between "bad" players and inexperienced players (he also forgot to mention the category I tend to fall under, the "extremely unlucky" player). There's a wide range of people who play Duels, so joining games with random partners and opponents will always land you with the occasional inexperienced player that isn't versed with the fine art of stomping opponents in 2HG.

What I'm searching for at the moment are helpful resources for new Duels players that want to learn the ins and outs of winning at Magic. I recently saw an article on GameHead that did an awesome job explaining the pros and cons of different cards in the Born of Flame deck. I'm wondering if any of you have seen equally helpful resources out there. I'd like to gather them up and keep them in my arsenal of helpful links for new Duels fans.



When I was a new player, about a year ago I made my way to these forums and found Robvalue's guides. They really helped me understand how to properly evaluate cards and some of the finer points of gameplay. They should be linked in his signature. Edit: Here

Also Edit:  WingspanTT has some good guides that should be useful for new players. He made one recently about mulligans that was well done.
@PhazedOut: Sure, in my videos I rag on bad plays and bad cards and all that. But you know what else I'm doing in those videos (and in the written guides), explaining the whys and why nots of certain cards/plays. Could that be considered "more constructive" than making threads with titles containing "...how bad 2HG players are..." and "...hang your heads in shame..."? I would argue so. At least some of us are attempting to provide something other than general contempt.

As far as putting myself on a God-pedestal, well, of course, I have a pretty good understanding of how this game works. But I'm certainly not trying to give off a vibe of "how much better I am than everyone else", like you see a lot here. If that is indeed the vibe you're receiving, well, my apologies sir. Not the intent.

What even defines how "skilled" you are in this game anyways? Your standing in an easily-exploited leaderboard? A leaderboard, if people here are to be believed, populated with mostly bad players?

Look, I mostly just chimed in here to say that a lot of you need to get over yourselves. You're not nearly as skilled as you think you are, and neither am I.
@mobius: Like I said, I agree with you for the most part, I just felt you you were being a little unfair.

I think the main point is not the number of bad or new players, but the lack of even moderately skilled players.

I was just thinking and it seems the best time to bring up deck trimming is when someone is complaining about always getting bad hands. When they refute it, you then have proof.
Steve sums it up quite nicely. It's OK if a player doesn't know some rules, like the mentioned Legendary rule, the oftenly spoken about "Protection from X color" (Jace's anti Green/Blue Sword which are often misplayed) or that a player doesn't know that after chump blocking a creature with Brindle Boar he can safely sacrifice it. However, most annoyances don't come from players not knowing all the rules. Almost all annoyances come from players having been paired up with players who're not using common sense or didn't read a card's text or anything.
@PhazedOut: Sure, in my videos I rag on bad plays and bad cards and all that. But you know what else I'm doing in those videos (and in the written guides), explaining the whys and why nots of certain cards/plays. Could that be considered "more constructive" than making threads with titles containing "...how bad 2HG players are..." and "...hang your heads in shame..."? I would argue so. At least some of us are attempting to provide something other than general contempt.

As far as putting myself on a God-pedestal, well, of course, I have a pretty good understanding of how this game works. But I'm certainly not trying to give off a vibe of "how much better I am than everyone else", like you see a lot here. If that is indeed the vibe you're receiving, well, my apologies sir. Not the intent.

What even defines how "skilled" you are in this game anyways? Your standing in an easily-exploited leaderboard? A leaderboard, if people here are to be believed, populated with mostly bad players?

Look, I mostly just chimed in here to say that a lot of you need to get over yourselves. You're not nearly as skilled as you think you are, and neither am I.

I am outstanding.  Just ask me. Cool

I still love your vids mobius, even if I am a much harsher critic than you, and you forget guac.

Everyone makes mistakes in game.  It's part of Magic (miscalc on damage, etc), but damn, trying to Murder a pro-black creature...3 times on 2 different turns?
I lack patience with that type of behavior.  If you can read enough to know which game you want to buy and install, please read the cards in play.
Bad players are frustrating but we all started out bad so I can live with that most of the time IF they are willing to learn.    The bad players who refuse to accept that they are lousy/inexperienced are the most frustrating.    Was playing 1v1 the other day against a guy who had a 75+ card deck (3 or 4 different decks) and unsurprisingly I beat him over and over again with a variety of decks.   He started to complain a little at the end so just before I left I thought I'd try to give him some help.   This is on Steam so you can type stuff to everyone.

Me:  Hey, one piece of advice...

Him:  Yeah, yeah I know, trim the decks.


You see what he is saying?   He had been told before, not once but many times (because he knew what I was going to say), and he was STILL not taking the advice and yet still complaining about being unlucky.    If you aren't interested in getting better you don't get any sympathy from me. 
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