Stunt Dice for the Fighter....Now for the Rogue?

I don't mind skill mastery in the playtest but after reading about the stunt dice they are designing for the fighter, I was thinking that Skill Dice would work for the Rogue.

Any thoughts on that?

Why not Spell Dice for the Wizard while we're at it.

1 thought I had was a Rogue trading dice to get advantage for setting up SA. 

Another thought could be to apply Skill dice roll to a treasure roll.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

If the CS mechanic was available to all classes, it would go against the current intent of letting every class have some unqiue mechanic (although a module where all classes use CS equivalent might be interesting).

Personally, I'd rather skill mastery not be rogue-exclusive. I'm also one that thinks rogues should be able to trade sneak attack in for other features (like more skill trainings), in case your concept is not the combat-focused ruffian.

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My issue with the new CS is you have to give up your dice to do stunts.  How many rogues want to give up Sneak Attack to be an archer or duelist?
If the CS mechanic was available to all classes, it would go against the current intent of letting every class have some unqiue mechanic (although a module where all classes use CS equivalent might be interesting).

Personally, I'd rather skill mastery not be rogue-exclusive. I'm also one that thinks rogues should be able to trade sneak attack in for other features (like more skill trainings), in case your concept is not the combat-focused ruffian.



Essentially you want sneak attack locked into Specialties instead the class?
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If the CS mechanic was available to all classes, it would go against the current intent of letting every class have some unqiue mechanic (although a module where all classes use CS equivalent might be interesting).

Personally, I'd rather skill mastery not be rogue-exclusive. I'm also one that thinks rogues should be able to trade sneak attack in for other features (like more skill trainings), in case your concept is not the combat-focused ruffian.

Essentially you want sneak attack locked into Specialties instead the class?

No, I'm thinking sneak attack could be one of several options a rogue could pick as part of a scheme. Not all rogues need to be expert killers. Many rogues in fantasy literature were experts in recon and infiltration, and avoided combat whenever possible. It would be nice to have an option for that concept as well.

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I am White/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both orderly and instinctive. I value community and group identity, defining myself by the social group I am a part of. At best, I'm selfless and strong-willed; at worst, I'm unoriginal and sheepish.
I must have missed this article talking about "stunt dice." 

Is there a link?
 
D&D Next - Basic and Expert Editions

I firmly believe that there should be two editions of the game; the core rules released as a "Basic" set and a more complicated expanded rules edition released as an "Expert" set. These two editions would provide separate entry points to the game; one for new players or players that want a more classic D&D game and another entry point for experienced gamers that want more options and all the other things they have come to expect from previous editions.

Also, they must release several rules modules covering the main elements of the game (i.e., classes, races, combat, magic, monsters, etc.) upon launch to further expand the game for those that still need more complexity in a particular element of the game.


Here's a mockup of the Basic Set I created.



(CLICK HERE TO VIEW LARGER IMAGE)
  

Basic Set

This boxed set contains a simple, "bare bones" edition of the game; the core rules. It's for those that want a rules-light edition of the game that is extremely modifiable or for new players that get intimidated easily by too many rules and/or options. The Basic Set contains everything needed to play with all the "classic" D&D races (i.e., Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling) and classes (i.e., Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) all the way up to maximum level (i.e., 20th Level).

The Basic boxed set contains:

Quick Start Rules
A "choose your own way" adventure intended as an intro to RPGs and basic D&D terms.

Player's Handbook
(Softcover, 125 pages)
Features rules for playing the classic D&D races and classes all the way up to 20th level.

Dungeon Master's Guide

(Softcover, 125 pages)
Includes the basic rules for dungeon masters.

Monster Manual
(Softcover, 100 pages)
Includes all the classic iconic monsters from D&D. 

Introductory Adventure
(Keep on the Borderlands)
An introductory adventure for beginning players and DMs.

Also includes: 

Character Sheets
Reference Sheets
Set of Dice


Expert Set

A set of hardbound rules that contains the core rules plus expanded races and classes, more spells and a large selection of optional rules modules — that is, pretty much everything that experienced players have come to expect. Each expert edition manual may be purchased separately, or in a boxed set. The Expert set includes:

Expert PHB (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus 10 playable races, 10 character classes, expanded selection of spells and rules modules for players.)
Expert DMG (Hardcover, 250 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus expanded rules modules for DMs.)
Expert MM (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes an expanded list of monsters and creatures to challenge characters)


Expansions

These expansion rules modules can be used with both the Basic and Expert sets. Each expansion covers one specific aspect of the game, such as character creation, combat, spells, monsters, etc.) 

Hall of Heroes (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes a vast selection of playable character races and classes, new and old all in one book)
Combat and Tactics (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes dozens of new and old optional rules for combat all in one book)
Creature Compendium (Hardcover, 350 pages.$35 Includes hundreds of monsters, new and old all in one book)
The Grimoire (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes hundreds of new and old spells all in one book)





A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage

A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage and Hit Points

In my personal campaigns, I use the following system for damage and dying. It's a slight modification of the long-standing principles etsablished by the D&D game, only with a new definition of what 0 or less hit points means. I've been using it for years because it works really well. However, I've made some adjustments to take advantage of the D&D Next rules. I've decided to present the first part in a Q&A format for better clarity. So let's begin...

What are hit points?
The premise is very simple, but often misunderstood; hit points are an abstraction that represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, not necessarily their ability to take serious damage. This is a very important distinction. They represent a combination of skillful maneuvering, toughness, stamina and luck. Some targets have more hit points because they are physically tougher and are harder to injure...others have more because they are experienced combatants and have learned how to turn near fatal blows into mere scratches by skillful maneuvering...and then others are just plain lucky. Once a character runs out of hit points they become vulnerable to serious life-threatening injuries.

So what exactly does it mean to "hit" with a successful attack roll, then?
It means that through your own skill and ability you may have wounded your target if the target lacks the hit points to avoid the full brunt of the attack. That's an important thing to keep in mind; a successful "hit" does not necessarily mean you physically damaged your target. It just means that your attack was well placed and forced the target to exert themselves in such a way as to leave them vulnerable to further attacks. For example, instead of severing the target's arm, the attack merely grazes them leaving a minor cut.

But the attack did 25 points of damage! Why did it only "graze" the target?
Because the target has more than 25 hit points. Your attack forced them to exert a lot of energy to avoid the attack, but because of their combat skill, toughness, stamina and luck, they managed to avoid being seriously injured. However, because of this attack, they may not have the reserves to avoid your next attack. Perhaps you knocked them off balance or the attack left them so fatigued they lack the stamina to evade another attack. It's the DM's call on how they want to narrate the exact reason the blow didn't kill or wound the target.

Yeah, but what about "touch" attacks that rely on physical contact?
Making physical contact with a target is a lot different than striking them, so these types of attacks are the exception. If a touch attack succeeds, the attacker manages to make contact with their target.

If hit points and weapon damage don't always represent actual damage to the target, then what does it represent?
Think of the damage from an attack as more like a "threat level" rather than actual physical damage that transfers directly to the target's body. That is, the more damage an attack does, the harder it is to avoid serious injury. For example, an attack that causes 14 points of damage is more likely to wound the target than 3 points of damage (depending on how many hit points the target has left). The higher the damage, the greater the chance is that the target will become seriously injured. So, an attack that does 34 points of damage could be thought of as a "threat level of 34." If the target doesn't have the hit points to negate that threat, they become seriously injured.

Ok, but shouldn't armor reduce the amount of damage delivered from an attack?
It does reduce damage; by making it harder for an attack to cause serious injury. A successful hit against an armored target suggests that the attack may have circumvented the target's armor by striking in a vulnerable area.

What about poison and other types of non-combat damage?
Hit point loss from non-physical forms of damage represents the character spitting the poison out just in time before it takes full strength or perhaps the poison just wasn't strong enough to affect them drastically, but still weakens them. Again, it's the DMs call on how to narrate the reasons why the character avoids serious harm from the damage.

If hit points don't don't represent actual damage then how does that make sense with spells like Cure Serious Wounds and other forms of healing like healer kits with bandages?
Hit points do represent some physical damage, just not serious physical damage. Healing magic and other forms of healing still affect these minor wounds just as well as more serious wounds. For example, bandaging up minor cuts and abrasions helps the character rejuvenate and relieve the pain and/or fatigue of hit point loss. The key thing to remember is that it's an abstraction that allows the DM freedom to interpret and narrate it as they see fit.

What if my attack reduces the target to 0 or less hit points?
If a player is reduced to 0 or less hit points they are wounded. If a monster or NPC is reduce to 0 or less hit points they are killed.

Why are monsters killed immediately and not players?
Because unless the monsters are crucial to the story, it makes combat resolution much faster. It is assumed that players immediately execute a coup de grace on wounded monsters as a finishing move.

What if a character is wounded by poison or other types of non-physical damage?
If a character becomes wounded from non-combat damage they still receive the effects of being wounded, regardless if they show any physical signs of injury (i.e., internal injuries are still considered injuries).

Ok. I get it...but what happens once a character is wounded?
See below.
 

Damage and Dying

Once a character is reduced to 0 or less hit points, they start taking real damage. In other words, their reserves have run out and they can no longer avoid taking serious damage.

  1. Characters are fully operational as long as they have 1 hit point or more. They may have minor cuts, bruises, and superficial wounds, but they are are not impaired significantly. 
  2. Once they reach 0 or less hit points, they become Wounded (see below).That is, they have sustained a wound that impairs their ability to perform actions.
  3. If they reach a negative amount of hit points equal or greater than their Constitution score, they are Incapacitated. This means they are in critical condition and could possibly die.
  4. Characters will die if their hit points reach a negative amount greater than their Constitution score, plus their current level.

Unharmed: 1 hp or more
Wounded: 0 hp or less
Incapacitated: -(Constitution) to -(Constitution+Level)
Dead: Less than -(Constitution +Level)

Wounded
When the character reaches 0 or less hit points they become wounded. Wounded characters receive disadvantage on all attacks and saving throws until they heal back up to 1 hit point or more. This allows for a transitory stage between healthy and dying, without having to mess around with impairment rules while the character still has hit points left.

Incapacitated
Characters begin dying when they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution score. At which point, they must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw on each of their following turns (the disadvantage from being wounded does not apply for these saving throws).

If successful, the character remains dying, but their condition does not worsen.

If the saving throw fails, another DC 10 Constitution saving throw must be made. If that one fails, the character succumbs to their wounds and dies. If successful, the character stabilizes and is no longer dying.

Finally, if a dying character receives first aid or healing at any point, they immediately stabilize.

Dead
Characters will die if they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution, plus their current level. Thus, if an 8th level character with a Constitution score of 12 is down to 4 hit points then takes 24 points of damage (reducing their hit points to -20) the attack kills them outright.

I must have missed this article talking about "stunt dice." 

Is there a link?
 


wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/2...
"So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been." - Manwë, High King of the Valar
The Combat Superiority mechanic reminds me of Shadowrun's dice pools, which I thought was a pretty cool mechanic.

In general, I like the concept of dice pools and allowing players to budget them and spend them as they wish or as they are needed. Also, I don't think I'd have a problem with fighters having exclusive rights to them.

I'd definitely like to see them in action, however, before I decide if I like it or not.
D&D Next - Basic and Expert Editions

I firmly believe that there should be two editions of the game; the core rules released as a "Basic" set and a more complicated expanded rules edition released as an "Expert" set. These two editions would provide separate entry points to the game; one for new players or players that want a more classic D&D game and another entry point for experienced gamers that want more options and all the other things they have come to expect from previous editions.

Also, they must release several rules modules covering the main elements of the game (i.e., classes, races, combat, magic, monsters, etc.) upon launch to further expand the game for those that still need more complexity in a particular element of the game.


Here's a mockup of the Basic Set I created.



(CLICK HERE TO VIEW LARGER IMAGE)
  

Basic Set

This boxed set contains a simple, "bare bones" edition of the game; the core rules. It's for those that want a rules-light edition of the game that is extremely modifiable or for new players that get intimidated easily by too many rules and/or options. The Basic Set contains everything needed to play with all the "classic" D&D races (i.e., Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling) and classes (i.e., Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) all the way up to maximum level (i.e., 20th Level).

The Basic boxed set contains:

Quick Start Rules
A "choose your own way" adventure intended as an intro to RPGs and basic D&D terms.

Player's Handbook
(Softcover, 125 pages)
Features rules for playing the classic D&D races and classes all the way up to 20th level.

Dungeon Master's Guide

(Softcover, 125 pages)
Includes the basic rules for dungeon masters.

Monster Manual
(Softcover, 100 pages)
Includes all the classic iconic monsters from D&D. 

Introductory Adventure
(Keep on the Borderlands)
An introductory adventure for beginning players and DMs.

Also includes: 

Character Sheets
Reference Sheets
Set of Dice


Expert Set

A set of hardbound rules that contains the core rules plus expanded races and classes, more spells and a large selection of optional rules modules — that is, pretty much everything that experienced players have come to expect. Each expert edition manual may be purchased separately, or in a boxed set. The Expert set includes:

Expert PHB (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus 10 playable races, 10 character classes, expanded selection of spells and rules modules for players.)
Expert DMG (Hardcover, 250 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus expanded rules modules for DMs.)
Expert MM (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes an expanded list of monsters and creatures to challenge characters)


Expansions

These expansion rules modules can be used with both the Basic and Expert sets. Each expansion covers one specific aspect of the game, such as character creation, combat, spells, monsters, etc.) 

Hall of Heroes (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes a vast selection of playable character races and classes, new and old all in one book)
Combat and Tactics (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes dozens of new and old optional rules for combat all in one book)
Creature Compendium (Hardcover, 350 pages.$35 Includes hundreds of monsters, new and old all in one book)
The Grimoire (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes hundreds of new and old spells all in one book)





A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage

A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage and Hit Points

In my personal campaigns, I use the following system for damage and dying. It's a slight modification of the long-standing principles etsablished by the D&D game, only with a new definition of what 0 or less hit points means. I've been using it for years because it works really well. However, I've made some adjustments to take advantage of the D&D Next rules. I've decided to present the first part in a Q&A format for better clarity. So let's begin...

What are hit points?
The premise is very simple, but often misunderstood; hit points are an abstraction that represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, not necessarily their ability to take serious damage. This is a very important distinction. They represent a combination of skillful maneuvering, toughness, stamina and luck. Some targets have more hit points because they are physically tougher and are harder to injure...others have more because they are experienced combatants and have learned how to turn near fatal blows into mere scratches by skillful maneuvering...and then others are just plain lucky. Once a character runs out of hit points they become vulnerable to serious life-threatening injuries.

So what exactly does it mean to "hit" with a successful attack roll, then?
It means that through your own skill and ability you may have wounded your target if the target lacks the hit points to avoid the full brunt of the attack. That's an important thing to keep in mind; a successful "hit" does not necessarily mean you physically damaged your target. It just means that your attack was well placed and forced the target to exert themselves in such a way as to leave them vulnerable to further attacks. For example, instead of severing the target's arm, the attack merely grazes them leaving a minor cut.

But the attack did 25 points of damage! Why did it only "graze" the target?
Because the target has more than 25 hit points. Your attack forced them to exert a lot of energy to avoid the attack, but because of their combat skill, toughness, stamina and luck, they managed to avoid being seriously injured. However, because of this attack, they may not have the reserves to avoid your next attack. Perhaps you knocked them off balance or the attack left them so fatigued they lack the stamina to evade another attack. It's the DM's call on how they want to narrate the exact reason the blow didn't kill or wound the target.

Yeah, but what about "touch" attacks that rely on physical contact?
Making physical contact with a target is a lot different than striking them, so these types of attacks are the exception. If a touch attack succeeds, the attacker manages to make contact with their target.

If hit points and weapon damage don't always represent actual damage to the target, then what does it represent?
Think of the damage from an attack as more like a "threat level" rather than actual physical damage that transfers directly to the target's body. That is, the more damage an attack does, the harder it is to avoid serious injury. For example, an attack that causes 14 points of damage is more likely to wound the target than 3 points of damage (depending on how many hit points the target has left). The higher the damage, the greater the chance is that the target will become seriously injured. So, an attack that does 34 points of damage could be thought of as a "threat level of 34." If the target doesn't have the hit points to negate that threat, they become seriously injured.

Ok, but shouldn't armor reduce the amount of damage delivered from an attack?
It does reduce damage; by making it harder for an attack to cause serious injury. A successful hit against an armored target suggests that the attack may have circumvented the target's armor by striking in a vulnerable area.

What about poison and other types of non-combat damage?
Hit point loss from non-physical forms of damage represents the character spitting the poison out just in time before it takes full strength or perhaps the poison just wasn't strong enough to affect them drastically, but still weakens them. Again, it's the DMs call on how to narrate the reasons why the character avoids serious harm from the damage.

If hit points don't don't represent actual damage then how does that make sense with spells like Cure Serious Wounds and other forms of healing like healer kits with bandages?
Hit points do represent some physical damage, just not serious physical damage. Healing magic and other forms of healing still affect these minor wounds just as well as more serious wounds. For example, bandaging up minor cuts and abrasions helps the character rejuvenate and relieve the pain and/or fatigue of hit point loss. The key thing to remember is that it's an abstraction that allows the DM freedom to interpret and narrate it as they see fit.

What if my attack reduces the target to 0 or less hit points?
If a player is reduced to 0 or less hit points they are wounded. If a monster or NPC is reduce to 0 or less hit points they are killed.

Why are monsters killed immediately and not players?
Because unless the monsters are crucial to the story, it makes combat resolution much faster. It is assumed that players immediately execute a coup de grace on wounded monsters as a finishing move.

What if a character is wounded by poison or other types of non-physical damage?
If a character becomes wounded from non-combat damage they still receive the effects of being wounded, regardless if they show any physical signs of injury (i.e., internal injuries are still considered injuries).

Ok. I get it...but what happens once a character is wounded?
See below.
 

Damage and Dying

Once a character is reduced to 0 or less hit points, they start taking real damage. In other words, their reserves have run out and they can no longer avoid taking serious damage.

  1. Characters are fully operational as long as they have 1 hit point or more. They may have minor cuts, bruises, and superficial wounds, but they are are not impaired significantly. 
  2. Once they reach 0 or less hit points, they become Wounded (see below).That is, they have sustained a wound that impairs their ability to perform actions.
  3. If they reach a negative amount of hit points equal or greater than their Constitution score, they are Incapacitated. This means they are in critical condition and could possibly die.
  4. Characters will die if their hit points reach a negative amount greater than their Constitution score, plus their current level.

Unharmed: 1 hp or more
Wounded: 0 hp or less
Incapacitated: -(Constitution) to -(Constitution+Level)
Dead: Less than -(Constitution +Level)

Wounded
When the character reaches 0 or less hit points they become wounded. Wounded characters receive disadvantage on all attacks and saving throws until they heal back up to 1 hit point or more. This allows for a transitory stage between healthy and dying, without having to mess around with impairment rules while the character still has hit points left.

Incapacitated
Characters begin dying when they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution score. At which point, they must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw on each of their following turns (the disadvantage from being wounded does not apply for these saving throws).

If successful, the character remains dying, but their condition does not worsen.

If the saving throw fails, another DC 10 Constitution saving throw must be made. If that one fails, the character succumbs to their wounds and dies. If successful, the character stabilizes and is no longer dying.

Finally, if a dying character receives first aid or healing at any point, they immediately stabilize.

Dead
Characters will die if they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution, plus their current level. Thus, if an 8th level character with a Constitution score of 12 is down to 4 hit points then takes 24 points of damage (reducing their hit points to -20) the attack kills them outright.

I think we really need to wait until we see what the different schemes are perhaps there will be more combat related schemes that give different and more combat options to the rogue at the expense of getting less skills.

The most important thing to me at the moment however is that they maintain that each class has its own mechanic, and not start using the fighter dice idea or what not across the marital classes, as it would it would tend to make the other martial classes generic. I am hoping that the schemes are as interesting as the fighters mechanic since the only scheme we have seen was only the base thief scheme perhaps something like an assassin or a blade bravo will come out and add a more combat focused rogue.
Rogue will get Schemes, which should be a set of abilities unique to it. 

What are they and more importantly what they do, the next Packet should hold the answer hopefully, with Character Creation Rules getting revealed.  

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

I think it would be daft to come up with an interesting and awesome mechanic and just liimit it to the Fighter just because 'they need to have their own mechanic to make them interesting.'

Something poured from the CS mould but tweaked some for the Rogue seems more interesting to me than taking 10.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

This "unique mechanic for each class" would be a better fit for four base classes, methinks. Things like barbarians, rangers, etc. are good fodder for backgrounds, specialties, and other little tweaks, at least from a back to basics perspective.
Children believe what we tell them, they have complete faith in us. I ask of you a little of this childlike simplicity, and to bring us luck, let me speak four truly magic words: "A long time ago...." (Jean Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast) Winner of You Build the Character #12, YbtC #22, YbtC #24, YbtC #28 and YbtC #35 Winner of You Make the... Contest #8
I think it would be daft to come up with an interesting and awesome mechanic and just liimit it to the Fighter just because 'they need to have their own mechanic to make them interesting.'

Something poured from the CS mould but tweaked some for the Rogue seems more interesting to me than taking 10.



I'll share CS, if you give sneak attack :D

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I'll share CS, if you give sneak attack :D


Heh.  Didn't they talk about doing just that, at some point?
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I think it would be daft to come up with an interesting and awesome mechanic and just liimit it to the Fighter just because 'they need to have their own mechanic to make them interesting.'

Something poured from the CS mould but tweaked some for the Rogue seems more interesting to me than taking 10.



I'll share CS, if you give sneak attack :D




Done!  CS dice can be used for damage output.  Without the need for SA.

Lots cooler things to do then SA for a fighter.  But that's just me.

Maybe give the Rogue its modifier through schemes.  Assassin scheme having a higher modifier.

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />I'll share CS, if you give sneak attack :D


Heh.  Didn't they talk about doing just that, at some point?



By "give" I mean "give to the fighter" not "give it up". If rogues can spontaneously learn how to be weapon martial artists, why fighters shouldn't be able to learn sneaky dirty tricks and how to hit weak spots? :]
Two words:

Multiclassing.

Two words:

Multiclassing.




Precisely my point
I agree with the thoughts on the rogue.  My rogue at the table was bored of missing a turn to gain advantage so she just always attacked.  There isn't much to do outside of that.

If the rogue has advantage all the time- doing tons of extra damage- then the rogue doesnt have utility to do anythign else.

I'm not unhappy with the CS mechanic- far from it- but I was sad to see it being a fighter thing since rogues already had sneak attack dice.  I was hoping we'd be able to trade them into other things, but I'm not sure if I want to see that now that fighters have CS dice.

I do not want to see two nearly identical mechanics for the classes.

On Skill Focus- I hate the ability, it makes setting DCs for the rogue have to be much higher than everyone else- or knowing they'll be trivialized.  Have it be you can't fumble, and give them another toy- that one is broken imo. 

It has seemed to me since I began playing DnD (in 3e) the rogue is really an assassin who viciously murders people when they get the opportunity.  Which is a far cry from the plucky treasure hunter Lidda, the halfling rogue, appeared to me at first.  I'd like to be able to play a rogue who doesn't feel like a killing machine in combat.  Something with more utility and quirks would be my ideal rogue.

I feel like no matter what, the rogue is getting a ton of SA damage that you trade turns for.  And yea I would just play a fighter- but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see a rogue that appeals to me.
Please collect and update the DND Next Community Wiki Page with your ideas and suggestions!
Take a look at my clarified ability scores And also my Houserules relevent to DNDNext
In the last podcast they said they are giving new mechanic to rogue. So all is not lost.

And I think that SM is badly implemented too, mainly because GMs who want adventure features to be at least somewhat meaningful - as in not auto-bypassed - will be conciously or subconciously upping the DCs to "switch off" SM, which will result in a rogue actually being nerfed and worse off with SM than without.

Personally I think the [d20+d12, pick highest] is good solution, or you could just change SM to constant advantage but make it apply only to rogueish skills (not all and every, architecture and craft:blacksmith included, as in original).
Not the way Next works -- if fighters get a pool of dice that they can slush to power effect as their class mechanic, nobody else gets the exact thing as a class mechanic.  the ability is unique to the fighter.  Rogues get conditional superdamage (AKA sneak attack) as their 'thing' and since there seems to be a selectable for everyone (Fighting style, arcane tradition, domain/deity), schemes.

"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

 

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THE COALITION WAR GAME -Phyrexian Chief Praetor
Round 1: (4-1-2, 1 kill)
Round 2: (16-8-2, 4 kills)
Round 3: (18-9-2, 1 kill)
Round 4: (22-10-0, 2 kills)
Round 5: (56-16-3, 9 kills)
Round 6: (8-7-1)

Last Edited by Ralph on blank, 1920

Not saying CS will work as promised, but if it does I would like to see SA options extended as well.


I think old school rogue didn't play like the WotC rogue, but that doesn't mean you can't play WotC's rogue like you remember.

I would like part of the Rogue's uniqueness will be:

1. different ways to get advantage on an opponent,
2. get mobility (if this is needed when the rules are complete, right now everyone has mobility),
3. to find ways to avoid damage,
4. interesting ways to use skills,
5. and I think some mechanics that feel like using skills in combat (but still vs AC).

I think as in the playtest rogues will be able to pick from a variety of schemes that give unique abilities and needed extra skills.

Also Theme/Specialties will give feats that give at-will options at about 3 per feat.  Climb Speed, Cantrips have been mentioned.  I think we will encounter bluff to Advantage, Tumble (if needed), and much more at-will manuevers that might look similar to some 4e exploits.

Rogues might also be able to exchange skill mastery, and Sneak Attack for other abilities.  But they would need to be careful with sneak attack, to maintain the needed damage advancement as you lvled your rogue. 
This has been mentioned before.  Maybe instead of rolling, the Rogue could have a base average matrix and apply it to skills, SA, trade in for Advantage (Feint/Con/Charm).  Some of the things could be:

- Add extra treasure.  Rogues, come out with more loot then the rest of the party
- (Crafter Specialty) - Apply dice in different combinations to create different magic items.  Recipes and blueprint mechanics
- NPC manipulation.  Ruses, cons, and infuence

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey

I think I prefer the Dragon Age stunt point system to what is proposed here.
How does that work and why do you prefer it?

"The Apollo moon landing is off topic for this thread and this forum. Let's get back on topic." Crazy Monkey