Next vs 2nd Edition

We're an older group of player who love their 2nd edition, but the D&Dn is really going to change things. We had a really hard time getting anyone to switch to the 4th ed. All the skill and complex BS just made the game no fun, and rather than ignoring so many rule we just dumped it and went back to 2nd. The playtest we're running right now is going amazing! The players are having tons of fun and the simplified check system is mixing it up. I'll keep updated as we progress further.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
Yeah that sounds awesome.  i personally think that 2E (and basically 1E also since they weren't that different)  is the FEEL I get when i play 5E, but also I notice that 5E has a lot of the 3.X elements of customization tantalizingly placed in there without actually weighingit down (much like Kits in 2E from the red books).

So its a synergy between the more complex, advanced thinking of 3.X/4E but focusing on what made the game so great for so many yearsbefore that. 

i am excited.  I reserve judgement for all the obvious reasons but I am ACTUALLY excited.
I don't really get a 2e feel yet, but then again I probably won't until more modules come out since I played with a lot of the optional rules that made the game more tactical.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
I feel the exact same way. My biggest hold up for switching to any game is the cost. I have TONS of 2nd edition books and to rebuy them all, the game would need to be 10x better. The biggest issue with 2nd edition was pure organization - they did a piss poor job of it.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
It's hard for me to say that Next had a 1e/2e feel. I played Caves many many times in D&D/1e/2e. So was the feel from next, or just having fun in the Caves again.
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
I I have TONS of 2nd edition books and to rebuy them all, the game would need to be 10x better.

The fluff bits out of the brown books are quite easily recyclable.
The biggest issue with 2nd edition was pure organization - they did a piss poor job of it.

2E was pretty much a mess, mostly because they tried to organize all those random bits from 1E.  Second Edition is pretty much the poster child for trying to move forward while being stifled by tradition.  All they really managed to get rid of was Ranger's extra hitdie and the proto-PrC bard.
i am excited.  I reserve judgement for all the obvious reasons but I am ACTUALLY excited.

Same here, I see the 2E general style of play with some nice 4E elements and one or two issues from the older edition that has been resolved with At-Wills and Ritual casting. With more improvements Skill Challenges could be awesome in Next with a more free-form style of system.
I yoinked a couple of Next rules to drop into my 2e game and was happy to see them fit in seamlessly. The feeling between the two seems very similar, though my group is pretty cautious after 4e. 4e just feels like a different game, and we have had fun with the "Delve" set-ups where it's me versus them in a no-story-needed, no-holds-barred brutal variation on chess. But for the 2e/Next mix it feels more natural. I hope they keep it simple (and affordable!)
I'm definitely going to update some of the 2e rules - like initiative and perception.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
I kept the inflated hps at level 1 and the use of orisons and cantrips with limits to which spells can be selected for those. (For now it's only 1st level non-attack spells that qualify.) I've always allowed a background to provide a couple of minor mechanical boosts, but I'm on the fence about themes. I've mish-mashed elements from other editions in as well, such as weapon mastery (hence the inflated hit dice...), feats, etc.
I don't remember too much about 2e.  I played a cleric in a long campaign that switched from 1e to 2e, and I don't recall big differences - except at one point the DM wanted to change my spell list so I wouldn't have 'Necromancy,' which all the really potent healing spells were, and I had to talk him out of it.  Our DM had a giant binder full of rule changes, so I didn't even try to understand the system apart from what my character could do - and my character was very strange, from an isolationist city-state with no knowledge of the outside world, so that worked out.

The one old-school gamer in the playtest I ran also commented that it was very much like AD&D in 'feel.'  I found it frustrating to run, mostly because of the adventure. 
2E was so like 1E.  It really was just a rules cleanup, and the addition of a few little mechanics like weapon vs. Armor etc...  but the "major" changes were mostly optional anyways.  Classes changed a bit but I was pretty much fine with all of it.  It was DnD.  Ya' know?
The organization of 2e was terrible.... Without a dungeon screen or cheat sheet you are always jumping around int he books for THAC0 or Saving Throws. But there are soooo many books and scenarios it is amazing.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
I got the 2e feel too when I DMed through the packet one adventure.  I have a group of friends that play 2e constantly still, but we also enjoy 3.x/Pathfinder and 4e.  

The 2e feel is probably why I'm so stoked for Next.  2e had better organization then 4e when it comes down to it.  i just hope Next has better organization than 4e.  I never cared for Feats in 3.x, and realy liked 2e Proficiencies, and I'm happy with Next's Backgrounds and Specialties, as they sort of have the same feel.  

I have one player from the first playtest who wanted to know how Multiclassing was going to go.  I hope it works along the lines of 2e or 3.x.  Hybrids in 4e were OK, but this player won't touch Next if Multiclassing isn't done well, all he plays are multiclassed characters.

Anyway, I'm happy so far with Next.  There are some things I'd like to see changed and streamlined in Next, but if they never change, Next's rules set is modular, so it won't be hard to change things on my own.
I have one player from the first playtest who wanted to know how Multiclassing was going to go.  I hope it works along the lines of 2e or 3.x.

I agree with most of your sentiment, Buddha, but this last part made me cringe.

I have no problem with characters with interesting skillsets with a variety in their training and accrued powers.  But...

As a DM, I loathed the metagaming/min-max twinkfest that was 3.5E multiclassing coupled with all those feats.  It completely threw balance out the window turned far too many campaigns into exercises in powergaming one-upmanship. If 5E/Next goes down that path I'll never, ever, spend a wooden penny on it.

When I see references to multiclassing (albeit remotely/subtly), I keep my fingers crossed and hope they keep to the clean, easy, and tightly controlled version they've given us so far.

I feel the exact same way. My biggest hold up for switching to any game is the cost. I have TONS of 2nd edition books and to rebuy them all, the game would need to be 10x better. The biggest issue with 2nd edition was pure organization - they did a piss poor job of it.


The way I see it is I'll be able to ditch my PHB and DMG, and keep everything else. Next so far looks very compatible with 2nd Ed (although depending on how it goes, I might have to ditch specialties, and use 2e Kits and DL5A Roles instead). 

I'm also getting a bit of a 2e vibe from the Next playtest.  I didn't get a chance to run caverns and just ran my first playtest last night.

And it was a true playtest for me.  From scratch adventure.  On the fly encounter adjustments and story modifiers.  Miniatures used to establish marching order and party positioning only.

The whole session felt like I was back in high school running AD&D again but with even slicker rules and character build options that get players excited without unbalancing anything(that I could find - yet).  The re-emphasis back onto giving the DM tools to run the type of game they want while simultaneously giving players plenty of ways to make their characters "special" is what is making me optimistic about what's coming next.

Oh, and everyone opted for the 4d6/pick 3 option over the Array.  All but one player ended up with sub-par stats but everyone was able to contribute significantly in every encounter.  I haven't seen sub-optimal character builds work since 2e.  I may even try ignoring the encounter build guidelines altogether and throw a werebear into the next session... just to see what happens.

Twysted, we've seen the same thing here.  No one has taken the array of stats and we have 3 players who didn't play D&D before 4E, so it's not because it's old school.  I think the main reason is because rolling the dice is fun, but also because it makes it feel more like a real character when you have random results and not everyone is the same.  Point Buy or Array stats end up with basically the same look for each character which makes them all feel fairly generic and carbon.

However, when Libby made her Rogue two nights ago, her 5 STR Halfling really started her down a how-to-roleplay-this path.  Her short-for-a-halfling is suddenly a Rogue Thug with don't-call-me-little attitude who wants to prove everyone wrong.  She's really upped her roleplay as a result.  She was very new and didn't start playing even 4E until about a year ago and that little flaw in her character really inpsired her to be less shy about player her character and not so stuck in the what-powers-do-I-have mentality.

And this is common throughout all the characters of Next now.  Our Necromancer Wizard carries around a skull (which he talks to) of his long lost servant that he hopes to resurrect someday.  Our Sun Cleric is an Artisan Brewer with a real drinking problem under stress.  Etc.

Those 3 come to mind because all of them are new to RP, coming in with 4E, and have really stepped up their character personality creation in Next.  No matter how hard I tried, they really struggled to get out of their shells in 4E, relying on the excellent powers process to define their characters.  Next seems to have changed all that.
I just watched the keynote for the next game and I think they're really nailed it on the head. The old game was about FUN - not 500 skill checks for random stuff. Three checks (init, hit, save) and you're on your way through the world. We've been playing 4e and it just gets boring so fast, even with the miniatures and everything. It's missing the magic of the old system.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
My friends have been playtesting, with one of the regular DM's working the screen.  He really wanted to play a character, and asked me to DM right before they released the new adventure, with a few days to prepare.

I love Dark Sun, and have much of the 2e books, so I set out to use A Little Knowledge, the adventure with the box.  I started re-skinning monsters from the Next document to Dark Sun: Hobgoblin stats stood in for the Human Guards, etc., until I realized that all the stats in the 2e books were almost identical for equal challenge.

So I ran with it and actually felt it went well.  With the simplier mechanics the dice were compatible, and both 2e and Next seem to work on the few 'special abilities' the players or NPC has. 
wow, a Grognard thread with good attitude!

Same thing from my group. We instantly had the feeling we could do almost anything with that system.
our first run was pretty much all combat but the players still managed to try some stuff (like building cheap traps to protect the camp, try to heal the cleric with no healer around, try to find special herbs)..

4e robbed us of that feeling, it was mostly good for "tactical special" (like Lair Assault)

3e was not that bad, but everything did resolve around the build, which made it a bit hard to immerse:
"so my friend, since we're stuck on that trail togheter, what are your plans for when you get back home?"
to which the average player would respond: "I'd like to train my spring attack"


really, we're planning the next campaign using Next ruleset... with our current 2e booklets, just like a couple of you mentionned

have fun playing everyone 
You know what I completly agree with you guys I just posted about it in another section of the forum. I think this playtest is really heading in the right direction! Especially with being a newly minted DM
@CondorDMaDnD2ed don't throw out the baby with the bath water here dude. I know about your DM and your online games, they are notorious. There is definitely a magic, no pun intended, to the 2ed rules. BUT the 4e DM stuff is pretty amazing - take the Monster Manual, the best thing about it is the recommended encounters for creatures. I use the book just for that to put together my own 2ed adventures. We play 4e and 2e - and as of right now we all agree 2e is much more fun overall.
Use Dungeon Dice - track your party's die rolls, experience and leveling online @ http://dice.ajb.bz
We play 4e and 2e - and as of right now we all agree 2e is much more fun overall.

Curious.  Have you tried Next much yet?  And how has the reaction to Next been in comparison to 2E?

I loved 2E pretty much for everything except the mechanics- especially, the patchwork nature of them.  I loved specialty priests,  the settings (except Planescape and SpellJammer), most of the class handbooks, the Green Historical books,  PO: Combats and Tactics, PO: Spells and Magic.   I liked kits in concept, but thought man of them suffered from the patchwork nature of the system and lack of something like 3e feats.

When I run 3e,  I try  to capture a 2e feel (as I and most of my other friends ran it) in my 3e game using house rules, DMG variants, Unearthed Arcana variants and 3rd Party products.

 I, definitely, see a lot of 2e influence feel, but more modern edition mechanics.  I am, really, hoping that they will bring the cleric even more towards 2e specialty priests with regards to spell lists (and benefits of Channel Divinity).
Sign In to post comments