7/30/2012 FtL: "A Void Forever"

6 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's From the Lab, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
Primal Surge in the Wormfang Manta deck may be the most spectacular bombo I've ever seen. If you don't already have Infinite Reflection, the one you do get doesn't kick in until after its triggered ability resolves, which means you'll have to deal with the other triggered abilities from Denizen of the Deep (good luck cashing in the win this turn, especially when all the Infinite Reflections forcefully disappear) and all the Elvish Visionaries (with 0 cards in the deck!)

But even if that didn't completely wreck your game, what are you going to do after passing the turn and skipping 3 more turns? You don't have a way to put cards back in the deck, and won't be able to get past the draw step of your next turn.

This is why every (From the) Lab needs its resident Maniac.
Or if your opponent is being uncooperative and holding off your guys without killing them, then Denizen of the Deep will let you cash in all your extra turns at once.



No, it'll enter as a Wormfang Manta and you'll just skip another turn. 

Instead of mana guys, I went with defense guys. ...Palladium Myr can launch you into six mana on turn four, which is welcome.

Um?


SadisticMystic: You don't *have* to repeat Primal Surge. You can choose to stop at about 10 cards left in library. If the Reflection comes up after the Manta, put it on the Manta and probably stop about there. If it comes up before the Manta, put it on something else that also gets a Mark of Eviction.

Also, I don't think you're right when you say "the one you do get doesn't kick in until after its triggered ability resolves". If you reveal an Infinite Reflection off a Primal Surge, your pre-existing creatures indeed won't change until the trigger resolves, but the static ability modifying what other things ETB as will be in effect from the very next permanent you flip up, I believe. 

It's very rare that I'd dare to try to contradict SadisticMystic on a rules issue, but in this case I think that statement is incorrect.

On my fourth turn I play the first creature of the game, willbender, and pass the turn. Next turn, I cast Ixidron flipping over my willbender and my opponents hill giant.  they do nothing, and pass back to me.  I then cast infinite reflection on my ixidron.  What happens? Then, depending on the outcome, were I to cast another creature, what would happen?
Heh. Funny setup.

When you cast Infinite Reflection on Ixidron (well, when it resolves), your face-down Willbender becomes an Ixidron. The board now includes:

Opponent: Face-down 2/2 colourless creature (face-down Hill Giant)
You: Ixidron with Infinite Reflection attached
Face-down 2/2 colourless creature with a copy effect settings its copiable values to Ixidron (face-down Willbender that can't be turned face-up)

The odd Willbender-thingy is still face-down, so it's still a colourless typeless 2/2 creature. You can't turn it face up because the copy effect is overwriting its characteristics so it wouldn't have a morph cost if it were turned face up. If it were turned face up by something else like Ixidor, Reality Sculptor, then it would still be an Ixidron, but now a face-up one, so the real Ixidron would be one smaller.

When you cast another creature (say Giant Octopus), things get a little sillier. That works exactly as if you'd cast another Ixidron, and so the board after it ETBs looks like:

Opponent: Face-down 2/2 colourless creature (face-down Hill Giant)
You: Face-down 2/2 colourless creature with Infinite Reflection attached (face-down Ixidron)
Face-down 2/2 colourless creature with a copy effect settings its copiable values to Ixidron (face-down Willbender that can't be turned face-up)
Giant Octopus with a copy effect making it an Ixidron

Your Willbender is as it was, but the Octopus is now a copy of Ixidron, so it's 3/3.

Amusingly, any further creatures you cast enter the battlefield as 2/2 colourless creatures even though they're not face-down. Suppose you cast a Quicksilver Dragon, the board would end up as:

Opponent: Face-down 2/2 colourless creature (face-down Hill Giant)
You: Face-down creature with Infinite Reflection attached (face-down Ixidron)
Face-down 2/2 colourless creature with a copy effect settings its copiable values to Ixidron (face-down Willbender that can't be turned face-up)
Giant Octopus with a copy effect making it an Ixidron 
Quicksilver Dragon with a copy effect making it a 2/2 colourless creature with no types or abilities (but not face-down)