What of the Next generation?

Will next be able to grab the new generation of young gamers? Will there be options for Harry Potter wizards who know only a handful of spells they can use practically at-will? Will next be able to capture the attention of the WoW or MtG gaming community? Will modularity allow for options so that these players can play the class they want to play the way they want to play it? Does D&D even need such an influx of young blood to stick around 10 years from now? 20?

My 5e Homebrew Material

The Warblade: A Mythic Fighter

The Hero: A Modular Class

Realistically, it does need to attract new players because the old ones are slowly dying off. It makes me sad that the old guard are passing into legends of the game, but we have to insure at least to replace the players that are lost.
Realistically, it does need to attract new players because the old ones are slowing dying off. It makes me sad that the old guard are passing into legends of the game, but we have to insure at least to replace the players that are lost. 



The number of game designers who have died in the last couple years alone is disheartening.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Realistically, it does need to attract new players because the old ones are slowing dying off. It makes me sad that the old guard are passing into legends of the game, but we have to insure at least to replace the players that are lost. 



The number of game designers who have died in the last couple years alone is disheartening.


My point exactly.
Honestly, I think D&D is iconic enough to stand on its own without having to pander to the WoW and MtG crowd. 

If anything, it needs to focus on getting non-gamers interested in the game. Stylish and/or humorous TV commercials aired on teen/young adult networks would help tremendously.
D&D Next - Basic and Expert Editions

I firmly believe that there should be two editions of the game; the core rules released as a "Basic" set and a more complicated expanded rules edition released as an "Expert" set. These two editions would provide separate entry points to the game; one for new players or players that want a more classic D&D game and another entry point for experienced gamers that want more options and all the other things they have come to expect from previous editions.

Also, they must release several rules modules covering the main elements of the game (i.e., classes, races, combat, magic, monsters, etc.) upon launch to further expand the game for those that still need more complexity in a particular element of the game.


Here's a mockup of the Basic Set I created.



(CLICK HERE TO VIEW LARGER IMAGE)
  

Basic Set

This boxed set contains a simple, "bare bones" edition of the game; the core rules. It's for those that want a rules-light edition of the game that is extremely modifiable or for new players that get intimidated easily by too many rules and/or options. The Basic Set contains everything needed to play with all the "classic" D&D races (i.e., Human, Dwarf, Elf, and Halfling) and classes (i.e., Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard) all the way up to maximum level (i.e., 20th Level).

The Basic boxed set contains:

Quick Start Rules
A "choose your own way" adventure intended as an intro to RPGs and basic D&D terms.

Player's Handbook
(Softcover, 125 pages)
Features rules for playing the classic D&D races and classes all the way up to 20th level.

Dungeon Master's Guide

(Softcover, 125 pages)
Includes the basic rules for dungeon masters.

Monster Manual
(Softcover, 100 pages)
Includes all the classic iconic monsters from D&D. 

Introductory Adventure
(Keep on the Borderlands)
An introductory adventure for beginning players and DMs.

Also includes: 

Character Sheets
Reference Sheets
Set of Dice


Expert Set

A set of hardbound rules that contains the core rules plus expanded races and classes, more spells and a large selection of optional rules modules — that is, pretty much everything that experienced players have come to expect. Each expert edition manual may be purchased separately, or in a boxed set. The Expert set includes:

Expert PHB (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus 10 playable races, 10 character classes, expanded selection of spells and rules modules for players.)
Expert DMG (Hardcover, 250 pages. $35 Includes core rules plus expanded rules modules for DMs.)
Expert MM (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes an expanded list of monsters and creatures to challenge characters)


Expansions

These expansion rules modules can be used with both the Basic and Expert sets. Each expansion covers one specific aspect of the game, such as character creation, combat, spells, monsters, etc.) 

Hall of Heroes (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes a vast selection of playable character races and classes, new and old all in one book)
Combat and Tactics (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes dozens of new and old optional rules for combat all in one book)
Creature Compendium (Hardcover, 350 pages.$35 Includes hundreds of monsters, new and old all in one book)
The Grimoire (Hardcover, 225 pages. $35 Includes hundreds of new and old spells all in one book)





A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage

A Million Hit Points of Light: Shedding Light on Damage and Hit Points

In my personal campaigns, I use the following system for damage and dying. It's a slight modification of the long-standing principles etsablished by the D&D game, only with a new definition of what 0 or less hit points means. I've been using it for years because it works really well. However, I've made some adjustments to take advantage of the D&D Next rules. I've decided to present the first part in a Q&A format for better clarity. So let's begin...

What are hit points?
The premise is very simple, but often misunderstood; hit points are an abstraction that represent the character's ability to avoid serious damage, not necessarily their ability to take serious damage. This is a very important distinction. They represent a combination of skillful maneuvering, toughness, stamina and luck. Some targets have more hit points because they are physically tougher and are harder to injure...others have more because they are experienced combatants and have learned how to turn near fatal blows into mere scratches by skillful maneuvering...and then others are just plain lucky. Once a character runs out of hit points they become vulnerable to serious life-threatening injuries.

So what exactly does it mean to "hit" with a successful attack roll, then?
It means that through your own skill and ability you may have wounded your target if the target lacks the hit points to avoid the full brunt of the attack. That's an important thing to keep in mind; a successful "hit" does not necessarily mean you physically damaged your target. It just means that your attack was well placed and forced the target to exert themselves in such a way as to leave them vulnerable to further attacks. For example, instead of severing the target's arm, the attack merely grazes them leaving a minor cut.

But the attack did 25 points of damage! Why did it only "graze" the target?
Because the target has more than 25 hit points. Your attack forced them to exert a lot of energy to avoid the attack, but because of their combat skill, toughness, stamina and luck, they managed to avoid being seriously injured. However, because of this attack, they may not have the reserves to avoid your next attack. Perhaps you knocked them off balance or the attack left them so fatigued they lack the stamina to evade another attack. It's the DM's call on how they want to narrate the exact reason the blow didn't kill or wound the target.

Yeah, but what about "touch" attacks that rely on physical contact?
Making physical contact with a target is a lot different than striking them, so these types of attacks are the exception. If a touch attack succeeds, the attacker manages to make contact with their target.

If hit points and weapon damage don't always represent actual damage to the target, then what does it represent?
Think of the damage from an attack as more like a "threat level" rather than actual physical damage that transfers directly to the target's body. That is, the more damage an attack does, the harder it is to avoid serious injury. For example, an attack that causes 14 points of damage is more likely to wound the target than 3 points of damage (depending on how many hit points the target has left). The higher the damage, the greater the chance is that the target will become seriously injured. So, an attack that does 34 points of damage could be thought of as a "threat level of 34." If the target doesn't have the hit points to negate that threat, they become seriously injured.

Ok, but shouldn't armor reduce the amount of damage delivered from an attack?
It does reduce damage; by making it harder for an attack to cause serious injury. A successful hit against an armored target suggests that the attack may have circumvented the target's armor by striking in a vulnerable area.

What about poison and other types of non-combat damage?
Hit point loss from non-physical forms of damage represents the character spitting the poison out just in time before it takes full strength or perhaps the poison just wasn't strong enough to affect them drastically, but still weakens them. Again, it's the DMs call on how to narrate the reasons why the character avoids serious harm from the damage.

If hit points don't don't represent actual damage then how does that make sense with spells like Cure Serious Wounds and other forms of healing like healer kits with bandages?
Hit points do represent some physical damage, just not serious physical damage. Healing magic and other forms of healing still affect these minor wounds just as well as more serious wounds. For example, bandaging up minor cuts and abrasions helps the character rejuvenate and relieve the pain and/or fatigue of hit point loss. The key thing to remember is that it's an abstraction that allows the DM freedom to interpret and narrate it as they see fit.

What if my attack reduces the target to 0 or less hit points?
If a player is reduced to 0 or less hit points they are wounded. If a monster or NPC is reduce to 0 or less hit points they are killed.

Why are monsters killed immediately and not players?
Because unless the monsters are crucial to the story, it makes combat resolution much faster. It is assumed that players immediately execute a coup de grace on wounded monsters as a finishing move.

What if a character is wounded by poison or other types of non-physical damage?
If a character becomes wounded from non-combat damage they still receive the effects of being wounded, regardless if they show any physical signs of injury (i.e., internal injuries are still considered injuries).

Ok. I get it...but what happens once a character is wounded?
See below.
 

Damage and Dying

Once a character is reduced to 0 or less hit points, they start taking real damage. In other words, their reserves have run out and they can no longer avoid taking serious damage.

  1. Characters are fully operational as long as they have 1 hit point or more. They may have minor cuts, bruises, and superficial wounds, but they are are not impaired significantly. 
  2. Once they reach 0 or less hit points, they become Wounded (see below).That is, they have sustained a wound that impairs their ability to perform actions.
  3. If they reach a negative amount of hit points equal or greater than their Constitution score, they are Incapacitated. This means they are in critical condition and could possibly die.
  4. Characters will die if their hit points reach a negative amount greater than their Constitution score, plus their current level.

Unharmed: 1 hp or more
Wounded: 0 hp or less
Incapacitated: -(Constitution) to -(Constitution+Level)
Dead: Less than -(Constitution +Level)

Wounded
When the character reaches 0 or less hit points they become wounded. Wounded characters receive disadvantage on all attacks and saving throws until they heal back up to 1 hit point or more. This allows for a transitory stage between healthy and dying, without having to mess around with impairment rules while the character still has hit points left.

Incapacitated
Characters begin dying when they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution score. At which point, they must make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw on each of their following turns (the disadvantage from being wounded does not apply for these saving throws).

If successful, the character remains dying, but their condition does not worsen.

If the saving throw fails, another DC 10 Constitution saving throw must be made. If that one fails, the character succumbs to their wounds and dies. If successful, the character stabilizes and is no longer dying.

Finally, if a dying character receives first aid or healing at any point, they immediately stabilize.

Dead
Characters will die if they reach a negative amount of hit points equal to their Constitution, plus their current level. Thus, if an 8th level character with a Constitution score of 12 is down to 4 hit points then takes 24 points of damage (reducing their hit points to -20) the attack kills them outright.

Will next be able to grab the new generation of young gamers? Will there be options for Harry Potter wizards who know only a handful of spells they can use practically at-will? Will next be able to capture the attention of the WoW or MtG gaming community? Will modularity allow for options so that these players can play the class they want to play the way they want to play it? Does D&D even need such an influx of young blood to stick around 10 years from now? 20?


I don't think D&D is currently following the "adapt to new players" strategy - it is more along the line of "hoping that what attracted players years ago will still work today".
It may work - but I think designers outside the "D&D crowd" have a greater chance to build the game that could attract these "young bloods".

Anecdote : I've recently began playing Mouseguard with both "old timers" of RPG and new players - the new players had an easier time adapting to MG than the experimented ones, and found 4E and 13thAge less intuitive than MG when we played them. There's something more "intuitive" in MG for them, while the game is counter intuitive to some old timers.
The reactions to the design/feel/mechanisms/moods of games are different today than they were years ago - and there is a lot of work, for designers, in trying to build something apropriate for today's new players...
Remember Tunnel Seventeen !
What's missing is a 'big' draw.  In the olden days of yore, the cartoon -alone- was enough to get a lot of attention.  Plus there were the occasional ads, not to mention entire crusades of evangelical crackpots...erm...wait, maybe we could do without the last part there.

There was also local-affiliate tie-ins with bookstores.  My local Waldenbooks had the SciFi fantasy club where you got 15% off every D&D purchase for $10/year.  I saved a LOT of money that way early on.  In fact, I saved more than the yearly cost in a single day...and I wasn't even 18 at the time (my own money).  That's a hefty purchase 'back in the day'.

So we need more than 'just' a new game.  A good-selling MMO would be an obvious one...but the MMO genre is so split up it makes -us- look united, even monolithic.  The 'come in and play' days at LFGS's are good, but they need more backing and promotion from WotC.

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

D&D Previous, which is being developed with only nostalgia in mind, definitely won't be attracting new players.

What's missing is a 'big' draw.  In the olden days of yore, the cartoon -alone- was enough to get a lot of attention.  Plus there were the occasional ads, not to mention entire crusades of evangelical crackpots...erm...wait, maybe we could do without the last part there.



Yeah, I don't think it would matter. They would get laughed out of the room.

Evangelist "D&D is a soul sucking evil game that draws you into the dark side."

Teenager "Uh... ok, guess I'll stick with my Dante's Inferno or Diablo 3. Maybe go watch some supernatural instead."

There was also local-affiliate tie-ins with bookstores.  My local Waldenbooks had the SciFi fantasy club where you got 15% off every D&D purchase for $10/year.  I saved a LOT of money that way early on.  In fact, I saved more than the yearly cost in a single day...and I wasn't even 18 at the time (my own money).  That's a hefty purchase 'back in the day'.

So we need more than 'just' a new game.  A good-selling MMO would be an obvious one...but the MMO genre is so split up it makes -us- look united, even monolithic.  The 'come in and play' days at LFGS's are good, but they need more backing and promotion from WotC.



Yeah, my idea would be a tv show where you have a doctor, lawyer, house wife, unemployed 30 year old, and a fast food waiter playing D&D. It would show 10 minutes of their lives outside the game. Then it would show them in the game playing and switch between them playing and what their characters were doing. I think just something like that would really get the word out...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
D&D Next will attract new players, like any other editions of D&D did. New people that find interest in D&D will come in because of its unique trait. A RPG of reknown. Roleplaying Games are really unique. Its a new iterations of a famous game and many people will want to jump in the wagon and learn a new version. 

Seeing how broad the announcement reached out to the population (NY Times, Internet etc..) i can only imagine the release of D&D Next will be as big if not more. And because the game will be fun to many people, this will attract new players in. (the opposite is true as well, people that don't like it will repel some new players too)

Organized Play Programs will also keep helping people connect and play in public i am sure.  

D&D Next will attract new players, like any other editions of D&D did. New people that find interest in D&D will come in because of its unique trait. A RPG of reknown. Roleplaying Games are really unique. Its a new iterations of a famous game and many people will want to jump in the wagon and learn a new version. 

Seeing how broad the announcement reached out to the population (NY Times, Internet etc..) i can only imagine the release of D&D Next will be as big if not more. And because the game will be fun to many people, this will attract new players in. (the opposite is true as well, people that don't like it will repel some new players too)

Organized Play Programs will also keep helping people connect and play in public i am sure.  




Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
When I was a teenager, paperpack series like Conan, Tarzan and Lord of the Rings were clustered on the bookshelves very near the D&D hardcovers.  So, some of my first impressions of fantasy came from these kinda characters and stories.  

I haven't seen a Tarzan book in years, let alone the ten or twenty I used to see in the early to mid-80s.  Older stuff is still around of course, you just have to look a bit harder.  Conan has made a resurgance over the last few years for instance.  This isn't the series so influenced by L. Sprague DeCamp though, it's straight Robet E. Howard stories.  The books are less a series and more compilations of his work.

Now, I see Harry Potter books and similar series.  They're really not written for someone my age but, I allow myself to enjoy them.  And I do, especially the early books.

I think many younger people prolly get their first impressions from Harry Potter, just like I did Tarzan and Conan.  It all depends on what's out there, what people are likely to see first and take inspiration from.  

= = =

For DDN to have the widest appeal possible it has to give each kind of person something they can quickly latch onto, whether that's a Conan-like barbarian (for someone like me) or a Potter-ish wizard for someone else.  There wasn't much need for that kind of diversity in earlier D&D; back then, Conan, Elric, Fafrd and Gray Mouser did the trick ;).  Now, there is need for those and more.
/\ Art
might be one of the reasons why I dont like Harry potter.


ask me of him again after he's been around for 40 + years  
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....

So we need more than 'just' a new game.  A good-selling MMO would be an obvious one...but the MMO genre is so split up it makes -us- look united, even monolithic.  The 'come in and play' days at LFGS's are good, but they need more backing and promotion from WotC.



Yeah, my idea would be a tv show where you have a doctor, lawyer, house wife, unemployed 30 year old, and a fast food waiter playing D&D. It would show 10 minutes of their lives outside the game. Then it would show them in the game playing and switch between them playing and what their characters were doing. I think just something like that would really get the word out...



Good idea, tho they do an real life animation mix of they PC's being real life anf the characters being animated.
I've removed content from this thread because Baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_...

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Thanks!
And also rather offensive.  Wow.



Yeah, what I was saying was a diverse group of people come together and hang out and have fun. No where did I even hint at 'escapist' fantasy stuff...

Besides if we let the people that watch TV in on the whole 'escapist' thing we might have a riot on our hands and TV burnings...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.

Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...


 HELL YEAH !!

Not only it would be very good for the brand, but when i'd go shopping with the wife and kids at Wal-mart, i could pretend go checking for some shaving cream while sneaking away to see the new D&D releases!  

Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...


 HELL YEAH !!

Not only it would be very good for the brand, but when i'd go shopping with the wife and kids at Wal-mart, i could pretend go checking for some shaving cream while sneaking away to see the new D&D releases!  



"What took you so long?!"

"Umm...sorry, I was torn between the Black Forest and the Virginia Ham.  You never told me how hard a decision it is, just shopping for deli meat!  Next time it'll be between the Butterball and Jenni-O turkey breast.  I don't know -what-'ll happen!"

"Lightning...it flashes bright, then fades away.  It can't protect, it can only destroy."

D&D Previous, which is being developed with only nostalgia in mind, definitely won't be attracting new players.




The N in D&DN stands for? 
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Honestly, I think D&D is iconic enough to stand on its own without having to pander to the WoW and MtG crowd.  



Do you know how small we are in comparison?... this is a drop of water... that sea over there is huge.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Coming from an MTG Player:  Trust me, you don't want any part of any ruleset designed to cater to MTG players.

We have like 2 paragraphs of rules on how to turn a card sideways.

Above all else, the most dangerous thing that can ever be said during any sort of testing scenario is "It's just the test." Assumption that an issue, no matter how glaring, will be fixed in the final product is the most devastating assumption that any tester can make, and the most disastrous of excuses for any flaw.
To be sure D&D is a tiny drop as Garthanos accurately puts it.

What I think is so cool, is how that tiny drop has influenced those big oceans.  We might be tiny, but man can we make waves!  Cool
I feel like we underestimate our significance in nerd culture. We are not a tiny drop compared to the MtG ocean, almost every MtG player I've ever met has played at least some D&D. Now, there are far more steady MtG players than steady D&D players, because MtG games go quickly and D&D campaigns are a big time commitment. I also know of many people who have played before and want to play, but have trouble finding a DM. Often they want to play but feel like they don't know how or that they're "doing it wrong." I've been in groups (not often, but on occasion) where I've mentioned I'm an active DM and they start treating me with odd reverence, as though I've decoded one of the mysteries of the universe or something.
"So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been." - Manwë, High King of the Valar
I feel like we underestimate our significance in nerd culture. We are not a tiny drop compared to the MtG ocean, almost every MtG player I've ever met has played at least some D&D.  



The main ocean isnt MtG that is a pretty small pond too.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

D&D Next will attract new players, like any other editions of D&D did. New people that find interest in D&D will come in because of its unique trait. A RPG of reknown. Roleplaying Games are really unique. Its a new iterations of a famous game and many people will want to jump in the wagon and learn a new version. 

Seeing how broad the announcement reached out to the population (NY Times, Internet etc..) i can only imagine the release of D&D Next will be as big if not more. And because the game will be fun to many people, this will attract new players in. (the opposite is true as well, people that don't like it will repel some new players too)

Organized Play Programs will also keep helping people connect and play in public i am sure.  




Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...

+1

This would be ideal.

I feel like we underestimate our significance in nerd culture. We are not a tiny drop compared to the MtG ocean, almost every MtG player I've ever met has played at least some D&D.  



The main ocean isnt MtG that is a pretty small pond too.


I think you might be underestimating the actual number of D&D players out there.

D&D players that is , not current D&D customers.
   Currently Marvel is trying to unite it's Avengers and X-Men franchise into a single one as a  strategic move, also it's summer cross-over, the comics equivalent to summer blockbusters, is Avengers vs X-men in which the two factions fight to the comic book death.

   I propose a high powered stab to get the main-stream's attention a new movie DnD: Drizzt vs Raistlin Surprised

   Drizzt is popular, ok not with DnD players but I know a lot of people who read some of his books, plus Legolas was/is very popular with the Lotr film crowd , get a handsome actor CGI him up to be a Drow, emphasize his escape from a abusive background and his dangerous loner nature and boom you've hit  the heart strings of  a lot of potential viewers/players.

   DragonLance is popular and Raistlin is it's break out character, he is also a mage a great inclusion to a DnD movie you also have a radically different character arc of falling to he dark side, again the bad guy/dangerous appeal with powerful visuals.

   Have the movie be them fighting with Raistlin as the bad guy or them teaming up against someone else...

   [/insanity]

  As a personal this is something I can really do initiative I have a two pronged strategy for "proselytizing" DnD:

     a) average non DnD player asks me about DnD: I say "Yeah good game you should try it!", and then shut up as to not accidentaly give away that DDN is the hipster edition and thus scare them off.

    b) hipster non DnD player asks me about DnD: I say "Yeah good game you should try it!" then start quoting the developers about how they're bringing back this thing from the 70's these 5 things from the 80's a spinkle of the 90's how DND is moving away from mainstream gaming concepts from WoW etc.

D&D Previous, which is being developed with only nostalgia in mind, definitely won't be attracting new players.




Except that it has as much of a chance as 4e.  Or 3rd edition. 

You presume to know alot about new players.





CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
I've removed content from this thread. Baiting/Trolling is against the Code of Conduct.

You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conduct

Pease keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
D&D Next will attract new players, like any other editions of D&D did. New people that find interest in D&D will come in because of its unique trait. A RPG of reknown. Roleplaying Games are really unique. Its a new iterations of a famous game and many people will want to jump in the wagon and learn a new version. 

Seeing how broad the announcement reached out to the population (NY Times, Internet etc..) i can only imagine the release of D&D Next will be as big if not more. And because the game will be fun to many people, this will attract new players in. (the opposite is true as well, people that don't like it will repel some new players too)

Organized Play Programs will also keep helping people connect and play in public i am sure.  




Right.  I had a brand new kid playing 4e last night at encounters.  It took alot of patience, but I am pretty sure he knows how the game works now.  He is 17, but apparently unfamiliar with alot of the genre conventions.  He mentioned however how he likes to build worlds.  He thought D&D was possibly a framework with which to build that world.  I mean this kid had very little knowledge about fantasy, sci fi, or comics.  He did not know who Cyclops was.  (I was trying to explain what a magic missile was, as in Damaging force.)  We scrounged up a set of dice, and he kept getting confused by thinking the damage roll was the attack roll. 

He loved the game session, had a descent grasp of at least HOW to survive, even if not understanding his powers, and had fun.  It is not 4e that drew him there, it was the NAME Dungeons and Dragons.  THat kid would not have cared if I was running Pathfinder or 4e.  He found that wednesday night there is a game running at the comic shop.  He came to play.  He said he had a blast.  That will happen with D&D NEXT just as well as with 4e.

He left, saying he didn't realize people made the game into stories...  ANd how awesome it was.


CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
D&D Next will attract new players, like any other editions of D&D did. New people that find interest in D&D will come in because of its unique trait. A RPG of reknown. Roleplaying Games are really unique. Its a new iterations of a famous game and many people will want to jump in the wagon and learn a new version. 

Seeing how broad the announcement reached out to the population (NY Times, Internet etc..) i can only imagine the release of D&D Next will be as big if not more. And because the game will be fun to many people, this will attract new players in. (the opposite is true as well, people that don't like it will repel some new players too)

Organized Play Programs will also keep helping people connect and play in public i am sure.  




Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...



Well maybe TARGET.  But Walmart?  D&D has the DEVIL INSIDE IT!

CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
might be one of the reasons why I dont like Harry potter.


ask me of him again after he's been around for 40 + years  



Oh it will be!

It was really the STAR WARS, for the kids of the 2000 decade.



CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!

Hopefully they will get the boxed sets out on release in wal-mart and other stores...


 HELL YEAH !!

Not only it would be very good for the brand, but when i'd go shopping with the wife and kids at Wal-mart, i could pretend go checking for some shaving cream while sneaking away to see the new D&D releases!  



I do that now with the Star Wars toys.

It is how I got my rather well balanced throwing foam Mjolnir!



CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production. D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
     D&D is fully part of our culture now.  Everybody gets a chance to notice it, and to play if they want.  It's that nerd game they play with funny dice and little figures.  There is really little advertising about 5e will do to increase awareness of the game or attract more players.  Now they may find the game to be more or less fun when they try it, and thus end up expanding the number of players, but the game is mature and the number of newbies has been pretty constant for decades.  5e may attract or discourage the casual D&D player [or switch the dedicated to casual], but the novice will come to the table with no knowledge of whether this is a 1e or 5e game.
i've come to D&D from videogames. in particular the Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy & Legend of Zelda games of the mid-late 90's.

D&D is pretty much the Kleenex of RPGs at this point: most people know the basic idea of D&D, but not the specifics. i don't remember buying an actual Kleenex brand tissue, but we all call it Kleenexes. 

D&D is the same way: people will ask for D&D by name but will Next be able to keep people's attention past that initial meeting? 

as we don't have the finished product, who knows.

gaming now is not anywhere near what it was when D&D was introduced. to get an idea of the videogames of the era, Maze War first came out in '74. Rogue was introduced a few years later. not a roguelike, but Rogue itself... the original. 

nowadays we have a thriving PC gaming community, multiple home consoles that can act as entertainment centers, handheld devices where we can game where we want. 

D&D does have many advantages over these though. the direct human interaction and the ability to do virtually anything you want being the biggest ones, but those advantages, however, are shared by the multitude of TTRGPs out there.

TTRPGs are a niche market and D&D has the advantage of free PR as being the Kleenex brand. new players interested in RPGs will probably mention D&D by name... but it's still up to D&D the game and the groups playing it to keep those new players interested. 

now, i've got my preferences and i'm not afraid to make them known. i rarely play console shooters as i have preference for mouse & keyboard on that genre. there are a few exceptions, like Borderlands, but those are few and far in between. i don't know if i could play a purely competitive shooter on a controller.

same with RPGs. i generally stay away from the high-lethality ones. they don't interest me in the slightest. there are also systems out there i don't touch, even if i like the group... the mechanics are too much of a hassle for me.

will 5th ed be a success that causes a splash in the world or a failure that potentially shelves the brand?

who knows. 
3rd ed SRD, character sheets, errata & free modules 4th ed test drive - modules, starter rules, premade characters and character builder & character sheet, errata Free maps and portraits, dice, printable graph paper, campaign managing website, image manipulation program + token maker & zone markers

"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR **** LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON LEMONS! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?! I'M THE MAN WHO'S GONNA BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's gonna BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!" -Cave Johnson, Portal 2
Basic Edition (Moldvay), the best way to get young people's imaginations whirling.
i've come to D&D from videogames.



Ah, finally an explanation.

D&D is fully part of our culture now.




Whose culture?
i've come to D&D from videogames.



Ah, finally an explanation.




for what? i've never been shy about the fact that i started playing 2nd ed years ago alongside my SNES & PS1.  
3rd ed SRD, character sheets, errata & free modules 4th ed test drive - modules, starter rules, premade characters and character builder & character sheet, errata Free maps and portraits, dice, printable graph paper, campaign managing website, image manipulation program + token maker & zone markers

"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR **** LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON LEMONS! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?! I'M THE MAN WHO'S GONNA BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's gonna BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!" -Cave Johnson, Portal 2
for what?



The way you seem to approach/want this game to play.

Which is not wrong or right, there is no wrong or right in how you want to play this wacky game. 
the fact that i came into D&D from videogames about 17 years ago has nothing really to do with my preferences. it's more the fact that i'm a game junkie: tabletop, video, card, board... whatever. i like games. 
 
more importantly, i like well-made games and well-made games are often done by devs who are not afraid to look outside their game, genre or medium even and convert ideas that work. 

to use a videogame example, there is a reason newer Castlevania games still use the Metroid-style of level design it borrowed in Castlevania II and many of the games from Symphony of the Night and onward have used a heavier CRPG influence (leveling, equipment, etc...) as part of the gameplay mechanics.

would castlevania still be a sold if it was nothing more then the original with a fresh coat of paint?

i know if D&D had not evolved past 2nd ed i doubt i would have bought it's 3rd or 4th editions or kept introducing others to the game. 

3rd ed resolved many of the problems i was having with 2nd ed's less user-friendly bits and by the time 4th ed came around i had already stopped trying to GM 3rd ed... to make it a game i would run would require a massive retooling of the system... which 4th ed did.

now 4th ed isn't perfect. i do use some house rules and i'm still working on some others, but for the most part they're cosmetic in nature and not near the overhaul i would need to do with 3rd or previous to make it something i would palletable enough to run. 

what i want from 5th ed is a game that's well designed with a modern philosophy, rather the one that's designed purely for nostagic reasons with little more then lip service given to more modern design. i don't care if it has nostalgic elements, as long as they're well designed to be balanced and fun. 

5th ed seems like it's going to require a load of work on the GM's end to make the game playable on initial pickup. and from what we've seen/heard it doesn't seem like the most player-friendly system, well newbie-friendly as i'm sure a lot will be old hat to veteran players, and will almost require the new players to be fathered into the game rather then pickup the game themselves as many of the conventions used by what i've seen have long been discarded by other games.

just my 2cp worth though.
3rd ed SRD, character sheets, errata & free modules 4th ed test drive - modules, starter rules, premade characters and character builder & character sheet, errata Free maps and portraits, dice, printable graph paper, campaign managing website, image manipulation program + token maker & zone markers

"All right, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR **** LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it thought it could give CAVE JOHNSON LEMONS! DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?! I'M THE MAN WHO'S GONNA BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN! WITH THE LEMONS! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's gonna BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!" -Cave Johnson, Portal 2
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