DM hates thieves! please help!

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So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...
1. The DM felt as if I was leveling faster than the mage/fighter/ranger/druid in the group and all of the xp I have been getting is being nerfed. One of the bonuses, I thought, to being a rogue was that it was the fastest to level...

2. The DM thought it would be highly unfair if I could just go around pick pocketing to get more gold than anyone else. Also in dungeons I have been *combat looting* and trying to pilfer as much as possible, without being obvious of course, before my companions even notice. The DMs *fix* for this was make it so that the amount I got from pick pocketing was so infinitesimal, (2-12 silver MAX). Whereas if the group just collectivly loots we get 20-70 gold.

3. After the first main adventure the quest giver was handing out *in his terms* exceptional loot, The fighter recieved a sword+1 with 1lb weight, and a shield+1, the ranger a bow with an extra attack per round(NUTS!), the mage a bag of holding, and the druid a ring of elemental command, and me a shirt -1ac. As he gave me the shirt he said he did so to "better define my role in the group." Does this mean thieves are really bad warriors with the ability to pick locks?

So my question I hope to get answered is this.
Is there any reason for me to continue in this campaign as a thief? And also, is there any way possible to *fix* the issues I'm having...
Any help would be VERY greatly appreciated 
So many questions. 
1. what edition are you playing? I believe that XP requirements for leveling are the same for every class. Xp should be given equally to all mebers of the group. aside from RP bonuses etc. 

2. I can see most people only having so much but ask your DM to create a loot table for pocket picking. The risk of getting caught should at least give you the chance at some cool loots ie. rolling 100 on  percentiles. you dont have to get awesome things every time, but you should be rewarded for playing a thief as a thief. 

3. Does the shirt Do Anything? otherwise use it to muffle the screams of your party members as you slit thier throats and take all thier shinies.
(kidding.... mostly)

I reserve my opionon on to stay, leave or reroll until i hear your answers. 
 
 
57189838 wrote:
It may be late to post this suggestion, get a small booklet and write PC Rules on the front, and then inside start making up PC Rules to counter DM rules. Remember to use Ink, it's official if it is in Ink. If he says "it is DM's rules" then consult your PC rulebook for an appropriate rule such as "When the DM is railroading you then a PC may transfer to a train of his own choosing" ... ...If cash isn't an issue, have your rules Notorized, ussually this only costs about $20 or so a page, obviously Notorized rules will trump his rules, and most courts of law would agree, plus think of the entertainment value of presenting these rules to a Notary Public.

Pre 3.0 different classes leveled at different rates.  It created problems like the OP is experiencing.


Everyone at the table needs to be on the same team.  You and the DM need to have an out of character talk about what you both expect from the game and get on the same page.  Either you need to stop pickpocketing/looting or he needs to learn to be ok with it and create roleplaying opportunities out of it.

By the way most groups I have played with have gotten rid of XP by now.  The DM has up level up when it fits the story.

As a DM I use experience payouts, but only as a guideline for when the party should be levelling up.  If one player has to miss 2-3 sessions he/she will level up when everyone else does as well.  It cuts down on that weird imbalance that can happen because of level differences in the party.

So, the OP is playing a "Thief" which, iirc is the actual name of what we now call the "Rogue" class.  And it had always been my understanding, in the lore of the DnD universe, it is the personality of a character that draws them to a class.  A deft-handed scamp that grows up making his living by stealing food or money to survive and learning to hide in shadows from guards is the kind of person that grows into the Rogue/Thief class.

Therefore, it is only natural that that person continues to act like a Rogue/Thief.  I never punish a player for picking pockets in my game.  Their character might be punished should they pick the wrong pocket and get caught.

In regards to your numbered points:

1. Like GelatinousOctahedron mentioned above my post, ask if the DM wouldn't just rather set a time frame when PC's level up.  If everybody levels up at the same time then nobody should get butt-hurt because someone is levelling faster or slower.

2.  The DM shouldn't punish any class for acting like their class.  Thieves and rogues pick pockets, it's what they do.  Also, any thief knows you're only going to get chump change lifting wallets, the real money comes from big heists / scores.  The DM isn't wrong in that regard, imo.  But I still think it's wrong for anyone to be punished for playing to their class.

However,  your behavior of combat looting (and as such picking pockets) could be detrimental to your group synergy.  Does your character truly care so little about his companions that he is willing to risk shortening his time with the group by stealing from them (in a way, by taking what they can't have in combat).  This, though, is a good opportunity to role-play and flesh out the character though.  Perhaps early on this rogue doesn't feel the bonds of fellowship and does what he must to survive, but later on his behavior might wane, finding it less necessary or even rude to take from the party when they aren't watching.

Here's a thought: Are there any lawful good characters in the party?  Because, what if your purse-snatching behavior contributed to the party loot?  I can think of more than a few groups from movies/comics/books etc. where they all approved of having a thief of sorts in the party so that they could all eat for the day.

3.  You dropped an AC, is that really bad?  Although the "better define my role in a group" line makes me nervous. 

I think, and this is my opinion, that there's a minor personality clash happening here between you and the DM.  You want to be a thief, being disruptive might not be your intent, but the DM perceives it as such.  The DM has some kind of problem with characters acting outside the norm (maybe a bit prudish ? Tongue Out ), and as such is trying to push you into a role.  His pushing is gonna make you push back, where he'll push back, then you'll push harder, he'll push harder, things will escalate, you'll rage on the forums, and a party split will happen.

I'm siding with you, but I'm probably jumping to conclusions about your DM.  (Because every time I see a forum post about a DM that only allows "good characters" in his game, I think the guy's a tightly wound something or other who just can't handle reality, or has a limited imagination when it comes to the spectrum of good/evil/and everything in between.)
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...



Easy solution.  Stop being evil.

Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief.  You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The campaign is 2.0, I really like the pickpocket table idea, and will bring that up to him next week. Also the level payout idea could fix a LOT of the problems the current DM is having (its his like 2nd time DMing -_-)
As for the combat looting, what I was intending on doing is taking my share and just making it a little bigger. that way its not split evenly, however because the amount I did get was so small it wasnt even worth sharing

Thanks for the ideas =D
 

As for the combat looting, what I was intending on doing is taking my share and just making it a little bigger. that way its not split evenly, however because the amount I did get was so small it wasnt even worth sharing

Thanks for the ideas =D
 


So what you're saying is that at the same time that you ARE taking more then your share, you are also trying to make it sound like you're not.
Bit confused.  

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1. Even in second we had to house rule this where everyone just leveled up as the fighter with each class needing same xp to level before it was cool! (Little hipster humor there) and got rid of the rouge bonus xp thing where they got xp for every gp they stolen only because with those rules a rogue could be 4-5th level before the rest of the party left town for the first dungeon at level 1.

2. Have to agree with him there as well, doing it once in while to get an important item, or small handful of coins to go to local tavern is alright. But most people do "I look for richest looking guy wandering streets and PP him" every time its your turn hoping to get  millions of gold a night is retard. So we even house ruled you can ony get some much silver/gold per day.

3. AC in 2nd was suppose to go lower, though with some items they said +1 (which meant you got -1) and some items said -1 in which you were suppose to get the -1. But if you did get a bad item, just play more and see if it keeps happening.

This also depends on how you play in which you gave us no info. Are the the standard evil rogue? Screwing over the rest of party and stealing there items? Planning to kill them in their sleep so you wins d&d? Think to just stay in town to PP nobles all day and get rich while rest of PCs have 5-10gp to their name? Killing innocents and guards in town all day just for fun? This type of play is pretty average in newer players as their ideal of "fun" (and saddly even some vet players) but it often annoys the DM and other players. Its possable your getting "bad items" also cause of the play style and it might be the dms form of revenge (which is bad dming and he should talk to you oocly instead of punishing you in game).
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...



Easy solution.  Stop being evil.

Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief.  You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.



Isn't the whole point of being a thief is to loot more then anybody else? 

Also how being greedy is evil? ;) 
So I just joined a campaign about 2 weeks ago as a thief, the DM wasnt expecting anyone to play anything even remotely "evil" for his campaign and thusly I have been encountering numerous problems...



Easy solution.  Stop being evil.

Just because your character is of the class 'thief' doesn't mean he has to be a thief.  You don't have to be greedy and want more than your fair share of the loot.



Isn't the whole point of being a thief is to loot more then anybody else?



No.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Have to go with Salla on that one. The point of being the the rogue is being the skills man and the scout. Speically in 2nd ed when most classes didnt even have the option to sneak around, pick a lock, or disarming a trap. Everyone no matter the class should have equal shares of wealth and stuff like stealing, investing, etc should be another small source of income yes, but it shouldnt throw you into wealth vaule that throws the game into turmoil.
        Honestly without the aspect of getting more than usual there is no point to being a thief. If I were to play a goody-two-shoes than I'm not needed in the party's group. Yeah early on in the campain thieves are the only ones who can pick locks, but if you have a lvl2 mage, you can just cast Knock. I also know that you arent allowed to just stand in town and pick pockets all day, but by all means if im in a tavern and buy food/drinks for my party I would like to be at least able to get my money back before I leave.

        Once again for the combat looting my character does it so that when we are in town and people need repairs/potions/provisions I can offer to pay for them, thus giving them a reason to keep me around. For all they know I'm just an entrepreneur with daggers.

      As for thieves being good, that in itself is a VERY rare thing. sure some people like to play the Robin Hood whose main goal is to overthrow the oppresive rulers and give back to the people. However, 99% of all other thieves do it to survive/greed. From a roleplaying perspective I find it hard to see someone who has lived on scraps, and whatever he could steal for most of his life to give anyone else a fair share.

      I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded. If I wanted to make money the normal way I would've rolled a fighter. 
 
P.S DnD 2e THIEF is an actual subclass of rogue, if I was just a rogue I could see myself being more of the scout/spy but I'm not. Imma thief.
P.S DnD 2e THIEF is an actual subclass of rogue, if I was just a rogue I could see myself being more of the scout/spy but I'm not. Imma thief.



Your class name has no bearing whatsoever on your character's personality.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
        Honestly without the aspect of getting more than usual there is no point to being a thief.



Completely untrue.  There is NEVER a good excuse to screw over your fellow teammates.

If I were to play a goody-two-shoes than I'm not needed in the party's group. Yeah early on in the campain thieves are the only ones who can pick locks, but if you have a lvl2 mage, you can just cast Knock. I also know that you arent allowed to just stand in town and pick pockets all day, but by all means if im in a tavern and buy food/drinks for my party I would like to be at least able to get my money back before I leave.



Why?  You were provided goods and services; those who provided them are entitled to just compensation.  Your character is an ass.

 
      Once again for the combat looting my character does it so that when we are in town and people need repairs/potions/provisions I can offer to pay for them, thus giving them a reason to keep me around. For all they know I'm just an entrepreneur with daggers.



It would be better if they kept you around because you were a  good, reliable teammate.

 
    As for thieves being good, that in itself is a VERY rare thing.



PC's are by definition exceptional.

sure some people like to play the Robin Hood whose main goal is to overthrow the oppresive rulers and give back to the people. However, 99% of all other thieves do it to survive/greed. From a roleplaying perspective I find it hard to see someone who has lived on scraps, and whatever he could steal for most of his life to give anyone else a fair share.



Then don't play a character with that background.

  


Then don't play a character with that background.

  
  I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded.[/quote[

Then stop trying.  You won't get arrested, and the DM will stop disliking your extremely-dislikeable character.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Well if thats the case why do I even have pickpocket? Actually, in that manner, why not make is so that the ONLY alignments you can choose from are Nuet/Lawful/Chaotic/Good and just throw out evil. If you choose to play an evil char you shouldn't be penalized for it, you're just roleplaying well.
Pickpocket has many uses over getting your fingers into a coinpurse (which is why I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy when they finally called it sleight of hand) quickly switching items, coin tricks, hiding something from view thats in your hand, etc. If Pick pocket was a cure all for infident gold then no one would be any other class.

Funny thing is at first the evil alignment was there for completion and was never meant to be picked by PCs in first place. Im not saying "Dont be evil" There is many evil players that are just selflish, have no compassion or empathy, etc. Just do it in moderation and remember, even evil people have friends they would never stab in back or screw over for a few coins. When someone ask you to save the town and the rest of the party is doing it cause its right you tell the quest giver "Ill do it for some gold".
So, everything Salla has said.

Well if thats the case why do I even have pickpocket? Actually, in that manner, why not make is so that the ONLY alignments you can choose from are Nuet/Lawful/Chaotic/Good and just throw out evil.



I've done that as a DM.

If you choose to play an evil char you shouldn't be penalized for it, you're just roleplaying well.



There is a difference between good roleplaying and disruptive roleplaying.

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57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
Well if thats the case why do I even have pickpocket? Actually, in that manner, why not make is so that the ONLY alignments you can choose from are Nuet/Lawful/Chaotic/Good and just throw out evil. .



That is, in fact, my SOP.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I have played a rogue before who PP his teammates all the time (i always gave it back) because simply he wanted to teach them to always be aware. He was just really good at his craft,which happened to be stealing and to a lesser extent assassinations when he was a merc for hire and eventually our DM gave them all plus 2 to perceptions because after being around the troublemaking rogue and having watched him steal and got PPed from too much they eventually learned what to watch for.And many a good time/town nearly destroyed because of him.The DM loved being able to turn something i would do into a story plot hook or quest.He wasnt really evil or greedy he just loved to use his skills,eventually he found irreplaceable friends,who would rez him when he sacrificed his life to save thiers on the many occasions where stealth and subtley did more then magic or brute force. So my suggestion for your thief is to talk to your DM let him know your intentions with this character  and try to reach a mutual agreement.

A DM should never penalize the player for his choice of class or how he plays it as long as its not sucking everyone elses fun.The DM should go with the flow more,it makes for some good times when you may have just PPed the next BBEG and accidently  stolen something important to his plans.
Stupid monocle that turned out to be a phylactery...i just wanted a nice monocle to blend in and look sophiscated...
If everyone (DM and every single player) is ok with stealing from other people in the party, then knock yourself out.  Don't be a total jerk about it or anything, but have fun.  Same thing with playing an evil PC.

If either the DM or another player in the group is not ok with it, then don't do it.  It will mean someone at the group is not having fun with your PCs behavior and the default in the game is that PCs are heroes..

I have played with people who played theives that stole from other group members in character and have had the only evil PC in a party that was not evil.   Everyone agreed that this was ok from the beginning and in each case we all knew each other pretty well going in so we had fun.
        Honestly without the aspect of getting more than usual there is no point to being a thief.



Completely untrue.  There is NEVER a good excuse to screw over your fellow teammates.

Why?  You were provided goods and services; those who provided them are entitled to just compensation.  Your character is an ass.

It would be better if they kept you around because you were a  good, reliable teammate.


  I get the fact that I shouldn't be able to buy a castle with the things I steal from pickpocketing, but honestly 10-15 copper an attempt isnt worth the chance that I get caught and beheaded.



Then stop trying.  You won't get arrested, and the DM will stop disliking your extremely-dislikeable character.



You have no idea what an evil selfish thief is do you? The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a -group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs- game. If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink, than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing so. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.

Also thanks to everyone for the ACTUAL advice as to what would help out my situation, without just saying dont do it.
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />You have no idea what an evil selfish thief is do you?



Evidently, an inappropriate character for this campaign.

The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs game.



Yes, and of course, those are the only only options, with nothing in between.  There can't possibly be a spectrum of possibilities with characters who are flawed, but still essentially heroic.  You've opened my eyes, thank you for the enlightenment.  There are only the extremes, how could I have not seen this in something like thirty years of playing RPGs?

If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing it. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.



You're the one causing problems in the game.  You're the one impeding everybody else's fun, and as a game, D&D is supposed to be fun for everybody.  If you're getting your jollies by screwing over the other players, then this is YOUR problem, not theirs.

It's simple: not all characters are appropriate for all games.  Your character, obviously, is not appropriate for the kind of game the DM wants to run.  If I'm running a grim-and-gritty street-level Punisher style of superhero game, Superman is not appropriate.  If I'm running a four-color Justice League superhero game, then The Punisher is not appropriate.   You either need to adjust your character's attitude, or make a new one, or quit.

Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
 Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?


As a thief, who gets thrown into a group of 4 people he doesnt know, has no respect for (YET) and really could care less if they died, its reasonable that I would in fact steal some small things. And as their reason for keeping me around is as simple as I buy all their provisions. Granted it was with money that should've gone to them in the first place. I'm not stealing EVERY thing because eventually they would figure it out, and I would be instakilled. Also they dont notice me stealing, and since they know the difference between IC and OOC, they arent really offended by it. Sure if a broadsword of instant killing drops, I would let the fighters fight for it. I'm not impeding anyones fun, it's just neither I nor the DM knew what to do to make things more 'balanced' another reason why I posted initially. If you truly have a problem with peoples characters being distastefull than you should be playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island, and not D&D. Every character is going to be different and have flaws, whats my characters flaw? Well, obviously that he grew up stealing, thats all he really knows, why would he stop now?
As the Druid of the group, your "No Evil allowed' babblefish is really irritating.  Our DM left no restrictions on what we play or how we play it.  We were told that we could play any class we wished.  I, in fact was going to play a Thief/Rogue as well (granted I was going to be Chaotic Netural) until OP had already stated he had rolled a Thief.  I saw no real need for two of us, and the other classes chosen were Ranger, Warrior, and Mage.  Seeing we needed some form of healing and spiritual guidance, but not settling for a mere Priest, I had the numbers to become a Druid and so I chose that path.

Anyways, despite the previous statement stating that our DM placed no restrictions on alignment (other than class requireds [Ranger, Paladin, Druid]) he has slowly been modifying his rules and actions to severely hamper OP's ability to roleplay his character (which I tend to enjoy watching him roleplay as it does provide *most* of the group with entertainment. [I say most as the DM does not like allowing him many oportunities to properly perfom his abilities in align with his abilities, and the DM's wife [the Ranger] constantly glares at OP and the Warrior, and doesn't much approve of much role play that doesn't coincide with her way of thinking.] Though the rest of the group does.)


The whole reason why I posted was because I was trying to roleplay an EVIL character, and was being penalized for it. D&D is a ROLEPLAYING game, not a group of 5 merry-go-lucky adventures group together to fight off the forces of evil with hugs game.



Yes, and of course, those are the only only options, with nothing in between.  There can't possibly be a spectrum of possibilities with characters who are flawed, but still essentially heroic.  You've opened my eyes, thank you for the enlightenment.  There are only the extremes, how could I have not seen this in something like thirty years of playing RPGs?





Nat20 resist sarcasm roll. (oh yeah, we're playing AD&D 2nd Ed.  so a Nat 1 to resist.)

That was unnecessary, the issue here is he is trying to properly RP the way he designed his character, after informing the DM his alignment, and the DM is going out of his way to prohibit OP from doing many, many things that would be 'IC'.



If I feel that my character would rip off the tavern keeper to get a free drink than by all means thats good roleplaying by doing it. What you are trying to suggest is that all characters are righteous paladins and that would never screw anyone over intentionally. Which im sure in some campaigns that may be so, but from my point of view, that is a bad campaign.



You're the one causing problems in the game.  You're the one impeding everybody else's fun, and as a game, D&D is supposed to be fun for everybody.  If you're getting your jollies by screwing over the other players, then this is YOUR problem, not theirs.


 



Again, as I said before, OP is *NOT* causing issues in the game.  The DM is causing the problems.



It's simple: not all characters are appropriate for all games.  Your character, obviously, is not appropriate for the kind of game the DM wants to run.  If I'm running a grim-and-gritty street-level Punisher style of superhero game, Superman is not appropriate.  If I'm running a four-color Justice League superhero game, then The Punisher is not appropriate.   You either need to adjust your character's attitude, or make a new one, or quit.

Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?




If this character is "not appropriate" for this game, then perhaps the DM should have placed that restriction prior to enabling the character to enter the world, instead of making it VERY unfair to OP and the players that want to see OP RP his character the way he intended, and the way we know he should be, as well as he *SHOULD* be a higher level than the group, since a Thief in AD&D 2nd Ed. has a lower XP req to level.

And why do we not "ditch' him 'IC'"??  Because he has a certain skill set that none of us posess, and is currently invaluable to the group.  In addition, aside from combat looting, most his 'evil' actions are typically done when none of the group is around him.

P.S. the ring I acquired was a DM crafted item with (lesser) Weather Control spell imprinted.
 Additionally, let me ask you this ... in-character, why would the rest of the party not simply ditch you?


As a thief, who gets thrown into a group of 4 people he doesnt know, has no respect for (YET) and really could care less if they died, its reasonable that I would in fact steal some small things. And as their reason for keeping me around is as simple as I buy all their provisions. Granted it was with money that should've gone to them in the first place. I'm not stealing EVERY thing because eventually they would figure it out, and I would be instakilled. Also they dont notice me stealing, and since they know the difference between IC and OOC, they arent really offended by it. Sure if a broadsword of instant killing drops, I would let the fighters fight for it. I'm not impeding anyones fun, it's just neither I nor the DM knew what to do to make things more 'balanced' another reason why I posted initially. If you truly have a problem with peoples characters being distastefull than you should be playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island, and not D&D. Every character is going to be different and have flaws, whats my characters flaw? Well, obviously that he grew up stealing, thats all he really knows, why would he stop now?



Your options remain the same.  Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Your options remain the same.  Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.

Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.

Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D
Your options remain the same.  Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.

Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.

Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D



IF you roleplay properly, Evil PCs cause conflicts with  Good PCs. Simple. Yes, EVIL BAD, if the rest of the group is good.


Oh and I liked that remark about Hello Kitty. 
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
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Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
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141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
And thats the challenge and the fun part of it for me. =D How do I do evil things without getting caught. 
And thats the challenge and the fun part of it for me. =D How do I do evil things without getting caught. 




You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil?  Sitting in town waiting?  

EDIT: And a closeted evil char is gonna have a heckuva time pretending to be good whenever he's not evildoing. 

"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)


Again, as I said before, OP is *NOT* causing issues in the game.  The DM is causing the problem




The DM isn't the one playing an Evil character in a group that I can only assume is not evil. I don't really see how he's causing the mproblem, aside from trying to curb  a greedy PC.  

"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
Your options remain the same.  Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.

Or find a way to help the DM make things more 'balanced'. That way he sees that not everyone has to be good, and that an evil char brings things to the table that make the game more fun for everyone... like torture, hostages, shady deals, etc. (Which is why I posted in the first place, to resolve issues without having to kill off a perfectly good character for really no reason whatsoever) but those things are really hard to do when everytime I try 30 magical archers appear that are aimed at me should I try anything evil.

Also if you dont have any ideas as to how to help resolve things without "EVIL IS BAD, BAD IS NO GOOD, DONT DO IT YOU WILL DIE!" than I'm done talking to you =D



Thank God.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil?  Sitting in town waiting? 


The 'Evil' im playing is the look out for myself before others, greedy, wont do quests to help poor villagers unless i get SOMETHING in return besides gratitude evil. Not Hitler evil or stalin evil, or hell even Brain from pinky and the brain evil. just plain old selfish evil
You must spend a lot of time away from the party then, what are they doing while you are away being evil?  Sitting in town waiting? 


The 'Evil' im playing is the look out for myself before others, greedy, wont do quests to help poor villagers unless i get SOMETHING in return besides gratitude evil. Not Hitler evil or stalin evil, or hell even Brain from pinky and the brain evil. just plain old selfish evil


And this relates to my quote how........ 

"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
That im still with the party 90% of the time
That im still with the party 90% of the time



So you are evil, and yet 90 percent of the time you have no problem being good?
"The real purpose of socialism is precisely to overcome and advance beyond the predatory phase of human development." -Albert Einstein Resident Left Hand of Stalin and Banana Stand Grandstander Half of the Ambiguously Gay Duo House of Trolls, looking for a partner Wondering what happened to the Star Wars forums?
Show
Star Wars Minis has a home here http://www.bloomilk.com/ and Star Wars Saga Edition RPG has a home here http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/index.php
Show
141722973 wrote:
And it wasn't ****. It was subjectively concensual sex.
57036828 wrote:
Marketing and design are two different things. For instance the snuggy was designed for people in wheel chairs and marketed to people that are too incompetent to operate a blanket.
75239035 wrote:
I personally don't want him decapitated.
141722973 wrote:
And do not call me a Yank. I am a Québecois, basically your better.
And the greatest post moderation of all time...
58115148 wrote:
I gave that (Content Removed) a to-scale Lego replica. (Content Removed) love to-scale Lego replicas. (ORC_Cerberus: Edited - Vulgarity is against the Code of Conduct)
I think you've gotten some decent advice here.  This is a rather hackneyed character concept most long time gamers have seen on more than one occasion.  In my experience its usually players new to a group and who quickly exit.  I would bet your dm is merely reacting to the fact he expected a more cooperative game from his players.

There is plenty of room for inter party conflict but most often it isn't a real big winner.  As a new member to the group going straight to the more disruptive characters isn't the wisest choice.

Honestly i wouldn't be surprised that Daementos_Stargazer is not in fact csnick, at least by looking at the join date of Daementos
 
i understand where the OP is coming from when its down to his character, and i mean this is turning into an alignment debate almost. being "evil" without running around raping the churches and burning the women type evil isnt nesscarily evil, he may not be a "good" person either, but he still is a more for oneself type person without being either of those. im not seeing any real evil acts yet, besides my atrocious sentence structure. Salla has given sound advice,hes not suggesting a radical comeplete overhaul change of character, but something more in fitting with the campaign.Explain to the DM how you feel and let him know your willing to compromise and change a couple things if he will lift up some of these restrictions.


The DM isn't the one playing an Evil character in a group that I can only assume is not evil. I don't really see how he's causing the problem, aside from trying to curb a greedy PC.   





obviously he's not playing the character, but when as a group we loot 20 gold from 3-4 creatures we kill.  Then there is a wholesale slaughter of 18 Orcs and a Half-Ogre, the Thief distracts the groups attention to a stockpile of food (just having rescued starved prisoners) he goes and loots the coin purses off all the bodies and gets a grand total of 20 SILVER?  If instead it would have been a group loot, there would have been closer to 40 GOLD.  How could the loot table be so drastically skewed on the same corpses?   

And again, not to mention the fact of the original mention of the first post...  The Mage gets a Bag of Holding (250 lbs), I (the Druid) get a Ring of (lesser) Weather Control, the Fighter gets a near indestructible Bastard Sword that has no weight and a +1 Shield with an unknown magical enchantment, and the Ranger gets a bow that has a Pre-initiative attack bonus (so 3 attacks every round), then the Thief gets a Spidersilk Shirt that provides a -1 AC.

Now if you're wondering about how they killed that many Orcs, the Ranger (the DMs wife) had chosen Orcs as her Favored Enemy (so +4 To Hit +2 Damage) and then he gave her the bow knowing they would be going to face Orcs.  The rest of the party kinda just stands around while she just mows them down in a hail of arrows.


 

i understand where the OP is coming from when its down to his character, and i mean this is turning into an alignment debate almost. being "evil" without running around raping the churches and burning the women type evil isnt nesscarily evil, he may not be a "good" person either, but he still is a more for oneself type person without being either of those. im not seeing any real evil acts yet, besides my atrocious sentence structure. Salla has given sound advice,hes not suggesting a radical comeplete overhaul change of character, but something more in fitting with the campaign.Explain to the DM how you feel and let him know your willing to compromise and change a couple things if he will lift up some of these restrictions.



Let me refer you to this statment:


Your options remain the same.  Adjust your character's behavior, change characters, or quit.


 
Changing characters or quitting would be considered a major overhaul, imo.
Which brings us neatly around to 'change the character's behavior'.  Dial back the greedy douchebaggery.

Of course, I begin to suspect that, if the way the OP is behaving on this board is how he treats the DM, the DM may be trying to get rid of more than an unlikeable character.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
There was the incident where the Half-Orge attacked the Theif, hitting for 12 damage, breaking the Thief's arm, knocking him down.  The Warrior runs over critically hits the Half-Ogre and kills it and the DM responds:  "Well, there went that plan.  His next attack was going to be on you again to kill you."