Can you sunder a magic weapon with a lesser enhanced magic weapon?

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I have this nagging bit in my head.

Is it possible to sunder a +2 sword if you are using a +1 sword?

I seem to recall a rule that states that you have to have an equally or greater magical weapon to do that.  I can't find the rule now, though.

In the same vein, if I have a +2 sword, and you have a +1 flaming sword, can you sunder mine?  Do the non-enhancement bonuses count?

I have only used sunder once - a hill giant cleric destroyed the PC's brand new Lion's Shield (before he EVER got to use it).  But that was years ago. 

Thanks.

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I have this nagging bit in my head.

Is it possible to sunder a +2 sword if you are using a +1 sword?

I seem to recall a rule that states that you have to have an equally or greater magical weapon to do that.  I can't find the rule now, though.

In the same vein, if I have a +2 sword, and you have a +1 flaming sword, can you sunder mine?  Do the non-enhancement bonuses count?

I have only used sunder once - a hill giant cleric destroyed the PC's brand new Lion's Shield (before he EVER got to use it).  But that was years ago. 

Thanks.


It'st totally possible. Just hardness and HP matter (and in this case, the +2 sword has more of those than the +1 flaming sword). 

In 3e (pre-3.5), you couldn't damage higher-enhancement swords, but then again, "Sunder" was a feat then. They reworked it a lot in the revision. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

In 3.5 the answer is a resounding YES!!!

The important thing to find is the section on hardness where you'll see that the more +X a weapon has the harder it becomes and with that hardness the ability to shake off more damage.  It also grants more hitpoints so a bigger +X usually takes longer to break.

If Sundering is on your radar you really need to pay attention to Adamantine weapons.  A weapon made of that material gets to ignore hardness 20 or less which makes many weapons very vulnerable to it.  That material is also very hard to items made from it are very difficult to destroy.
   
It makes me kinda sad that sunder has fallen by the wayside, much like trip and disarm (barring some games).  Most people seem to prefer the whole head-on approach to combat...sometimes, it's not the best option.  During a game, our DM threw a barghest at us (with hobgoblin allies);  my poor Druid couldn't really do much to it (since Druid spells aren't exactly the best at that point against something with damage reduction), so my only choice was a trip.  Amazingly, it worked, so when the thing tried to stand, our heavy hitters took chunks out of it.
It makes me kinda sad that sunder has fallen by the wayside, much like trip and disarm (barring some games).  Most people seem to prefer the whole head-on approach to combat...sometimes, it's not the best option.  During a game, our DM threw a barghest at us (with hobgoblin allies);  my poor Druid couldn't really do much to it (since Druid spells aren't exactly the best at that point against something with damage reduction), so my only choice was a trip.  Amazingly, it worked, so when the thing tried to stand, our heavy hitters took chunks out of it.


Tripping is easily the most powerful "basic" technique available to warriors, and huge numbers of characters exist that either specialize in it or use it as a heavy subfocus. This is particularly obvious on AoO tanks - those who use Combat Reflexes and methods of maximizing your number of AoOs - who tend to use their AoOs to trip targets, which effectively 'locks down' the enemy. (You can't use an AoO to trip an already-prone target, so if they try to stand you can't respond with a trip. But if they stand up, you can whack them, then trip them when they try to escape.) The reason it's so powerful is because it denies the enemy actions, and it's reasonably easy to make it work (plus, unlike all the other "Improved X" feats, Improved Trip gives you back your attack if you succeed, meaning you're at an action advantage).

Sunder fell by the wayside because it tends to put the party behind in terms of loot, and because it really only works on humanoid targets (and hydras). It's useful in a couple of circumstances there (hydras aside, if you have a very dangerous Power Attacker, an elusive archer, or a guy behind a big shield, you can break things to turn the tide), but even there it may take more than one round to give you any real advantage, depending on the weapon.

Disarm has the same logic as sunder, except it's easier to reverse and less likely to succeed against the very character types I described above (who either use two-handed weapons or who have the shield strapped to their arm). I've seen it used successfully only three times - and two of those times involved a martial strike. (The third was against an archer who dumped Strength.)

As for the other 'basic' maneuvers, there are two (grapple and bull rush) that can be made reasonably effective (respectively on Improved Grab monsters and on Dungeon Crashers - note that both of these trigger their abilities in addition to a regular attack, so they don't cost any actions; bull rush is also useful at the lowest levels because it doesn't rely on an attack roll). Grappling is also useful against arcane and divine spellcasters (forcing them to use non-somatic spells), but is also completely shut down by a single spell (Freedom of Movement). Feinting really doesn't show up all that often, although beguilers and invisible blades can make it work. In all my years of playing, I can't think of a single time I've seen Overrun used (usually Tumble or Trample gets the job done). 

This sets aside charging, which is of course one of the cornerstones of damage dealing, and is generally more straightforward than the tactics discussed here. It also sets aside most discussion on the Tome of Battle, which has all of these mixed in with its maneuvers, usually in effective ways (tripping in Setting Sun, disarming and sundering in Iron Heart, grapple in Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw, and charge, bull rush and overrun in Stone Dragon - Diamond Mind includes variant takes on feinting).

In fact, if you want to see a single build that does nearly all of this - charging, bull-rushing, tripping, and sundering - virtually all the time, look at the Pinball Brothers link in my signature.

I'm not sure why you'd say tripping isn't used. 

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

I'm not sure why you'd say tripping isn't used. 



Mostly because, from what I've seen (both on the boards and in real life), the style of the day is head-on smashing unless the thing is obviously defended against that option.  Even my DM was surprised when I broke out the trip option, if that tells you anything.

I've also kept up on your posts, Tempest, and I was immediately intrigued by the Pinball Brothers, since the other attack options have always struck my fancy. 
As Tempest mentions a BIG reason that Sunder doesn't get used is because "IT DESTROYS TREASURE!!!!!!!"  Admittedly it is only useful against certain types of targets but with an adamantine weapon and the Improved Sunder feat it is incredibly useful against those targets.  Now PC may not mind using it against a hill giant's club but if a PC uses it against that powerful knight wielding a highly enchanted weapon (never mind the enchantments) the rest of the group often screams murder and DEMANDS that the "lost" treasure all comes out of the offending PCs share.  Now I try to minimize that by allowing "destroyed" items to be repaired and keep (at least most of) the magic the item had when it was rendered useless.  I'd also introduce means to transfer enchantments from one item to another to keep the valuable part of a magic item useful.
I'd also introduce means to transfer enchantments from one item to another to keep the valuable part of a magic item useful.

Totally off the original thread topic, but I'm interested in how you would reccommend doing this. Would this be a service offered by a select few NPCs with a feat similar to Craft Magic Item, or some form of a higher-level arcane spell that would cost xp that could become available to the players?
Currently DMing a 3.5e AoW game one night a week. Players are almost through Three Faces of Evil. If you are considering beginning this campaign using this edition, I can help.
I'd also introduce means to transfer enchantments from one item to another to keep the valuable part of a magic item useful.

Totally off the original thread topic, but I'm interested in how you would reccommend doing this. Would this be a service offered by a select few NPCs with a feat similar to Craft Magic Item, or some form of a higher-level arcane spell that would cost xp that could become available to the players?

I know 2ed has a spell "Steal Enchantment" in its Tome of Magic that could transfer things so having a spell available that could do it (subject to a save by the item trying to "hold on" to it's magic; remember items have saves too) isn't unreasonable.  I'm not even sure it should cost any XP because I'd be taking the magic from one item and putting into a NON-MAGICAL item that could otherwise hold it; for example you could take the enchantments from a small magical dagger and transfer them to the large, masterwork greatsword.  I don't know what level I'd make this spell but I'd probably shoot for 4th or 5th level for a basic version and have a higher level version that works with more certainty.

In addition to having a single spell that can just pick the enchantment out of an item and transfer it into a new item I'd be for having a more "hands on" method of doing it.  I guess some of this is in the realm of the Artificer class where you can "break down" one item to help build another so I'm not entire sure how to do this but the idea of using a magic item to build another should be usable my anyway to some degree.

I'll again point out that my reason for allowing enchantments to transfer, even if there is some small cost involved, is to keep things usable while allowing variety.  I know some DMs may cringe but how useful is a +3 tiny Vorpal Dagger to your typical party?  It's value is very comprable to a +3 vorpal greatsword (medium sized) yet one the party can likely use while the other is just "gold in a stick" that they'd have to see despite its full potential (hopefully) being used against them.
  
I'd also introduce means to transfer enchantments from one item to another to keep the valuable part of a magic item useful.

Totally off the original thread topic, but I'm interested in how you would reccommend doing this. Would this be a service offered by a select few NPCs with a feat similar to Craft Magic Item, or some form of a higher-level arcane spell that would cost xp that could become available to the players?


Another way to look at it would be to steal the Magic Item Compendium's augment gems, which are already pretty close to this idea, but designed in the context of an already-existing enhancement system. Rather than an ephemeral magic effect attached to the final item, enhancements become actual physical objects that are attached to the item, with more expensive items having the ability to support more of these objects before something bad happens. More powerful enhancements might take up multiple "slots" or require a minimum degree of workmanship - this could be the enhancement bonus, or something totally different if enhancement bonuses are themselves one such augment object. (The MIC does this to some extent: Masterwork items can accommodate a least gem, +1 items can accommodate a lesser gem, and +3 items can accommodate a greater gem.) Alternatively, you can key it to the enhancement bonus, similar to how 4e does it: a Flaming object attached to a +1 sword is merely flaming, but attach it to a +3 sword and you get Flaming Burst. You can even have an individual object have different effects if it's attached to different types of items: the same object that makes a sword Flaming might make a suit of armor resistant to fire, a cloak produce a fire aura, or a set of gloves that can throw small fireballs. In order to make magic item enchanting more "wizardly" and less slot-based, even though these objects would require the appropriate crafting feat to create, you could simply create an "Enchant" or "Disenchant" spell that actually activates or deactivates these objects. (For instance, you Disenchant the looted axe and recover all of its augments, find the one that gives you the ability you want, Disenchant your own sword, plug in the object, then cast Enchant to activate all of them.) Attach a small cost to the Enchant and Disenchant spell (perhaps a function of how powerful the target item is, or how many slots it has, or how many occupied slots it has), or add a chance of failure (damaging the item or the augments) and it ceases to be a trivial matter, but still becomes much more accessable than the current system.

This has the side-effect of having a lot of possible hooks to campaign-building. Eberron comes close to this already (dragonshards are supposed to be found in a huge range of magic items, but they're hardly universal - even with that, prospecting for assorted types of dragonshards is a big business), but non-D&D fantasy is full of this sort of MacGuffin. (It didn't occur to me until I wrote this paragraph that this system works out very, very similar to Final Fantasy 7's Materia system, for instance.)

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

Weekly Optimization Series

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These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
[TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC)
[TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods)
[TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability)
[AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme)
[AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage)
[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)

[TS] Holy Fire: Just getting warmed up! (Casting, damage, theme (fire), theme (sacred), blasting)

[TS] Groundhog Mage: ♪Let’s do the time warp again♪ (Casting, stunt, setting-specific (Faerun), spell stamina / versatility, spontaneous wizard)

[RT] Captain Charisma: All she wants to do is dance (Hybrid (melee/support), SAD, Theme (criticals), Theme (flex-style)

[TS] Assassin's Speed: A blade in the crowd (Melee (technical), iaijutsu, SAD, theme (Assassin's Creed), tutorial)

 

Want to see how the entire group rolls?
[All] Party Optimization Showcase: Dead for Nothing
[TS/RT/AR] Optimization Article: The Flash Step
[RT] Optimization Article: Kung Fu Witchcraft

 

Seishi: I think it might be fun to have a one-off [game] tuned fairly, but with the intention of wiping the party. 

DisposableHero_: if [my campaign] has taught me nothing else, it is that with this group, nothing tuned fairly will ever wipe the party

RadicalTaoist: I've been throwing **** at this group that's 5 levels over CRed in DFN, and have yet to wipe the party.

This has the side-effect of having a lot of possible hooks to campaign-building. Eberron comes close to this already (dragonshards are supposed to be found in a huge range of magic items, but they're hardly universal - even with that, prospecting for assorted types of dragonshards is a big business), but non-D&D fantasy is full of this sort of MacGuffin. (It didn't occur to me until I wrote this paragraph that this system works out very, very similar to Final Fantasy 7's Materia system, for instance.)

Actually, it sounds almost identical to the method used in an actual WotC D&D product - Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2 (I don't remember if they used in 1 also).  It takes runestones to be able to enchant anything (1 for +1, doubling for every late plus), plus other gems give additional abilities, based on the item.  Boots, necklaces, and rings boost ability scores; gloves, weapons, necklaces, and rings increase combat prowess; armor, helms, and shields increase defense.  When you "break" the enchanted item, it costs money, but you get all the gems in the item; you don't keep the runestones.  If you had an appropriate crafting feat I don't see why you wouldn't be able to keep the money & runestones in place of XP, though.
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User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls