Monroe Community College's 4e Party

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At monroe community college, a fledgling D & D club will be starting this fall. Here are our current players.

Thaver Angelbane, Level 1 Tiefling Chaos Sorcerer
LE, Lolth
(Was CE, but I changed that. He was fooling around I later learned.)

Zinna Thornsong, Level 1 Shifter (Longtooth) Wild Warden
CG, Melora
(Played by my Girlfriend, the only female character and player so far. The least experienced.)

Blit Abesha, Level 1 Gnome Rogue (?)
Unknown Alignment, Unknown if a worshipper of anything
(On probation until he gives me his background)

Willamin Wyvernjack, Level 8 Half-elf Two Blade Ranger
CG, Sort of follows Bahamut
(Racial Trait swapped for a unique power. Played by me.)

More detailed things will arrive when my laptop returns from being repaired.

Feel free to ask about the campaign or anything that interests you about the players!

And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
Why is one of your characters level 8?
Oh my, this is rich. Yes, let's hear about the DM PC that's 7 levels above the rest of the party. Then tell us more about why you decided to start this thread. Oooh, and then tell us what your Half Orc's unique racial power is!
Why is one of your characters level 8?



Because he probably thinks it'll make him a badass.

Oh my, this is rich. Yes, let's hear about the DM PC that's 7 levels above the rest of the party. Then tell us more about why you decided to start this thread. Oooh, and then tell us what your Half Orc's unique racial power is!



I'm sure it's "Auto-Nuke Team Monster" the best power in the game, haven't you heard of it?


Why in the Nine Hells is this trash in CharOp? Please, please enlighten me.


RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Why is one of your characters level 8?



Because he probably thinks it'll make him a badass.

Oh my, this is rich. Yes, let's hear about the DM PC that's 7 levels above the rest of the party. Then tell us more about why you decided to start this thread. Oooh, and then tell us what your Half Orc's unique racial power is!



I'm sure it's "Auto-Nuke Team Monster" the best power in the game, haven't you heard of it?


Why in the Nine Hells is this trash in CharOp? Please, please enlighten me.



Now hold on, if we're too vitriolic right off the bat then he'll (quite justifiably) leave without answering any of my questions, which I'm genuinely curious about.

Yeah, this is CharOp, we're here to help optimise, right? Wouldn't it be more optimal to have a level 30 DM PC instead of a level 8 one? And why not make it a dragon instead of a half-orc?
Now hold on, if we're too vitriolic right off the bat then he'll (quite justifiably) leave without answering any of my questions, which I'm genuinely curious about.



Zelink didn't jump in quick enough, so I had to take a shot in his honor. As for answering your questions, we'll see what the excuse is 'if' he shows back up.

Yeah, this is CharOp, we're here to help optimise, right? Wouldn't it be more optimal to have a level 30 DM PC instead of a level 8 one? And why not make it a dragon instead of a half-orc?



Seriously, a Dragon? Surely an awesomely epic DMPC of this capacity requires Pun-Pun. Laughing
RIP George! 4-21-11 RIP Abie! 1-2-13
Funny Forum Quotes
[quote author=82733368 post=532127449]
58115148 wrote:
"You notice a large piece of mold clinging to your toothbrush. What do you do?" "I cast Fireball." "I run like hell!
63797881 wrote:
The standard d4 is somewhat (SOMEWHAT) rounded on the top, the older models are even flat. The Lego is shaped in such a way that in an emergency, you can use one as a makeshift surgical knife.
147742801 wrote:
57457938 wrote:
My wife asked me if her pants made her look fat. What do you think I said?
Wife: Do these pants make me look fat? RedSiegfried: I just killed a bunch of orc women and children.
63797881 wrote:
82733368 wrote:
28.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character (Monk or otherwise) does not require my character to be completely shitfaced, no matter what the name (and fun interpretation) implies.
29.) Making a "Drunken Master" style character does not require ME to be completely tanked, no matter how "in-character" I want to be..
Wow, I was about to get really excited since I live literally a mile from MCC(Rochester right?)
The Iconic Vampire
On Overleveled DMPCs
 
You don't need a D&D game to make people watch you pleasure yourself.
Stay thirsty, my friends. 
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Iconic Vampire



Iconic Vampire is like pizza. Bad Iconic Vampire is still ok, good Iconic Vampire is great, but well-crafted artisan Iconic Vampire is mouth-watering, succulent ambrosia. And that was delicious.

But yeah, if it wasn't a 10 hour drive, I would personally come by and slap the DMPC that gives himself 7 extra levels and a personalized encounter power. I know Furious Assault isn't gamechanging, but come on man. Seriously?

[Necessary wrong forum comment here.]
Awww. The sweet memories this thread brings back. I fully approve, and I would love to learn more about the half-orcs background, motivations and his awsome racial ability. Does he enjoy sitting in a corner with a hood veiling his face in mysterious shadow while sipping a good pipe of longbottom leaf?

Now hold on, if we're too vitriolic right off the bat then he'll (quite justifiably) leave without answering any of my questions, which I'm genuinely curious about.



Zelink didn't jump in quick enough, so I had to take a shot in his honor. As for answering your questions, we'll see what the excuse is 'if' he shows back up.

Yeah, this is CharOp, we're here to help optimise, right? Wouldn't it be more optimal to have a level 30 DM PC instead of a level 8 one? And why not make it a dragon instead of a half-orc?



Seriously, a Dragon? Surely an awesomely epic DMPC of this capacity requires Pun-Pun. Laughing



Rude :P

And no one mentioned the inevitable traps of Good and Evil PCs at the same table, and the inevitable gendered encounters between DM girlfriend and awkward PCs? ;)

10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Wow, I was about to get really excited since I live literally a mile from MCC(Rochester right?)



There's also Monroe, Michigan and probably others, but I'm also curious as to where this exactly is.
Allow me to clarify:

1. I am not a half orc.
2. Yes it is in Rochester
3. I'm 7 levels higher to help out, and I based it on my online character. When he levels up, so does my pen and paper one. Hence, I won't level up for a while.
4. I sort of am a d-bag, because my racial power is now Dragon transformation. I keep it in check using alignment rules and chromatic versus metallic, and only the dragon miniatures I own. So far, that is a young green, a young black, a redspawn firebelcher, a young blue, a young brass, and soon to be gargantuan white. (I need to have a big enough room for the wings, so there's more power checks there.) If I fail my rolls for transforming, I'm counted as a monster for all purposes until the difference of the roll is done.

So, if I need a roll of ten, but I roll a 7, that's 3 full rounds as a monster trying to kill my party. That's only if the dragon is not my alignment or chromatic. Seems reasonable right?

5. I put this in Char Op to show if you guys had ideas for what I can do for my players.

6. My character was raised by a dragon who taught him the ways of Bahamut in a mountain cave. He seeks to lead his adopted family (the party) to great fame and fortune. Due to his intense training, he is much more experienced than his other party members.

7.All my players get one special thing, whether it be a balanced yet powerful weapon, a cool trait, or a little thing to make them feel better. For Blit (our gnome) he learned how to forge weapons and armor from dwarves. For Thaver, it was an early epic destiny. (He got to pick it when starting his character.) Zinna I don't remember what I gave her.



Hopefully this answers most of your questions.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
So, to set the scene. Let's say you are building encounters to have some sort of challenge taking your dmpc into consideration. After all, if you build considering the rest of the party only, it will be a cakewalk with your overpowered char in the mix. Suddenly, you fail a roll by 3. You now have a party facing a drastically overpowered group trying to survive for 3 rounds...AND there's a nasty solo added to the mix trying to kill them at the same time?

This is a horrible idea. Please, please do not do this.
SERIOUSLY?! You gave an ED to a level 1 PC? Do you lack the intelligence to realize we can't help you because you are playing an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME FROM THE REST OF US.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
SERIOUSLY?! You gave an ED to a level 1 PC? Do you lack the intelligence to realize we can't help you because you are playing an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME FROM THE REST OF US.



Relax. He got to pick it early. He knew what he wanted to do, and I gave him the chance to pick it early. He gets no benefits until he reaches the proper level.

Also, to counter Vorne's opinion, for the first few levels, my character will only attack if attacked first. All xp gained from this goes directly to the PCs anyway. Also, I said I'm considered a monster. Seeing as I'm the DM, I can manipulate this to my advantage. Sometimes I'm a third party player. Sometimes I fight the players. Sometimes I fake dice rolls. I play for fun.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
If you've modded the game so much, we can't help you. Because we're playing by different rules. Significantly different rules.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Seeing as I'm the DM, I can manipulate this to my advantage

That's exactly what everybody is complaining about.

The PC's are supposed to be the star of the show, you controll the rest of the world.
Showing how awsome you can be as the DM is pointless.
If you want to make an NPC, build it as an monster, not a PC.
Player vs Player doesn't work in 4e.  The number's don't support it.
Escpecially a lvl 8 player vs lvl 1 player.

You shouldn't have this kind of mismatch.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

If you've modded the game so much, we can't help you. Because we're playing by different rules. Significantly different rules.



Really? Hmm... Perhaps you are right. I honestly see it as just taking an idea an running with it. I just wanted to give my players a bit of a gift for working with me. Of course, Lair Assaults and other events I can't use my Dragon Form in. So it can only be used in my campaign.

Seeing as I'm the DM, I can manipulate this to my advantage

That's exactly what everybody is complaining about.

The PC's are supposed to be the star of the show, you controll the rest of the world.
Showing how awsome you can be as the DM is pointless.
If you want to make an NPC, build it as an monster, not a PC.
Player vs Player doesn't work in 4e.  The number's don't support it.
Escpecially a lvl 8 player vs lvl 1 player.

You shouldn't have this kind of mismatch.



True. But my players are still the stars. I am in effect a high level companion that is their mentor. They fight and level up, and when they reach my level, they fight on equal ground. The dragon form is just something that I used because I couldn't decide on my racial power bonus. And in effect, the dragon is a deus ex machina to haul their butts out of the frying pan should they ask for help. I decided that only once per adventure I will help them out to that degree. And the raging is just something to keep me out of the way.



I think the game is what we make it. If your player wants the Tarrasque as a pet, humor them, and let them have it. Then kill it mercilessly when it comes to save them. If your player wants all weapon proficiencies, give it to them, but give them a penalty for being a jack of all-trades. If your significant other tries to brew up an evil plan, let it unfold, but make it so they regret doing it. The game is what you make it.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
Two simple facts:

1. You're playing the wrong edition for that
2. You're in the absolute wrong forum for that
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Two simple facts:

1. You're playing the wrong edition for that
2. You're in the absolute wrong forum for that

Okay. If you insist. I'll be more careful in the future.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
You totally missed the intent of what I was trying to do, but then again, I guess I expected that.

Simply put-Refluff over rules changes. And don't be OP as the DM
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'd hope you'd take the overwhelmingly negative response from people who take this far more seriously than you as an indicator that you might want to re-evaluate your choices.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I'd hope you'd take the overwhelmingly negative response from people who take this far more seriously than you as an indicator that you might want to re-evaluate your choices.




I take it very seriously. I'm almost insulted. Almost. But I am not. Why? Because this criticism is helping me. And why focus solely on me? There are three other players here. Give me ideas for them.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
They're following 4e rules. You're not. Ergo, you're the issue.

Plus, you gave us close to no info on them, so we can't help you with them.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I'd hope you'd take the overwhelmingly negative response from people who take this far more seriously than you as an indicator that you might want to re-evaluate your choices.




I take it very seriously. I'm almost insulted. Almost. But I am not. Why? Because this criticism is helping me. And why focus solely on me? There are three other players here. Give me ideas for them.

Because your level 8 with a houseruled "i'm a dragon" ability.

Nothing wrong with any of the level 1 characters.  They're not the most optimal choices, but i don't see any failures.  And none of them will make the rest feel useless.  I would suggest a leader as your next PC though.

Edit: actually, if you want an NPC there to save their build a passifist cleric.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

They're following 4e rules. You're not. Ergo, you're the issue.

Plus, you gave us close to no info on them, so we can't help you with them.



Oh, but I am. At least, I think I am. To my knowledge, nowhere in the player's handbooks or the dungeon master's guides does it say that the DM cannot play a PC higher than the rest of the party. It just isn't suggested. It also does not say to my knowledge that a PC may not transorm into a dragon. In addition, most of the time it's suggested that you not do something, not ordered that it's against the rules. I bend the rules, not break them.

And for the other characters, you could just ask.

I'd hope you'd take the overwhelmingly negative response from people who take this far more seriously than you as an indicator that you might want to re-evaluate your choices.




I take it very seriously. I'm almost insulted. Almost. But I am not. Why? Because this criticism is helping me. And why focus solely on me? There are three other players here. Give me ideas for them.

Because your level 8 with a houseruled "i'm a dragon" ability.

Nothing wrong with any of the level 1 characters.  They're not the most optimal choices, but i don't see any failures.  And none of them will make the rest feel useless.  I would suggest a leader as your next PC though.

Edit: actually, if you want an NPC there to save their build a passifist cleric.



Fair enough. I do have like six other characters ready, including a level 3 drow warlord, a level 11 goliath barbarian, and at least one cleric I think. The Goliath I built in my spare time. He's not that developed.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.
You're coming to us for help, not the other way around.

And those "suggestions" are pretty much requirements. Changing minor things is one thing. Play PCs that are nearly at another tier is another.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
They're following 4e rules. You're not. Ergo, you're the issue.

Plus, you gave us close to no info on them, so we can't help you with them.

Oh, but I am. At least, I think I am. To my knowledge, nowhere in the player's handbooks or the dungeon master's guides does it say that the DM cannot play a PC higher than the rest of the party. It just isn't suggested. It also does not say to my knowledge that a PC may not transorm into a dragon. In addition, most of the time it's suggested that you not do something, not ordered that it's against the rules. I bend the rules, not break them.

And for the other characters, you could just ask.

That's pure muchkinism.  Because it don't say you can't, you can.

I'm pretty sure it DOES say that the DM runs monsters.
And even more to the point, about 1/3 of the DMG say's your supposed to make the game fun for your players.  Giving you advice about how to make them feel included and making sure each player get's a chance in the spotlight.

Edit: Oh, and the DMG 2 has rules for compainion characters.  Which again, are not supposed to overshadow the PC's. 

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Oh, i also think there's something in the DMG about level spread.

Mainly, it advises against it.  But if you do +/- 2 is about as far as you want to streach it.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

And even that is probably pushing it. The difference between level 1 and level 5, or level 13 and level 17, is pretty vast.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I've DMed with active NPC participants in the party in this edition.  However, they were:

  1. The same level as the PCs

  2. Built using the companion character rules

  3. Were bodyguards for another non-combatant NPC and only contributed to the fight if the monsters got near that NPC.


If you're dead-set on playing an NPC that's +6-7 levels over the rest of the group, I suggest rebuilding him as a companion character and coming up with some very specific rules as to when, how, and to what extent he participates in a fight.


There's nothing wrong with traveling alongside your powerful mentor.  But if the intent is for you to learn and grow under his guidance, it seems like it would be counter to his goals to constantly interfere and handle the big threat.  It would seem perfectly in character to stand back, give guidance (Aid Another), and step in only if it became clear his pupils had bitten off more than they could chew.


Either that or play a pacifist cleric NPC.  That's actually a wonderful suggestion and the perfect use for a pacifist as you can fill up an entire power list with prayers that only cause status conditions.

At this point I think you've made it clear that this thread is for little more than stroking your own ego, much like your choices for your "game."

Good luck, have fun, and may Pelor have mercy on your players.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
I have played with a DM like this in the past with the powerful DMPC.  He did not last long as our DM.

Don't be that DM.

Seriously, DMPCs need to not be rolling dice.  They are only ok for very short term plot purposes and long term comic relief.  Mainly they need to exist to do things like give PCs things like escort duty for an adventure or to get kidnapped and give the PCs someone to rescue.

If you insist on playing a DMPC that actively participates, you should do a lazy warlord, lazy shaman, or a cleric with a lot powers that don't need you to roll a D20 or that don't do damage if you do roll a D20.
Not sure if should move to char dev or keep for entertainment value.
I'm entertained.

Cry Havoc!  And let slip the hogs of war!

All your comments have been received. They have also been incorporated. Thank you for your time. And my PC is now a monster in effect.


Oh, and I remembered Thaver's actual gift. He has a insane mind-flayer inside his brain. The ED was what I want him to do.
And the #1 item for the morally bankrupt... Why settle for a statue of a nude elf in your bedroom when you have a real, live nude elf, petrified and unpetrified on your command. She wears a tiara, when you utter a command word, she will be petrified, unpetrified, or disciplined. Any attempts by her to remove the tiara will be futile. Use her only as a statue, or to entertain any debauched desires you may have. 125,000 GP.


Oh, and I remembered Thaver's actual gift. He has a insane mind-flayer inside his brain. The ED was what I want him to do.



I enjoy how this whole thread is about you, despite claiming its about your table. It makes me laugh
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.