the menso.... book

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from the sounds of its exccerpts, it does not sopund to likely that Eilistraee will be back.
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Eh... lets wait and see.

So far we've seen previews about chapters concerning the ''streamline drow'', but after all Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are rebel underdogs, and their followers are just fringes of the drow, of little weight on the whole. So I'd expect to find them mentioned in sections about drow outcasts, or something like that.

Furthermore, this map (which has been taken from the book) doesn't leave much room for uncertainty, it's clearly about a place dedicated to Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Actually -judging by ''Hall of Dancers/Masked'' and ''Throne of Lord and Lady''- it looks like some kind of Home Plane for both of them, or something along these lines (and I can't see what else it could refer to). Besides, that place is in the Feywild Underdark and, having it appeared after the Spellplague, can't be for previous eras (and in the past E and V were opposed to each other, it would have been weird of them -and of their followers- to inhabit the same place).

Also, I've already written it elsewhere, but one of the authors of the book said that Eilistraee is coming back with it on a fansite forum, and even mentioned that her return will be related to her roots: Araushnee and Corellon.

Those are pretty encouraging hints to me, so lets wait and see.
that map can mean many of things.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Well, maybe it's just me, but when I see a map of a place like that (found in the Feydark and named ''Grotto of Silver and Shadow'') in a book about drow, I can't think to many other things but Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, either as a new Home Plane of sort for them, or as a temple, or as something along these lines.
But if it was a new temple, then it'd mean that the two of them are back in some fashion, since who would decide to build something like that, if the beings it'd be dedicated to couldn't even interact with their followers...

We don't have the certainty, however we've got the preview of only 2 chapters so far (and they included only a small overview of the chapters), so lets wait for others (or for the book itself to come out, if we're unlucky).

My bet is that they are Archfeys now (to be honest, I'll like them even more, if they come back as such creatures)...
the new except is up...

factions...




still does not sound very thrilling.... yet. 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I see. I'm wondering how many chapters this book has. It seems to be only 128 pages so, excluding index and appendix, we have space for -say- 4-5 chapters of 20-ish pages each (or more likely with different sizes)? Sounds very little, if we consider that it is '' for all eras'' and that the original Menzo book (which is dedicated to a single era) has like 300 (?) pages...

Besides, the chapters that have come up till now pretty much cover Menzoberranzan (overview of the city through the eras, various lolthite crap, and factions). The places of interest are the only thing left (assuming that they haven't been covered yet, in chapter 1). The book has been said to also include overviews of some Underdark locations, so we have 1 more chapter for this (or none at all, if they decided to describe the city and the Underdark together in a single chapter), plus the appendix (mainly information for players) and -hopefully- a (seemingly brief) chapter about the drow deities, or about drow outcasts (or this kind of lore could be included in the appendix, even tho this would suck).

Assuming that what I wrote above is correct, this means that the general overview of the whole book will probably be complete in the next week, and I'm still positive that we will get our longed (well, at least for me) preview info about Eilistraee's and Vhaeraun's return during the current week, or the next. Or maybe through that puzzle game they're running...

Well, next excerpt will probably come up on Thursday, so... lets wait some more.

PS: These previews are kinda pointless. They are just tables of contents and I'm wondering why they didn't just post the index of the book, instead of doing this...
the next except is up.. .deals with the city itself.



a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Then we have left, presumably, a chapter about the Underdark surroundings (unless the info about it are included in the ''Dark Dominion'' part of the chapter about the city), the Appendix and -hopefully- what we're looking for (or it might be in the appendix, or in the Underdark section, maybe in a part dedicated to the Feydark projection of the area around Menzo... dunno).

We'll see in the next week, I guess.
anyone here seen this yet




a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
A new excerpt is out: chapter 5 and the Northdark.

Nothing that hints about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun yet.

That map (with the lore about it, and therefore about the two deities) has to be somewhere in the book, tho. Perhaps the info about them will be in the appendix (or maybe in the ''Dark Dominion'' section of chapter 4, or in the ''Shadow Ways'' section of this one...), which seems to be the only part left (we're at page 100, and according to Amazon the whole book has 128 pages).

Once again, we'll see with the next excerpt...
Chapter 6, probably the last one, and still nothing. It looks like they cut anything that might have been related to the FeyDark.

Hope dies last... I guess.
yep




they said they had to respect the authors..... which is a load of garage, all it has to do is to pick up the phone and ask them if siad contreversial novel or novels if they mind were took out from being canon.

      
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Well, that map was there. That means that it is likely that there was content about E. and V., but it may be that it has been cut for some reason.

Also, E. and V. could've been brought back without deleting previous lore (i.e. novels, not that I would mind, since the events in those were a waste of potential, and unfitting for the personalities of the two deities), but still adding depth and flavor to the drow. Like making them Archfeys, with few followers, not capable of influencing the Realms as before (so the drow would still be almost completely ''mwahaha! For powah and teh evulz!!11!'', since someone at WotC likes this so much), but still keeping alive the fight for drow's freedom, which is what makes the two of them awesome (beside their flavor, ofc), and what got me interested in the drow (interest that has evaporated when they decided to not publish anything else about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun).

For some reason they simply want to keep simplifying everything, not caring for what many people -potential customers- would like to see (just take a look at how popular the Dark Maiden and the Masked Lord are, even after their removal from canon), or for what could make the setting more interesting.
yeah but drow always were powahs of da evulz.




but every dm and their mother wants their players when they wish to be a drow to be evil, but what if my drow character is self imposed exile and is also a renegade, what makes every dm think to know my character??

     and then there was kill on sight deals with some dms...... and some dms still have npcs kill drow on sight pc or not.



I guess the last hope of me buying this book will be at the book store when I can crack open its pages and at taht time, I'll walk out either with it or leave it behind.


a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
yeah but drow always were powahs of da evulz.



Lolthite drow are. Eilistraeens and Vhaerunites (which, to an extent, have a meaningful goal, which is not powah) are not. They add depth to an otherwise flat and one-note race, besides being very interesting characters on their own. I've already talked about this many times on these forums.

As for the DM thingy, well ofc canon and attitued towards drow pcs varies from table to table, but in my previous posts I was talking about the setting itself and its story, not about the game. And from this it seems that WotC is determined to keep walking the simplified, streamline route.

At this point FR drow are identical to GH drow, just more influent with their world spanning plans of conquest.


I HATE D&D Drow.


Ed Greenwood's take on the Drow or Nilfghar in "Dark Warrior Rising" and "Dark Vengance" are really cool. Then again I like Ed's non-realms fiction better than I do his realms fiction. I love Ed's realms fiction. 


Pathfinder's Drow are cool also. 

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

^FR drow, as they are now, are not even worthy of hate. They simply make annoying villains because the ''choices'' they make in their lives are not their own. Basically everything in their life is already established by their puppeteer even before their birth, and even the few ones who try to oppose the theocracy/matriarchy cannot help but act accordingly to Lolth's dogma. So they're all brainwashed, they have no real control on their very existence, and the reason they live for is the same for all of them (power for power's sake), with no variation.

That changes if you take in consideration Eilistraeens and Vhaerunites, who have the brain to recognize what their kin is forced into and dare to choose something else, fighting for this kind of freedom. This adds a very interesting conflict to the whole race, turning it into something worthy of attention, instead of a bunch of frustrated puppets.

are Ed's non dnd dark elves drow or alfar???
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
from the sounds of its exccerpts, it does not sopund to likely that Eilistraee will be back.



This makes me want to dance naked in the moonlight.
are Ed's non dnd dark elves drow or alfar???



I believe they were svartalfar, but I didn't get very far before I decided I can't read this.
from the sounds of its exccerpts, it does not sopund to likely that Eilistraee will be back.



This makes me want to dance naked in the moonlight.



Whatever. Rejoicing because many people won't get something they wish (something that is a neat and meaningful concept that enriches the FR, btw), while you don't even get any real advantage from them not getting it, is just selfish and rather pointless.
ditto
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
it does not sopund to likely that Eilistraee will be back.

This makes me want to dance naked in the moonlight.

Rejoicing because many people won't get something they wish (something that is a neat and meaningful concept that enriches the FR, btw), while you don't even get any real advantage from them not getting it, is just selfish and rather pointless.

Drow irony.

Ah, I see.
rather pointless and what a trollish comment
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
rather pointless and what a trollish comment



youre just mad cause your quote was butchered, haha.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
no man the trow is a troll
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
off to the tracks........ for a race or two....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I feel compelled to throw some support in behind the bring Eilistraee back movement. I would additionally like to see the return of all the racial Pantheons. On the Eilistraee front, I would really enjoy seeing the drow pantheon become a good vs evil two deity pantheon Eilistraee(Masked Lady) vs Lolth. Even bring both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back would be leaps and bounds better than the current the situation IMO.

Actually I'd like to see both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun back, but somehow on the same front. They are both peculiar and interesting characters on their own, I wouldn't like to see that lost.


Eilistraee is the underdog struggling against overwhelming odds, the rebel who stands up to tyranny. She stands for freedom of expression, of fulfillment, of life itself, and is a shining beacon of hope for the drow, as she offers them the freedom and the happiness that they were unjustly denied, the possibility to live by choices that belong only to them, and that are not imposed by some indoctrinating mechanism. And she does that by being a symbol of all that is good and wondrous in life, a star in a sea of inky darkness, singing to the very souls and hearts of her people. She isn't opposed to Lolth in the sense of trying to destroy her, although she passionately fights for her creatures when they are threatened (and that's why the ML, which basically is ''get Lolth'', defeats her point). That is Vhaeraun's approach. He is a militant whose purpose is to undermine the already precarious balance of drow society, making it crumble under the weight of people who no longer want to be puppets or pawns for the fun of a deity with clear ego issues, and wish to conquer a worthy existence for themselves and their race. One where instead of agonizing due to infighting and being forced in shiny cages underground, the Dark Elves can extend themselves into becoming a race worthy of respect. So Vhaeraun stands for rebellion through violence, through fierce fighting.


The ML mixes these concepts, but in doing so loses flavor from both of them, which is a shame as I see it. I think that having E. and V. teaming up would be a much better idea, as their neat and strong flavors make for an interesting dichotomy, without excluding each other. An idea that -judging by a map from the Menzo book that WotC uploaded- was in the process of being introduced in FR canon, but that -from what I see the previews of the book- seems to have been cut in the editing. Whatever they like, I guess.

rather pointless and what a trollish comment

Didn't you already indicate such (with your previous "Ditto")? Or were you possibly referring to my comment?

might have been poking fun at the comment.... and the link in general

meant no offense 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Just picked it up. Saw BRJ's name on it, so I know it's a name that I can trust. Looks to be a lore heavy tome. I will know more once I have had a chance to really look thru it...

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

its out???

man I'm goiing to ahve to go down to hastings then......



is Eilistraee alive in it????


do spoil  all things on her....     
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
It isn't out yet (it will be published on the 21st of this month). I guess he meant that he took a look at the book's page on WotC site. The names of the authors have appeared there.
No. I have the book. Went to the FLGS and saw a copy. I picked it up, took it to the counter, paid for it, and brought it home. 

The book is set up for multiple era's of Realmlore.

The Demon Weave sounds interesting.

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

She is alive sFDragon!



































In the appropriate era...           

HAND OF KARSUS!

 

 

That is disappointing news.
JR_Gareth, in the words of Khelben "The Blackstaff" Arunson also known as Khelben Arunson the Older and it is one of his more popular quaotes.
Indeed- Khelben ARunson 
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
In the appropriate era...

I lold at that.

Fun aside, do you like the book?

I seem to remember a Warlock power associaated with Eilistraee, I think it was with the Vestige pact, Of course  I cant seem to find it now, but any way that would mean that the Dark Maiden lives on in post Spellplauge Realms, albeit as a vestige, but still.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
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