Dungeon Command Rules Questions/Clarifications

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Dungeon Command is awesome.

Just a few questions regarding combat.

If player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 performs some type of action such as a block.  Can player 2 then perform a minor attack or on player 1 while technically on the defensive end?



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Dungeon Command is awesome.

Just a few questions regarding combat.

If player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 performs some type of action such as a block.  Can player 2 then perform a minor attack or on player 1 while technically on the defensive end?






You can only use minors during your own activation.  Only Immediate cards can be used on the opponent's turn.  So no.

So, now that Curse is out, I'm back with a round of questions for my tournament tomorrow!  I'd love another official response but consensus on what feels best would be helpful too.

So, a couple of sorta-similar questions about two orders.

Call to Battle: "As a standard action, deploy 1 creature now.  If this creature is in a magic circle, gain 1 morale before deploying."  This implies to me that I can just use a standard to gain 1 morale if I'm in a magic circle and want to (say because I don't have enough leadership to actualy deploy anything) but this could be a Magic bias showing through.  On the other hand, 1 morale for a standard action on a level 3+ dude hardly seems broken.  Anyway, I'd love to know the intent here.

Swarm of Bats: "Prevent all damage to this creature from one source, then shift 6 squares."  So, my interpretation of this is that the shift happens after the source resolves, but isn't contingent on preventing damage.  So it basically sets up what we'd call in Magic a "delayed trigger" that resolves after the chosen source does and causes you to shift 6.  So I've got two conclusions here that I want to make sure I'm right about:

1. If the damage can't be prevented, say due to Piercing Strike or Magic Short Sword, I still get to shift (I am pretty sure of this one)

2. (The less clear case) It seems pretty clear I can't just play this card to shift 6 whenever I like, since if I can't pick a source, I can't set up the delayed trigger.  But, can I play it if the source (ie, some random thing on the stack) isn't even trying to do damage to the creature?  In other words, if I want to move my Vampire Stalker around, and my opponent is attacking some Skeleton somewhere else on the board, can I play Swarm of Bats, prevent the damage to the Vampire (even though the attack doesn't target the Vampire), and then shift the Vampire 6?  It seems like I should be able to, but I'm not sure this is the intended effect.

Thanks!
Seems to me you can't use the ability if you can't deploy, so gaining 1 Morale withoutdeploying shouldn't be possible.

As for swarm of bats: it needs a valid target according to the rules. An attack targeting another creature is not a valid target for the vampire stalker in your example. Neither is an attack that does target the vamp but cannot be prevented, that is swarm of bats does not have a legal target if that target mentions it cannot be prevented.
Seems to me you can't use the ability if you can't deploy, so gaining 1 Morale withoutdeploying shouldn't be possible. As for swarm of bats: it needs a valid target according to the rules. An attack targeting another creature is not a valid target for the vampire stalker in your example. Neither is an attack that does target the vamp but cannot be prevented, that is swarm of bats does not have a legal target if that target mentions it cannot be prevented.



Are you sure?  I might have missed something in the rulebook I guess, but I don't see anywhere that says you can't play a defense card if you can't prevent damage.  And if you're right, it's not clear to me how that would work with something like Seize the Opportunity, that has damage prevention plus some other useful effect (or even one of the ones that prevents damage and draws a card).  It seems like you should be able to play those even if you can't prevent anything.  Can you cite a source on not being able to pick an attack as a source if you can't prevent damage?
My impression is that immediate actions can be played at any time accept in the middle of a creature's movement.  There might be some exceptions to this, for example deployment phase, but I don't think you need to wait for someone to attack you. But everyone reading this should remember that immediate actions can never be played by a tapped creature.
The only rule I could pin my answer on was the one about checking wether a target is legal. However upon re-reading the rules I will admit that my statement(s) were my interpretation of those rules, where you clearly had a different one. I still stick with my interpretation that one cannot be allowed to play prevention cards on something that cannot be prevented because of it being an illegal target, but I will admit that I *could* be wrong.
Playing with people I hadn't played with before a very basic question arose that we couldn't answer definatively from the rulebook. (I guess my group had always played it one way and their group another way)

Do large creatures pay extra again for moving their trailing two squares through difficult terrain? I made the image on the left demonstrating the question. My argument was that they only pay once (1, 2/3, 4, 5) theirs was they pay each time (1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).

I was basing my interpretation on the description of difficult terrain on p.10: "If a creature occupies multiple squares, its whole space is considered to enter difficult terrain simultaneously." And further up it says "Entering a square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square of movement" (emphasis mine).

So my reasoning was that the whole creature is already in difficult terrain so it wasn't "entering" it again as the back two squares moved over it (and so didn't need to pay extra again). But I could easily be interpreting it incorrectly and/or mixing it up with the rules from the old D&D minis game and the 4e rpg rules.

Their argument was that parts of their space were entering difficult terrain so they should pay the penalty again (hence the 1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).

If anyone could offer the correct interpretation and/or point out where it is clearly explained I would really appreciate it. And apologies if this is already answered somewhere but I searched as much as possible before posting to make sure it wasn't clarified elsewhere.
The way I would play that is you have to count both squares you are moving over.  But you only have to count the leading edge and not the back because of the rule you posted.  If the figure only entered one you would only have to count it once. i.e. the figure was one row lower on the map.

I mainly came to this conclussion because of the map pieces with doors, the large figures have to open both doors to enter a room.
Playing with people I hadn't played with before a very basic question arose that we couldn't answer definatively from the rulebook. (I guess my group had always played it one way and their group another way)

Do large creatures pay extra again for moving their trailing two squares through difficult terrain? I made the image on the left demonstrating the question. My argument was that they only pay once (1, 2/3, 4, 5) theirs was they pay each time (1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).

I was basing my interpretation on the description of difficult terrain on p.10: "If a creature occupies multiple squares, its whole space is considered to enter difficult terrain simultaneously." And further up it says "Entering a square of difficult terrain costs 1 extra square of movement" (emphasis mine).

So my reasoning was that the whole creature is already in difficult terrain so it wasn't "entering" it again as the back two squares moved over it (and so didn't need to pay extra again). But I could easily be interpreting it incorrectly and/or mixing it up with the rules from the old D&D minis game and the 4e rpg rules.

Their argument was that parts of their space were entering difficult terrain so they should pay the penalty again (hence the 1, 2/3, 4/5, 6).

If anyone could offer the correct interpretation and/or point out where it is clearly explained I would really appreciate it. And apologies if this is already answered somewhere but I searched as much as possible before posting to make sure it wasn't clarified elsewhere.



We've always used your second example picture, basically counting from the front square(s) entering and not counting the back square(s)....although we also haven't been able to justify this entirely from the rules as written, it made sense to all of us, so we agreed to play it that way.
Quick Question:

Do multiple Lolths Blessing stack on one Priestress ? (and also Faerie Fire on one creature ? ...)



Quick Question:

Do multiple Lolths Blessing stack on one Priestress ? (and also Faerie Fire on one creature ? ...)






They don't give keyworded abilities, so yes and yes.
Can we get some clarification form an official source on some of these?

Also:

1) Death Sentence: Can this card be used on the creature playing it? As that creature is a creature you control, within 5 squares of the creature using the ability. Or is it only for a different creature within 5 squares and Line of Sight.

2) Warning Shout: Can this card be used on the Creature Playing it? It states that it prevents 30 damage from 1 allied creature in line of sight.

(notes) Can a creature draw line of sight to itself? Please keep in mind as well that the Shield card states it may target "this" creature or another creature you control within 5 squares. So because Death Sentence and Warning shout do not specify the creature may target itself they cant?

3) the movement question above for large creatures and difficult terrain: As stated by the rules for large creatures if any square of the creatures base enters difficult terrain it costs +1 movement point. meaning the 2nd picture is correct. however if multiple squares of the base enter difficult terrain the cost is still only +1 meaning moving a 4 square figure onto 4 squares of difficult terrain only costs 2 movement not 5. Is this correct?

4) Line of sight on outdoors cliffs (walls): as shown in the rule book line of sight around a corner of wall on the outdoor tiles is determined not by the edge of the wall square but by the actually picture of the wall on the game board. is this intended? or should the corner of the square be used to determine line of sight as it would be on the dungeon side where walls cover entire squares only.

5) If the rulebook is correct for outdoor line of sight being based on the picture on the tile and not the corner of the square does that then change the diagonal movement around corners of walls limitation on movement when playing on an outdoors map? (you can move diagonally except when moving around a corner of a wall, but if the corner does not block line of sight then the corner would not block movement either?)

Thanks.
1) and 2) I don't remember the exact wording but I had the same question and looked closely at the cards. Death Sentence says something like 'a creature you control within 5 squares' and so can be used on the creature currently activated. Warning Shout says something like 'an allied creature' and a creature isn't allied to itself, so you have to use it on a different creature. Like I said, I don't have the cards before me, but that's how I understood the subtle wording differences they have. Death Sentence was already ruled to work on the creature using it, whereas Warning Shout is worded differently than Shield, which is the only way in which it is not a strictly better card (well, that and INT vs CHA).


Does anyone know if you can move around a corner diagnally?

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Not indoors.  But outdoors you can since the corners are rounded.  However, a creature is concidered adjacent to you, even if they are behind a hard corner.
So you can attack around a hard corner?

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The questions about corners is a good question. I'd believe all corners would just be corners, since the rule do not define different styles of corners (if it does, I'm not seeing it). I just played a game today and we noticed the different between walls on the above ground side (round with only a few corners). But because the rules didn't define one or the other, we played it like the normal corner rules. I'd like to see an official response on this since it would be a big deal in movement and ranged attacks.
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To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other.  I kind of take it as cover.  You would have to come out one square to do an attack.  But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.

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To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other.  I kind of take it as cover.  You would have to come out one square to do an attack.  But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.

Glad we agree on the need for an offical response. They probably need to create a small print out covering corners, since they play such a big roll in movement (especially large creatures), attacks, and special order cards. Since shifting and sliding can also be effected by Terrain, its interaction with corners needs to be more heavily defined.
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WoTC should look at all our questions, and answer them in a downloadable PDF.

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To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other.  I kind of take it as cover.  You would have to come out one square to do an attack.  But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.



The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.

Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.  
To me, players on adjacent corner would not be able to attack each other.  I kind of take it as cover.  You would have to come out one square to do an attack.  But I'd like to see an official response regarding hard corners and attacking as well.



The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.

Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.  

I just flipped through the rulebook again to check and I can't find anything in the rules about hard/soft corners and even if corners interefere with melee attacks.  By looking the LOS rules, the corner would not actually interfere in melee since one corner can see all corners of the target. But, you can't move through those corners as if they weren't adjacent so this still isn't the most clear. And again, I didn't see anything a bout hard/soft (round) corners so, despite the way it looks on the board, I don't see any mechanical represenation to explain its difference in gameplay, if any. Maybe if the Underground Tiles themselves had 'soft' corners (it appears may only be two, but not sure), the difference would make a little more sense. Either way, I can't find it in the rulebook.
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />The rules say you are adjacent to a character across a hard corner. The rules say melee attacks can be done to characters that are adjacent. The rules make no explicit exception for hard corners. Ergo, you can melee attack across a hard corner.

Now, if you really want to talk about ambiguous rules, tell me how hard corners work with Reach 2, because I have no frakking clue.  



Sums it up right there.

As for how hard corners work with reach, pretty much the same as in your first paragraph there. It does say treat as adjacent, doesn't it? (don't have my cards here atm).


Yeah, it's too bad that official replies seem to have dropped off, though I certainly understand people get busy.  I'd still love to hear replies to my last set about Call to Battle and Cloud of Bats.

Reach and Hard Corners: Clarification never hurts, but RAW it looks like the Horned Devil can't attack around a hard corner from one step back because the target will be three squares away.  I base this on the square counting rules on p. 13:

"Some effect specify a range in squares [...] When determining this distance, always count around walls, never through them."  To me this implies that you count as if you were moving, so you can't cut hard corners.  Again, something I've learned over my many years in gaming is that official clarification always helps put people's minds to rest, but I wouldn't have trouble ruling this one in a tournament with reasonable confidence. 

Reach and Hard Corners: Clarification never hurts, but RAW it looks like the Horned Devil can't attack around a hard corner from one step back because the target will be three squares away.  I base this on the square counting rules on p. 13:

"Some effect specify a range in squares [...] When determining this distance, always count around walls, never through them."  To me this implies that you count as if you were moving, so you can't cut hard corners.  Again, something I've learned over my many years in gaming is that official clarification always helps put people's minds to rest, but I wouldn't have trouble ruling this one in a tournament with reasonable confidence. 



If you'd rule that you'd also have to forbid melee attacks around a corner since around a corner wouldn't be adjacent anymore but by your reckoning two squares away..........which is in direct voilation of the rules as written regarding melee combat around a corner.

So yeah, I'd disagree with that ruling.

Edit: I believe the rule you are referring to was intended to mean you can't count an opponent as one square away when there is a solid wall between you, but would have to count all the way around the wall (which might go one for three more squares). Also, your assumption of treating this as movement is based on.....what exactly? Why not use the rules for LoS, which don't forbid counting diagonally, but use corner to corner calculations? Last one makes more sense in my opinion. Still, I agree that some formal answer would be desirable. (not to mention an updated FAQ with all these questions we've been discussing over the past few months.)
Gout of Fire in the "Curse of Undeath" set: lvl 3, int, standard.  Requires ranged, make a ranged attack that deals 20 damage.
All 3 of the ranged creatures that have a ranged attack deal at least 20 damage.
pg 12 of the rule book 'Taking a standard action taps the acting creature"
What is the point of this card?

Use it and it taps your creature (as it's a standard action) and on one out of three creatures you actually lose damage.
I'm confused, help please? 
+20 damage.... duh.... lol.  sorry guys.
 
Hello!  I have a question that might already be answered in this thread but I am going to ask - With regards to the "Behind Enemy lines" as stated below you can deploy and attack.  If you deploy this unit does it count against your leadership points?  ( meaning you have to have enough to deploy) or does this go above your leadership at the time of using this card? 

So when you deploy a new unit, you've already passed the activation stage, for this turn. Mind you if you play a card like "Behind Enemy Lines" you could deploy a unit and then move/attack with it, all in the same turn.


Thanks so much!

Rayven 

It does count against your leadership points, the only rules that are broken by this card are when and where you can deploy a single adventurer.

I'm not sure whether the bold text is a question or a comment. But yes, it allows you to deploy a new creature and then move and attack all on the same turn. I've used it on two occasions to knock out a Drow Priestess with Lolths blessing that was hiding where she thought she was safe.
All the basic rules have to be followed unless a card specifies otherwise. As JzizzleRtizzle1 correctly pointed out, Behind Enemy Lines specifies only changes to the standard rules of when and where to deploy, not to the standard rules regarding deployment and leadership so they remain in effect.
Ok, time for a stumper that came up in a game last night. The general question is - can immediate actions only be played on you or your opponent's Activate phase, or at any time in any phase as long as the target is untapped?

Basically my opponent had a creature that was going to die at the start of his turn from the Deep Wound he had attached (Deal 10 Damage to this creature at the start of its controller's turn.) Could he play the immediate 'Patch Up' (this creature heals 20 damage) at the start of his turn, either before taking the 10 or using the 10 damage as a trigger to play the immediate (so the stack would be heal 20, then take 10). I realize he could have played it in response to the attack that dealt the Deep Wound initially and there would be no conflict; he just forgot to do that.

All it says for immediate actions in the rules is “Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature.”  The Patch Up card doesn't seem to have a trigger though, and the first sentence from the rules indicates that immediate actions won't always have a trigger or be responding to something. So can Immediate order cards without a trigger be played at any time during any player's Refresh, Activate, Deploy, or Cleanup phase?

Same question for the Dwarf Cleric's Healing Touch, which is an immediate. Although in that case it seems more clear that he can only do that during his activation since "Use Creature Powers" is one of the 4 actions available for creatures to take when they are activated (move, play order cards, use creature powers, take other actions). But does that mean that's the ONLY time creature powers can be used? I imagine a dwarf cleric could use Healing Touch as an immediate on an opponents turn too as a reaction if he was untapped. But again, it's only during the Activate phase, not refresh, deploy, or cleanup.

Anyway, thanks for any light anyone can help shed on this.
Hypnotoad (#113)

There is nothing wrong with your ideas behind your first question.  This seeme to be the opinion of a few other players as well, although nothing official.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Ok, time for a stumper that came up in a game last night. The general question is - can immediate actions only be played on you or your opponent's Activate phase, or at any time in any phase as long as the target is untapped?

Basically my opponent had a creature that was going to die at the start of his turn from the Deep Wound he had attached (Deal 10 Damage to this creature at the start of its controller's turn.) Could he play the immediate 'Patch Up' (this creature heals 20 damage) at the start of his turn, either before taking the 10 or using the 10 damage as a trigger to play the immediate (so the stack would be heal 20, then take 10). I realize he could have played it in response to the attack that dealt the Deep Wound initially and there would be no conflict; he just forgot to do that.

All it says for immediate actions in the rules is “Immediate actions are usually responses to other actions. They can be played on any player’s turn. Taking an immediate action taps the acting creature.”  The Patch Up card doesn't seem to have a trigger though, and the first sentence from the rules indicates that immediate actions won't always have a trigger or be responding to something. So can Immediate order cards without a trigger be played at any time during any player's Refresh, Activate, Deploy, or Cleanup phase?

Same question for the Dwarf Cleric's Healing Touch, which is an immediate. Although in that case it seems more clear that he can only do that during his activation since "Use Creature Powers" is one of the 4 actions available for creatures to take when they are activated (move, play order cards, use creature powers, take other actions). But does that mean that's the ONLY time creature powers can be used? I imagine a dwarf cleric could use Healing Touch as an immediate on an opponents turn too as a reaction if he was untapped. But again, it's only during the Activate phase, not refresh, deploy, or cleanup.

Anyway, thanks for any light anyone can help shed on this.



It's a long thread so easy to miss, but this is actually one of the initial thread questions that got an official answer.  You can use the Dwarf Cleric's ability as an immediate (per rulebook; any activated creature ability that doesn't specify is an immediate) and you can use immediates on any phase, yours or your opponent's (this is the clarification from earlier in the thread).  So you can deploy a Dwarf Cleric and immediately heal someone if you deployed next to them.
New player here.  I just got my faction packs Cormyr and Lolth.  I haven't played the Lolth pack yet.

How do you play "Battle Ready"?

The way I do it is as follows:
1. During one of my creature's activation phase, I tap target creature (maybe a Human Ranger) I control and attach "Battle Ready" to it.  I tap Human Ranger since Battle Ready states it is a standard Order card.
2. Now, as a response to an opponent's action, let's say an order card that deals 50 damage, I remove Battle Ready from my creature to gain the "prevent 40 damage" effect.  

My questions are:
a) Do I have to tap my creature when I remove the "Battle Ready" card from it, as part of an immediate action? OR
b) Do I just remove the order card without tapping my creature because I am using a creature power and I am not technically making an "immediate" action? (sorta, card rules overriding core rules) OR
c) can I only use the ability during my activation phase because the attached effect is considered a creature power now? (which I think is not the case)


Thanks in advance!
Battle Ready does not tap a creature in order to remove it. As to it being a "creature" power, I have no idea. But the card does not require you to tap when removing it, therefore it does not.

Welcome to DC! 
Hello,
I have a question regarding the creatures with scuttle:
So creatures with scuttle don't need to stop when moving adjacent to an enemy creature, but what I'm not sure about is what happens when a creature with scuttle starts it's activation adjacent to an enemy creature - it's speed becomes 1 but can it shift up to it's normal speed or it can only shift by 1 too?
I'm sorry if this question has alredy been asked. 
Hello,
I have a question regarding the creatures with scuttle:
So creatures with scuttle don't need to stop when moving adjacent to an enemy creature, but what I'm not sure about is what happens when a creature with scuttle starts it's activation adjacent to an enemy creature - it's speed becomes 1 but can it shift up to it's normal speed or it can only shift by 1 too?
I'm sorry if this question has alredy been asked. 



Unless otherwise noted it can shift upto it's speed....so when it's speed becomes 1, it can shift upto 1.
Just got my hands on HoC and ToG faction packs. My wife and I really enjoyed our initial games.
Question: what is the timing on Alarphon's special ability?
Just got my hands on HoC and ToG faction packs. My wife and I really enjoyed our initial games. Question: what is the timing on Alarphon's special ability?



You can use it any time, so basically like an Immediate.  (But of course only once for each of your own turns, unlike an Immediate.)
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