Latest Survey: Spells

Here I quote the latest survey:

Survey: Warning its long

Thanks for participating in the D&D® Next playtesting process! This time, we'd like to get your feedback on spells.

NOTE: Please don't close your browser before finishing the survey, as you won't be able to get back in to complete it.    
In your opinion, which of the following spells are most iconic to the D&D wizard? In other words, what spells should be available to ensure that the wizard "feels" like a D&D wizard?    
0-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 5.) *This question is required.    

    Acid Splash
    Arcane Mark
    Cloud of Daggers
    Dancing Lights
    Daze
    Detect Magic

    Detect Poison
    Disrupt Undead
    Flare
    Ghost Sound
    Light
    Mage Hand

    Mending
    Message
    Open/Close
    Prestidigitation
    Ray of Frost
    Read Magic

    Resistance
    Touch of Fatigue
    None of these

Comments on 0-Level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 27 out of 100.
1ST-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Alarm
    Animate Rope
    Burning Hands
    Cause Fear
    Charm Person
    Chill Touch
    Color Spray
    Comprehend Languages
    Detect Secret Doors
    Detect Undead
    Disguise Self

    Endure Elements
    Enlarge Person
    Erase
    Expeditious Retreat
    Feather Fall
    Grease
    Hold Portal
    Hypnotism
    Identify
    Jump
    Mage Armor

    Magic Missile
    Magic Weapon
    Mount
    Nystul's Magic Aura
    Obscuring Mist
    Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Ray of Enfeeblement
    Reduce Person
    Scorching Burst
    Shield
    Shocking Grasp

    Silent Image
    Sleep
    Summon Monster
    Tenser's Floating Disk
    Thunderwave
    True Strike
    Unseen Servant
    Ventriloquism
    None of these

Comments on 1st-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 22 out of 100.
2ND-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Alter Self
    Arcane Lock
    Bear's Endurance
    Blindness/Deafness
    Blur
    Bull's Strength
    Cat's Grace
    Command Undead
    Continual Flame
    Darkness
    Darkvision
    Daze Monster
    Detect Thoughts

    Eagle's Splendor
    False Life
    Flaming Sphere
    Fog Cloud
    Fox's Cunning
    Ghoul Touch
    Glitterdust
    Gust of Wind
    Hypnotic Pattern
    Invisibility
    Knock
    Leomund's Trap
    Levitate

    Locate Object
    Magic Mouth
    Melf's Acid Arrow
    Minor Image
    Mirror Image
    Misdirection
    Obscure Object
    Owl's Wisdom
    Protection from Arrows
    Pyrotechnics
    Resist Energy
    Rope Trick
    Scare

    Scorching Ray
    See Invisibility
    Shatter
    Spectral Hand
    Spider Climb
    Summon Swarm
    Tasha's Hideous Laughter
    Touch of Idiocy
    Web
    Whispering Wind
    None of these

Comments on 2nd-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
3RD-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Arcane Sight
    Blink
    Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
    Daylight
    Deep Slumber
    Dispel Magic
    Displacement
    Explosive Runes
    Fireball
    Flame Arrow
    Fly

    Gaseous Form
    Gentle Repose
    Greater Magic Weapon
    Halt Undead
    Haste
    Heroism
    Hold Person
    Illusory Script
    Invisibility Sphere
    Keen Edge
    Leomund's Tiny Hut

    Lightning Bolt
    Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Major Image
    Nondetection
    Phantom Steed
    Protection from Energy
    Rage
    Ray of Exhaustion
    Secret Page
    Sepia Snake Sigil
    Shrink Item

    Sleet Storm
    Slow
    Stinking Cloud
    Suggestion
    Tongues
    Vampiric Touch
    Water Breathing
    Wind Wall
    None of these

Comments on 3rd-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 1 out of 100.
4TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Animate Dead
    Arcane Eye
    Bestow Curse
    Charm Monster
    Confusion
    Contagion
    Crushing Despair
    Detect Scrying
    Dimension Door
    Dimensional Anchor
    Enervation

    Evard's Black Tentacles
    Fear
    Fire Shield
    Fire Trap
    Greater Invisibility
    Hallucinatory Terrain
    Ice Storm
    Illusory Wall
    Leomund's Secure Shelter
    Lesser Geas
    Lesser Globe of Invulnerability

    Locate Creature
    Mass Enlarge Person
    Mass Reduce Person
    Minor Creation
    Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
    Phantasmal Killer
    Polymorph
    Rainbow Pattern
    Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer
    Remove Curse
    Scrying

    Shadow Conjuration
    Shout
    Solid Fog
    Stone Shape
    Stoneskin
    Wall of Fire
    Wall of Ice
    None of these

Comments on 4th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
5TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Animal Growth
    Baleful Polymorph
    Bigby's Interposing Hand
    Blight
    Break Enchantment
    Cloudkill
    Cone of Cold
    Contact Other Plane
    Dismissal
    Dominate Person
    Dream

    Ethereal Plane
    Fabricate
    False Vision
    Feeblemind
    Hold Monster
    Leomund's Secret Chest
    Lesser Planar Binding
    Magic Jar
    Major Creation
    Mind Fog
    Mirage Arcana

    Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
    Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
    Nightmare
    Overland Flight
    Passwall
    Permanency
    Persistent Image
    Prying Eyes
    Rary's Telepathic Bond
    Seeming
    Sending

    Shadow Evocation
    Symbol of Pain
    Symbol of Sleep
    Telekinesis
    Teleport
    Transmute Mud to Rock
    Transmute Rock to Mud
    Wall of Force
    Wall of Stone
    Waves of Fatigue
    None of these

Comments on 5th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
6TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Acid Fog
    Analyze Dweomer
    Antimagic Field
    Bigby's Forceful Hand
    Chain Lightning
    Circle of Death
    Contingency
    Control Water
    Create Undead
    Disintegrate
    Eyebite

    Flesh to Stone
    Geas/Quest
    Globe of Invulnerability
    Greater Dispel Magic
    Greater Heroism
    Guards and Wards
    Legend Lore
    Mass Bear's Endurance
    Mass Bull's Strength
    Mass Cat's Grace
    Mass Eagle's Splendor

    Mass Fox's Cunning
    Mass Owl's Wisdom
    Mass Suggestion
    Mislead
    Mordenkainen's Lucubration
    Move Earth
    Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
    Permanent Image
    Planar Binding
    Programmed Image
    Repulsion

    Shadow Walk
    Stone to Flesh
    Symbol of Fear
    Symbol of Persuasion
    Tenser's Transformation
    True Seeing
    Undeath to Death
    Veil
    Wall of Iron
    None of these

Comments on 6th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
7TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Banishment
    Bigby's Grasping Hand
    Control Undead
    ControlWeather
    Delayed Blast Fireball
    Drawmij's Instant Summons
    Ethereal Jaunt
    Finger of Death
    Forcecage

    Greater Arcane Sight
    Greater Scrying
    Greater Shadow Conjuration
    Greater Teleport
    Insanity
    Limited Wish
    Mass Hold Person
    Mass Invisibility
    Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion

    Mordenkainen's Sword
    Phase Door
    Plane Shift
    Power Word Blind
    Prismatic Spray
    Project Image
    Reverse Gravity
    Sequester
    Simulacrum

    Spell Turning
    Statue
    Symbol of Stunning
    Symbol of Weakness
    Teleport Object
    Vision
    Waves of Exhaustion
    None of these

Comments on 7th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
8TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Antipathy
    Bigby's Clenched Fist
    Binding
    Clone
    Create Greater Undead
    Demand
    Dimensional Lock
    Discern Location
    Greater Planar Binding

    Greater Prying Eyes
    Greater Shadow Evocation
    Greater Shout
    Horrid Wilting
    Incendiary Cloud
    Iron Body
    Mass Charm Monster
    Maze
    Mind Blank

    Moment of Prescience
    Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere
    Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Polar Ray
    Polymorph Any Object
    Power Word Stun
    Prismatic Wall
    Protection from Spells
    Scintillating Pattern

    Screen
    Sunburst
    Symbol of Death
    Symbol of Insanity
    Sympathy
    Temporal Stasis
    Trap the Soul
    None of these

Comments on 8th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
9TH-LEVEL WIZARD SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Astral Projection
    Bigby's Crushing Hand
    Dominate Monster
    Energy Drain
    Etherealness
    Foresight

    Freedom
    Gate
    Imprisonment
    Mass Hold Monster
    Meteor Swarm
    Mordenkainen's Disjunction

    Power Word Kill
    Prismatic Sphere
    Refuge
    Shades
    Shapechange
    Soul Bind

    Teleportation Circle
    Time Stop
    Wail of the Banshee
    Weird
    Wish
    None of these

Comments on 9th-level wizard spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
In your opinion, which of the following spells are most iconic to the D&D cleric? In other words, what spells should be available to ensure that the cleric "feels" like a D&D cleric?    
0-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 5.) *This question is required.    

    Create Water
    Cure Minor Wounds
    Detect Magic
    Detect Poison

    Guidance
    Inflict Minor Wounds
    Light
    Mending

    Purify Food and Drink
    Read Magic
    Resistance
    Virtue

    None of these

Comments on 0-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
1ST-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Bane
    Bless
    Bless Water
    Cause Fear
    Command
    Comprehend Languages
    Cure Light Wounds
    Curse Water

    Deathwatch
    Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Detect Undead
    Divine Favor
    Doom
    Endure Elements
    Entropic Shield
    Hide from Undead

    Inflict Light Wounds
    Lance of Faith
    Magic Stone
    Magic Weapon
    Obscuring Mist
    Priest's Shield
    Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Remove Fear

    Righteous Brand
    Sacred Flame
    Sanctuary
    Shield of Faith
    Summon Monster
    None of these

Comments on 1st-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
2ND-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Aid
    Align Weapon
    Augury
    Bear's Endurance
    Bull's Strength
    Calm Emotions
    Consecrate
    Cure Moderate Wounds

    Darkness
    Death Knell
    Delay Poison
    Desecrate
    Eagle's Splendor
    Enthrall
    Find Traps
    Gentle Repose

    Hold Person
    Inflict Moderate Wounds
    Lesser Restoration
    Make Whole
    Owl's Wisdom
    Remove Paralysis
    Resist Energy
    Shatter

    Shield Other
    Silence
    Sound Burst
    Spiritual Weapon
    Status
    Undetectable Alignment
    Zone of Truth
    None of these

Comments on 2nd-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
3RD-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Animate Dead
    Bestow Curse
    Blindness/Deafness
    Contagion
    Continual Flame
    Create Food and Water
    Cure Serious Wounds
    Daylight

    Deeper Darkness
    Dispel Magic
    Glyph of Warding
    Helping Hand
    Inflict Serious Wounds
    Invisibility Purge
    Locate Object
    Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law

    Magic Vestment
    Meld into Stone
    Obscure Object
    Prayer
    Protection from Energy
    Remove Blindness/Deafness
    Remove Curse
    Remove Disease

    Searing Light
    Speak with Dead
    Stone Shape
    Water Breathing
    Water Walk
    Wind Wall
    None of these

Comments on 3rd-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
4TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Air Walk
    Control Water
    Cure Critical Wounds
    Death Ward
    Dimensional Anchor
    Discern Lies

    Dismissal
    Divination
    Divine Power
    Freedom of Movement
    Giant Vermin
    Greater Magic Weapon

    Imbue with Spell Ability
    Inflict Critical Wounds
    Lesser Planar Ally
    Neutralize Poison
    Poison
    Repel Vermin

    Restoration
    Sending
    Spell Immunity
    Tongues
    None of these

Comments on 4th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
5TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Atonement
    Break Enchantment
    Commune
    Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
    Disrupting Weapon
    Flame Strike

    Greater Command
    Hallow
    Insect Plague
    Mark of Justice
    Mass Cure Light Wounds
    Mass Inflict Light Wounds

    Plane Shift
    Raise Dead
    Righteous Might
    Scrying
    Slay Living
    Spell Resistance

    Symbol of Pain
    Symbol of Sleep
    True Seeing
    Unhallow
    Wall of Stone
    None of these

Comments on 5th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
6TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Animate Objects
    Antilife Shell
    Banishment
    Blade Barrier
    Create Undead
    Find the Path
    Forbiddance

    Geas/Quest
    Greater Dispel Magic
    Greater Glyph of Warding
    Harm
    Heal
    Heroes' Feast
    Mass Bear's Endurance

    Mass Bull's Strength
    Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
    Mass Eagle's Splendor
    Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
    Mass Owl's Wisdom
    Planar Ally
    Symbol of Fear

    Symbol of Persuasion
    Undeath to Death
    Wind Walk
    Word of Recall
    None of these

Comments on 6th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
7TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Blasphemy
    Control Weather
    Destruction
    Dictum
    Ethereal Jaunt

    Greater Restoration
    Greater Scrying
    Holy Word
    Mass Cure Serious Wounds
    Mass Inflict Serious Wounds

    Refuge
    Regenerate
    Repulsion
    Resurrection
    Symbol of Stunning

    Symbol of Weakness
    Word of Chaos
    None of these

Comments on 7th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 13 out of 100.
8TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 10.) *This question is required.    

    Antimagic Field
    Cloak of Chaos
    Create Greater Undead
    Dimensional Lock
    Discern Location

    Earthquake
    Fire Storm
    Greater Planar Ally
    Greater Spell Immunity
    Holy Aura

    Mass Cure Critical Wounds
    Mass Inflict Critical Wounds
    Shield of Law
    Symbol of Death
    Symbol of Insanity

    Unholy Aura
    None of these

Comments on 8th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 0 out of 100.
9TH-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (Please choose up to 5.) *This question is required.    

    Astral Projection
    Energy Drain
    Etherealness

    Gate
    Implosion
    Mass Heal

    Miracle
    Soul Bind
    Storm of Vengeance

    True Resurrection
    None of these

Comments on 9th-level cleric spells (optional):
Words used: 0 out of 100.
Which edition of the D&D game is your favorite? (Please choose only one.) *This question is required.    

    Original or Basic D&D    
    1st Edition (Advanced, AD&D)    
    2nd Edition    
    3rd Edition (including 3.5)    
    4th Edition    
    D&D Next    
    Other, please specify Please enter an 'other' value for this selection. * This question is required.
    I don't have a favorite edition    

Now that you've had more time to read and play with the playtest materials, how satisfied are you overall with this iteration of the playtest? *This question is required.    

    Very satisfied    
    Satisfied    
    Neither satisfied nor dissatisfied    
    Dissatisfied    
    Very dissatisfied    

Additional comments (optional):
Words used: 0 out of 500.
0%




They got many spells wrong at different levels and left out some of the most iconic spells in the game.

Then they let us pick 10 spells. Where some levels that meant not picking 1-3 spells...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Can you please put the survey in a spoiler block, so people don't have to scroll past the whole thing every time they open the topic?


That said, yeah, my feedback was basically "10 spells is not enough to cover the iconics alone" on almost every level.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
Can you please put the survey in a spoiler block, so people don't have to scroll past the whole thing every time they open the topic?


That said, yeah, my feedback was basically "10 spells is not enough to cover the iconics alone" on almost every level.




same thing here I filled my comments with the extras I needed to add.


They got many spells wrong at different levels and left out some of the most iconic spells in the game.

Then they let us pick 10 spells. Where some levels that meant not picking 1-3 spells...



So they want to see the most popular spells, not just  all the ones people think are good.  What's the problem?
Yeah, please spoiler tag it.

I was actually the opposite in terms of iconics, though.  I had maybe 5-6 spells for first and second level, and then 0-2 spells for each of the higher levels. 

I just had to ask myself, "would it still feel like D&D if the wizard/cleric couldn't cast X ?" and most of the time, the answer was, "it's never come up before, so I don't think I'd miss it."

The metagame is not the game.



They got many spells wrong at different levels and left out some of the most iconic spells in the game.

Then they let us pick 10 spells. Where some levels that meant not picking 1-3 spells...



So they want to see the most popular spells, not just  all the ones people think are good.  What's the problem?



Personally, I used my 10 exactly at some levels, and couldn't choose more than 2-3 at others. And yes, in one or two cases I wrote in what I thought was missing.

Z.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 



Yep completely agree. A lot of spells are fine if they are the 4E version, but if they are earlier versions they are completely broken...
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 



You aren't voting for either.  You're voting for exactly what they are asking.  Would teleport be needed to have the wizard feel like a wizard.  If it ends up being yes, they will come out with a version for 5e that may be one of the above two or something different.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 


That'd be the 21 write-in boxes.

Personally, I wrote in my distate for alignment-affecting spells in the core, my desire for Raise Dead's level to depend on the grittiness of the healing module in use, my deep distrust of Charm Person at 1st level, and my preference for Wish and Miracle to need quests before they're handed out.

Z.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 



Yep completely agree. A lot of spells are fine if they are the 4E version, but if they are earlier versions they are completely broken...



It's a good thing that version has nothing to do with it then.
"Iconic" doesn't mean "balanced".  Disintegrate is still iconic, even if I think Save-or-Die spells are bad for the game.  Likewise with Teleport and Raise Dead.

I mostly used my comment blocks to suggest that it's okay for iconic spells to change spell level.  While Charm Person might be a game breaker at level 1, I would much rather play in a world with Charm Person as a level 4 spell than in one where it didn't exist at all.

The metagame is not the game.

Where is this survey?
I'm not going to have the chance to reply to this until after work, but it is going to include some sort of comment on if you are putting this much emphasis on the magic system at the likely expense of other aspects of the game, I'm probably not going to bother with this game. That and clicking the extremely disappointed box.
...whatever

Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 



.......sigh. Its not meaningless, we know what they are, why do people have to be so difficult. Please just please dont even bother doing the survey so your obscured and biased view has no part of the edition I plan on purchasing. The point is to choose which spells are iconic.

 And as far as teleportation (and all other spells for that matter) is concerned USE THE RULES, there is a very good probability they end up in a wall, another plane, somewhere else. Unless its greater teleport, which is 7th level which in vancian would be a 14th? lvl wizard. So yea overland travel should pretty much be done by then. NTM spell componants.

 


Thank you WoTC for allowing me to have a say in the creation of this game. Good work

Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please
Where is this survey?


If you signed up for the playtest then you should find a link to it in your email.
I was very happy to select many of those spells as iconic especially those that made the wizard and cleric versitile.   

Fly returning as a 3rd level spell is great.   I just hope that spells like raise dead can be cast during combat.   



I was very happy to select many of those spells as iconic especially those that made the wizard and cleric versitile.   

Fly returning as a 3rd level spell is great.   I just hope that spells like raise dead can be cast during combat.   





I didn't get the feel that those spell levels were necessarily set on stone.  It looked more like they just wanted to know which spells made wizards feel like wizards and were using the 3e spell list as a basis for their questioning.
WoTC. Plaese, make a survey asking about Vancian Casting.
I was surprised at how many more Wizard spells I considered iconic compared to cleric spells. For many cleric levels I struggled to pick any at all, while for all but the last few wizard levels I had tons of clear choices.

My comments were pretty sparse, mostly along the lines that if they're really planning on doing anything more than paying lip service to exploration and interaction as pillars of the game experience then those things shouldn't be trivial to circumvent. (Not that magic shouldn't interact with them, just that I personally feel that right now it interacts with them a little too powerfully.) That's tough, because many of the most iconic spells in the game sort of do exactly that.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
Where is this survey?



It just got sent out in the email
"Unite the [fan] base? Hardly. As of right now, I doubt their ability to unite a slightly unruly teabag with a cup of water."--anjelika
1-4E play style
The 4E play style is a high action cinematic style of play where characters worry less about being killed in one hit and more about strategy and what their next move is and the one after it. The players talk back and forth about planning a battle and who can do what to influence the outcome. 4E play is filled with cinematic over the top action. An Eladrin teleports out of the grip of the Ogre. The Fighter slams the dragons foot with his hammer causing it to rear up and stagger back in pain. The Cleric creates a holy zone where their allies weapons are guided to their targets and whenever an enemy dies the Clerics allies are healed. 4E is about knowing when to lauch your nova attack, whether its a huge arcane spell that causes enemies to whirl around in a chaotic storm, or if its a trained adrenaline surge that causes you to attack many many times with two weapons on a single target, or a surge of adrenaline that keeps you going though you should already be dead. Its about tactics and the inability to carry around a bag of potions or a few wands and never have to worry about healing. Its about the guy that can barely role play having the same chance to convince the king to aid the group as the guy that takes improv acting classes and regularly stars as an extra on movies.
Stormwind Fallacy
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa. Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game. Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse role player if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically role played better than an optimized one, and vice versa. ...[aside]... Proof: These two elements rely on different aspects of a player's game play. Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Role playing deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else. A person can act while understanding the rules, and can build something powerful while still handling an effective character. There is nothing in the game -- mechanical or otherwise -- restricting one if you participate in the other. Claiming that an optimizer cannot role play (or is participating in a play style that isn't supportive of role playing) because he is an optimizer, or vice versa, is committing the Stormwind Fallacy.
The spells we should getLook here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. My 4E Fantasy Grounds game is currently full.
I was very happy to select many of those spells as iconic especially those that made the wizard and cleric versitile.   

Fly returning as a 3rd level spell is great.   I just hope that spells like raise dead can be cast during combat.


As noted, I don't think these levels are set in stone.

And I for one do not want Raise Dead to be safe to cast in combat, even if it is possible.

Z.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 


Just quoting this.

I couldn't give a teeny tiny rat's derrierre what the spells are called.  I fully intend to reflavour and describe my spells and abilities to my heart's content, regardless of whether that 'feels like D&D' to someone else.  It damn sure feels like it to ME.

What I want, the only thing I have ever wanted and will ever want, from a game system, is good, sensible, well-thought-out and well-executed design, with strong underlying principles, balanced mechanics, and high-quality writing with as little ambiguity as possible.  In short, a game that's fun to play, not because you don't know any better, or because it reminds me of earlier games where the game was made fun basically by ignoring what the designers had done, but because it's fun in and of itself.  The rest is role playing.

THAT is what I can't do myself; I'm not a game designer.  The fluff, I can do myself; it's the reason I got into RPGing in the first place - to exercise, as much as possible, my creative side.

To summarise, as I've been saying since the very first 5e poll came out:  where's the 'who cares about the utterly irrelevant fluff, do some damn mechanics' option?  Mechanics are what I'll pay for, mechanics are what I want to see coming out of the design team.  Fluff is mutable, and basically irrelevant.

At least the poll's not offensively poorly-written this time - although 'feels like D&D' is a suitably vague and non-informative concept that it's bad enough.

Try harder.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.
This poll revealed to me what should be a meme for 5E:

The tyranny of "feel" 
...whatever
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.


The point is that the name has NO bearing whatsoever on the 'type of effect' it could produce.

To take what is probably, to me, the best know example; Magic Missile.  ALL that the name tells us is that it's a missle (i.e. some kind of projectile, presumably used at range), which is magic in some way.

That could be anything from David Copperfield flicking a coin in your face that he palmed from behind his ear, to a first level post-essentials 4e wizard doing pathetic autodamage, to Mjolnir being thrown at you by Thor, to someone pulling the moon out of the sky and dropping it on your head.  None of that says anything meaningful about what the thing does, and what we should expect from the game.

Names make no difference.

I think a wizard should be able to do stuff, but not stuff that has names at all, necessarily.  I do, however, think that a wizard in D&D, a small-group combat/exploration/social role playing game, should have some balanced mechanics to describe what he can do in relation to the challenges he faces within the structure of the game, and that you should let the guy PLAYING the wizard describe what the powers look like, and what they're called, however HE feels like D&D should be described, and however HE has fun with it.

End the tyranny of feel.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.


The point is that the name has NO bearing whatsoever on the 'type of effect' it could produce.

To take what is probably, to me, the best know example; Magic Missile.  ALL that the name tells us is that it's a missle (i.e. some kind of projectile, presumably used at range), which is magic in some way.



Except in the context of D&D Magic Missile means something, Teleport means something,  Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion means something to D&D players.  Fireball means something almost specific.  Many of the iconics they listed in fact can be abstractly described without any mechanics being involved.  So yeah the names do describe what type of effect it could produce.  It isn't as if a spell called magic missile is going to just create water for your horse to drink.
I don't think the survey was about the name at all.  I think it was about the effect of the spell.


Take, for example, Teleport.  To me, a wizard who cannot teleport (as a verb; meaning 'to travel from point A to point B without crossing the intervening distance') is missing an important quality.


I don't care whether he casts dimension door as a utility power and teleports 10 squares.  I don't care if he casts the linked portal ritual and teleports to a known place.  I don't care if he casts teleport without error and goes to a place he's never been before.  Each of these has benefits and drawbacks.  What's important to me, in terms of 'iconic wizard' is that he have some ability to travel without crossing the intervening distance.


Similarly, I marked Fireball as iconic.  I don't care if it's a 20-foot radius ball of flame dealing 1d6 damage per caster level, or if it's an area burst 5 dealing 4d6 damage.  What's important to me is that a wizard be able to blow **** up.
The difference between madness and genius is determined only by degrees of success.
I don't think the survey was about the name at all.  I think it was about the effect of the spell.


Take, for example, Teleport.  To me, a wizard who cannot teleport (as a verb; meaning 'to travel from point A to point B without crossing the intervening distance') is missing an important quality.


I don't care whether he casts dimension door as a utility power and teleports 10 squares.  I don't care if he casts the linked portal ritual and teleports to a known place.  I don't care if he casts teleport without error and goes to a place he's never been before.  Each of these has benefits and drawbacks.  What's important to me, in terms of 'iconic wizard' is that he have some ability to travel without crossing the intervening distance.


Similarly, I marked Fireball as iconic.  I don't care if it's a 20-foot radius ball of flame dealing 1d6 damage per caster level, or if it's an area burst 5 dealing 4d6 damage.  What's important to me is that a wizard be able to blow **** up.




This guy gets it
Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please
Except in the context of D&D Magic Missile means something, Teleport means something,  Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion means something to D&D players.  Fireball means something almost specific.  Many of the iconics they listed in fact can be abstractly described without any mechanics being involved.  So yeah the names do describe what type of effect it could produce.  It isn't as if a spell called magic missile is going to just create water for your horse to drink.

I'll admit that I checked the box for "Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound" exclusively on the merits of the old Dead Alewives bit.

The metagame is not the game.

Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.


The point is that the name has NO bearing whatsoever on the 'type of effect' it could produce.

To take what is probably, to me, the best know example; Magic Missile.  ALL that the name tells us is that it's a missle (i.e. some kind of projectile, presumably used at range), which is magic in some way.



Except in the context of D&D Magic Missile means something, Teleport means something,  Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion means something to D&D players.  Fireball means something almost specific.  Many of the iconics they listed in fact can be abstractly described without any mechanics being involved.  So yeah the names do describe what type of effect it could produce.  It isn't as if a spell called magic missile is going to just create water for your horse to drink.


Except that, for instance, a Waterbender from Avatar could cast a magic missile that absolutely creates water for your horse to drink.  If my Magic Missile was a globe of water I shot at you, or for that matter, a ball of ice, it could do that.

Being hogtied by the feel of D&D (i.e. what the game used to be like), will hamper the designers from actually designing a better game.  If they can't break those bounds, I can't see myself buying whatever it is they manage to finally excrete.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
I don't think the survey was about the name at all.  I think it was about the effect of the spell.


Take, for example, Teleport.  To me, a wizard who cannot teleport (as a verb; meaning 'to travel from point A to point B without crossing the intervening distance') is missing an important quality.


I don't care whether he casts dimension door as a utility power and teleports 10 squares.  I don't care if he casts the linked portal ritual and teleports to a known place.  I don't care if he casts teleport without error and goes to a place he's never been before.  Each of these has benefits and drawbacks.  What's important to me, in terms of 'iconic wizard' is that he have some ability to travel without crossing the intervening distance.


Similarly, I marked Fireball as iconic.  I don't care if it's a 20-foot radius ball of flame dealing 1d6 damage per caster level, or if it's an area burst 5 dealing 4d6 damage.  What's important to me is that a wizard be able to blow **** up.




The name gives the effect of the spell.

If fireball and simply an entry called Fiery Eplosion had been on the same list which would you choose?
If Fireball hadn't been on the list at all and Fiery Explosion had been would you have selected it or gone with another 3rd level spell going by a known D&D spell name?

The spells indicate their flavor and feel via their names.
 
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.


The point is that the name has NO bearing whatsoever on the 'type of effect' it could produce.

To take what is probably, to me, the best know example; Magic Missile.  ALL that the name tells us is that it's a missle (i.e. some kind of projectile, presumably used at range), which is magic in some way.



Except in the context of D&D Magic Missile means something, Teleport means something,  Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion means something to D&D players.  Fireball means something almost specific.  Many of the iconics they listed in fact can be abstractly described without any mechanics being involved.  So yeah the names do describe what type of effect it could produce.  It isn't as if a spell called magic missile is going to just create water for your horse to drink.


Except that, for instance, a Waterbender from Avatar could cast a magic missile that absolutely creates water for your horse to drink.  If my Magic Missile was a globe of water I shot at you, or for that matter, a ball of ice, it could do that.

Being hogtied by the feel of D&D (i.e. what the game used to be like), will hamper the designers from actually designing a better game.  If they can't break those bounds, I can't see myself buying whatever it is they manage to finally excrete.




Again, people being difficult. Magic Missile has context in DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. What you are describing also has context in DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS its called create water. You cant ask for Fireball and expect the DESIGHNERS to have it be a ice ball. But with player DM interction it can be.

Would you expect Final Fantasy to not have any chocobos?
Would you expect the NBA to start playing with Purple pokadoted footballs?

Magic missle is f$%# magic missle, it shoots x amount of f^%$ magic missles at the targe for x damage.

ugh you people enfuriate me
Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please
Where's the "this survey is meaningless without any assessment of how the spells are actually used and balanced in the game" button? I mean, if I pick Teleport am I voting for the 4E version where portals cut down on teleport abuse? Or am I voting for the older version where the wizard snaps his fingers and makes overland travel irrelevant? 




Neither, you are just saying I think a wizard should be able to do something with this name.  You are saying this type of effect is something the caster should be capable of.


The point is that the name has NO bearing whatsoever on the 'type of effect' it could produce.

To take what is probably, to me, the best know example; Magic Missile.  ALL that the name tells us is that it's a missle (i.e. some kind of projectile, presumably used at range), which is magic in some way.



Except in the context of D&D Magic Missile means something, Teleport means something,  Mordenkinen's Magnificent Mansion means something to D&D players.  Fireball means something almost specific.  Many of the iconics they listed in fact can be abstractly described without any mechanics being involved.  So yeah the names do describe what type of effect it could produce.  It isn't as if a spell called magic missile is going to just create water for your horse to drink.


Except that, for instance, a Waterbender from Avatar could cast a magic missile that absolutely creates water for your horse to drink.  If my Magic Missile was a globe of water I shot at you, or for that matter, a ball of ice, it could do that.

Being hogtied by the feel of D&D (i.e. what the game used to be like), will hamper the designers from actually designing a better game.  If they can't break those bounds, I can't see myself buying whatever it is they manage to finally excrete.




Except in D&D Magic Missile literally means a missile made of magical force.  That is what the name means.  The exact mechanics are unknown (Autohit for 1d4+1 damage per missile), but that doesn't matter because we get the jist of what that spell is going to do.  
I was surprised at how many more Wizard spells I considered iconic compared to cleric spells. For many cleric levels I struggled to pick any at all, while for all but the last few wizard levels I had tons of clear choices.



Same here. I think that's because a Wizard, as a concept, is broader in scope than a Cleric.


As for how I answered it, I did it much like ankiyavon. It wasn't so much about power level or specific effects, but rather "If you can't cast spell X, you ain't a Cleric/Wizard."

I don't think the survey was about the name at all.  I think it was about the effect of the spell.


Take, for example, Teleport.  To me, a wizard who cannot teleport (as a verb; meaning 'to travel from point A to point B without crossing the intervening distance') is missing an important quality.


I don't care whether he casts dimension door as a utility power and teleports 10 squares.  I don't care if he casts the linked portal ritual and teleports to a known place.  I don't care if he casts teleport without error and goes to a place he's never been before.  Each of these has benefits and drawbacks.  What's important to me, in terms of 'iconic wizard' is that he have some ability to travel without crossing the intervening distance.


Similarly, I marked Fireball as iconic.  I don't care if it's a 20-foot radius ball of flame dealing 1d6 damage per caster level, or if it's an area burst 5 dealing 4d6 damage.  What's important to me is that a wizard be able to blow **** up.




The name gives the effect of the spell.

If fireball and simply an entry called Fiery Eplosion had been on the same list which would you choose?
If Fireball hadn't been on the list at all and Fiery Explosion had been would you have selected it or gone with another 3rd level spell going by a known D&D spell name?

The spells indicate their flavor and feel via their names.
 


Fiery explosion would be an explosion that is fiery.  It could be as small as lighting a match, or as big as the sun.  It could be short enough in duration and low enough in temperature as not to be harmful at all, or it could be an h-bomb.  It could create a campfire, or lay waste to a continent.  The name tells you basically nothing.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
There should be a box we can check that reads: Fighters and Rogues should get powerful and interesting abilities like these and just as many as the magic casters get.
...whatever
..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Except in D&D Magic Missile literally means a missile made of magical force.


Why?
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
There should be a box we can check that reads: Fighters and Rogues should get powerful and interesting abilities like these and just as many as the magic casters get.



There kind of was, the general comment box at the end. That's part of what I put there anyway. Also my hope for a non-Vancian wizard.
I was surprised at how many more Wizard spells I considered iconic compared to cleric spells. For many cleric levels I struggled to pick any at all, while for all but the last few wizard levels I had tons of clear choices.

I felt the same way about wizard vs. cleric spells.

Further, I noticed after level 6, I didn't feel like any spells were iconic for either class.  I considered Wish and Time Warp, but realized it ultimately didn't matter to me.

For the Wizard, I felt like I had to severely edit myself when it came to 1st and 3rd level spells, but the other levels were easy--I think I checked off less than 5 each.

I also found myself checking all the blast spells: Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, Chain Lightning, even Flamestrike for the Cleric.  As a child of 2e, I guess I just miss the days when blasting and quirky stuff was the wizard's thing.

With the Cleric, I don't know, I saw a lot of the overpowered buffs that I associate with them from 3rd, but remembering from 2e, the only iconic ones I really checked off were the cure/inflict series, heal/harm, the light/darkness spells, and Flame Strike.  I'm not saying the cleric shouldn't cast other spells, just that I'm not especially concerned with what those are. 
I made sure to tell them at every opportunity how terrible I think Vancian casting is. I don't really care what spells are in 5e, and whether or not they are "iconic" as long as casters are using Vancian casting.

If I ever DM 5e, I'll be sure to ban all Vancian casters.
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