So no more VTT?

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Anyone really surprised? Typical WOTC. Promising something and not delivering. Again. Plus I don't see any kind of formal announcement saying they are pulling the plug on yet another failed software project. Just like 4 years ago when 4th Ed hit and people were coming to the forums asking where all these great tools that were in the back of the core books. No word from them for 3 weeks after. They said something in the news feed a couple weeks before that. But by the time the books hit the stores, the story was buried and hard to find. 

Just like WOTC pulling there MtG toolbox app from the app store. People are asking what's going on with it. Not a word from them about that either.

Now WOTC has quietly canceled the VTT, without any kind of announcement. WOTC is scarred of bad PR so they choose to say nothing.

At least Pazio is totally upfront and honest with there customers. if something is canceled or delayed, they tell there customers. Better for customers to know what's going on then to expect blind loyalty.

But we should all stay positive, right? WOTC wants robot customers that hand them money because it says Dungeons and Dragons on the cover. They don't want customers to think for themselves, or question.

Pazio respects the customer. 
I must concur.

I spent a few dollars on the Paizo Pathfinder beginner box.  My group played, liked it, and ordered the core books, a DM Shield, and a deck of condition cards.

The most striking thing was, they were THRILLED when I told them they could get minatures/figurines for Pathfinder.  They are ordering them and ready to have a paint party, replete with requisite Mountain Dew and Doritoes (coold ranch, of course!).

Point is... how simple a thing to have minatures made FOR the game?..  how simple would it be to hire a decent coder to program a kick ass VT?  A better and more robust CB, MB and EB!?

My group has already decided to stay with 2nd, 4th and Pathfinder, expressing NO interest in spending anymore money with wotc.  I even have the Next/5e playtest set... no soap.  They were not interested.

Is Hasbro being the bad guy here?.. or are the wotc devs just not getting it?
 


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Is Hasbro being the bad guy here?.. or are the wotc devs just not getting it?
 




Given the history of DDi, I have to say the people at WOTC don't get it.

Is Hasbro being the bad guy here?.. or are the wotc devs just not getting it?


Hasbro has billion dollar brands to manage, their own entire company. They're a little busy to micromanage WotC's tertiary product lines.
It's ALL WotC. 

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Damn, really wish I would of visited the forums first before wasting $10 to get insider 90% for VTT. From what I've seen it looks really good with everything being automated but as a DM I wouldn't spend the hours needed to learn the tool if it's not getting any development. Broke my heart to see no games up and hardly any posts for online game =/
Now WOTC has quietly canceled the VTT, without any kind of announcement. WOTC is scarred of bad PR so they choose to say nothing.


I got an announcement.  Check your e-mail and broadcasts.  It's there.  There's no need to make a public announcement to anyone but DDI subscribers, due to the facts that they're the only people who could access it in the first place, and it was never officially released.

The broadcast was an official announcement of the discontinuation of the Virtual Tabletop.  Did you expect a panel at GenCon or something?

Damn, really wish I would of visited the forums first before wasting $10 to get insider 90% for VTT. From what I've seen it looks really good with everything being automated but as a DM I wouldn't spend the hours needed to learn the tool if it's not getting any development. Broke my heart to see no games up and hardly any posts for online game =/



There are two forums in the VTT group for games and both are quite active. Its a good place to find a game and post one.
Damn, really wish I would of visited the forums first before wasting $10 to get insider 90% for VTT. From what I've seen it looks really good with everything being automated but as a DM I wouldn't spend the hours needed to learn the tool if it's not getting any development. Broke my heart to see no games up and hardly any posts for online game =/



community.wizards.com/dndbeta/go/forum/v...

there are two "Find a Campaign" sections here, one for casual, one for organized.  In the casual one, there is a folder for LFR games, and another for non LFR games, and both are fairly active.  You won't see games on the campaign manager because of a quirky feature, and because of inconsiderate players.  If I were to start a game right now on the VT, and open it up on the campaign manager, say a Darksun game, with 6 open slots.  Within an hour maybe, 6 people would have "joined" that table.  Once the game reaches start time, or all those open slots are filled, the table drops from view, so here is where two problems occur

1) Of those 6 people, experience proves that maybe 1 or 2 have actually read the notes, want to play, follow any limitations/restrictions, and will show up at game time.  The others just joined because they saw a shiny "join" button, and they never read the notes, comments, rules, start time, and they don't show up.

2) People still interested in active games are out of luck, because WOTC never implemented a way for people to view that games were happening, even after they filled up, or had already started.   If there was a way to view games, even after full, you could have sent a Private Message to the DM "Hey, I see your table is full, but I would like to play, please consider me an alternate if no one shows up"..  In some cases, the DM might have added another open slot and invited you if you showed interest.

So, those are the two main reasons the campaign manager seems inactive, even though there are almost constantly games going on.  Check the forums for open games looking for players.  POST in the forums that you are a player looking for a game.

Just because WOTC is dropping this VT ball at the end of the month, doesn't mean we will be left in the cold.  Gametableonline.com is picking it up and running with it, so I would suggest heading there and registering an account if you haven't already.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
Now WOTC has quietly canceled the VTT, without any kind of announcement. WOTC is scarred of bad PR so they choose to say nothing.


I got an announcement.  Check your e-mail and broadcasts.  It's there.  There's no need to make a public announcement to anyone but DDI subscribers, due to the facts that they're the only people who could access it in the first place, and it was never officially released.

The broadcast was an official announcement of the discontinuation of the Virtual Tabletop.  Did you expect a panel at GenCon or something?




What about potential subscribers? Beta's theses days, especially ones available to every subscriber anyway, aren't usually quietly talked about things.
Damn, really wish I would of visited the forums first before wasting $10 to get insider 90% for VTT. From what I've seen it looks really good with everything being automated but as a DM I wouldn't spend the hours needed to learn the tool if it's not getting any development. Broke my heart to see no games up and hardly any posts for online game =/



community.wizards.com/dndbeta/go/forum/v...

there are two "Find a Campaign" sections here, one for casual, one for organized.  In the casual one, there is a folder for LFR games, and another for non LFR games, and both are fairly active.  You won't see games on the campaign manager because of a quirky feature, and because of inconsiderate players.  If I were to start a game right now on the VT, and open it up on the campaign manager, say a Darksun game, with 6 open slots.  Within an hour maybe, 6 people would have "joined" that table.  Once the game reaches start time, or all those open slots are filled, the table drops from view, so here is where two problems occur

1) Of those 6 people, experience proves that maybe 1 or 2 have actually read the notes, want to play, follow any limitations/restrictions, and will show up at game time.  The others just joined because they saw a shiny "join" button, and they never read the notes, comments, rules, start time, and they don't show up.

2) People still interested in active games are out of luck, because WOTC never implemented a way for people to view that games were happening, even after they filled up, or had already started.   If there was a way to view games, even after full, you could have sent a Private Message to the DM "Hey, I see your table is full, but I would like to play, please consider me an alternate if no one shows up"..  In some cases, the DM might have added another open slot and invited you if you showed interest.

So, those are the two main reasons the campaign manager seems inactive, even though there are almost constantly games going on.  Check the forums for open games looking for players.  POST in the forums that you are a player looking for a game.

Just because WOTC is dropping this VT ball at the end of the month, doesn't mean we will be left in the cold.  Gametableonline.com is picking it up and running with it, so I would suggest heading there and registering an account if you haven't already.

Thanks a ton, didnt know.

Despite being a subscriber I recieved no notification of the VTT being sold off.

So now I can still use the product I (through subscription) helped pay to develop if I am willing to pay another company as well. Frown

Thanks WotC I didn't see the ability to get me to pay for something twice coming.

Gametableonline have picked it up and are SELLING it. In order to use it you have to spend more money. It works out about a lot more expensive than a DDI account.

That is extremely misleading hup, bordering on a bold faced lie. U can access and use the table free of charge. U can import cb pcs free of charge. U are given all level one and two monster access free of charge. U are given the wilderness and dungeon tile sets free of charge. I have ten plus players in two campaigns that have never payed a thin dime to use the table. Ask them if its a value compared to ddi. That said, yes u can pay for storage and extra features; wow what a shocker! Regardless, all a dm has to do is keep their table open under the campaign manager and u basically store ur campaign for free. Don't believe me? I invite any and all to follow the link in my signature and see for yourself how flat out wrong and misleading hups post is. We would love to have more players join the community. When ddi gets shut off, u can still import ur pcs from ur cpu, even from the old offline cb, and access all 4e monster data. If u just want to play, u will never have to spend a penny, so don't believe the lies


Gametableonline have picked it up and are SELLING it. In order to use it you have to spend more money. It works out about a lot more expensive than a DDI account.




Wow.  Yes, you may subscribe if you want, but you don't have to.


I run a Darksun game, and I don't pay a monthly subscription cost.

I have paid some money for the optional things, like more tile sets, you know, those sets we kept asking Wizards to release but they never would.  

But like Frothsof, I too have players that have been playing in my Darksun game without ever paying GTO a dime.

Please don't spread mis information.  I get enough of that from campaign ads for the upcoming election.
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
Despite being a subscriber I recieved no notification of the VTT being sold off.

So now I can still use the product I (through subscription) helped pay to develop if I am willing to pay another company as well.

Thanks WotC I didn't see the ability to get me to pay for something twice coming.

Gametableonline have picked it up and are SELLING it. In order to use it you have to spend more money. It works out about a lot more expensive than a DDI account.


View my response to hup's "math" here.

Funny since I didn't put any maths here... but I will:

The VTT was added to the DDI free of charge, I had a DDI account before the VTT and after the VTT, therefore it's cost to me was $0.00.

To actually use the VTT at GameTableOnline you NEED access to monsters above 2nd level - unless you play a very limited campaign where no one advances. To get access to monster above 2nd level you will need to pay either $8.40 for each tier or $18 for all 3 tiers.

So here is some basic maths: Cost of VTT as part of DDI subscription = $0.00, cost to actually use it at GameTableOnline minimum of $8+ therefore they are selling it.

$8 >> $0 therefore it costs me more.


I will further point out that a DDI account costs $70 annually and GTO account costs $96 annually


www.rpgtableonline.com/market/premium.ph... << not free
 
www.rpgtableonline.com/market/store.php << not free


 

i just want every forum-goer that reads this to know, this guy is completely full of crap. you NEVER EVER need to pay to play on the table. EVER. likewise, you NEVER EVER need to pay to DM. They give you two levels of monsters FREE. They give you tiles FREE. You can pull PCs in from your CPU FREE. If you want to access all of the monster data, you can pay for it, WHAT A SHOCKER; a one time charge for all of the monsters that you are paying monthly for right now! and if and when ddi is cancelled, you still have them; you arent completely screwed like you would have been otherwise. and hups...mad about that? Undecided If the two bits is really breaking your bank, you can input monsters manually; thats what we did for A WHOLE FREAKING YEAR when wizards ran it. copy/pasting a sessions worth of monsters takes TEN MINUTES AT MOST. cry me a river.

this guy has no idea what he is talking about; i beg any readers to please ignore these blatant lies. if anyone simply checks it out for themselves, they will see that i am telling the plain and honest truth. see for yourself.

if you like you can pm me and i will give you a free tour of the table.

Please feel free to point out where I lied? Otherwise please feel free to appologise.

At the time WotC removed the VTT, it worked complete with ALL the monsters - yes I made custom monsters too (I did so in the builder and then imported them as needed) but the VTT (complete with monster import) was completely FREE.

As I have stated many times now (obviously reading isn't your strong point) yes you can use it for free, but not at the same level it was when it was free. To use it at the same level as it was when it was free you have to pay.

Yes you had free city, dungeon and wilderness tiles when it was free and yes you had tokens when it was free (in fact more than it now has).\

How about you stop trying to mislead people and admit that to use the program at the same level of functionality it had when it was free it will cost money (or many hours of your time inputting every monster by hand)?
To actually use the VTT at GameTableOnline you NEED access to monsters above 2nd level - unless you play a very limited campaign where no one advances.

Not really.  I ran paragon games on the VT Beta before we had the ability to import monsters, and I could easily do it again.  you don't NEEDaccess to higher level monsters, they just make things more convenient.  


So here is some basic maths: Cost of VTT as part of DDI subscription = $0.00, cost to actually use it at GameTableOnline minimum of $8+ therefore they are selling it.

$8 >> $0 therefore it costs me more.

I will further point out that a DDI account costs $70 annually and GTO account costs $96 annually


www.rpgtableonline.com/market/premium.ph... << not free
 
www.rpgtableonline.com/market/store.php << not free



Cost of RPGTO to use is a minimum of $0

One doesn't NEED a Premium subscription to play or DM, and few people actually subscribe.  You don't NEED to spend out of pocket cash to acquire GTO gold to unlock some of the optional conveniences.  There are free offers that you can use to acquire it.  Do enough of them over time, and you can buy every tile, token and optional convenience without ever spending a dime of real money

spending real money gets these optional offerings faster, and makes things more convenient, but they are far from REQUIRED
"Five million Cybermen, easy. One Doctor? NOW you're scared!" - Rose Tyler
Please feel free to point out where I lied?


Okay.

First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing.


False. It came with the DDI subscription, but that doesn't make it free. You couldn't invite all your friends to play it. They had to subscribe as well, as I did. By your logic, everything on RPGTO is available for free...so long as you have a GTO premium subscription for their board games.

However if you want access to monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra. [snip] so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.


False. It just means you can't import pre-made monsters. No big deal, I created most of mine from scratch in the first place.

Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.


What tile sets have you already paid for? I thought you said the VT was completely free? Besides, you GET two tile sets for free on the GTO VT that are the equivalent of what was available from WotC.

To actually use the VTT at GameTableOnline you NEED access to monsters above 2nd level - unless you play a very limited campaign where no one advances.


False.

cost to actually use it at GameTableOnline minimum of $8+ therefore they are selling it.


False.

-

Yep, looks like lies and misinformation to me.

You don't know what you're talking about. And we, the people who have actually tried RPGTO, have the real facts. Here's a few.



  • On GTO, you can connect with people on the forums, find games and campaigns, 100% free. The WotC VT forums were DDI-only. DDI isn't free.

  • On GTO, you can play and run games 100% free, no subscription required. The WotC VT was DDI-only. DDI isn't free.

  • On GTO, you can start a campaign, invite all your friends to play, and they can do so 100% free, no subscription required. Back on WotC's VT, it was completely unreasonable to invite your friends to play, requiring them to subscribe just for a weekly game.

  • On GTO, you can, OPTIONALLY, purchase tile sets and tokens, many of which were never available before. We never had such options on WotC's VT.

  • With a GTO subscription, you can even share maps and adventures. WotC took that feature away from us entirely. GTO gave it back.

  • GTO is actively working on improving the VT and adding new content. WotC let the VT fester and rot completely.


This is to educate the uninformed. This is not to convince you, hup, as you've obviously made up your mind. But at least stop spreading misinformation.


First the VTT was added to DDI *free* - it cost nothing.


False. It came with the DDI subscription, but that doesn't make it free.


Actually (as I have explained before) I had a DDI subscription BEFORE the VTT, the VTT was added to my subscription at NO ADDITIONAL COST therefore to me it was free. Did WotC increase the cost of DDI when they added VTT or was it added free? Second again as I have pointed out before NO you didn't need to have a DDI subscription to play games on the VTT, you had an invite system.

However if you want access to monsters above 2nd level you need to pay extra. [snip] so the assertion that you can run campaigns for free is false.


False. It just means you can't import pre-made monsters.


I still assert no one is running a campaign without access to monster data. Claiming you ran an adventure or two without access by typing in monster data is you trying to deceive people. No one I have spoken to who uses the RPGTO who RUNS campaigns does so without access to monster data. Can you? That is not the point the point is I had this functionality they now charge me for it.

Paying for the right to use tile sets I have already paid WotC for also feels like I am being charged twice.


What tile sets have you already paid for? I thought you said the VT was completely free? Besides, you GET two tile sets for free on the GTO VT that are the equivalent of what was available from WotC.


"Feels" like I am paying twice I paid WotC for the ACTUAL tiles and then have to pay to use them in another format. No wait I can scan my tiles and upload them to the RPGTO, yes but once again they CHARGE me for that as well. Actually we HAD three tile sets on the VTT, I believe you still get three on RPGTO.

To actually use the VTT at GameTableOnline you NEED access to monsters above 2nd level - unless you play a very limited campaign where no one advances.


False.


Actually to use the VTT (as it worked when it was the VTT) I still assert you need monsters and again the data proves this because everyone USING it to RUN a campaign has access to monster data. For me monsters above 2nd level are necessary to run a campaign. Yes we had this in the VTT now it costs money. As I have shown many times in the past. Maybe it is my opinion that you need monster to play DnD; but I think it's a fairly common opinion.

cost to actually use it at GameTableOnline minimum of $8+ therefore they are selling it.


False.



Here is a link to their website with their own charges. www.rpgtableonline.com/market/store.php If they are not selling it why do they have a store? The minimum cost to use RPGTO as the VTT will be actually quite a bit higher - I was working on the minimum to make it it usable to most people.

Yep, looks like lies and misinformation to me.


So I have misinformed people by providing links and actual examples? And I have lied because you misinterpreted what I actually wrote?

You don't know what you're talking about. And we, the people who have actually tried RPGTO, have the real facts. Here's a few.


  • On GTO, you can play and run games 100% free, no subscription required. The WotC VT was DDI-only. DDI isn't free.

  • On GTO, you can start a campaign, invite all your friends to play, and they can do so 100% free, no subscription required. Back on WotC's VT, it was completely unreasonable to invite your friends to play, requiring them to subscribe just for a weekly game.



This is an outright lie. First you do have to subscribe to GTO in order to use the RPGTO, yes subscribing to their website is free and no you don't need a premium subscription. Second yes I could invite my non-DDI friends to play on the VTT and no they didn't require a DDI subscription. Third I do know what I am talking about I have used RPGTO.




  • On GTO, you can, OPTIONALLY, purchase tile sets and tokens, many of which were never available before. We never had such options on WotC's VT.

  • With a GTO subscription, you can even share maps and adventures. WotC took that feature away from us entirely. GTO gave it back.

  • GTO is actively working on improving the VT and adding new content. WotC let the VT fester and rot completely.



These are all valid points but I never said they didn't in fact in pretty much every post I commended them for improving the VTT.


This is to educate the uninformed. This is not to convince you, hup, as you've obviously made up your mind. But at least stop spreading misinformation.



If your goal is to educate you must present an unbiased view - you have not done so. I repeat I am not spreading misinformation, I am presenting facts. People are free to follow the links to know what they have to pay for AND what they get for free, BEFORE signing up.

Further on my previous comment on getting GTO gold free through offers I can update people on my progress:
In just over a day of grinding gold I have accumulated 61 GTO gold. (135 needed to get 1 tier of monsters, or 300 to get all three)

However using "offers" I have also encountered at least one trojan (easily stopped by having current AVG anti-virus free edition), and several offers that don't pay out even if you go through them. I would like to clarify this is not GameTableOnline's fault (directly), the 3rd party company they use to process the "free offers" (RadiumOne) is at fault. I have reported the trojan to RadiumOne - if you are grinding free gold at GTO do NOT click on the "Gimp image editing software" offer - it doesn't install Gimp it installs a trojan.

While this is not GameTableOnline they really should try to make sure the company they sub-contract to is reliable and safe for their customers, IMHO.

Last let me say I recommend people DO check out GameTableOnline.com if they are interested in the VTT. The company is doing a lot of work to update and improve the VTT. Just be aware that the improvements cost money and make sure you understand what you are and are not getting for free.

Good luck, good gaming and good bye.