Guild Purposes

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I was just wondering what the purpose of each guild was in and for Ravnica.

Azorius was the Government.

Golgari was the waste management and made the food.

Izzet provided new technology and gave Ravnica power.

Selensya wanted to create Utopia by brainwashing everyone.

Orzhov was like the banking system as well as a fake religion and Mafia.

Boros was the army although they had no one to fight
 
but what about the rest? I'm not even sure some of these are right. 
 
 
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The Simic were the doctors. The Dimir "didn't exist". The Gruul were supposed to protect nature, but they failed. And the Rakdos... I have no clue.
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The Dimir would be the information brokers that kept tabs on all the other guilds.

Rakdos were the ones that any guilds could hire to do some under handed dirty work that the other guilds wouldn't touch. For example, some of them were paid off by Orzhov to murder one of theirs, a girl in order to make a lot of money form the congregation.
As outlined in the guldpact:

THe Azorius made the laws.

The Dimir were tasked with destroying the guildpact.

THe Rakdos were in charge of Mining.

The Gruul were to protect the wild places of Ravnica.

The Conclave powers the guildpact.

The Orzhov are the merchants and the lawyers.

The Golgari feed the masses.

The Izzet maintain the infastructure.

The Boros are the police.

The Simic protect life (they do this by adapting it to the city).

Each guild has other things they provide, for example the Rakdos are big into assassins and slaves. But those listed above are each guild's offical role in the guldpact.

Since the guldpact is disbanded, it is likely that these have changed.
… and then, the squirrels came.
I love that the Dimir's role in the Guildpact is to destroy it. This makes no sense, but feels right in an ancient magical pact. That kind of contradiction is expected in truly ancient and epic spells.
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Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed. If Savra and the gorgons weren't totally evil they'd mostly be normal people. And now Savra's dead or whatever and some other decent lich dude is in charge. Awesome. Boros are pretty close to being "good", but they were a little extreme on occasion. I think. Most of the rest were either barbaric or outright corrupt and awful.
WHO AM I?
HARDER THAN DIAMONDS STRONGER THAN STEEL AND BURSTING WITH VIGOR. THAT'S THE WAY THE BEAST ENGINE PLAYS.
PROUD BEARER OF THE MOST INCORRECT THING JIVANMUKTA'S READ ON THESE FORUMS YET AWARD. SO BRING IT ON. ALL OF YOU. I have taken the top of the mountain and I will accept all challenges. Attack me, all at once if you must! I will never falter! THE ONLY GLORY IS IN DEATH. AND DON'T FORGET TO COWER BEFORE THE METALLIC MIGHT OF JUSTICE.
I love that the Dimir's role in the Guildpact is to destroy it. This makes no sense, but feels right in an ancient magical pact. That kind of contradiction is expected in truly ancient and epic spells.



Well every ancient pact has to have a fail safe. The Dimir's job was to bring balance.

Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed. If Savra and the gorgons weren't totally evil they'd mostly be normal people. And now Savra's dead or whatever and some other decent lich dude is in charge. Awesome. Boros are pretty close to being "good", but they were a little extreme on occasion. I think. Most of the rest were either barbaric or outright corrupt and awful.



I would say Izzet were likely among the best. If you ignore Niv's hubris, and the ocassional city block destruction from a failed experiment. They never intentionally harmed anyone that I remember (which is admitedly hazey)

The golgari were still breeding horrors and such I think. I admitedly forget the most about them.

Boros could be extreme. Seleysnea was brainwashing people. Dimir was all about secrecy and killing guild members. Azorious was sort of good, the beuracracy was oppressive. Orzhov were a fake religion, crime bosses, and corrupt bankers all at the same time. Simic (as much as I love them) were mad biological scientists with more brains than sense. Gruul were all about destruction, and pretty careless. Rakdos were crazy murderer's more or less (and unlike many on this list this was down to the lowest member not jsut the higher ups).

Now minus the Dimir, Gruul, Rakdos, Orzhov and Boros I think all the low level members weren't necessarily evil or corrupt. Simics were doctors, who may not have had any idea what momir was planning. Similar with the Golgari farmers, Conclave disciples, Izzet magewrights (again not sure Izzet really did anything too evil, though I forget what they were doing with the Dragon eggs), and Azorious lawmages. These guilds really had two different facets that I recall (some of the others may have that I forgot)
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The Gruul were a home for the disenfranchised though and not all of them were barbaric raiders and rapists.
A lot of the Gruul tribes were groupings of people who simply didn't want to be victims anymore. They moved out of the city because they city had crushed them, so they decided to drop off the grid and live simpler lives instead.
Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell.



The Golgari sacrificed children ritualistically in order to promote their crops. Sure, this pratice was ended by Jarad, but no, the Golgari are blantanly evil.



… and then, the squirrels came.
I've always felt that the only "not evil in some way" guild were the Izzet.

The guild as a whole was more interested in doing wacky science that butchering babies or what have you, and Niv is content being a big fish in a small pond.
duuuuuuuuuuuuuude whatever bro, the whole plane is a crapsack world anyway. I can't even defend my favorite guilds because I'm too ignorant. Sigh.

Oh well. If I were there I'd bring swift justice to all of them. Starting with Niv, that murderous, callous, arrogant bastard.
WHO AM I?
HARDER THAN DIAMONDS STRONGER THAN STEEL AND BURSTING WITH VIGOR. THAT'S THE WAY THE BEAST ENGINE PLAYS.
PROUD BEARER OF THE MOST INCORRECT THING JIVANMUKTA'S READ ON THESE FORUMS YET AWARD. SO BRING IT ON. ALL OF YOU. I have taken the top of the mountain and I will accept all challenges. Attack me, all at once if you must! I will never falter! THE ONLY GLORY IS IN DEATH. AND DON'T FORGET TO COWER BEFORE THE METALLIC MIGHT OF JUSTICE.
I've always felt that the only "not evil in some way" guild were the Izzet.

The guild as a whole was more interested in doing wacky science that butchering babies or what have you, and Niv is content being a big fish in a small pond.



The Izzet were mostly a danger to themselves more than anyone else.

@Beast: you better hunt down some draconic cerebral fluid and have a Big Gulp of the stuff, because that's the only way you'll get juiced enough to stand on Niv's level.
And that's providing he doesn't just outthink you into believing you're weak.
Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed. If Savra and the gorgons weren't totally evil they'd mostly be normal people.


That seems very... un-. Shouldn't they be crushing the weak or something?
I've always felt that the only "not evil in some way" guild were the Izzet.

The guild as a whole was more interested in doing wacky science that butchering babies or what have you, and Niv is content being a big fish in a small pond.



Well Niv-Mizzet did murder his entire race, enslave an entire tribe of goblins, and tried to take over Ravnica.

But overall, i agree with you. Niv is amoral, he is above morality. And so are the Izzet. They are interested in learning and experimentation, not doing right or wrong.

Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed. If Savra and the gorgons weren't totally evil they'd mostly be normal people.


That seems very... un-:gb:. Shouldn't they be crushing the weak or something?



The Golgari are forced by the guildpact to feed the masses. They don't want to do it though. In fact feeding the people hurts them greatly, since they have to turn most of the dead into food instead of into new zombies.

That's one of the brillant things about the guildpact is it keeps alot of the more dangerous guilds in check.
… and then, the squirrels came.
Well Niv-Mizzet did murder his entire race, enslave an entire tribe of goblins, and tried to take over Ravnica.

But overall, i agree with you. Niv is amoral, he is above morality. And so are the Izzet. They are interested in learning and experimentation, not doing right or wrong.



In fairness, his entire race was essentially just like him so.... might have been doing an unintentional service to the plane there.
And they breathed toxic air.
And he didn't enslave them. He bought them.
Really, who DIDN'T try to take over Ravnica?
Don't need dracoguts. Just justice. No evil can stand before True Righteousness and survive. No tricks, no bullshit, just justice. And a sword. Big one. Dragon-cutting sword. This should work.
WHO AM I?
HARDER THAN DIAMONDS STRONGER THAN STEEL AND BURSTING WITH VIGOR. THAT'S THE WAY THE BEAST ENGINE PLAYS.
PROUD BEARER OF THE MOST INCORRECT THING JIVANMUKTA'S READ ON THESE FORUMS YET AWARD. SO BRING IT ON. ALL OF YOU. I have taken the top of the mountain and I will accept all challenges. Attack me, all at once if you must! I will never falter! THE ONLY GLORY IS IN DEATH. AND DON'T FORGET TO COWER BEFORE THE METALLIC MIGHT OF JUSTICE.
Don't need dracoguts. Just justice. No evil can stand before True Righteousness and survive. No tricks, no bullshit, just justice. And a sword. Big one. Dragon-cutting sword. This should work.



Icy Manipulator + Dream Leash and Niv Mizzet thanks you for the sword. (and then we get into a contest about Erase and counterspell and we ALL LOSE.)

And really, dragons, above morality. Humanity is no more than ants to them and we consider nothing of an ant's definition of morality.

It's truthfully a tired argument that pops up any time there's a sapient dragon that isn't just one of those from Jund going RAAAAAAAWR GOBLIN TAST GUD!
Doesn't matter. If God himself is a bully, he's evil. I'll fight an evil god. I'll lose, but still. It's the principle of the thing. Nothing with a true mind is given freedom from the chains of moral duty.

We've had this argument before, haven't we. I remember because I won. Well, in my own mind I won. That's what matters.
WHO AM I?
HARDER THAN DIAMONDS STRONGER THAN STEEL AND BURSTING WITH VIGOR. THAT'S THE WAY THE BEAST ENGINE PLAYS.
PROUD BEARER OF THE MOST INCORRECT THING JIVANMUKTA'S READ ON THESE FORUMS YET AWARD. SO BRING IT ON. ALL OF YOU. I have taken the top of the mountain and I will accept all challenges. Attack me, all at once if you must! I will never falter! THE ONLY GLORY IS IN DEATH. AND DON'T FORGET TO COWER BEFORE THE METALLIC MIGHT OF JUSTICE.
The fact that Niv-Mizzet has an entirely different morality and viewpoint than we do makes him one of my favorite characters in MTG. Yes, he's arrogant, but he actually is smarter and more powerful than anyone else on the plane. If I remember correctly, he only left the battle because there were multiple Nephilim. The only other being in Ravnica that might be able to take him on in single combat is Rakdos, and he's not exactly what we'd call smart. So it makes sense for him to be arrogant, and it makes sense for his morality to be almost incomprehensible to us.

Of course, I'm also of the belief that nonhuman intelligent species should have distinctly nonhuman ways of thinking, which makes Niv-Mizzet one of the best successes of a nonhuman in MTG. The Goblins in Jund are another example, in case you were wondering.
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Doesn't matter. If God himself is a bully, he's evil. I'll fight an evil god. I'll lose, but still. It's the principle of the thing. Nothing with a true mind is given freedom from the chains of moral duty.

We've had this argument before, haven't we. I remember because I won. Well, in my own mind I won. That's what matters.



Humanity are insignificant specks and if god itself determines us under his worth and chooses to wipe us all out, there's little we can do. The issue of if this is moral or not is far above our paygrade, but I'll give you props for choosing to fight fate.

But then again, that's a fight destined to be lost as well... still, spit in the eye of god and all that.

As for "Nothing with a true mind is given freedom from the chains of moral duty" that's still too humanocentric a way of looking at things. Moral duty isn't a law of nature or instinct (which only applies to earth bound creatures), it's a social construct and one that firmly observes humanity as the only "right" in the context.
Should we ever encounter extraterrestrials or create an AI, to treat them as a human would be fantastic racism on our part.
(Of course, since all humanity are jerkasses, I could see us encountering an alien species and immediately trying to convert it to whatever the most popular religion is at the time.)
Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed. If Savra and the gorgons weren't totally evil they'd mostly be normal people.


That seems very... un-. Shouldn't they be crushing the weak or something?



Because all / characters do is being evil maniacs bent on social darwinism [/sarcasm].

Really, that is what I liked about the Golgari. Even if they had the occasional abhorent practise, they were far more decent than half of the guilds...
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That seems very... un-. Shouldn't they be crushing the weak or something?



Because all / characters do is being evil maniacs bent on social darwinism [/sarcasm].

Really, that is what I liked about the Golgari. Even if they had the occasional abhorent practise, they were far more decent than half of the guilds...


I'm not demanding that they be unsympathetic, just that their philosophy have something to do with the intersection of and . "The cycle of life and death" is a lame answer for the same reasons "we're elementalists!" would have been a lame answer for the Izzet.

(The only other guild I feel dropped the ball here is Azorius, and then not so much.)
But :G: :B: IS the cycle of life and death.  It comes back to the argument of :B: is not inherently evil.  Selfish sure, death inclusive yeah, but evil? Oppressive? Not so much.  
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is death like is fire. It's a tool and aesthetic trope. is individualism, ambition, using the best tool for the job, &c. I didn't say "evil," you did.

What and share is the convictions that competition (without any particular side being in the right) is healthy and okay, and that if something doesn't work, any system that doesn't allow it to fail is going to get dragged down itself. (They disagree over whether people have it in them to whip themselves into shape or if they're successes or failures from birth, and over whether cooperative strategies are cool or stupid.) Maybe you think this viewpoint is evil - I do - but it's also a viewpoint that lots and lots of people consider and have considered basically correct and good, and who have a coherent framework for thinking so. If moral disagreement and ambiguity among the colors means anything, it should mean that if you share a color's philosophy you should be more inclined to see it as the good guy, mapping disagreement in the game to disagreement about the game, rather than every color appearing equally sympathetic to each particular person that approaches it.

Like, based on what I've heard, I don't see the Selesnya as particularly terrible. I think if you mind-controlled everyone to be a big harmonious collective that would basically be a good thing. But I can still see how and why other people see it as evil, even if I think the reasons why are confused, and so they fulfill a " villain" role nicely, even if someone as in viewpoint as me wouldn't actually see them as villainous.
is death like is fire. It's a tool and aesthetic trope. is individualism, ambition, using the best tool for the job, &c. I didn't say "evil," you did.

What and share is the convictions that competition (without any particular side being in the right) is healthy and okay, and that if something doesn't work, any system that doesn't allow it to fail is going to get dragged down itself. (They disagree over whether people have it in them to whip themselves into shape or if they're successes or failures from birth, and over whether cooperative strategies are cool or stupid.) Maybe you think this viewpoint is evil - I do - but it's also a viewpoint that lots and lots of people consider and have considered basically correct and good, and who have a coherent framework for thinking so. If moral disagreement and ambiguity among the colors means anything, it should mean that if you share a color's philosophy you should be more inclined to see it as the good guy, mapping disagreement in the game to disagreement about the game, rather than every color appearing equally sympathetic to each particular person that approaches it.

Like, based on what I've heard, I don't see the Selesnya as particularly terrible. I think if you mind-controlled everyone to be a big harmonious collective that would basically be a good thing. But I can still see how and why other people see it as evil, even if I think the reasons why are confused, and so they fulfill a " villain" role nicely, even if someone as in viewpoint as me wouldn't actually see them as villainous.



That is one area they over lap. So is the concept of life and death. Both have an investment in both sides, even if they favor one over the other usually. Green appreciates that things have to die for others to live. It grows new things out of nutrients of dead things. Black raises the dead, giving it a sort of new life. It will kill so it can live. 

There is more than one wat colors intereact. Just like each color is multifaceted, so is each color pair/triad/quadrad. Golgari is one way those two colors over lap. Yours is another. As Shamshiel's signature says " does not equal rakdos" 
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is death like is fire. It's a tool and aesthetic trope. is individualism, ambition, using the best tool for the job, &c. I didn't say "evil," you did.

What and share is the convictions that competition (without any particular side being in the right) is healthy and okay, and that if something doesn't work, any system that doesn't allow it to fail is going to get dragged down itself. (They disagree over whether people have it in them to whip themselves into shape or if they're successes or failures from birth, and over whether cooperative strategies are cool or stupid.) Maybe you think this viewpoint is evil - I do - but it's also a viewpoint that lots and lots of people consider and have considered basically correct and good, and who have a coherent framework for thinking so. If moral disagreement and ambiguity among the colors means anything, it should mean that if you share a color's philosophy you should be more inclined to see it as the good guy, mapping disagreement in the game to disagreement about the game, rather than every color appearing equally sympathetic to each particular person that approaches it.

Like, based on what I've heard, I don't see the Selesnya as particularly terrible. I think if you mind-controlled everyone to be a big harmonious collective that would basically be a good thing. But I can still see how and why other people see it as evil, even if I think the reasons why are confused, and so they fulfill a " villain" role nicely, even if someone as in viewpoint as me wouldn't actually see them as villainous.



I used the point of death because that is the point in question, :B: relation to death.  And :B: has both sides of death covered.  It is the best colour for outright killing something and it likes bringing things back afterwards, if different.

And evil? Well talking about crushing the weak just sounds evil in general
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I've thought of social darwinism in a more morally ambiguous light, but it's in a more // way than /.

There are tons of values and share other than that anyways. Both colours have a healthy respect for darkness, for colours tend towards neutrality, et cetera.
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Isn't the Rakdos supposed to control the entertainment in the city?  You know, like in real life, how we watch concerts, sports, and stuff like Wrestling?  Also aren't they analogous to the real life casinos and strip clubs?
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Isn't the Rakdos supposed to control the entertainment in the city?  You know, like in real life, how we watch concerts, sports, and stuff like Wrestling?  Also aren't they analogous to the real life casinos and strip clubs?


That would be one way of interpreting that color combination. Rakdos is another. Although, for the right crowd they're pretty entertaining.

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Isn't the Rakdos supposed to control the entertainment in the city?  You know, like in real life, how we watch concerts, sports, and stuff like Wrestling?  Also aren't they analogous to the real life casinos and strip clubs?



You are mixing up participant and owner. The Orzhov control most entertainment in Ravnica, though they probably use Rakdos alot (See Pivlic's bar with an arena in the middle).

A Rakdos bar would burn down inside ten minutes and kill everything in a five mile radius. (much like an Izzet bar would i guess).
… and then, the squirrels came.
Golgari for prez. Seriously, they were probably the least evil of the guilds as far as I can tell. They just farmed and waste-managed.


And released the occasional killer plague.

The Golgari preach that death is part of the natural cycle, which seems like a harmless and logical belief. However, they take it one step further, actually embracing death, and encouraging it to enhance and strengthen life. So their guildmaster, the elvish shaman Savra, doesn't mind letting loose virulent plagues. After all, all they're doing is speeding up the natural cycle so that Ravnica can be reborn after death into something better. It's not so much death itself that they like, but the rebuilding that comes afterwards.

Overall, all Guilds do have one thing in common. That is to push around, abuse, and take adavantage of non-guild citizens. They're nothing more than collateral damage in some instant.
I'm just really curious as to what Dimir is going to be doing now.  I mean their role is literally nonexistant anymore.

Same with Seleysnia actually 
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I'm just really curious as to what Dimir is going to be doing now.  I mean their role is literally nonexistant anymore.

Same with Seleysnia actually 



Well without the guildpact, there's nothing forcing the guilds to do anything (except maybe some written agreements, but that's not really that powerful).

I imagine they are going to drop the whole "guild roles" thing and instead focus on the guilds dominating certain markets (like i imagine the Golgari will still produce food, but will sell it instead of giving it away).
… and then, the squirrels came.
I suppose they could move into selling information and maybe compete with Rakdos in the assassination markets.
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