[SNEAK PEEK] Feedback — Game Play (Solitare, Duels & Multiplayer)

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Please use this thread for feedback on gameplay, whether it be solitare, duels or multiplayer.

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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
Hello, I'd like to make some suggestions that would save alot of time (and occasionally frustration) for your users. Keep in mind that all of my suggestions are OPTIONAL and it's up to the user whether they want to use these features or not.

1: When card effects are listed in the box before being put onto the stack, there should be a button or hotkey that makes it put the rest of the effects on the stack in a random order. F7 is nice, but it doesn't work when you have a bunch of different effects going off at once. It's very tedious to repeatedly click cards like that before they're put onto the stack; especially when you don't even care what order they go in.
A good example of what I'm getting at is when you're playing a white weenie lifegain deck and you have Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant, Ajani's Pridemate, & Suture Priests' abilities popping off every time a creature hits the battlefield.

2: Effects that make you put a number of cards on the top/bottom of your library should also have a button/hotkey that places them randomly, so that if I don't care about the order, I don't have to repeatedly click each card.
Some good examples of this would be Cream of the Crop whenever you cast a powerful creature. Teferi's Puzzle Box, & Abundance

3: Effect's like Cabal Therapy that make you choose one card out of all the cards in MTG should have a search bar that pops up in the same window. As you type in the search bar, it selects the card that is most relevant to what you typed. For example: typing "Par" should remove every other card from the list except for cards that begin with the letters you typed; like "Pariah".
Preferably the search would update itself in real time as you typed each letter, kind of like the Gatherer's search function, although I wouldn't mind if I had to type out what I wanted before manually hitting the "search" button, as the time saved would still be mind blowing.

4. Add an "Attack with all creatures" command. The easiest way I can see this being done is to have a right click menu on each target that is attackable (planeswalker/players) and have one of the options be to send all of your creatures to that one target.

5. Add a command which automatically selects all legal targets for you whenever you use a spell/ability that can select multiple targets.
Genesis Wave is a good example.

6. When paying for X cost spells or abilities, there should be a right click menu on the mana symbols that lets you select different increments depending on how much mana you want to put into the X spell, such as 5, 10, 15, 25, and "all mana".


3: Effect's like Cabal Therapy that make you choose one card out of all the cards in magic should have a search bar that pops up in the same window. As you type in the search bar, it selects the card that is most relevant to what you typed. For example: typing "Par" should remove every other card from the list except for cards that begin with the letters you typed; like "Pariah".
Preferably the search would update itself in real time as you typed each letter, kind of like the Gatherer's search function, although I wouldn't mind if I had to type out what I wanted before manually hitting the "search" button, as the time saved would still be mind blowing.



Of these, this last seems like the biggest deal to me.  Although there aren't that many cards that make you do this, as someone who uses Sphinx Ambassador quite a bit, I know how annoying it can be.
So far I have played 1 commander game. In that game, several effects changed a cards' controller (Acquire, Gather Specimens, Corrupted Conscience, Roil Elemental). Functionally, there was no problem but visually the cards remained on the battlefield on the owner's side instead of on the (new) controller's side.

Also, it was very confusing to me that Commanders in the Command Zone are in the middle of the battlefield, just like they would be if they were actually on the battlefield. However, this maybe optional - I haven't tried to change it yet. 
My first 2hg has just finished. The following things were 'less than optimal':

1) cards do not automatically resize, but rather everything becomes scrollable. Very annoying. There is no setting anywhere to affect this.
2) I can open my teammates hand at the bottom and his floating hand STILL remains visible with no way to close it.
3) Not sure if this is a bug: F8 appears to have no effect. Selecting "no possible play: yield all" (only possible if you actually have no plays) works, however only for exactly one turn.

No idea where to put this:

While typing these posts I the client popped to the front at odd intervals (presumably whenever the screen changed).
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A few quick-hits after about 2+ hours of playing:

- Not a fan of the little swirly thing denoting summoning-sickness...I much preferrred the p/t turning yellow...it's much easier to see.

- The highlighting of the board denoting who's turn it is should be a little more obvious. You shouldn't have to focus on the board so hard to see this.

- The horizontal phase bar should also show more clearly what part of the turn you're in. Having the current phase 'go black' does not make it easy to see at a glance.

- The card and window movement is a bit herky-jerky. Would like to see a smoother and more clean movement.

- Having a new game open in a new window is cool idea, but having it start partially minimized is a pain. Also would like to be able to save the board set-up and chat window location, rather than having to move everything around every time.

- The new targeting system is interesting, but still difficult to see upon initial action. The spell or ability targeting a creature/player should be easier to see when the target has been selected.

- The Life, Hand, Deck and Graveyard icons are a bit too small and much harder to see than V3. Adding about 50% to 100% more size would improve this.

- Would also like to see the Graveyard become a detachable window like V3. The resizing of the GY is nice, but sometimes you need the cards to be more 'available' to the eye.

"We wlll kill them all."

I feel it would be much better if it didn't show the card's text when you right-clicked on it, bringing up the context menu. It makes using abilities and casting for alternative costs slower, especially when a card has multiple abilities or alternative casting costs, were you have to look through the big context menu that pops up when you right click. This change seems completely unnecessary, it was fine in V3.

Other than that, remembering window positions, detachable graveyard, and a bigger life total would be nice.
Everything just feels so clunky in this version as opposed to v3. As much as I'd like to love it, its quite disorienting, and actually looks worse then v3. In addition, the summoning sickness animations are disorienting, even when they're not on. It feels like they tried to make it as close to Duels of the Planeswalkers without offering that product.
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Some differences I noticed comparing watch game views:
a) in beta you can't watch a game directly from the room, it takes 1 more keypress to view details first. More keypresses are not desireable. 
b) avatar art treatments differ, BoP are the same, Riku different (head only or head plus torso). No preference, but does that mean avatar arts have been re-done just for beta?
c) duel backgrounds differ, e.g. green cloth in v3 becomes a brown texture in beta.
d) poison counters in beta are next to the player avatar, I prefer how they're on the avatar in v3.
e) The duel chat window in v3 includes the names of watchers, unlike v4. Seems like a privacy violation to hide watcher names.
f) On the whole replacing the step and phase icons with text seems like an improvement, however it takes up a lot more screen space. You could do this like a mac taskbar with miniaturised names and only the current/highlighted step or phase zoomed to full size.
g) the duel scene colours overuse brown shades (it's a bit like an episode of murder she wrote, all rather 1970's).
g) the duel scene colours overuse brown shades (it's a bit like an episode of murder she wrote, all rather 1970's).


Change your theme. Account => Display & Sound Settings => Edit Theme. I like Sorin; it's mostly black/red (though still some brown).

Magic and Magic Online Volunteer Community Lead.

I'm trying to make my official VCL posts in purple.

You posted saying my thread was moved/locked but nothing happened.


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Unfortunately, VCLs do not currently have the tools necessary to take moderation actions directly. VCLs submit their actions to ORCs, who then actually perform the action. This processing can take between a few minutes and several hours, depending on how busy/attentive the ORCs are.

If you see something that needs VCL attention, please use this thread to make a request and a VCL will look at it as soon as possible. CoC violations should be reported to Customer Service using the "report post" button. Please do not disrupt the thread by making requests of either kind in-thread.

General MTGO FAQ

Yes, the Shuffler is Random!
The definitive thread on the Magic Online shuffler.

Magic Math Made Easy
Draw probabilities, Swiss results, Elo ratings and booster EV

Event EV Calculator
Calculate the EV for any event with a fixed number of rounds and prizes based on record

Dual means two. A duel is a battle between two people. Lands that make two colors of mana are dual lands. A normal Magic battle is a duel.
Thanks to PhoenixLAU for the [thread=1097559]awesome avatar[/thread]!
Quotables

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"While a picture is worth a thousand words, each lolcat actually produces a negative wordcount." -Ith "I think "Highly Informed Sarcasm" should be our Magic Online General motto." -Ith "Sorry, but this thread seems just like spam. TT is for off-topic discussion, not no-topic discussion." -WizO_Kwai_Chang "Stop that! If you're not careful, rational thinking may catch on!" -Sax "... the only word i see that fits is incompitant." -Mr44 (sic) "You know a thread is gonna be locked when it gets to the hexadecimal stage." -Gathion "It's a good gig" - Gleemax "I tell people often, if you guys want to rant, you've certainly got the right to (provided you obey CoC/ToS stuff), and I don't even really blame you. But if you see something you think needs changing a well thought-out, constructive post does more to make that happen." - Worth Wollpert
I could never leave my beloved Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
g) the duel scene colours overuse brown shades (it's a bit like an episode of murder she wrote, all rather 1970's).


Change your theme. Account => Display & Sound Settings => Edit Theme. I like Sorin; it's mostly black/red (though still some brown).



Oh sure, I was using the default theme of (insert name of pointy dragon planeswalker here).
I'm not a great one for customising anything on windows, I generally find that doing that just slows your windows down sooner than normal.
My issues stem largely from multiplayer.

1. Commanders do not get their own zone. Instead, the commander is plopped down right on the battlefield, and doesn't even move when you "cast" it, thus requiring some "skill" to determine what is happening without reading the chat lot (which you may not have active or open). This is on top of the fact that you have a hidable side-panel that contains "zones" for play: Graveyard, Planes/Phenomena (which are technically in the "Command" zone), Exile, and bizarrely, "Revealed" etc.

2. The "Revealed" Zone is even more annoying when whenever a player reveals a card, a notice pops up on the screen not showing you the card, but showing you that a card has moved "to the revealed zone." Here's a problem, and it's intuitive: Revealing a card doesn't involve a zone; instead, a card moves noticeably from one zone to the other, and doesn't make a pit stop.

3. You STILL cannot attack a 2HG team equally: you can only attack the player opposite you, and likewise that player's teammate still cannot block for you. I haven't tested how unequal "deaths" occur, such as milling or poison, where a player who "loses" the game still allows his/her teammate to keep playing.

4. Extra clicks are required to move through the game interface than in V3, especially if you want to watch a game. Unlike in V3, the interface only tells you who STARTS a game, and I have to click through the interface to find whoever else is playing; this wastes my time if I do not want to play with the jerkass XXX or whatever, and he's there.

5. Speaking of game selection: Whenever you are revising the active games of preference, the ENTIRE field is "rolled up" then relayed back onto the screen. In V3, the games you did not want where just removed, or added back in, as if all that was required was filtering out a constantly active field. It seems the BETA is trying to actively find games that match the applicability of your options, and must reload the screen to do so. Not only is this tedious, I am sure it takes MORE active memory than v3 does (correct me if I am wrong).
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
I played a game of multiplayer commander and like someone else said, the commanders were on the board, so it was difficult to tell if they were in play or not. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional.
I really liked that I could minimize each opponent if I wanted because having each one open made each board far too small and hard to follow, especially in complicated games of commander. I think it would be interesting if their was an option that allowed the active player to auotmaticaly maximize and minimized the other players. That would alleviate me having to do that myself.
I played a 4-player game of planechase.  It was very annoying seeing cards that I own, but don't control in my play area.  Same goes for when an opponent enchanted something of mine with an aura, the aura was in their play area instead of mine and I had to put the arrow over the aura to see what it was enchanting instead of just seeing it attached to its target.  Also, whenever a plane came up that made all players play with the top card of their library revealed, having the 4 boxes take up the entire screen wasn't amusing.  I could shrink the boxes, but I couldn't detach them from one another to drag them to their respective players' area of the table.  Wherever I dragged one box, the other 3 came with it.
1. If a player has left the game in a multiplayer game, and is next in turn order as you end your turn, if you collapsed his field, the client will open the field up again. Repeat everytime that player MIGHT get a turn. If you collapse a field, or collapse a sideboard, it should remain collapsed until you need to see it again.

2. Attacking multiple players in Commander: Read your chat log to see who's getting attacked by what. I would reassert the arrows, at the least.

3. As you declare attackers, depending on the order of what the creatures are in on the field, as you declare them they will reorganize on the "red zone" stripe depending on their original order, meaning they are constantly shuffling back and forth to to reassert original un-attacking relationship. This can seriously get hideously complicated with objects constantly moving around while making attack/block decisions. I would suggest maintaining the arrows of attacking what and blocking what, as this seems more elegant than the current Beta.
"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
2. Attacking multiple players in Commander: Read your chat log to see who's getting attacked by what. I would reassert the arrows, at the least.



If you mouse over an attacking creature the attacked player with be  marked with 4 red arrows on the avatar picture.
I've assumed that actual bugs don't go here but in the bug thread and feedback about technically correct but functionally undesirable things goes here.

However, I'm interested to know if anyone else encountered this particular bug:

In my 2hg the play order was bottom-left, bottom-right, top-left, top-right. I had started the game, yet I was sitting to my p's left.

At this point 2hg is really only playable in the old client. I'll make an effort to play several more games in the beta sneak peek, but it truly is an effort to do so...
Free Speech
Free speech is the right to speak your mind without government censorship and without fear of extralegal retaliation like harassment or violence. That’s all! Free speech doesn’t include the right to speak your mind on any forum anywhere. The government may not prevent you from speaking, but private parties, like blog owners or corporations, aren’t required to let you use their property as your platform. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be believed or to be taken seriously. People may mock, ridicule or laugh at what you say, or they may reject it outright. Free speech doesn’t include the right to be listened to. People who don’t desire to hear your opinion can hang up on you, block you on social media, change the channel, close the browser tab. Free speech doesn’t give you the right to bombard people with harassing messages or otherwise force them to pay attention to you against their will. And free speech doesn’t include the right to suffer no consequences whatsoever for your expressed opinions.
Im not sure If Im in the correct thread.

But when playing a long match, Im using esper control. There are quite a few lands. I was forced to scroll back and forth using the left and right arrows to see the board and use lands. I know the old client auto zoomed out to fit all permanents in one screen.

I could not see which lands were tapped or what lands I had on board without shifting the game area left and right with the arrow.

They really need this feature. It is very tedious and time consuming to shift left and right. My turns were taking twice as long.

Unless theres an auto zoom out for permanents option I am missing.

Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?

I am in the minority(?) who likes the summoning-sickness whirls. It's a lot more visually striking than yellow numbers.

But I miss the arrows to show what's being targeted. The four arrows in the box is too subtle for me at this point.

I do, however, absolutely love the reminder "you've got priority" box. Especially the fact that I can see it even if I've minimized the client.
The command: /eject player does not work for me.


I was forced to scroll back and forth using the left and right arrows to see the board and use lands. I know the old client auto zoomed out to fit all permanents in one screen.

I could not see which lands were tapped or what lands I had on board without shifting the game area left and right with the arrow.

They really need this feature. It is very tedious and time consuming to shift left and right. My turns were taking twice as long.




This is important because players will build competetive decks to exploit this interface feature.

Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?


Hate it. The beta uses excessive distracting movement of objects.


I was forced to scroll back and forth using the left and right arrows to see the board and use lands. I know the old client auto zoomed out to fit all permanents in one screen.

I could not see which lands were tapped or what lands I had on board without shifting the game area left and right with the arrow.

They really need this feature. It is very tedious and time consuming to shift left and right. My turns were taking twice as long.




This is important because players will build competetive decks to exploit this interface feature.




This actually worries me. Any interface that messes with the metagame is automatically a bad interface. 

Which is a shame, because I was starting to like the new UI after a few games.  
Game feels less fluid than before.  I feel like I'm having to spend more time figuring out what phase I'm in and when I can actually do something.  Like I go into combat phase and I want to click my cards and nothing happens.  It's asking me to do something.. then after I click attack and before the block phase it asks me to play instants.. This screwed me up several times because I thought the block phase had already been done.. Of course if I just looked down I'd have realized this is not the case heh.  Though I'm not totally sure but it seems like it asks you to play instants before and after you choose attackers.. I guess because it's giving the other player those chances and you have to be able to counter..

It's hard to follow and I guess I need to play around with it some more.  Keeping in mind I'm a new player but v3 just feels so much more fluid.  I spend more time thinking about my game than about when it's going to ask me a question.

I'm sure its customiseable I just need to play with it more. 

Also this is totally nitpicky and stupid but I miss the ability to drag the card to the table.  Just a level of immersion that you lose having to just click the card onto the board. 

Cards in general are given too much horizontal space, they should instead (as in V3) start a new row when they reach the border. This will help smooth out gameplay considerably. I also prefer the way land stacks in V3, since that doesn't eat up horizontal space.


This includes creatures attacking.


The Phase/Step bar eats up unnecessary vertical space. It's also freakishly huge (both horizontally and vertically) compared to the information it relays, I feel it would fit better as a smaller vertical bar in the Hand area.


My overall first impression is that the skin takes up more visual space than the information it is supposed to relay. Also, List View not being implemented yet is in the Not Good category.

Like some have said, I will need to play and experiment more, but initial thoughts (please pm me if there's a setting or something I'm missing!!):

- all the cards on the battlefield were too small to read, so I had to zoom in on each one, which was time consuming (I was playing Momir, so lots of unfamiliar cards). I thought you were supposed to be able to resize at will, but I couldn't see any slider in game.

- the constant moving of cards was a little annoying and jerky. In particular when trying to tap a bunch of land, I found the after tapping the first land, all the others shifted, so that I missed the second land, and had to re-adjust where I clicked after tapping each land.

- I couldn't find a way to fix the chat log/game log to the back screen. I thought someone had said it could be docked in one place, but I ended up have to resize/move it while playing the game, which took extra time.

- In the settings, on the screen where it shows you the stops (F2, F7 etc), I couldn't get to the bottom of the list. After F7, I could highlight the top of the next item, but not click it or change it. I assume it was the old F8, but there was no scroll bar to be able to see it properly.

- There were "details" buttons in a couple of places (I think one was when I set up a game table) that didn't appear to do anything, or show any information.

- Overall the game play seemed ok, but it will take a while to get used to the new system (especially priority passes etc).

Hope the feedback all gets read, and considered!
Game feels less fluid than before.  I feel like I'm having to spend more time figuring out what phase I'm in and when I can actually do something.  Like I go into combat phase and I want to click my cards and nothing happens.  It's asking me to do something.. then after I click attack and before the block phase it asks me to play instants.. This screwed me up several times because I thought the block phase had already been done.. Of course if I just looked down I'd have realized this is not the case heh.  Though I'm not totally sure but it seems like it asks you to play instants before and after you choose attackers.. I guess because it's giving the other player those chances and you have to be able to counter..



Unless you'd turned those steps off in V3 or something, from what I'm reading you say here that's actually "correct." You can take those stops out if you like, though that will prevent you from being able to respond when you could.

I think in the beta you do it by clicking on those little arrows above and below each step on the Phase/Step bar.
Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?

I am in the minority(?) who likes the summoning-sickness whirls. It's a lot more visually striking than yellow numbers.

But I miss the arrows to show what's being targeted. The four arrows in the box is too subtle for me at this point.

I do, however, absolutely love the reminder "you've got priority" box. Especially the fact that I can see it even if I've minimized the client.

I found the resizing to accomodate the "red zone" to be incredibly annoying.  The current system with the arrows seems vastly superior. 

The play space has already been vertically squeezed to the point that cards are a lot less visible.  The red zone appearance is visually jarring and squeezes the cards even further. 

Too much space seems to be devoted to large fonts and thick borders.  There are too many different boxes and graphics popping up. 

The ways that cards get highlighted for various effects detracts from the cards.

I don't really mind the swirly things for summoning sickness though I think the yellow did a better job of highlighting.   

On the whole, the thing is very blocky and does not have the feel of a game of Magic, rather some clunky digital creation with very small images of Magic cards.  The cards should be front and center.  Everything else is peripheral.  The current system does a good job of that.

Admittedly, they could do a better job of coordinating with Duels of the Planeswalkers.  I actually came back to Magic after having not played for some years via that route courtesy of X-Box 360.   Figuring out how to use Magic Online was really very frustrating because there were really no walk-throughs or clear instructions for beginners.  They should probably send a pdf instruction guide and link to a video when new people sign up. If I hadn't been very determined, I would likely have given up.  I am not sure that anything they have done actually improves that.  Rather, it seems like they have taken the worst of Duels of the Planeswalkers and combined it with the worst of Magic Online. 


  


I was forced to scroll back and forth using the left and right arrows to see the board and use lands. I know the old client auto zoomed out to fit all permanents in one screen.

I could not see which lands were tapped or what lands I had on board without shifting the game area left and right with the arrow.

They really need this feature. It is very tedious and time consuming to shift left and right. My turns were taking twice as long.




This is important because players will build competetive decks to exploit this interface feature.




While overall i like most of the duel scene and find it effective (after a good bit of getting used to it in the beta, anyways), this is the one big remaining issue for me.  It is super-annoying to have to scroll left or right to see and use additional lands.  There has to be a way to scale the lands to fit them all on screen.  (Not to mention that the scrolling method of hitting the little arrows is itself very painful)  I can only imagine how horrible this must be for players with smaller monitors, with as bad as it is on my 1920x1080.

A few other items:

The bottom left box with the prompts and buttons:  Still not sure if contents are intended to scale with larger monitors, but as-is on every screen i own (up to 1920x1080), the text and symbols here are way too small and hard to read.   I can think of no reason not to add some sort of dynamic scaling here to allow for use of available space.

Please consider starting the duel window maximized.  I suspect that nearly 100% of players play full-screen, or at least a large enough majority make maximized the default.  

I also think the chat window that pops when duel begins should be docked on the right side by default, but this may be personal preference.  At the very least, please consider adding a setting or remember where the user put it last time, and have it pop in the same location, especially if it was docked.


I was forced to scroll back and forth using the left and right arrows to see the board and use lands. I know the old client auto zoomed out to fit all permanents in one screen.

I could not see which lands were tapped or what lands I had on board without shifting the game area left and right with the arrow.

They really need this feature. It is very tedious and time consuming to shift left and right. My turns were taking twice as long.




This is important because players will build competetive decks to exploit this interface feature.




Those ppl will be put on a list so that we can beat them up when we get around to it.
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Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?


Hate it. The beta uses excessive distracting movement of objects.


In every Beta survey I've commented on I've made it a point to bring up the Red Zone and how bad of an idea it is. watching several streams yesterday, I didn't hear a single good comment about it, either. Please get rid of it. It's an annoying feature that we don't actually need.

Failing the total elimination of it, there is a potential compromise: don't pop up the red zone every turn, pop it only when a creture is declared as an attacking creature. And don't scale the cards when you do pop it into the battlefield.

IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/50738226/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
Why does a constructed match during sideboarding need a panel that takes up 10% of the screen for "Add Land to Deck"?  This should not show up during constructed matches.

The prompt needs to be visible. Currently it blends too well with the rest of the layout and you cannot see changes easily.

Selecting multiple objects (say, right-click drag a square to highlight 3 lands) then give a common task (tap for mana, attack player/PWer) should be included to make game-play smoother and faster.
Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?


Hate it. The beta uses excessive distracting movement of objects.


In every Beta survey I've commented on I've made it a point to bring up the Red Zone and how bad of an idea it is. watching several streams yesterday, I didn't hear a single good comment about it, either. Please get rid of it. It's an annoying feature that we don't actually need.

Failing the total elimination of it, there is a potential compromise: don't pop up the red zone every turn, pop it only when a creture is declared as an attacking creature. And don't scale the cards when you do pop it into the battlefield.


Thinking aloud: Perhaps a small red line could appear between the two players' areas, small enough to not shift anything, as a visual reminder there's combat going on?

No, that wouldn't work, because of the way the critters move up. I don't know.

I like the idea of some kind of combat-going-on cue, but there's nothing I can think of that isn't obtrusive and stupid.
Is anyone else torn about the red zone?

I don't know what I think of it. On the one hand, I do think the strip is a handy visual reminder. But I also find the whole sudden shifting of the play field visually jarring and jumpy and eyestrain-inducing, especially since it means the whole visual field alters itself every turn.

I don't know what a good fix for this would be. I was thinking perhaps the red strip should be there all the time and the attackers and blockers should just move into it, but then I realized that means leaving a wide strip of vertical space empty when there's no combat going on. That seems suboptimal.

Which leaves me wanting to recommend attackers and blockers moving up as they do now, but no red strip appearing every combat. And I do like the idea of it, so I'm reluctant to say that too.

Maybe change the way it's animated to appear so it feels less "chunky" about all the shifting?


Hate it. The beta uses excessive distracting movement of objects.


In every Beta survey I've commented on I've made it a point to bring up the Red Zone and how bad of an idea it is. watching several streams yesterday, I didn't hear a single good comment about it, either. Please get rid of it. It's an annoying feature that we don't actually need.

Failing the total elimination of it, there is a potential compromise: don't pop up the red zone every turn, pop it only when a creture is declared as an attacking creature. And don't scale the cards when you do pop it into the battlefield.


Thinking aloud: Perhaps a small red line could appear between the two players' areas, small enough to not shift anything, as a visual reminder there's combat going on?

No, that wouldn't work, because of the way the critters move up. I don't know.

I like the idea of some kind of combat-going-on cue, but there's nothing I can think of that isn't obtrusive and stupid.


The cue that I relied on before were the sounds involved with changing phases/steps. We don't have those anymore and that's terribly annoying to me.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/50738226/Scorecards/Landscape.png)

Here is my list of critiques of v4. I'll try to give short explanations of what I mean for each topic.


Partner's hand is linked to your library window.  Which means the first time I put my partner's hand away in the corner and then popped a fetch land, I thought the game was broken.  No library to be found, until I moved my partner's hand up as far as it would go, so I could see the bottom of my library window.  I can't fathom why these two windows would be linked.


Speaking of your partner's hand window, it is gigantic.  Significantly larger than it should be with tons of empty space around the cards.  I want a tight window to minimize real estate, especially since you don't allow that window to leave the client.  You are also unable to close or minimize it; possible because it is linked to the library window.  However, the real question is why that window even exists since you provide a pop-out window that shows his hand (at least it does sometimes) and fits nicely on the bottom of the screen.  When working properly, it is a very nice feature.  The humungous window for the partner's hand is just annoying and a hassle.


For the most part, your design team changed all the directions in the game.  Windows that used to scroll up and down now go left to right and left to right windows now go up and down.  I don't just oppose this because I hate needless change; it's a poor decision from a design standpoint as well.  When searching the library left to right the cards don't stack as well and it makes it more difficult to find what I'm looking for.  In the collection, one of the best reasons for pages in an album is because it saved on load time.  I dislike looking at blank cards with text written on them because I scrolled down to fast.  And I have an i5 with 6gigs of ram and a 3d capable 1gig video card (which blows the requirements out of the water).  I also have nearly 11k cards (which is a lot to load), but it defeats the purpose of having new, prettier layouts if I can't see my cards.  Also, you need to have a spreadsheet view for deck building.  Deck building without it takes a lot longer as you can not sort cards and find different versions (sometimes I like alternate art or I could only find foils from different sets) as quickly when looking at individual card pictures. I realize you set a lot of the spreadsheet columns as filters now, but often I just want them listed from smallest to largest or vice versus. 


Speaking of filters; you still don't allow multiple typed strings when searching for cards.  I'd like to be able to type “soldiers” and then type “comes into play” or the tap symbol and get a list of soldiers who do something when they come into play or tap.  Ideally, I would be able to do this as many times as I wanted by just keeping a box checked for “search within this subset” or something.  I just realized not play, battlefield, yada-yada, I'm sure I'll mess it up again.


Fetch lands no longer sort lands to the end of the library window in alphabetical order.  This makes your terrible window that much more difficult to navigate since I can't see my entire library at the same time – which makes it hard to know at a glance how many of each land type I have left, which can be important in some late game situations.


Window sizes can not be changed enough. They need to be able to get really, really small.  Also, please eliminate all the dead space in the windows.  Small, tight windows are the best windows.  Especially if they can be easily resized (as opposed to only being pullable from one corner).


I think I already touched on this earlier, but it would be nice if all windows could be removed from the main client rather than just the dock.


Speaking of the dock; it no longer “docks”.  Instead it overwrites part of the screen.  It needs to resize the screen to fit.  I don't like the dock, but I don't have dual monitors set up right now and I dislike a dock that doesn't dock properly even more.


The dock does not dock at the bottom of the screen.  You have done a pretty good job giving more horizontal space to the board, which means it would be even less painful than in v3 to have the chat docked at the bottom of the screen.  Technically you can do this by resizing the client and moving the dock below, but it has that extra window stuff at the top which seriously impacts game space.  I would love for the dock to be able to dock at the bottom of the screen, showing 4-5 lines of chat, with a small, scrollable window at the far right, that showed who was in the room and not taking up tons of space.  And, if it docked at the bottom, maybe it could easily pop out (up) like your partner's hand.


F shortcut keys don't work while you are in chat.  This makes talking that much more difficult to do and destroys just a little more the community feel of this game.


Games start automatically - which bites in 2hg if 2 random people join seconds before your partner.  Once the timer starts you can't switch seating.  And if three randoms join then you don't even get to play with your friend at all!


Also, one time a few minutes after leaving a game that had 4 people sitting at it for a min or two (I was not the only one to leave) the game started and pulled me and the other person back into it.


2hg games no longer go in a clockwise rotation around the table but instead follow a weird zig-zag pattern (this might depend on seating, I always sat to the right).  Most likely this is due to how players are visually seated at the table. I believe my partner was visible to my right, even though he should have been above or to my left. 
Honestly, just go back to v2 seating for 2hg, 2v2, 3hg, 3v3, and emp play - namely, if you sat on the right, then you were on the right at the table.  Don't artificially put me in the bottom right corner with a now warped looking table that has caused more than one person to mistakenly attack his partner. 


The search function for games is nice; but does it automatically screen out games started by people I have blocked or have me blocked?  It would be nice if it did.


Your game did not remember decks i had imported from v3 between sessions.  It remembered some decks, but not all of them.  Also, it did not seamlessly import decks from collection screen to the play screen within the same session.


It would be nice to be able to pull decks up the old way.  I like how you tried to set up a file folder system within the game, but honestly, I already have a complex file system so I can easily find my decks and would rather not have to recreate it.  Additionally, I would rather set a new one up (if I had to) within windows explorer as it's faster to travel levels and create new folders - to say nothing of the fact that I could most likely copy/paste my existing framework and deck files.  Ideally, you would allow the section of your game that shows folder to pull up that windows explorer framework along with my decks without having me recreate it within game and then populate the folder system with decks.


You can't resize your hand very effectively; it puts card bottoms below the "wizards, hasbro alpha" banner thingy if you try to make it smaller.


The window with the ok button can not be resized and seems like a lot of wasted real estate.  Would much rather have that space for my hand.


The stack is weird and obscures the board in multiplayer games.  I realize this might be okay once I get used to it, but it makes an otherwise nice looking interface seem very cluttered/dirty.


While I realize you guys like the "red zone" idea, constant resizing (between that and laying cards, or tapping cards, or w/e) is visually fatiguing.  It would be nice if the red zone didn't come up when the player has no attackers - shouldn't be too hard to run a quick check, and then it can come into being should he cast one with flash after the combat phase has started.  Additionally, it would be nice if it resized a little less in general.  I'd rather the client started a little smaller since it is reasonable to assume most people will play more than just 2 to 4 permanents.

Things that bug me about Game Play:

1) The client does not remember your Game Play settings between logons. Every time I log on, I have to recheck all those boxes to start a game. 

I do not wish to participate in this Community Site.

Things that bug me about Game Play:

1) The client does not remember your Game Play settings between logons. Every time I log on, I have to recheck all those boxes to start a game. 


Does it remember the "recently played" drop down options? Because those serve their purpose fine for playing repeat games in only a few different formats. (of course it is still fixing an issue that didn't used to be there.)
I can no longer play 2HG on MTGO. The problems that are present in the game are just too numerous. The Beta for V4 tells me there are no attempts to resolve these issues:

1. Construction.

1A. When two players join as a team, their decks cannot have more than four cards of the same name that aren't Basic or Relentless Rats in them. I understand the issues associated with this in regards to MTGO in general, such as confirmation of decks' legality: this is simply overlooked when it comes to 2HG.

2. Confirmation.

2A. When the table fills up, if your partner has not joined you fast enough, you need to reassert placement, often by asking someone to leave, then have that person rejoin once your partner is "seated" next to you. You cannot "join" as a team. Doing so, for at least the forming player, would make this process easier; as well as allowing other entrants to join: If they are NOT on a team with the originating player, they would simply be seated in the two "empties" across from him, leaving only a gap for the originating player's partner.

3. Game Structure

3A. Players do not take simultaneous turns. That is, they do not share their untap, upkeep, draw, main, combat, and end phases. Instead, each player has to take an individual turn. This leads to further problems.

3B. Losing the game is supposed to happen simultaneously for either side of a game: If one player has "lethal" poison, attempts to draw from an empty library without any given "safeguard" in play (or if his partner has the safeguard, but he does not), or an effect causes that player to "lose the game," this does not cause the unaffected player to also lose, nor does it cause the team to lose. Rather, currently, only having their shared lifetotal reduced causes them to lose (as a team).

Rather similarly, currently it still takes 10 poison to eliminate a player, when poison is supposed to count on the TEAM, and up to 15 (half of 30, the shared starting lifetotal). [I have issues with how this is applied in Commander, but as that is purely a rules issue, it doesn't matter here.]

3C. Blocking as a team is impossible, moreover if one player has a planeswalker but no creatures, while the partner has creatures, but is not being attacked. Being able to attack/block together is one of the key elements of 2HG gaming, and certainly more visceral than the esoteric status of shared turn structure. Despite this, one cannot simply block for one's ally when his opposite member is attacking.

3D. Effects that refer to you with certain broad applications (Platinum Angel, Laboratory Maniac) only affect the controller of the effect if a given condition would occur (losing the game, winning the game, etc.). These need to be resolved in such a way that pretends (at the least) that your ally benefits from them as well (when applicable). Effects that care about "defending player" do not care about your ally: Propaganda-effects, attacking into a Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is negated when you are attacking the other guy; similarly, Blazing Archon is borked in this manner.

Several of these issues may reflect the casualness of the game's accessibility: Any player can jump into a game without having to coordinate with another player or modify their deck. Problematically, this means the game isn't really Two-Headed Giant: Rather, the game has become 2v2, teams with shared life-totals, and no other rules apply. If MTGO wants that format to be the one that is played, and will not institute or fix these issues that have been in since V2 (that's what, five years running now?) then they need to stop calling it "Two-Headed Giant."

Correcting these issues may also allow further elements to be enabled: The ability to play 2HG variants of other multiplayer formats, such as 2HG Commander, 3HG or even Emperor Commander, and 2HG Planechase (but also Commander Planechase, where the "Chaos deck" aspect was introduced to fight the singularity of the format).

I had hoped these features would have been enabled in the format, but it appears that they have not; and I worry that they will not be fixed.
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I can no longer play 2HG on MTGO. The problems that are present in the game are just too numerous. The Beta for V4 tells me there are no attempts to resolve these issues:


Almost all of those issues are unrelated to the beta. The updating of 2HG to the "correct" rules is a completely separate issue.

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I can no longer play 2HG on MTGO. The problems that are present in the game are just too numerous. The Beta for V4 tells me there are no attempts to resolve these issues:


Almost all of those issues are unrelated to the beta. The updating of 2HG to the "correct" rules is a completely separate issue.



I disagree. The functionality of the gaming is that the Beta is meant to be solving the issues V3 had; it doesn't solve the issues with 2HG that were persistent with V3, with the implication that it would be solving many issues in total; thus it was implied that V4 would solve the issues with 2HG; it doesn't; thus, I am bringing this up here. The new functionality makes some features easier (such as setting teams on the lower vs upper halves of the playing field rather than randomly vertically or horizontally divided), but it doesn't solve ANY of the actual gameplay problems. It further introduces further problems, in that the Command zone is split (Planes in a "Plane Zone," commanders on the field!), implying that the functionality argument is, indeed, very much a feature the Beta can address.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)