Vampire help? Yeah, I'm a masochist.

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Hi all. So I'm interested in Vampire. I've played two one shots eith a Vampire, and I enjoyed both. This one would be part of a Campaign. The party right now is bow ranger, shaman, and berzerker. I figured with the cavalier MC, I could do some semi-decent off tanking and okay damage. The character is the owner of a speakeasy in the 1920's. I'm not opposed to playing something else, but I'm pretty married to Charisma, and I'm having trouble finding anything that would use that and still fit my playstyle. I tried building a few Warlocks but they're all too squishy or imobile, or have too much emphasis on range. And I will never ever play another Assassin. Hexblade might work but I'm already playing a Hexblade in another campaign and don't really wish to build another. Help would be appreciated!!
what level? what help do you need? ive seen some decent hybrid vamp/cavs but if youre playing low level straight up vamps then you just need the basic feats, ki focus expertise, superior implement training (accurate ki focus), implement focus, and then see how it plays

race-wise, i prefer to use humans to get heroic effort and the extra feat, just boost charisma to 20 (+2 from racial bump) with a 14 dex. youre pretty fragile by nature but thats life as a vamp

thats my input at least

if on the other hand you want to HYBRID vamp/cav, one of your feats will be hybrid talent to get all the cav armor. its up to you but it 'drains' some of the power from the vamp (pun intended)
here is my level 1 vamp


Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vlad, level 1
Human, Vampire
Harper Pin Option: Lliira's Grace
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Harper Agent
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 20, INT 10, WIS 9, CHA 14
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 10, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 9, CHA 14
 
 
AC: 17 Fort: 12 Ref: 16 Will: 14
HP: 32 Surges: 2 Surge Value: 8
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +5, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Thievery +10
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +0, Dungeoneering –1, Endurance +0, Heal –1, History +0, Insight –1, Intimidate +2, Nature –1, Perception –1, Religion +0, Stealth +5, Streetwise +2
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Vampire Attack 1: Swarm of Shadows
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
 
FEATS
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus)
Level 1: Ki Focus Expertise
 
ITEMS
Harper Pin
Accurate ki focus x1
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) x1
Adventurer's Kit
Thieves' Tools
Climber's Kit
====== End ======


here is my level 12

Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Vlad, level 12
Human, Vampire, Adroit Explorer
Harper Pin Option: Lliira's Grace
Harper Pin Option: Tymora's Luck
Ambitious Effort Option: Ambitious Effort Existing Power
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Harper Agent
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 12, DEX 22, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 18
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 11, DEX 17, INT 11, WIS 9, CHA 15
 
 
AC: 29 Fort: 24 Ref: 28 Will: 28
HP: 89 Surges: 4 Surge Value: 22
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +17, Athletics +11, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Thievery +17
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +7, Heal +6, History +7, Insight +6, Intimidate +10, Nature +6, Perception +6, Religion +7, Stealth +12, Streetwise +10
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Vampire Attack: Blood Drinker
Vampire Attack 1: Swarm of Shadows
Vampire Attack 1: Dark Beckoning
Vampire Attack 1: Taste of Life
Vampire Attack 1: Vampire Slam
Acrobatics Utility 2: Agile Recovery
Human Utility 2: Extra Effort
Vampire Attack 3: Feral Assault
Vampire Attack 5: Unfettered Hunger
Acrobatics Utility 6: Tumbling Dodge
Vampire Attack 9: Domineering Gaze
Vampire Utility 10: Gaseous Form
Adroit Explorer Utility 12: Destined for Greatness
 
FEATS
Level 1: Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus)
Level 1: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 2: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 4: Improved Initiative
Level 6: Improved Defenses
Level 8: Resilient Focus
Level 10: Durable
Level 11: Cunning Stalker
Level 12: Unarmored Agility
 
ITEMS
Harper Pin
Adventurer's Kit
Thieves' Tools
Climber's Kit
Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier)
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Cascading Strikes Accurate ki focus +3 x1
Badge of the Berserker +3 x1
Magic Kestrekel Feather Armor +3 x1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier) x1
Gauntlets of Blood (heroic tier) x1
Belt of Lucky Strikes x1
====== End ======
Okay, now that I'm not on my phone...

What I'm looking for is an effective melee/caster type. I initially went with vampire because I enjoy the whole balancing of healing surges, but I know they lose steam later in life (By the way, this is going to be at level 7). Essentially, there's not a whole lot of reason to play a Vampire over a Charisma monk, unless you want to be really effective at not dying. The Charisma Monk does everything else better, it just doesn't have the ridiculous tenacity of a Vampire.

But I thought about the Warlock. This character is supposed to be sort of a dark type. Imagine the seedy businessman who makes you feel like you just made a deal with the devil. That's my character. Practitioner of dark magic, but generally keeps to himself at his establishment. Wears an enigmatic grin, and always has something up his sleeve. That's what I'm imagining.

I toyed around with a couple of Warlock builds alongside the Vampire, and I just can't really come up with anything that sticks. It always feels like its missing something. Part of my issue is I'm afraid of creating something that ends up being too similar to our Berzerker (strikey/defendery). That being said I appreciate the builds froth.
youre welcome

for an effective melee/caster feel, something that might not immediately come to mind is an invoker. with staff expertise you do not provoke attacks in melee, you have better than average starting armor, and it fits the 'deal with the devil' flavor somewhat, perhaps not as dead on as the warlock, but certainly can fit...calling up something you shouldnt have

it isnt really charisma based though, but it accomplishes a lot of what you wanted. just a thought

i like playing warlocks too though, nothing wrong with them at all. maybe you could try the newish hexblade; as you are likely aware, its a more melee-based warlock, same kind of flavor


good luck!
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Melee striker with CHA?

Barbarian|Cleric, Str/Cha.
Sorc|Barb.
Sorc|Exe or Rogue. This'd be Dex/Cha.
Pure Sorc, focus on close bursts/blasts. Dragon works great for this.
Eldritch strike Warlock.
Warlock|Swormdage.
Thief. You have no secondary, go Dex/Cha for the social skills. Done.

Those range from optimal to decent. Really more than a dozen options. All of them better than Vampire.
Cha based melee attacker.  Still can use a neck piece to raise fort/ref/will, armor to raise AC.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 7
Tiefling, Warlock
Eldritch Pact Option: Sorcerer-King Pact
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Proficiency: Implement Proficiency (Staff)
Proficiency: Weapon Proficiency (Rapier)
Gritty Sergeant (Gritty Sergeant Benefit)
Theme: Elemental Initiate
 
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 17, DEX 12, INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 19
 
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 16, DEX 12, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 16
 
 
AC: 15 Fort: 16 Ref: 16 Will: 18
HP: 59 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 14
 
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +10, Bluff +14, History +10, Insight +7, Streetwise +12, Thievery +9
 
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Athletics +3, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +2, Endurance +6, Heal +2, Intimidate +7, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +5, Stealth +6
 
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Elemental Initiate Attack: Disciplined Counter
Warlock's Curse  Power: Warlock's Curse
Feat Utility: Warlock's Wrath
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Hand of Blight
Warlock Attack 1: Cruel Bounty
Warlock Attack 1: Decree of Khirad
Warlock Utility 2: Assassin's Bane
Warlock Attack 3: Sinister Extraction
Warlock Attack 5: Emerald Shield
Elemental Initiate Utility 6: Restoring Touch
Warlock Attack 7: Touch of Command
 
FEATS
Level 1: Mindbite Scorn
Level 2: White Lotus Dueling Expertise
Level 4: Blade Initiate
Level 6: Warlock's Wrath
 
ITEMS
Lesser Cloaked Rapier +2
====== End ======

Every power there allows you to use it either in melee or is a close attack.  Assassin's Bane allows you to lock out forms of movement which would fit for someone running a speak easy.  The Lesser Cloaked Rapier allows you to hide that you carry a weapon so most patrons do not know you are armed.  Blade Initiate allows you to use your rapier as your implement.  Eldritch Strike is a melee attack that replaces your MBA.

This is just something I threw together fast.  Most of the spells are melee touch or close and are based on cha.  Once you hit 11, you can twofold pact into infernal and start gaining temp hp when your pact boon goes off which will make you a little tougher.
The Iconic Vampire
On Vampire Optimization

 

If you really want to be a vampire that much, just do something else and multiclass.
I don't always play strikers... but when I do, I prefer literally anything besides Vampire. 
Stay thirsty, my friends.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
I bow sir.  I bow.
I did write the handbook.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
Oh, I know.  And the vampire is one of those that seems interesting until you really look at it and realize that it fails miserably at just about everything.
I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?
I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?

It doesn't scale well.  And the options are more or less locked, so you can't break out.


If your playing in heroic, then vampires work out just fine.  Since everyone pretty much takes the same feats (expertise, superior weapon, improved defense, weapon focus), and relies on at-wills.

But come paragon, your regen isn't doing nearly enough, blood drinker bonus damage is minmal.  It's only worth looseing a surge for multi-target attacks (something other strikers get for free).  The extra THP at 19 and 23 tend to run into eachother, and thus not give the full benifit.

I mean, compair
Sorcerer's blazing starfall, 1d4+cha+str+2(+str)
And monk's five storms, 1d8+Dex+Str+3
And a vampire's feral assault, 2d12+Cha+Dex+2, loose a surge.

So a surge for 8.5 more damage.

That's compairing an encounter vs at-wills.

Also, there's no minor action, or off action attacks.  Which are overpowered comparied to normal attacks, and something all other strikers have.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?



It can't compete with other strikers. As a striker, it's not just the worst, it falls short of what the game math requires.

That said, the vampire makes an excellent utility character and can make a phenomenal tank. Unforunately, the former's use is impossible to accurately judge and the latter isn't terribly useful without some sort of defender mechanic.  

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?



It can't compete with other strikers. As a striker, it's not just the worst, it falls short of what the game math requires.

That said, the vampire makes an excellent utility character and can make a phenomenal tank. Unforunately, the former's use is impossible to accurately judge and the latter isn't terribly useful without some sort of defender mechanic.  


In this case, I'm curious what a good Hybrid or Multiclass build would be good for a defending Vampire?
Another problem is that it's dual primary Dex/Cha.

So you can't really go 18, and it really hurts you to use the extra points for feat qualification.


Though yea... having an at-will vs each NAD, as well as push/pull, flying utility, climbing speed, and darkvision is useful.

Dailies are pretty good too.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?



It can't compete with other strikers. As a striker, it's not just the worst, it falls short of what the game math requires.

That said, the vampire makes an excellent utility character and can make a phenomenal tank. Unforunately, the former's use is impossible to accurately judge and the latter isn't terribly useful without some sort of defender mechanic.  


In this case, I'm curious what a good Hybrid or Multiclass build would be good for a defending Vampire?

Hmm...

Vampire/Tactical Warpriest...

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I haven't created a Vampire as I read that it's a fail class so I don't really bother with it.  But my curiosity is piqued, what is so bad about the class in itself?



It can't compete with other strikers. As a striker, it's not just the worst, it falls short of what the game math requires.

That said, the vampire makes an excellent utility character and can make a phenomenal tank. Unforunately, the former's use is impossible to accurately judge and the latter isn't terribly useful without some sort of defender mechanic.  


In this case, I'm curious what a good Hybrid or Multiclass build would be good for a defending Vampire?

Hmm...

Vampire/Tactical Warpriest...


I'll have to take a look at that then. Though ym first thoiught was Hybrid Vampire|Paladin with a CHA focus.
Hmm...

Vampire/Tactical Warpriest...


I'll have to take a look at that then. Though ym first thoiught was Hybrid Vampire|Paladin with a CHA focus.

Hybrids loose their late game THP generation.  They only get to keep their regen, and surge generation.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Ah, ok. I read the Vampire Tactical Warpriest as a hybrid for some reason. I'll go recheck those then.
Err... 

Well, i guess it's at lvl 7, so let game THP won't come into play, and you can't take tactical warpriest PP.



Vampires make a fine tanky-striker at level 7.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

What multiclass feat should be taken for the Cleric/Warpriest? Or do I start as a Warpriest and take the Vampire MC?
What multiclass feat should be taken for the Cleric/Warpriest?

Initiate of the Faith has less requirements then divine healer.  A daily heal isn't bad either.

To bad your wasting 1/2 the PP features though...   but i don't think there's any other way to get a mark and punishment.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Marking can be gotten through Blade Bravo. Punishment is a different story.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
It's not so much that the vampire is bad.  Sure, it's bad, but the real nail in the coffin (ar har har) is that there's nothing you can do to make it better.

There is no functional optimization for a vampire.  None.  Nothing, nada, zip, zilch, noway nohow.  Sure, you can tack on generic optimization things, but at that point you're no better than someone who didn't choose a class.

The fundamental problem is that the vampire has no meaningful choices whatsoever.  You fire up a vampire in the builder, and you are presented with a whopping two choices:  a utility power at level 2, and another utility power at level 22.  And do you know how many choices there are at each of those levels?  Two.  You pick one of two things, and that's all the change you can make to your character.  It's really quite pathetic.


Also, I really have to say that Hexblade is pretty much perfect.  I get that you're trying to find something else, but they really do have that niche pretty well covered. 
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
It's not so much that the vampire is bad.  Sure, it's bad, but the real nail in the coffin (ar har har) is that there's nothing you can do to make it better



Charge, get 100 DPR 
It's not so much that the vampire is bad.  Sure, it's bad, but the real nail in the coffin (ar har har) is that there's nothing you can do to make it better



Charge, get 100 DPR 



Way to olympically miss his next paragraph bro. There's nothing you can do to make the vampire better that actually belongs to the vampire.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
Hey, ignoring parts of posts to make a point is how the real internet debaters do it.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Actually, can that even be done any more? Kulkor's gone, as are a number of the usual tools.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish.
Vain? Me? NEVER.
57223408 wrote:
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
56868168 wrote:
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC:
(19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection. (01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D (01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
tsuyo has a point - can a completely generic charger get up to 100 DPR in the post-Kulkor era? I'd bet no.
tsuyo has a point - can a completely generic charger get up to 100 DPR in the post-Kulkor era? I'd bet no.

Yes. Kulkor made it 150.
Also, thread title is wrong.  Playing a vampire makes you a sadist, not a masochist.  It's relatively painless for you, but it's torture on anyone you're playing with who could have gotten a useful party member.  Especially if you start leeching surges off of them to keep yourself alive...
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
tsuyo has a point - can a completely generic charger get up to 100 DPR in the post-Kulkor era? I'd bet no.

Yes. Kulkor made it 150.



Isn't Kulkor contributing around 40% or so of that, though? Because if it is, I think it falls a bit short. I'd have to revisit the original thread to truly verify that, though it's likely close enough that it doesn't really matter in the long run.
Isn't Kulkor contributing around 40% or so of that, though? Because if it is, I think it falls a bit short. I'd have to revisit the original thread to truly verify that, though it's likely close enough that it doesn't really matter in the long run.

No. In fact Mello's build got most of its damage from pre-nerf spark slippers, he only used like three charge enhancers. It is quite possible to hit 100 with Permafrost+the full charge package, though, because with Gouge+Polearm Momentum the monster either attacks you, and you riposte, or it is effectively stunned. Which gives you a fully tricked out charge+an extra MBA, every round at 95% accuracy. Higher, if you pick Avenger as the base class.
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