Unarmored(?) Fighter help.

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Due to the inevitability of not sounding absurd i will have to ask to bear with me on this one.

The thing is, i like fighters. I like fighters in real life, in fiction, in history, in games and in art.  I also like the 4th edition fighter, in my opinion it is a great class with great powers and potential variety. My only concern is the fighter's armor. As it is, you have two choices, either go heavy armor and dump Dexterity (thus reducing your initiative and speed, unless you invest on feats) or pumping Dexterity and wear light armor, which needs heavy Dex investment to keep up with "defender status" AC.

My perversity is that i want to play a Wisdom secondary fighter, but as lightly armored as possible. No heavy armor, no shield, if possible plain cloth (i know that is absurd by rule standards, just tossing it out there).

Is there any way to pull this off? Unarmored agility is something, the Runepriest has the wonderfull (for this purpose) Serene Blade class feature that among others lets him use Wisdom to AC when not in heavy armor, Monks and Avengers have bonus AC when in no armor at all. Can any of these be acquired without homebrew?

If it is through homebrew, what do you suggest?

Note: i do not want to play a Monk or an Avenger, please refrain from answers in the lines of "play one of these classes".

Thank you in advance.

 
How about a Hybrid Fighter, though? If you Hybrid Runepriest, you'll get WIS to AC, a regenerating pool of THP, and you won't lose all that much.
Won't it loose too much on marking and fighter class features? Also it feels like loosing one at will. I have to admit that i would prefer straight fighter for the "i pwn that much cause of my training" martial power source. Will review that again though.
Arid desert berserker?
Define "unarmoured". You can make a perfectly good Fighter by having a high DEX and wearing Hide.
Arid desert berserker?



Please explain. If it is from Essentials though i do not think it will pass through my DM's firewall.

Define "unarmoured". You can make a perfectly good fighter by having a high DEX and wearing Hide.



As i mentioned i am aware of that. What i want is a Wisdom based light armored fighter, or at best not armored at all ( normal clothing).
Won't it loose too much on marking and fighter class features? Also it feels like loosing one at will. I have to admit that i would prefer straight fighter for the "i pwn that much cause of my training" martial power source. Will review that again though.



The basic issue is that by having Light Armor, you must raise both your Str and your AC providing stat. That limits the number of viable choices that you have. Here are the ones that I see:
Half-Orc Str/Dex Tempest Fighter.
Hybrid Str/Wis Fighter|Warden. Spend the hybrid talent feat on picking up Wildblood and therefore Wis to AC.
Hybrid Str/Wis Fighter|Runepriest(Serene Blade)
Hybrid Str/Cha Fighter|Sorcerer
Hybrid Str/Dex Fighter|Cleric with Battle Cleric's Lore - +2 to AC without a shield
Arid Desert Berserker who just uses the martial Berserker powers instead of the primal options. 
Arid desert berserker?



Please explain. If it is from Essentials though i do not think it will pass through my DM's firewall.



A Berserker is a mixed breed Barbarian built for both Defending and Striking depending on what you're doing at the moment.  Arid Desert is a type, you get to select from one of three.  They get a +3 AC and a +2 REF while not wearing any armor or shield, and then another +2 AC while your Defender Aura is active.  Add in 18 DEX (it's a str/dex class) and the Unarmored Agility feat and you will have top tier AC while wearing cloth.  Stick them with a Fullblade and enjoy.  I'm not sure if they're in Essentials exactly, but they are that style of class.

Is there a particular reason for your DM to dislike those?  Lack of source material on hand, or just doesn't like players having the option to select classes that usually lack the power availability of non-Essentials classes?

Edit:  Berserker is found in Heroes of the Feywild book, page 42 according to Compendium.
Mostly the fact that they generally have the role of some of the non-essential classes, but without the power selection as you said.

The berserker seems interesting, although as i said i want something that keys off of wisdom as a secondary, and do not want to deviate far from fighter (i love some of their powers too much). 

Mommy, thanks for your recommendations. While interesting i cannot see something that catches my attention (i am really hard to please in character creation).
The berserker is just a variation of a barbarian.  They are not an "essentials" class per se as they have at wills, encounters, and dailies.
Play a straight Warden. Two varieties can use WIS for AC. Just take powers that aren't obviously supernatural and call it a martial character.

Co-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.

Wear scale. Refluff the str/dex skill check penalty as an injury, say you're not wearing anything. Done.
refluffing is probably the best way to go, though my DM is pretty harsh on such matters. I will try it ou though, will also see about the warden.
refluffing is probably the best way to go, though my DM is pretty harsh on such matters. I will try it ou though, will also see about the warden.

Tell your DM refluffing is specifically encouraged as a core part of 4e.
TBH - it shounds like you could take an avenger and refluff them to give you a non-divine feel and walk away happy.
TBH - it shounds like you could take an avenger and refluff them to give you a non-divine feel and walk away happy.



We already have an avenger in our group, and we do need a defender/lockdowner. I also enjoy playing a fighter more than anything, but as a more strikery choice it sounds good, i will keep this in mind.

Alcestis, i remember an article on dragon about refluffing, i will talk to my DM and lead him that route. 
The berserker is just a variation of a barbarian.  They are not an "essentials" class per se as they have at wills, encounters, and dailies.


Ah right, not Essentials really at all.  Heck, you wind up lifting a good chunk of powers from the Barbarian side more often than not.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish beyond "I want an unarmored fighter" ?

What kind of weapons do you see him using, what race do you want him to be?  
The berserker is just a variation of a barbarian.  They are not an "essentials" class per se as they have at wills, encounters, and dailies.


Ah right, not Essentials really at all.  Heck, you wind up lifting a good chunk of powers from the Barbarian side more often than not.



You should be using nearly all Barbarian powers, since attempting to play a Berzerker as a Defender is a bad idea, and trying to play it as BOTH is a horrendous idea.
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What exactly are you trying to accomplish beyond "I want an unarmored fighter" ?

What kind of weapons do you see him using, what race do you want him to be?  



As far as weapons go, probably heavy blades/polearms/spears or being an arena fighter using these and staffs for the expertise synergy.

Race is Longtooth Shifter , Str/Wis bonus and a nice encounter, also nice fluff.

Beyond the unarmored part i want a character with decent damage, decent defenses as he is going to be a defender and good lockdown options (some mobility would be nice). These are somewhat inherent on a fighter with good power selection, that is why i am asking about the armor.

If you do have ideas though feel free to post them.
A Str/Wis Hybrid Fighter/Warden. Longtooth Shifter, Hybrid talant for wildblood and go the polearm momentum route. You could wear hide armor and be a decent lock down defender.
You COULD just be an avenger
A Str/Wis Hybrid Fighter/Warden. Longtooth Shifter, Hybrid talant for wildblood and go the polearm momentum route. You could wear hide armor and be a decent lock down defender.



Even though i prefer refluffing, sounds good. I will mess with it in the vhar builder.

You COULD just be an avenger



I do not want to sound offensive but did you read the thread? The Avenger, while unarmored, already exists in my group. Also we need a defender- lockdowner, not another striker.
Be a STR/WIS fighter wear scale "armor" and claim it is a hardened second skin. That could be a way to refluff.
 
Tough skin from battle scars and training, mental awareness and perceptive dodging (high wis mod), all these seem legit, any other idea?
Well the previously mentioned Fighter|Serene Runepriest works pretty nice. You have a tiny bit of divine influence, but the WIS to AC and temps are basically you perceptively avoiding attacks and if one hits the temps are basically you learning from the last hit how to better cushion the next. Word of Binding at-will helps you lock down a target and give allies some bonuses. Word of the Blinding Shield helps you defend from a distance. And various dailies and utilities can be of benefit. The rest you load up like a standard fighter, and hybrid talent for whatever flavor fighter interests you.
Well the previously mentioned Fighter|Serene Runepriest works pretty nice. You have a tiny bit of divine influence, but the WIS to AC and temps are basically you perceptively avoiding attacks and if one hits the temps are basically you learning from the last hit how to better cushion the next. Word of Binding at-will helps you lock down a target and give allies some bonuses. Word of the Blinding Shield helps you defend from a distance. And various dailies and utilities can be of benefit. The rest you load up like a standard fighter, and hybrid talent for whatever flavor fighter interests you.

+1.
Probably a better option than fighter/warden. I helped a friend with a Cleric/Serene Runepriest and i may just have to fiddle around with this combo. 
Warden|Fighter is probably the better idea. Warden has some really, really dumb stuff but is hamstrung by lacking good feats...which is easy to fix with Fighter. And it can get some awesome AC if it tries.
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What if you rely on other mechanics to pad your AC but don't dump dexterity? It may be doable (I don't know how it would scale over levels), but I think your Constitution would suck if you pumped Wisdom aggressively.

At level 1, if you start with a 16 dexterity and a 15 wisdom, you can go with Arena Training and grab the Divine Healer multiclass feat. Wearing Hide Armor and selecting Battle Cleric's Lore, you'd have a 19 AC.

If you do not pump Dexterity, you can end up with an AC of 47 in Elderhide at level 30 with the purchase of a Paragon Elven Chain Shirt along the way. That's defender level AC (though the lowest side of it). Your Wisdom would be 22 if you pump it each time, and 24 with an Epic Destiny boost. Alternatively, you could bump your Dexterity with an Epic Destiny boost for an AC of 48, or your Constitution to grab Hide Armor Specialization.

But like I said before, I don't know if you'd maintain defender-level AC between level 1 and level 30 (you start out on the high side, but drop down to the low side at some point). And to get those stats you're pretty much trashing your Constitution score.

That said, you don't have to Hybrid or Re-skin anything. Is there anything else that can boost his AC? I'm thinking a defensive weapon but it looks like he wants to go two-handed. Maybe consistent CA paired with Defensive Advantage?

If it is a homegame, a "use wis for ac" feat wouldn't be overpowered.
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refluffing is probably the best way to go, though my DM is pretty harsh on such matters. I will try it ou though, will also see about the warden.

It would be completely unreasonable for him to say no to this.  As long as you follow the mechanics of what's on your character sheet, you have the right to describe yourself however you want.  AC is a broad concept, not just a measurement of the thickness of your armor.

This is purely an issue of fluff, not mechanics, and should be dealt with accordingly.  I hope your DM understands that.

Of course there are plenty of cool ways to play a ckoth-wearing, defenderish melee character. But if you want to play a fighter, play a fighter.
refluffing is probably the best way to go, though my DM is pretty harsh on such matters. I will try it ou though, will also see about the warden.

It would be completely unreasonable for him to say no to this.  As long as you follow the mechanics of what's on your character sheet, you have the right to describe yourself however you want.  AC is a broad concept, not just a measurement of the thickness of your armor.



I would disagree with that on a few points:
You have the right to refluff as long as you're not getting any kind of benefit. In other words, even though you're wearing 'cloth', people recognize that you're wearing 'heavy armor equivalent to scale' - as an example, I can't claim to be a Leader type wearing Plate when I'm actually wearing Chain unless everyone looking at me recognizes that my AC is kind of low for Plate somehow.

Why is his speed changing? Why does his speed change when he wears 'regular clothes', but not when he wears regular clothes?

Magic item distribution can get wacky. As an example, there's an Avenger in the party. So when you find a set of 'cloth' armor, why isn't the Avenger proficient with it? When you find a set of 'scale' armor that looks like cloth, why won't the Cleric with Battle Cleric's Lore get it?
I agree that you might have to make up some explanations for things, but there's no mechanical shenanigans going on here.  I suppose some people could be unwilling to bend their storytelling in such a minor way, but I'd call him/her unreasonably stubborn.
I agree that you might have to make up some explanations for things, but there's no mechanical shenanigans going on here.  I suppose some people could be unwilling to bend their storytelling in such a minor way, but I'd call him/her unreasonably stubborn.



There is a mechanical impact when a monster thinks he sees X when the character is actually wearing Y and the only way around it is for the DM to metagame. There's an immersion-breaking impact when the DM is handing out treasure where he literally has to tell the Avenger that he can't wear the magical clothes that they just found, because they're special Fighter-only clothes.

I wouldn't want to deal with that as a DM. I'd probably let the PC refluff Warden into being a Martial class as long as he chose options that were not clearly primal in nature, such as radiating cold or something similar.
Looking it over, the Serene Blade Runepriest is a pretty potent option. The only big issue is that you can't hybrid Arena Fighter. But Word of Binding is a very slick addition to the fighter's arsenal, you also get more damage buffs and survivability, plus some multi-attack powers. I'd probably look at either using a greatspear (lower AC, but shenanigans) or a flail/shield (better AC, still some shenanigans). The big issue is that you have issues maintaining the mark, but if your DM allows themes I'd take Sentinel Marshal and call it a day.