How do you steal a villain's potion in combat?

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You're in combat with a dastardly villain. He grabs the all-important MacGuffin from the nearby altar and shoves it in his belt pouch. You trade sword blows, but you know you need that MacGuffin. You don't need to kill this guy -- you just need that MacGuffin.

How can you grab it from him?

***

What house rule would you allow to let a player grab an object from someone's belt/backpack/pocket in combat? Sleight of Hand comes to mind, but there is no stealth involved here -- it's just brute-force grabbing an object.

All suggestions appreciated

Thanks,
-Darakonis

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Standard action to grab. Unarmed attack vs AC. Alternatively, with a brawler fighter, who gets an off-hand grab attack, that could be used, with the villain getting a saving throw. Save means villain and PC are now both grabbing each other, and STR vs Fort to win& break free.

Make sure villain has a good neee-ner neee-Ner Neeeeee-Nerrrr speach or two.
I'd make it an unarmed attack vs Reflex that provokes an Opportunity Attack (a successful hit would ruin the snatch attempt). If the player comes up with a clever way of snatching the item, however, I'd let a successful skill check bypass the OA (such as using Acrobatics to slide between the enemy's legs before snatching the item away). Just going for the item in a straightforward manner, though? The enemy's gonna know exactly what you're trying to do and punish you for it.

BTW, there's never any reason you have to kill someone over an item. KO your enemy, take the MacGuffin and his coin purse, and then draw something obscene on his forehead.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
Sounds like an in-combat skill challenge, stealth, (or bluff) thievery, acrobatics.
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Thievery opposed by Insight or Perception might be the simplest way, but I wouldn't allow a player to try it until the big bad is at a certain HP ratio (say down to 1/4).

Happy Gaming
i would really try to avoid a skill challenge, but thats just my opinion. i would probably have the guy make an attack or a hard check as a standard action one round to try and grab the item; so at that point both of them are fighting for control of it. next round, unless he has been forced-moved away, or the villain originally holding the item has done something else to get rid of the guy trying to take it on his turn, i would likely have the guy grabbing it use a standard action to make a str vs fort or possibly acr or thievery vs ref check, similar to escaping a grab. if he succeeded in taking the item i probably wouldnt let him move that turn, or move very far on the same turn


imo you would have to make something like this somewhat challenging to pull off, but i personally would rather just rule it on the fly than use a skill challenge-that sucks the life out of it for me
I agree with frothsof.  This isn't so complicated that a skill challenge is needed.  It's a grab.  Make a grab check against the villain.  I'd say you have to make an unarmed attack first and hit, and then make opposed Athletics or Thievery checks (each side chooses their own check).
Wouldn't dazing, stunning, or dominating the guy make this very easy?
Wouldn't dazing, stunning, or dominating the guy make this very easy?


not if hes one of my solos it wont!
Thanks for all the suggestions! I've combined them to make the following, which is what I'll likely use:


Snatch: Standard Action


 Target: You can attempt to snatch a readily accessible object off a creature, such as a sheathed weapon, a coin purse, or a holy symbol. The creature must be within your melee reach (don't count extra reach from a weapon).


 Dexterity Attack: Make a Dexterity attack vs. Reflex. Do not add any weapon modifiers. You must have at least one hand free to make a snatch attempt.


     Hit: The object has been removed from the creature and is held in your hand.


 Opportunity Attack: A snatch attempt provokes an Opportunity Attack from your enemy. If the attack hits you, your snatch attempt fails and your action is lost.

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Isn't this just a Thievery check?

RC p. 156 should pretty much handle this.  Basically:

Standard Action
Thievery vs. Hard DC equal to target's level
Requirement: You must be adjacent to object, target must not be holding object and object is small or smaller
Success: Take the object from target without the target noticing
Failure by 4 or less: You fail to take the object, but the target does not notice
Failure by 5 or more: You fail to take the object, and the target notices the attempt

Sleight of Hand might work if you're pulling a fast one (opposed Thievery and Perception checks and all), but I think pick pocket is more appropriate.
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57047238 wrote:
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If he stuck it in his belt pouch....couldn't you cut the pouch off?

Plus, then the thing ends up getting kicked everywhere! 

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I agree with frothsof.  This isn't so complicated that a skill challenge is needed.  It's a grab.  Make a grab check against the villain. 

Well said.

I'd say you have to make an unarmed attack first and hit, and then make opposed Athletics or Thievery checks (each side chooses their own check).

In 4e, a grab is just a Strength attack vs. Reflex.

I do like frothsof's idea of fighting over it though (depending on the item); maybe follow up the grab with a 'move a grabbed target' action (str vs. Fort) to wrest the item away.
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