The Community Set - Open Discussion

76 posts / 0 new
Last post
Welcome to the Community Set, anyone and everyone is more than welcome to participate!

This is the Open Discussion board!
How it Works:

Cards that are chosen from contests are moved here for analyzing.
Cards that you create on your own, that doesn't work with the current contest, can be posted in the [FFA Designs] Community Set - Aztal thread.
Cards get "judged" weekly, typically on the weekends.
There are three judgments that will be placed on cards:
+++ Accepted: This card will be accepted into the set.
+++ Extended Hold: This card has potential but still needs some tweaks and/or more support.
+++ Rejected: This card is either not what we need, or is too unlike the rest of the set.
(NOTE: rejected cards, from this thread, will go in a Rejected cards file, for us to use as needed.)
I will update weekly, what post current hopefuls are listed on, for quick reference.


Currently Under Discussion: Post # 064

Rules:

1) Just be nice. Be considerate of all people and their designs. This is a community set so I expect people from various experience levels to participate on and off. In your discussions, be truthful, but don't be harsh or blunt.
2) Cards on the designated Post # are the cards that are currently under discussion (for new additions to the set). Preferably start with those cards first.
3) If you have an idea of a card for the set, and it doesn't quite fit in the current contest criteria, post it in the [FFA Designs] Community Set - Aztal thread.
4) Have fun!
5) We will more than likely be discussing rarities in this thread. For those who are often disgusted by these discussioins, please refrain from trolling and such. For some reason, I don't know why, this tends to be a sensitive and/or sore spot for some people (you know who you are).


If you have any questions, post them here or message me... I dunnot. I'll work out those specifics laters. Enjoy!

PS: I apologize for spamming page 1 YMtC, this won't happen again... I hope.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
And we're finally into the card making stage!

I know you've just put up the first 24-hour contest, but for one of the next ones can we take a leaf out of Idol's book and make it a grease card contest? I think it would substantially help.

As an aside to everyone who hasn't participated in earlier discussion, when adding flavour text to cards, can you make sure you at least skim the flavour background first, so that everything meshes nicely.
 
Ego
144902215 wrote:
Morgothra has the Syntax and Grammar of a God.
56754738 wrote:
I love this card.
56771968 wrote:
I can't compete with this.
57461258 wrote:
@Morgothra: Beautifully said, sir. Beautifully said.
Contest Winners
CKY, magicpablo666 and Dinobeer combined ingenuity and silliness to win a Summer fUn contest each! vlord beat the rest to become the architect of a better tomorrow in Build it and they will come! CityofAs pranced masterfully to victory in Skipping Merrily! ConfusedAsUsual conquered both tropes and opponents to ascend in Metafiction! FirstTurnKill condensed Success into Art form in Summing it Up!
I have some advice for you people. I participated in a community set last year, went pretty well and we managed to complate a core set. One thing i advise is don't five each person a specfic colour to work on, because they end up being to protective of that colour, and making the colour a bit too powerful
Can I have some feedback on said idea: ?
High Noon v4 wasn't my favourite of the High Noons, but here's a suggestion I quite like.

We supply players with a 'High Noon' card, with X spaces (X is the number of counters after which High Noon is activated) and cool art. This card is considered a non-useable Magic card outside the game. This card is shared for both players in the game. It reads 'Whenever a Time counter is put onto this card, if there are X or more time counters on this card, remove all time counters from this card, it is High Noon until end of turn.'

Cards with High Noon say 'At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.' I would envisage a cycle of turn one drop lands.

High Noon Lands
Aztal Mountain
Land - Mountain
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Add to your mana pool.
High Noon ('At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.')

Aztal Plains
Land - Plains
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Add to your mana pool.
High Noon ('At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.')

Aztal Island
Land - Island
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Add to your mana pool.
High Noon ('At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.')

Aztal Swamp
Land - Swamp
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Add to your mana pool.
High Noon ('At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.')

Aztal Forest
Land - Forest
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
Add to your mana pool.
High Noon ('At the beginning of your upkeep, you may put a Time Counter on the 'High Noon' card.')

Cards effected by High Noon would read as normal: 'High Noon - If it is High Noon, [ABILITY]'.

Warp could read: 'Add or remove a time counter from each exiled permanent with Suspend and the High Noon card'

This removes the messy mess mess of lots counters on lots of permanents and also gives players a way to interact with High Noon, i.e. Making High Noon happen at an inconvenient time or delaying it's activation (if they have cards with High Noon). It also means for this set: Reckless counters on permanents, Time counters on Exiled cards - no mixing.

I'm agaisnt changing it to lands or turn count as they are hard to interact with and keep track of.

Finally, I would prefer X to be a small number so we have more exciting games and less waiting involved.

Cheers, vlord.
@vlord It's a good point, and if I remember correctly High Noon was originally this suggestion. It has the advantage of allowing High Noon to stack the more permanents on the battlefield that have it. On the other hand it is a bit more complicated to put in place an requires some more rules to work.

I think what finally makes me prefer the current one is balancing. With a single High Noon counter added to by everyone you end up in a situation where the 'magic number' (or whatever it's called) is either low, in which case having three or more High Noon permanents plus an opponent with a couple will lead to it basically being High Noon all the time; or, to counter that, high, which leads to a single High Noon permanent not doing anything by itself which is even worse.

A further point is that placing the counters on permanents will allow interactivity with other magic cards, as they can be killed, bounced or hit with clockspinning effects to acclerate or decelerate the onset of High Noon.

So in conclusion, I uphold v4 over your proposed change as what you lose in internal synergy between High Noon cards you make up for in balance and interaction.
Ego
144902215 wrote:
Morgothra has the Syntax and Grammar of a God.
56754738 wrote:
I love this card.
56771968 wrote:
I can't compete with this.
57461258 wrote:
@Morgothra: Beautifully said, sir. Beautifully said.
Contest Winners
CKY, magicpablo666 and Dinobeer combined ingenuity and silliness to win a Summer fUn contest each! vlord beat the rest to become the architect of a better tomorrow in Build it and they will come! CityofAs pranced masterfully to victory in Skipping Merrily! ConfusedAsUsual conquered both tropes and opponents to ascend in Metafiction! FirstTurnKill condensed Success into Art form in Summing it Up!
I don't know at what time this post should be placed but there are a few things I'd like to address before we go any further...

Now that we are officially going with HNv4 and Reckless I think this set has evolved into something that was originally not planned, which is great, discovery is key to creativity.  We still have the "timing matters"  theme with split second, suspend and opportunity(playtest name, hopefully not the final name) but we have also ventured into the area of "counters matter".  Both HN and Reckless utilize counters.  Not only that, it's safe to assume that this set will be utilizing a fair number of regular +1+1 counters as well unless we make it specifically forbidden.  That means that in order to mine this deep vein of design space we will need to switch our mechanical focus to creatures/spells with a counter heavy theme.  I know this wasn't voted on, but it kind of was...   

ideas: counter inhibitors, counter multipliers, counter creators, counter Lords etc...

Since counters are so prevalant throughout many magic sets it would be nice to have plenty of flavorful cards with open ended counter mechanics, cards which take advantage of the counter theme without restricting them to this set alone.  Interactivity with other cards and sets is a staple of a good set in my opinion.



I don't think we should have +1/+1 counters in this set. Time counters are enough bookkeeping for three sets.



I don't think we should have +1/+1 counters in this set. Time counters are enough bookkeeping for three sets.



Seconded. Especially since we also have Reckless counters.



I don't know how to move posts or whatever, but I think this works just fine. As a sidenote, our first discussion.

Here's what the discussion is right now:

High Noon v4 or v4.1:

Three mechanics in Aztal deal specifically with counters Suspend, Reckless, and High Noon. Suspend and High Noon utilize time counters, and Reckless utilize reckless counters. It has been a general worry that we should not mix and match counters, and I agree. However, if you look into this really only two of these mechanics will be "disgusting" when it comes to counters: Reckless and High Noon (Suspend uses time counters in the exile zone). If we can get rid of one of those, counter-wise, I feel a lot of worrying will be alleviated and as a set this would produce a positive result design-wise; I could be wrong, but we'll find out.

An answer has been proposed, it was my idea at first, I scrapped it for something else and then brought it up again. It's what I refer to as High Noon v4.1 now. Here it is:

High Noon v4.1

In it's simplest form: High Noon v4.1 is an ability word, relating to what turn # it is. Every fifth turn of the game, it is High Noon (Not every 5 of your turns, but 5 turns including your opponent's turns).

Officially, there would be a "Turn Counter Card" in the booster pack where a token would be (there will be tokens too). A turn counter card would have five steps (sported in a circle, and they would be colored WUBRG) and you would start at the first one, on turn one, and during each player's upkeep move a counter up one step. When the counter is placed on the 1 again, it is High Noon. This turn counter card can also be utilized by using the back of a Magic card, there are the five gems of color. Start turn one on the white gem and move the counter clockwise around (during each upkeep; it goes WUBRG), when it reaches the white gem again it's High Noon.


Concerns that I've noticed:
+++ If you play with a Turn Counter Card, people will know you're playing with High Noon.
+++ 5 may be too slow.
+++ It takes some design space out of the set, we can no long make French Vanilla creatures simply with High Noon (v4) on them
+++ Designs altering High Noon count will be less elegant than before.

My rebuttle:
+++ What are they going to do about it? If you're playing High Noon they'll find out eventually (usually within the first few turns). Other than in this set, they wouldn't have access to anything that would alter turn counting (which is in itself slightly worrying). I feel this is the least of our concerns.
+++ 5 may be too slow. As many have posted before, it seems that 3 or 4 have the popular votes. By changing it from every 5 of your turns, to every 5 turns altogether. This will increase the amount of High Noons we see each gaeme. Especially in multiplayer.
+++ Now we can't design something as elegant as one of the Spoiled lands from M13 (you know who you are!). I think mirroring that would be moreover exciting, by simply sticking High Noon (the keyword) on things that can be played on turn one so you can start racking up the High Noon count. High Noon v4.1 would remove this from design space.
+++ Related to the previous note, a simple desing now need some ugly words to work right. Examples below:
Break of Dawn -- COST
Instant (X)

Remove all time counters from all permanents and put 3 time counters on each permanent with High Noon.
(Utilizing High Noon v4)
Now becomes...
Break of Dawn -- COST
Instant (X)

Set the turn counter to 4 (This would be R in WUBRG)

These two spells do the same thing (they make it two turns before High Noon.) Sure the second card looks nicer, but it deals with things people haven't seen before. The first card does something everyone already knows how to do. This is a toss up, but something to think about. Here's High Noon v4 for reference.

High Noon v4

High Noon v4 is a keyword and an ability word. The keyword simply states that at the beginning of your upkeep you may put a time counter on that permanent, then if there are 5 or more time counters on it remove all of them and it is High Noon until the end of turn. The ability word is different per card and it triggers while it is High Noon (templating would be that of Threshold and/or Metalcraft).
The keyword and the ability word do not have to appear on the same card. They can, but they are not required to be.



1) Should High Noon be updated (from v4 to v4.1), for the sake of removing time counters from permanents (leaving suspended objects as the only objects utilizing time counters)?

EDIT: I put too much time into these posts lol. When I started this thread was empty... Some discussion about this has appeared prior to this post. It's a time traveler!
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
I don't know if anyone will be paying attention to this thread anymore, but I was hoping we could get a consensus about doing some kind of itenerary.  I would like to get all of the commons completed before moving forward on the other rarities.  Also I would like to save flavor(card names and flavor text) for last. I would rather have the card specs finalized before going into the creative aspect.  That's just me though, does anyone else have an opinion?
I don't know if anyone will be paying attention to this thread anymore, but I was hoping we could get a consensus about doing some kind of itenerary.  I would like to get all of the commons completed before moving forward on the other rarities.  Also I would like to save flavor(card names and flavor text) for last. I would rather have the card specs finalized before going into the creative aspect.  That's just me though, does anyone else have an opinion?


I agree there should be some itenerary, but I disagree with your method of going about it.
1) People tend to like designing more complex, unique, or complicated cards. These kinds of cards tend to go Uncommon and up. Limiting them to commons only at first will lose interest fast. However, I wouldn't start from rares to lower either. Personally, I'm planning on just seeing what we get to start with, and work from there. A little bit of everything.
2) I agree with your flavor and such, somewhat. I feel we should let them design freely, and we'll tweak the flavor and/or names as we see fit. That said, I think we should hold off on anything legendary until a little bit later in the set. To make sure we have correct and accurate information to work with.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
Chimney Demon
Creature - Demon
Flying
When ~ dies, target player puts their hand on top of their library.
4/4



I....I love you.

Chimney Demon
Creature - Demon
Flying
When ~ dies, target player puts their hand on top of their library.
4/4



I....I love you.




I don't know if anyone will be paying attention to this thread anymore, but I was hoping we could get a consensus about doing some kind of itenerary.  I would like to get all of the commons completed before moving forward on the other rarities.  Also I would like to save flavor(card names and flavor text) for last. I would rather have the card specs finalized before going into the creative aspect.  That's just me though, does anyone else have an opinion?


I agree there should be some itenerary, but I disagree with your method of going about it.
1) People tend to like designing more complex, unique, or complicated cards. These kinds of cards tend to go Uncommon and up. Limiting them to commons only at first will lose interest fast. However, I wouldn't start from rares to lower either. Personally, I'm planning on just seeing what we get to start with, and work from there. A little bit of everything.
2) I agree with your flavor and such, somewhat. I feel we should let them design freely, and we'll tweak the flavor and/or names as we see fit. That said, I think we should hold off on anything legendary until a little bit later in the set. To make sure we have correct and accurate information to work with.



I agree with Altimis w/r/t 1. One idea would be, a series of 48-hour rounds or contests wherein each participant created 3 commons, 2 uncommons, and 1 rare/mythic. And at the end we vote for them. That way nobody gets too bored with commons. I would also suggest it be done by color, to prevent flooding.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
Desert Shaman
Creature-Human Wizard

Tap~put a 1/1 white Spirit creature token into play

2/2

some say they summon the spirits of their ancestors to protect their holy places from outsiders, others say that they are insane.
I'm sorry, I'm not 100% sure where the High Noon discussion is, but I just had a thought.

I very strongly agree with vlord's suggestions that High Noon is too easy to anticipate and control, and even more importantly that if any High Noon proc causes it but removes ALL high noon counters, it will make a for a whole lot of boring counter-shifting for an entire game.

What if the high noon "activation" ability was present on some cards and tied into something like casting, like werewolves? I know from reading mark rosewaters column that they were thinking of using a "tracking card" type thing for day/night, but found it too cumbersome and boring. Maybe high noon could be something like High Noon (If X spells are cast in a turn and at least one was cast from exile, it is High Noon)? That would play nicely wiht suspend and the time theme.

Not a perfect idea, and sorry to be interjecting stuff like this late... I just think the current High Noon v4, while cool, will actually end up being irritating... But if we keep it, I will be happy to keep making cards for the set! 

Decks
Modern

Bloody Fangs

Cruel Master

Life Unbound

Survival of the Fittest

EDH

The Indomitable Doran, the Siege Tower

Mimeomancy The Mimeoplasm

Cube

360 Pauper "Colour Basics"

 

 

 

I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not 100% sure where the High Noon discussion is, but I just had a thought.

I very strongly agree with vlord's suggestions that High Noon is too easy to anticipate and control, and even more importantly that if any High Noon proc causes it but removes ALL high noon counters, it will make a for a whole lot of boring counter-shifting for an entire game.

What if the high noon "activation" ability was present on some cards and tied into something like casting, like werewolves? I know from reading mark rosewaters column that they were thinking of using a "tracking card" type thing for day/night, but found it too cumbersome and boring. Maybe high noon could be something like High Noon (If X spells are cast in a turn and at least one was cast from exile, it is High Noon)? That would play nicely wiht suspend and the time theme.

Not a perfect idea, and sorry to be interjecting stuff like this late... I just think the current High Noon v4, while cool, will actually end up being irritating... But if we keep it, I will be happy to keep making cards for the set! 



No, I figured this would be a debate for a while.

1) Flavorwise, High Noon is a completely anticipated and almost scheduled time every day. It's when the sun is at it's peak in the afternoon sky. Flavorwise it should be easily anticipated (in fact they purposefully hold duels at High Noon when their spellslinging is more potent). I am not at all perturbed by this fact.

2) I would very much like to use the "werewolf" mechanic BUT, that makes it even harder to make good High Noon spells. We'd either need a lot of cheap spells, for powerful High Noon spells; or a lot of cheap High Noon spells, with other spells. As of now niether of those options really appeal to me.

Personally I feel it is fine the way it is. I do feel that it should be predictable (with only a few spells manipulating it's progress.) That said, I would be MORE comfortable using a turn counter, that advances during each upkeep.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
@nukeshooter A version of High Noon with the same triggers as werewolves did actually turn up in mechanics voting but didn't make it through. I understand the cocern about it becoming cumbersome, but I don't think it would be anymore than thallids, and I didn't find them too difficult to keep track of at all.

@catowner Your enthusiam is great but (and after that opening whatever I say may come across as patronising but isn't intended to be) quite a few of your submitted cards could be construed as 'filler'. While there was no solid rules for how we start the set, I feel it would be preferable to lay down the cards that form the mechanical basis of Aztal, then grease and story cards, before adding the rest. So while I admire your industry, in fact I may join in myself if and when altimis comes forward with how he wants us to proceed, I would urge you to mainly design around the mechanics we've decided on and the main timing matters theme first and foremost.

EDIT: altimis snuck the answer in while I was typing.

@altimis Are we allowed to run our own Aztal contests?  It's just that I may have a large amount of free time in the next week or so, which needs filling  
Ego
144902215 wrote:
Morgothra has the Syntax and Grammar of a God.
56754738 wrote:
I love this card.
56771968 wrote:
I can't compete with this.
57461258 wrote:
@Morgothra: Beautifully said, sir. Beautifully said.
Contest Winners
CKY, magicpablo666 and Dinobeer combined ingenuity and silliness to win a Summer fUn contest each! vlord beat the rest to become the architect of a better tomorrow in Build it and they will come! CityofAs pranced masterfully to victory in Skipping Merrily! ConfusedAsUsual conquered both tropes and opponents to ascend in Metafiction! FirstTurnKill condensed Success into Art form in Summing it Up!
@nukeshooter A version of High Noon with the same triggers as werewolves did actually turn up in mechanics voting but didn't make it through. I understand the cocern about it becoming cumbersome, but I don't think it would be anymore than thallids, and I didn't find them too difficult to keep track of at all.

@catowner Your enthusiam is great but (and after that opening whatever I say may come across as patronising but isn't intended to be) quite a few of your submitted cards could be construed as 'filler'. While there was no solid rules for how we start the set, I feel it would be preferable to lay down the cards that form the mechanical basis of Aztal, then grease and story cards, before adding the rest. So while I admire your industry, in fact I may join in myself if and when altimis comes forward with how he wants us to proceed, I would urge you to mainly design around the mechanics we've decided on and the main timing matters theme first and foremost.

EDIT: altimis snuck the answer in while I was typing.

@altimis Are we allowed to run our own Aztal contests?  It's just that I may have a large amount of free time in the next week or so, which needs filling  



check.

@catowner: just keep posting. I will look at these eventually (I promise), but I'm more focused on starting witht he contests to see where are strengths are and see what we need to make up for it later. So I assume two maybe three weeks would be best for designs like these. But again, I'll keep them up and by golly let them be discussed about and manipulated as needed. I am glad that you are so excited for this. I look forward to your future participation!

@Morgothra: I don't mind, but I'd prefer you run the contests designs by me first, just so I know what direction we'll be heading. Personally, I'll be glad to have someone else takever for this week as I'll be adjusting to a new work schedule, planning for / particiapting in FNM, prerelease and a weekend trip to NY. Again, jsut runthe idea by me, and I'll make comments or tweaks or whatever and you'll have the green light!

Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
Ooh, (Bad Guy Name) sounds scary. I like him.

Catowner, you didn't say how you felt about Reckless. It was the evolved form of my mechanic "Intoxication" - do you also feel that it is "uninteresting"?

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
I forgot that it existed.



Oh. . . [insert sad face with just one silent tear]

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.


No, I figured this would be a debate for a while.

1) Flavorwise, High Noon is a completely anticipated and almost scheduled time every day. It's when the sun is at it's peak in the afternoon sky. Flavorwise it should be easily anticipated (in fact they purposefully hold duels at High Noon when their spellslinging is more potent). I am not at all perturbed by this fact.

2) I would very much like to use the "werewolf" mechanic BUT, that makes it even harder to make good High Noon spells. We'd either need a lot of cheap spells, for powerful High Noon spells; or a lot of cheap High Noon spells, with other spells. As of now niether of those options really appeal to me.

Personally I feel it is fine the way it is. I do feel that it should be predictable (with only a few spells manipulating it's progress.) That said, I would be MORE comfortable using a turn counter, that advances during each upkeep.



That's a fair answer, thanks for the response!

To whoever compared it to Thallids (sorry I only quote Altimis) that's also fair, although putting a spore counter on each is a bigger payoff than removing ALL of them when one goes off, as in the case of Thallids. Still though, all fair answers, I'm happy enough and will be glad to contribute to the set thanks for all the well-thought out responses 

Decks
Modern

Bloody Fangs

Cruel Master

Life Unbound

Survival of the Fittest

EDH

The Indomitable Doran, the Siege Tower

Mimeomancy The Mimeoplasm

Cube

360 Pauper "Colour Basics"

 

 

 

I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

Broken Clock
Artifact (MR)
It is always High Noon

Flavor text or lack there of.




Inspired by what someone said about GM. Forget who. Altimis can we make this one, please? You can tweak it all you want as long as the flavor rings true.

139359831 wrote:
That is a lovely painting of Richard Garfield. It really brings out his feminine side.
One more question; how are we going to handle Opportunity exactly? In contests I've been seeing cards that are turns in with both "opportunity boosts" and "opportunity changes"; i.e. should we have it just boost a card, or actually change the effect? Could we take a vote or something? There should be some coherence probably, rather than having both kinds.

Decks
Modern

Bloody Fangs

Cruel Master

Life Unbound

Survival of the Fittest

EDH

The Indomitable Doran, the Siege Tower

Mimeomancy The Mimeoplasm

Cube

360 Pauper "Colour Basics"

 

 

 

I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I don't know at what time this post should be placed but there are a few things I'd like to address before we go any further...

Now that we are officially going with HNv4 and Reckless I think this set has evolved into something that was originally not planned, which is great, discovery is key to creativity.  We still have the "timing matters"  theme with split second, suspend and opportunity(playtest name, hopefully not the final name) but we have also ventured into the area of "counters matter".  Both HN and Reckless utilize counters.  Not only that, it's safe to assume that this set will be utilizing a fair number of regular +1+1 counters as well unless we make it specifically forbidden.  That means that in order to mine this deep vein of design space we will need to switch our mechanical focus to creatures/spells with a counter heavy theme.  I know this wasn't voted on, but it kind of was...   

ideas: counter inhibitors, counter multipliers, counter creators, counter Lords etc...

Since counters are so prevalant throughout many magic sets it would be nice to have plenty of flavorful cards with open ended counter mechanics, cards which take advantage of the counter theme without restricting them to this set alone.  Interactivity with other cards and sets is a staple of a good set in my opinion.



I don't think we should have +1/+1 counters in this set. Time counters are enough bookkeeping for three sets.



I don't think we should have +1/+1 counters in this set. Time counters are enough bookkeeping for three sets.



Seconded. Especially since we also have Reckless counters.


..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />Here's what the discussion is right now:

High Noon v4 or v4.1:

Three mechanics in Aztal deal specifically with counters Suspend, Reckless, and High Noon. Suspend and High Noon utilize time counters, and Reckless utilize reckless counters. It has been a general worry that we should not mix and match counters, and I agree. However, if you look into this really only two of these mechanics will be "disgusting" when it comes to counters: Reckless and High Noon (Suspend uses time counters in the exile zone). If we can get rid of one of those, counter-wise, I feel a lot of worrying will be alleviated and as a set this would produce a positive result design-wise; I could be wrong, but we'll find out.

An answer has been proposed, it was my idea at first, I scrapped it for something else and then brought it up again. It's what I refer to as High Noon v4.1 now. Here it is:

High Noon v4.1

In it's simplest form: High Noon v4.1 is an ability word, relating to what turn # it is. Every fifth turn of the game, it is High Noon (Not every 5 of your turns, but 5 turns including your opponent's turns).

Officially, there would be a "Turn Counter Card" in the booster pack where a token would be (there will be tokens too). A turn counter card would have five steps (sported in a circle, and they would be colored WUBRG) and you would start at the first one, on turn one, and during each player's upkeep move a counter up one step. When the counter is placed on the 1 again, it is High Noon. This turn counter card can also be utilized by using the back of a Magic card, there are the five gems of color. Start turn one on the white gem and move the counter clockwise around (during each upkeep; it goes WUBRG), when it reaches the white gem again it's High Noon.


Concerns that I've noticed:
+++ If you play with a Turn Counter Card, people will know you're playing with High Noon.
+++ 5 may be too slow.
+++ It takes some design space out of the set, we can no long make French Vanilla creatures simply with High Noon (v4) on them
+++ Designs altering High Noon count will be less elegant than before.

My rebuttle:
+++ What are they going to do about it? If you're playing High Noon they'll find out eventually (usually within the first few turns). Other than in this set, they wouldn't have access to anything that would alter turn counting (which is in itself slightly worrying). I feel this is the least of our concerns.
+++ 5 may be too slow. As many have posted before, it seems that 3 or 4 have the popular votes. By changing it from every 5 of your turns, to every 5 turns altogether. This will increase the amount of High Noons we see each gaeme. Especially in multiplayer.
+++ Now we can't design something as elegant as one of the Spoiled lands from M13 (you know who you are!). I think mirroring that would be moreover exciting, by simply sticking High Noon (the keyword) on things that can be played on turn one so you can start racking up the High Noon count. High Noon v4.1 would remove this from design space.
+++ Related to the previous note, a simple desing now need some ugly words to work right. Examples below:
Break of Dawn -- COST
Instant (X)

Remove all time counters from all permanents and put 3 time counters on each permanent with High Noon.
(Utilizing High Noon v4)
Now becomes...
Break of Dawn -- COST
Instant (X)

Set the turn counter to 4 (This would be R in WUBRG)

These two spells do the same thing (they make it two turns before High Noon.) Sure the second card looks nicer, but it deals with things people haven't seen before. The first card does something everyone already knows how to do. This is a toss up, but something to think about. Here's High Noon v4 for reference.

High Noon v4

High Noon v4 is a keyword and an ability word. The keyword simply states that at the beginning of your upkeep you may put a time counter on that permanent, then if there are 5 or more time counters on it remove all of them and it is High Noon until the end of turn. The ability word is different per card and it triggers while it is High Noon (templating would be that of Threshold and/or Metalcraft).
The keyword and the ability word do not have to appear on the same card. They can, but they are not required to be.



1) Should High Noon be updated (from v4 to v4.1), for the sake of removing time counters from permanents (leaving suspended objects as the only objects utilizing time counters)?
2) Should Opportunity be updated to a specific form? (Ex: It always changes a spell, or it always empowers the spell)
3) Which hopefuls should be accepted into the set? (As of now, I'm looking for cards from the contests because they are more focused on what I'm looking for to define the set; I will begin posting these other cards in the hopeful category once the set has some definition.) I do apologize for that method, but they will be considered once we have a more definite direction for the set.
Hopefuls:

With the hopefuls, I'm looking for any kind of changes to be made. Flavor, to mechanics, to cost, to rarity. Suggest changes, or leave it be. These card WILL make it into the set as is if nobody says anything (I'll say something of course), but that's how this will work. Remember as of Sunday night the three options are ALLOWED (this makes it in), HOLD (this needs more work), and CUT (this doesn't make it in). Until then we shall TWEAK, to make them all as "allowed" as possible.

SmellyPainter's: Hardbitten Guard

Hardbitten Guard --
Creature – Human guard (U)

Flash, Split Second

“Come with me to catch your dinner. Go elsewhere to catch your death”
3 / 5

=====xxxxx=====

Morgothra's: Raging Sandstorm

Raging Sandstorm --
Creature - Elemental (U)

Reckless (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay [COST]. If you do, remove all reckless counters from this; otherwise put a reckless counter on it.)
At the beginning of your combat phase, Raging Sandstorm deals 1 damage to each other creature and each player for each Reckless counter on it.

More than the bandits, the Reavers and the Riftswept beasts, in the wilds of Aztal it is the desert itself you must fear.
4 / 4

=====xxxxx=====
I started it at Uncommon rarity.

Morgothra's: Arrogant Duelist

Arrogant Duelist --
Creature - Human Spellslinger (U)

First Strike, High Noon (At the beginning of your upkeep you may put a time counter on this permanent. Then if there are five or more time counters on it, remove all time counters from all permanents with High Noon. It is High Noon until the end of turn.)

High Noon - When it becomes High Noon, Arrogant Duel fights target creature.

You can buy many things in Sa'Gev, power, information, amusement and even Death.
3 / 2

=====xxxxx=====
I started it at Uncommon rarity.

vlord's: Patience Goblin


Patient Goblin --
Creature - Goblin (C)

Suspend 2 - (Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay and exile it with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost. It has haste.)
When Patient Goblin enters the battlefield, if it was cast from exile, draw a card.

It's further proof that everything of Aztal is backwards - whoever heard of a patient Goblin?

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====
Tweaked the name, and I started it at Common rarity.

CKY's: Pickpocket


Pickpocket --
Instant (C)

Draw a card.
Opportunity – If you cast this in response to a spell an opponent controls, draw two cards instead.

"You make it almost too easy."
–Monse-gos-Callas, viashino grifter


=====xxxxx=====


CKY's: Sundown Haint

Sundown Haint
--
Creature – Wraith (C)

Reckless (At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay . If you do, remove all reckless counters from this permanent. Otherwise, put a reckless counter on it.)
Sundown Haint gets +2/-2 as long as it has a reckless counter on it.

When Sa'Gev slips into its cold, moonless nights, the desert wind howls and rattles with sinister purpose.

3 / 3

=====xxxxx=====

nukeshooter's: Empower Sundial

Empowered Sundial --
Artifact (C)

:T:: Add one mana of any colour to your mana pool.

High Noon - As long as it is High Noon, whenever Empowered Sundial is tapped for mana, it produces an additional .

=====xxxxx=====
I tweaked the name; and modified the abilities (they are the same, but more accurately worded, I think).

nukeshooter's: Lurking Thief

Lurking Thief --
Creature - Salamander Rogue (R)

Reckless (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay . If you do, remove all reckless counters from this; otherwise put a reckless counter on it.)
As long as Lurking Thief has a reckless counter on it, it has defender.
Whenever you pay Lurking Thief's reckless cost, gain control of target permanent with a converted mana cost of X until end of turn. Untap that permanent. It gains haste until the end of turn. X is the amount of reckless counters removed from Lurking Thief this turn.

1 / 3

=====xxxxx=====
Tweaked the wording. I wasn't sure about the last ability, but I tweaked it as well. Here is the original wording:
Whenever you remove reckless counters from Lurking Thief, gain control of target permanent with converted mana cost equal to that number of reckless counters until end of turn. Untap that permanent. It gains haste until end of turn.

Sebanovich's: Aether Crow

Aether Crow --
Creature - Bird (C)

Flying
When Aether Crow enters the battlefield, exile target creature card and put 2 time counters on it. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Suspend 1 - (Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay and exile it with one time counter on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.  It has haste.)

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====
I started it at Common rarity.

Kfir's: Roaming Pyromancer

Roaming Pyromancer --
Creature- Human Wizard (U)

High Noon (At the beginning of your upkeep you may put a time counter on this permanent. Then if there are five or more time counters on it, remove all time counters from all permanents with High Noon. It is High Noon until the end of turn.)
:T:: Roaming Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player. If it is High Noon, it deals 3 damage instead.
High Noon - :T:: Roaming Pyromancer deals 3 damage to target creature of player. Activate this ability only if it is High Noon.

0 / 1

=====xxxxx=====
I tweaked the wording, and I started it at Uncommon rarity. I split the ability into two abilities so as to allow a player visually, to see that something happens differently during High Noon.

magicpablo666's: Showdown

Showdown --
Instant (U)

High Noon - As long as it is High Noon, you may pay instead of Showdown's casting cost.
Target creature fights another target creature.

"This's been a long time coming, too long if you ask me."
-Gnorik, Sa'Chir Marshall
-

=====xxxxx=====
I tweaked the wording, and I started it at Uncommon rarity.

Charismatix807's: Sa'Osha Alchemist

Sa'Osha Alchemist --
Creature - Human Wizard (C)

Reckless (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay . If you do, remove all reckless counters from this. Otherwise, put a reckless counter on it.)
At the beginning of your end step, if there are no reckless counters on Sa'Osha Alchemist, draw a card.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====
I tweaked the wording.

zoomzilla's: High Noon Viashino

High Noon Viashino
--
Creature - Viashino (C)

High Noon (At the beginning of your upkeep you may put a time counter on this permanent. Then if there are five or more time counters on it, remove all time counters from all permanents with High Noon. It is High Noon until the end of turn.)
High Noon - As long as it is High Noon, all creatures you control must be blocked if able.

2 / 1

=====xxxxx=====
I tweaked the wording.

an_endless_epidemic's: Pay Day

Pay Day --
Sorcery (U)

Draw two cards. Exile Pay Day with 4 time counters on it.
Suspend 4 -
(Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay and exile it with four time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)

=====xxxxx=====
I started it at Uncommon rarity.

Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
I know it's way too late and I know I've been saying before, but doesn't anyone see the many problems with Reckless?  There is the counter thing, that I talked about in an early thread.  Then there is the fact that it's similar, not only to High Noon, but also to opportunity, with the "if ---, then ---".  And to finish, it has nothing to do with time.  For me, it's a mish mash of the other mechanics, without being related to the set.
worship the horn
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28209491/Conch_Horn
Wait, why is the bad guy going to be ? Why not make the conflict about the battle between White and Red, or maybe Blue and Red?
Okeydokey, let's look at the baddies from the past few blocks:
Innistrad:  griselbrand (b)
Scars:  phyrexia (bug at first)
Zendikar:  Eldrazi (jund colors)
Alara:  bolas (grixis)
Lorwyn/shadowmoor:  Oona (u/b)

Guess which color they all have in common? 



Mmhmm. And we have to follow this? There's never really been a Red vs. Enemy block to date, and I'd love to see one. After all, conformity vs. freedom is a big thing in a lot of stories, and Westerns certainly lend themselves to Red outlaws (the Black ones are too busy going to law school and buying the homes out from beneath old widows).


Mmhmm. And we have to follow this? There's never really been a Red vs. Enemy block to date, and I'd love to see one. After all, conformity vs. freedom is a big thing in a lot of stories, and Westerns certainly lend themselves to Red outlaws (the Black ones are too busy going to law school and buying the homes out from beneath old widows).



I like this. 
Variety is the spice of life, and hey, it certainly would shake things up a little. Nothing saying that you couldn't have a black antihero instead of your "required black villain".
Brash Spellslinger :U::R:
Creature-Human Spellslinger

Reckless :R: (At the beginning of your upkeep you may pay :R: . If you do, remove all reckless counters from this; otherwise put a reckless counter on it.)

As long as Brash Spellslinger has a reckless counter, it has Shroud must attack each turn if able.

3/1
“Come on, is that all you’ve got!”-unknown spellslinger’s last words.

Sunburnt Rogue
Creature-Human Rogue
Flash
Opportunity - If you cast this during your opponents turn, it enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters.

1/2
It takes a hard type of man to survive in the desert for any length of time.

Desert Shaman
Creature-Reaver Wizard
Tap~ put a 1/1 white Spirit creature token into play

2/2
some say they summon the spirits of their ancestors to protect their holy places from outsiders, others say that they are insane.


So these are all of the various cards I have created for the set. I would appreciate any comments on them!

Honestly?
I'd be very suprised if someone didn't design, as you say, an 8cmc legendary black creature, 3 abilities, no removal resistance, blah blah blah etc ho hum yadda yadda yadda.

But NONE of that guarantees it would be accepted into the final set. 
I know it's way too late and I know I've been saying before, but doesn't anyone see the many problems with Reckless?  There is the counter thing, that I talked about in an early thread.  Then there is the fact that it's similar, not only to High Noon, but also to opportunity, with the "if ---, then ---".  And to finish, it has nothing to do with time.  For me, it's a mish mash of the other mechanics, without being related to the set.



I'm not trying to come across as a jerk or anything, but could you provide us with some examples of these problems; cardwise?

We all see the counter thing, it has been talked about and acknowledged and such. I still don't see that as a major problem (yet).
I do understand what you're saying with the High Noon, and the Opportunity, but I'm not sure that that's a severe enough issue to cut a mechanic. I need some proof of complexity between the three, before I make any final judgements about it (and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt other's opinions either).

creature - TYPE

High Noon - creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 as long as it is High Noon.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

First Strike, Reckless
creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 and loses first strike as long as it has a reckless counter on it.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

Flash
Opportunity - If you cast this during your opponents turn, it enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it.
(Forgive the fact that this involves +1/+1 counters)

Looking at these three examples, this shows exactly how similar they are. They are extremely similar. What do they have in common though, if you really look at it? Timing. The timing of these cards is vital, and different, but they all require specific timing to work properly.

Of the three, the High Noon creature is the weakest, only triggering every 2 and a half turns. But this timing is different than the reckless and opportunity cards; this timing is based on how much time has elapsed.
Of the three, the Reckless creature is (probably) the strongest. It's either very big, or it has first strike (depending on what you choose). The timing is based on the upkeep. This card changes (almost always) durign your upkeep.
Of the three, the Opportunity creature is next strongest. It's either always very big, or always not big. The timing with this card is based on turns, whether it's your turn, or your opponents turn.

With these three cards, despite being very similar, rely on different key times to work properly. I particularly enjoy having that option in the set. You could have three different decks the High Noon decks, Reckless decks, and Opportunity decks. They can (but don't necessarily have to) work simlar, but be based off different timing. To me that makes it fun. You could have the same colors as another deck, but function completely different; or not. I feel this is a strength for the set, not a weakness that needs to be removed.

If you still disagree with me, just bring up some examples of such. This is a valid point that should be acknowledged.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
A recent interest has been brought up as to the plot of the set (and/or block). Here is how defining the plot of the set will work:

First, I asked Morgothra (the world-designer) to create a world that would have conflict. Not that it was in the middle of it, but that it would shortly have it. The first set will be mostly building up to the conflict.

That said, we need to discover exactly WHAT that conflisct is, and HOW we decide to lead up to it. I requested that Morgothra leave that to us for the sake of it being a community thread. Certainly, he has influenced his world in what the conflict might be, but that's not 100%. That could be a smaller conflict unrelated (or compeltely related) to the more terrible conflict to come. In short, it's up to us to really define the future of this set, and the sets to come.

The conflict (as I interpreted it) would be that a mirror world (or at least mirror versions of ourselves) began to take over the plane little by litte. The Reavers attempted to control these mirror things (Dybbuk), but something went wrong (causing a planarwide catastrophe); leaving the plane the way it is now.

My interpretation is that these Dybbuks (reflections) had already begun infiltrating Aztal and sabotaged the entire process (thus causing The Event). This increased the Dybbuk control of Aztal while the inhabitants were left fending for themselves and reajusting to the new time warps and such. I see it that the more Nomadic reavers, are almost entirely reflections (Dybbuks), while those belonging to cities are almost entirely real. [That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing quite a few clone spells or reflections in the set] The conflict comes down to determining which population is real and which population is false. There will be two (or more) copies of (almost) everyone running around, and nobody will know which version is on which side (and for some reason the reflections all have a way of deiscering each other, but we don't know this yet). Many towns shut down, and don't let people in or out. They begin killing off everyone until there is only one copy of them left. The plane is beginning to fall apart into a rebellion against an enemy they can't even define. Once the cities have "calmly" prepared themselves, the next set begins.

Next Set:

I see many battles and conflicts in this set. It's in this set where we discover how to tell the difference between a reflection and ourselves. And we begin to see spells that can destroy just refelctions now. The plane, now able to discern friend from foe (and realizing the odds), have to scramble together in order to fend for themselves. This set has more legendary creatures than the first set as the leaders of this plane get seriously involved.


Final Set:

The conlict begins to get resolved, but something else comes. We realize that the reflections were actually "running from something". They came to Aztal for "help" (a new start). We begin to combine forces, and travel into the Reflection world to combat this enemy. In the reflection world things are VERY different causing a lot of changes to happen in card design and even set design. In this set I feel High Noon would have no effect (the reflections world doesn't have a High Noon). Anyways, the staple in this set is that everything is completely different (without doing a complete rehaul like Avacyn Restored did). In this set we dive into emotions a lot, considering people have been battling reflections of themselves, but are now fighting alongside them, it gets complicated.


That's my "brief" interpretation of the future of Aztal. My overall summary would be that Doctor Who episode(s): The Rebel Flesh, and The Almost People (how the are the real people and their clones, something happens and they begin to fight [the clones are fighting to be alive, the people are fighting to not lose their lives to the clones. The real conflict is that the clones ARE the people exactly. They have the same memories, the same bodies. The same everything. But the actual people don't want to share their families, for example.]. Something will happen that will kill them all. In the end they work together.). In my mind that is the closest representation to this block that I can think about.

Personally I want a white bad guy.
A red good guy.
and I don't have preferences with the rest
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
Sounds like the perfect setup for Blue vs. Red to me.

Personally I want a white bad guy.
A red good guy.
and I don't have preferences with the rest



I like the set idea, and I think that for the white bad guy, you could have someone trying to control the reflections somehow. Someone who doesn't see them as what they are, just as a danger to the society. He is not evil neccesarily, he is just trying to protect his people, at the cost of the reflections.
I know it's way too late and I know I've been saying before, but doesn't anyone see the many problems with Reckless?  There is the counter thing, that I talked about in an early thread.  Then there is the fact that it's similar, not only to High Noon, but also to opportunity, with the "if ---, then ---".  And to finish, it has nothing to do with time.  For me, it's a mish mash of the other mechanics, without being related to the set.



I'm not trying to come across as a jerk or anything, but could you provide us with some examples of these problems; cardwise?

We all see the counter thing, it has been talked about and acknowledged and such. I still don't see that as a major problem (yet).
I do understand what you're saying with the High Noon, and the Opportunity, but I'm not sure that that's a severe enough issue to cut a mechanic. I need some proof of complexity between the three, before I make any final judgements about it (and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt other's opinions either).

creature - TYPE

High Noon - creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 as long as it is High Noon.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

First Strike, Reckless
creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 and loses first strike as long as it has a reckless counter on it.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

Flash
Opportunity - If you cast this during your opponents turn, it enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it.
(Forgive the fact that this involves +1/+1 counters)

Looking at these three examples, this shows exactly how similar they are. They are extremely similar. What do they have in common though, if you really look at it? Timing. The timing of these cards is vital, and different, but they all require specific timing to work properly.

Of the three, the High Noon creature is the weakest, only triggering every 2 and a half turns. But this timing is different than the reckless and opportunity cards; this timing is based on how much time has elapsed.
Of the three, the Reckless creature is (probably) the strongest. It's either very big, or it has first strike (depending on what you choose). The timing is based on the upkeep. This card changes (almost always) durign your upkeep.
Of the three, the Opportunity creature is next strongest. It's either always very big, or always not big. The timing with this card is based on turns, whether it's your turn, or your opponents turn.

With these three cards, despite being very similar, rely on different key times to work properly. I particularly enjoy having that option in the set. You could have three different decks the High Noon decks, Reckless decks, and Opportunity decks. They can (but don't necessarily have to) work simlar, but be based off different timing. To me that makes it fun. You could have the same colors as another deck, but function completely different; or not. I feel this is a strength for the set, not a weakness that needs to be removed.

If you still disagree with me, just bring up some examples of such. This is a valid point that should be acknowledged.


What does it have to do with time matters if it always happen in the upkeep?

The exemples you provided are sufficient enough to see the "if ---, then ---" mechanics are too clogged.

worship the horn
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28209491/Conch_Horn
Show
I know it's way too late and I know I've been saying before, but doesn't anyone see the many problems with Reckless?  There is the counter thing, that I talked about in an early thread.  Then there is the fact that it's similar, not only to High Noon, but also to opportunity, with the "if ---, then ---".  And to finish, it has nothing to do with time.  For me, it's a mish mash of the other mechanics, without being related to the set.



I'm not trying to come across as a jerk or anything, but could you provide us with some examples of these problems; cardwise?

We all see the counter thing, it has been talked about and acknowledged and such. I still don't see that as a major problem (yet).
I do understand what you're saying with the High Noon, and the Opportunity, but I'm not sure that that's a severe enough issue to cut a mechanic. I need some proof of complexity between the three, before I make any final judgements about it (and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt other's opinions either).

creature - TYPE

High Noon - creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 as long as it is High Noon.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

First Strike, Reckless
creature - TYPE gets +2/+2 and loses first strike as long as it has a reckless counter on it.

=====xxxxx=====

creature - TYPE

Flash
Opportunity - If you cast this during your opponents turn, it enters the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it.
(Forgive the fact that this involves +1/+1 counters)

Looking at these three examples, this shows exactly how similar they are. They are extremely similar. What do they have in common though, if you really look at it? Timing. The timing of these cards is vital, and different, but they all require specific timing to work properly.

Of the three, the High Noon creature is the weakest, only triggering every 2 and a half turns. But this timing is different than the reckless and opportunity cards; this timing is based on how much time has elapsed.
Of the three, the Reckless creature is (probably) the strongest. It's either very big, or it has first strike (depending on what you choose). The timing is based on the upkeep. This card changes (almost always) durign your upkeep.
Of the three, the Opportunity creature is next strongest. It's either always very big, or always not big. The timing with this card is based on turns, whether it's your turn, or your opponents turn.

With these three cards, despite being very similar, rely on different key times to work properly. I particularly enjoy having that option in the set. You could have three different decks the High Noon decks, Reckless decks, and Opportunity decks. They can (but don't necessarily have to) work simlar, but be based off different timing. To me that makes it fun. You could have the same colors as another deck, but function completely different; or not. I feel this is a strength for the set, not a weakness that needs to be removed.

If you still disagree with me, just bring up some examples of such. This is a valid point that should be acknowledged.


What does it have to do with time matters if it always happen in the upkeep?

The exemples you provided are sufficient enough to see the "if ---, then ---" mechanics are too clogged.



Reckless has the case of timing matters (not so much in the example I posted) put with stackable effects. If you have a 3/3 that gets +1/-1 for each reckless counter on it, and it's already a 4/2; deciding whether you should revert it back to a 3/3 or continue to make it a 5/1 is a vital decision to make. But that's not all, this becomes vital with any stackable effects. There can be effects where you lose keywords (other than reckless) for each reckless counter on it; a cumulative reckless cost ( Reckless :XM: ) for each reckless counter on it; maybe even have creatures swap control depending on the amount of reckless counters on it. I feel there is enough design space around it involving the timing matters theme to allow it to stay; even if we haven't quite touched upon those designs just yet.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
I've been pretty boring on bringing up problems lately, so I will back you up this time Altimis. Reckless is awesome, tons of design space and lot's of critical timing decisions.





I actually really really like the mechanic.























I want to marry it. 

Decks
Modern

Bloody Fangs

Cruel Master

Life Unbound

Survival of the Fittest

EDH

The Indomitable Doran, the Siege Tower

Mimeomancy The Mimeoplasm

Cube

360 Pauper "Colour Basics"

 

 

 

I am Blue/Green
I am Blue/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.

 

I made this quite a while ago so forgive me if I submitted it elsewhere:
Fragile Paradise
Land
:T:: Add to your mana pool.
:T:: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. Use this ability only if Fragile Paradise entered the battlefield this turn.

Frenzied Settlers :R:
When ~ enters the battlefield it gets +2/-2 until end of turn.
1/3
Times like this it's best to stay out of the picture until they cool off.

Fleeting Genius :1U:  (U for 2 cards? heck it seems kinda red)
Sorcery
Draw three cards. At the end of your turn put the cards in your hand on the bottom of your library in any order.


Also I ran a contest where rabble527 submitted a card. It's not mine to submit but if you guys like it we could always ask rabble527.
Timestealer :B:
Creature - Spirit
Vanishing 3
Time Stealer’s power and toughness are equal to the number of time counters on it.
Sacrifice a creature: Put a time counter on Time Stealer.
It would be a shame to let such a long life be wasted by someone who won’t appreciate it.
Just for everyone to know...

The Community Set Thread List o' Cards has been updated. I won't "Bump"date the thread until everything is completely up-to-date. Thanks for your participation. Also, I'll create the next contest as soon as I'm finished. Keep an eye out!
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
New Discussion Post!

1) Should High Noon be tweaked?
High Noon Situtaion:

Should High Noon (the keyword) trigger during each player's upkeep, not just yours? For example:
At the beginning of each upkeep you may put a time counter on this permanent, then if there are 5 or more time counters on it, remove all time counters from all permanents. It is High Noon until the end of turn.

Or should it stay the way it is?

Tweaking it increases the amount of High Noons per game. Not tweaking it, makes it a more rare occasion.


2) Should Opportunity be more specific?
Opportunity Situation:

Simply should it trigger during a specific phase, or step? Or should we allow variability like we've been doing?
Variability allows for more design space. Specificity allows for better memory and gameplay.


3) Which hopefuls should make it into the set, get changed, or get scrapped?
Hopefuls:

catowner's Vitality:

Vitality --
Instant (C)

Target creature gets +3/+3 until the end of turn.
Opportunity - If you cast this during an opponent's turn, you gain life equal to that creature's toughness.

=====xxxxx=====

I started it at Common rarity. I am considering bringing it to Uncommon.

ConfusedAsUsual's Accelerate:

Accelerate --
Instant (R)

End this phase. (Exile all spells and abilities on the stack, including this card. Creatures, if they are in combat, are removed from combat.)

=====xxxxx=====

I started it at Rare rarity. I am considering changing it to "step or phase." I am also thinking of changing the name to "Momentary Lapse" (for better flavor).

Jessica_Morgan's Shoot From the Hip:

Shoot from the Hip --
Instant (U)

Shoot from the Hip deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
Opportunity - If you cast Shoot from the Hip during any other player's upkeep, destroy target permanent at random instead.

=====xxxxx=====

I tweaked the wording. I am considering changing the name and/or the second ability.

nukeshooter's Marshall's Instinct

Marshal's Instinct --
Instant (U)

Split Second
Return target Creature or Aura that was cast this turn to its owner's hand.

"Sun's up on time, you're living fine,
But rises early, the world's gone squirrely"
- Aztal children's rhyme-

=====xxxxx=====

I corrected the name. I am considering making it target "permanents" instead. I am considering it target "permanents that entered the battlefield this turn" instead.

Sebanovich's Khaal Timetraveller:

Khaal Timetraveler --
Creature - Cat Mystic (R)

While you're searching your library, you may cast Khaal Timetraveler from your library.
: Shuffle Khaal Timetraveler into its owner's library.

1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

I corrected the name. I started it at Rare rarity. I am considering it have it's power level increased.

Inspired by Daytime Lantern's Territorialism and altimis' Aether Storm:

Aether Storm --
Enchantment (R)

Flash
Whenever a player casts a spell during your turn, exile it with a time counter on it. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.

altimis' Break of Dawn:

Break of Dawn -- 
Instant (U)

Remove all time counters from permanents with High Noon. Then put 3 time counters on each permanent with High Noon.

=====xxxxx=====

I made this card. I have no proposed changes.

altimis' Onset of Dusk:

Onset of Dusk -- 
Instant (U)

Remove all time counters from permanents with High Noon. Then put a time counter on each permanent with High Noon.

=====xxxxx=====

I made this card. I have no proposed changes.

catowner's Verdant Druid:

Verdant Druid --
Creature - Human Druid (R)

Whenever an opponent casts an artifact or enchantment spell, you may put a 1/1 green saproling creature token onto the battlefield.

Random quote from a verdant druid about magic being evil and how the reflections are all the mage's fault.
1 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

I started this at rare.

magicpablo666's Barren Conservatory:

Barren Conservatory --
Land (R)

Barren Conservatory doesn't untap during your untap step.
:T:: Add one colorless mana to your mana pool.
, : For each counter on target permanent, put another of those counters on that permanent.

=====xxxxx=====

I started it at rare. I feel the costs might need changing.

magicpablo666's Naive Greenhorn:

Naive Greenhorn --
Creature - Human Soldier (U)

Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, Naive Greenhorn gets -1/-1 until end of turn.

"But, dear God - what kinda man has feelings for a bovine creature? It makes me sick - back at academy, they never said anything about this!"
3 / 3

=====xxxxx=====

I started it at uncommon. I feel it should only be affected by opponent's creatures.

ConfusedAsUsual's Provoked Spellslinger:

Provoked Spellslinger --
Creature - Human Wizard (U)

Reckless - Draw a card (At the beginning of your upkeep you may draw a card. If you do, remove all reckless counters from this; otherwise put a reckless counter on it.)
As long as Provoke Spellslinger does not have a Reckless counter on it, it gets +0/+2 and has "At the end of your turn, discard two cards."

3 / 1

=====xxxxx=====

I started it as an uncommon. I feel that the reckless ability needs tweaking. I feel (and this is probably just me) that it should be a 2 / 1, to match other wizards (m12 cycle, snapcaster... they tend to like being 2 / 1's) OR have the cost be (not both).

vlord's Embrace of the Aged:

Embrace of the Aged --
Enchantment (R)

Permanents with High Noon you control have Hexproof.

"For you to live long on Aztal, you have to give time something and in return it will give you something back."
-Legendary Green Creature with High Noon-

=====xxxxx=====

I started it as Rare. This card needs more spunk, I suggest a way maybe to manipulate time counters from High Nooners and/or Suspenders.



EDIT: Also, I altered Sa'Osha Alchemist's casting cost. for repeatable card draw seemed too good, even if there was the price tag for tha card draw. I increased the cost to . It is still a common.

EDIT: Added Hopefuls! ***11.07.2012***
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
I propose:

1) High Noon should be tweaked to each upkeep. I feel it should be allowed to be more common in games. Considering it's a not evergreen mechanic, we want to utilize it as often as possible.

2) Opportunity should be left the way it is. Opportunity should just indicate (visually) that something happens when you cast this spell at the right time.

3) TBD...
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.
09/07/2012 Errata: New card submissions should be submitted to the [FFA Designs] Community Set - Aztal thread. This is to keep clutter off of this thread as much as possible. Discussion on cards (here) should only pertain to cards in the Hopefuls category. Thanks!

NOTE: This change should have been errata'd in all of the other Community Set threads in their OP's. If not, this trumps the old ruling.
Official archnemesis of magicpablo666 Host of Reactionary Proud owner of "The Terrible Cube" The altimis Archive I'm baking lands!!! Beginner of GROMA
Notable Quotables:
58060728 wrote:
I carefully examine the walls of the room in a determined effort to not follow the GMs plot.

Recommended changes:

ConfusedAsUsual's Accelerate - change cost to :U::U:. Compare with Sundial of the infinite.

Jessica_Morgan's Shoot From the Hip - Yah, definately change the second effect. Choosing a permanent at random is always annoying.

nukeshooter's Marshall's Instinct  - Either reduce the cost to :U: or change it to any nonland permanent but I'd perefer the first. As is it's a more restricted Unsommon in 90% of situations. I'd consider expanding it to artifacts and dropping the aura bit.

Aether Storm - Needs to be more upside oriented. I recommend making it affect all spells cast by anyone on their opponents turn or even whenever a player casts a spell on their own turn if you feel adventurous.