[M13-ICD] Spelltwine

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Very fun EDH card. I'm gonna need a foil of this baby.
Love the card, but the awkward wording makes my inner Melvin cry a little bit.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
Awful.
Another good blue card for EDH that is terrible in all other formats including limited.

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This card is so boring to me, but at least Mutilate is getting reprinted!  

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Commander fun!  Pretty bad in Standard.  Probably not great in Limited.
I think this wins for "Rare that is most likely to be picked last in every draft... ever."
This would have been nice a couple years ago, for Cruel Control mirrors.
A nice card for mill builds. Recast a milling spell or something else while snagging one of the opponent's top spells.

Another trick with this card is to discard Sorcery/Instant that costs 7+ mana and play them with this spell.
Get three of them into your graveyard then cast the fourth for some sort of Storm/Cascade shenanigans?
So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?

Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision.

So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?


Yes.
Must... try... worldfire and this. Just need to find other cards that work well with worldfire. Prolly a 'merica build (or even just U/W self mill, but faithless looting works too well with the goals of that deck)
Iunno, this has potential.
Definitely an edh card.  Way to expensive for any serious play.
Definitely an edh card.  Way to expensive for any serious play.



EDH is pretty serious. And I hear some people play life or death casual atop motorcycles.
Card games on motorcycles?
Card games on motorcycles?



THIS ISN'T JUST A GAME ANY MORE!
Do you get to choose what order the spells are cast? Can I use your DoJ first and then my Army of the Damned?
You probably can choose, yeah.
this I like !
If my opponent only has a rewind in his or her graveyard, can I target it and not counter my own spell?

If yes = fail.

If no = meh, I wish they just reprinted a better blue variant of sins of the past.

I can see me trying my damnest to target my worldfire and anything my opponent has of a deal damage / put a token onto the board FTW.
not good.
Maybe a cool combo card?
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Seems lackluster to me at first glance, but I'm sure it will have its uses.
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Board Snippets
147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?


Yes.



No. Not by the usual meaning of fizzle. You can't cast this unless you have legal targets in both your own and an opponents yards. But it has more than one target so it will only fizzle (countered for having no legal targets) is both cards in both graveyards are no longer targetable.


Seems like a decent redundancy to Knowledge Exploitation.  

3DH4LIF3

So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?


Yes.



No. Not by the usual meaning of fizzle. You can't cast this unless you have legal targets in both your own and an opponents yards. But it has more than one target so it will only fizzle (countered for having no legal targets) is both cards in both graveyards are no longer targetable.


Seems like a decent redundancy to Knowledge Exploitation.  



Yes, if this spell is forced to be played or if somebody is being tricky with withered wretch. Everybody's right!
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Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?


Yes.



No. Not by the usual meaning of fizzle. You can't cast this unless you have legal targets in both your own and an opponents yards. But it has more than one target so it will only fizzle (countered for having no legal targets) is both cards in both graveyards are no longer targetable.


Seems like a decent redundancy to Knowledge Exploitation.  



Yes, if this spell is forced to be played or if somebody is being tricky with withered wretch. Everybody's right!



No. If the spell is forced to be played and the opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery, the spell can't be cast, so it won't be and won't end up fizzling. With Withered Witch, just removing the opponent's card won't cause it to fizzle but removing both targets will.

MTG Rules Advisor
 

If I have, say, temporal mastery in my graveyard and my opponent has cancel in his, and there are no other targets, when I cast this can I avoid having to cancel my own temporal mastery?
If I have, say, temporal mastery in my graveyard and my opponent has cancel in his, and there are no other targets, when I cast this can I avoid having to cancel my own temporal mastery?


Yes. It doesn't specify which order you put the two copies on the stack, so you can have the Temporal Mastery resolve first.
If I have, say, temporal mastery in my graveyard and my opponent has cancel in his, and there are no other targets, when I cast this can I avoid having to cancel my own temporal mastery?


Yes. It doesn't specify which order you put the two copies on the stack, so you can have the Temporal Mastery resolve first.



Don't you need to choose a spell for cancel to target before it can go on the stack? In other words, you would need to ensure that there is a spell on the stack for cancel to target which would mean putting temporal mastery (which was milled / discarded?) on the stack first, then you put cancel on, targeting temporal mastery? Because the order of spell casting / copying would mean that you can't actually have cancel target itself.
I'm hoping that you can choose the order, as Grumman says, but If I understand correctly the copies go on to the stack simultaneously. So either (a) cancel can't go onto the stack because there are no spells there or (b) they go onto the stack and cancel 'sees' temporal mastery as its only target, but the order is chosen by the controller of spelltwine.
So.......this fizzles if your opponent doesn't have an instant or sorcery in their graveyard?


Yes.

*facepalm*

The flavor's pretty weird, but spells like these are like that.

GW

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Well...this sounds fun. 
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If I have, say, temporal mastery in my graveyard and my opponent has cancel in his, and there are no other targets, when I cast this can I avoid having to cancel my own temporal mastery?


Yes. It doesn't specify which order you put the two copies on the stack, so you can have the Temporal Mastery resolve first.



would you also be able to have the cancel target the spelltwine? Spelltwine should still be resolving on the stack as you cast the copies and have to choose targets for them. Much like you can use Swerve on a counter spell to target swerve then fizzle.

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