Movement Speed

You know, this contant level of speed for everybody is pretty boring...and doesn't give anybody any way, other than class abilities in previous editions, to develop it further than it starts out.

In some other games, movement speed is actually a value calculated from character attributes. This gives a nice way for a player to build the character to move faster without the need for non-mundane or specialized training means. If I had to pull together a general calculation for speed using material available during character creation, I'd combine DEX (general speed and reaction time) and CON (endurance) scores and modify movement appropriately by race.

If the average human, elf, orc, etc has speed 30...and the average combined DEX/CON scores is 20, make it so those races add 10 to the calculation.
Dwarves would be just as simple...add 5 to the combined attributes.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Simple. Plus, it would allow players with high attributes in both to move faster than their average counterparts. And, it would allow for developing speed over time. 
I must say I dont know what u want to achive with this topic?

To make characters with better attributes to come out better? And no other to catch up with them?

It's a really an old dilemma and nicely solved I would say, with characters be of the same speed. Combat and board wise ofc. It matters what they choose to to do, not their inherent abilities.

What are you refering to? Making some races/classes inherently better at outmaneuvering you? 

Or are u simply refering to a "basic roleplaying" mechanic?

 
If the system is meant to be used as a Mind's Eye Theatre system, then the need for rounded numbers is out the window. The straight 30 land speed is simple and useful for battlegrid, and a bit for Mind's Eye...but it's also unrealistic. Personally, I walk faster than many people I know, and that was before I had any military training...I know somebody who walks faster than I do, and I'm slowed down a tiny bit from a persistant limp.  So it's not really reasonable to stick with a 30' base speed when one person can go 31', another 28' and yet another 37'. For regular movement, this would matter very little...since most groups travel at the speed of the slowest person in the group...but for tactical situations, it would make a difference.

Does it make people with better atributes better in one way? Yes...but they've kinda earned that by having the better attributes.

This isn't about making a race or class better/faster. It's about making the individual from that race/class more individualized in how quickly they can move from Point A to Point B.

Having speed based on DEX+CON+(racial mod) is at least a little more realistic than a flat 30' speed. It won't make monumental differences to the game, but it has the ability to let people feel more like their character is an individual than the possible clone standing next to him/her. It'll also give a tiny bit of variance to how people (NPCs) move about their daily tasks. It could be easier to spot people of certain demeanors based on how quickly they move and how they move from one spot to another. There are plenty of potential benefits to changing from a flat rate of movement to something more personalized.
More realistic, maybe, but what does it add? Not much. What does it take away? The simplicity of round 5' measurements. Which is good for miniatures, but it's still good for theatre of the mind, too, since, generally, people like round numbers

I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.

It's often overlooked how much a single foot of distance can change things, especially on a 1":5' battlegrid...however, for simplicity's sake I understand where you're coming from.

I still think that a lot of the solutions that have worked in the past could get a revamp into something more individual for the players...especially with the more-individualistic approach that has been seen for the characters via the race/class/background/theme setup. 
Well, while the Dex/Con combination (basically what they do in GURPS) works well enough in that game, I don't think it's the answer here.

I'm not a big fan of the flat move either, and if you wanted to, you could simply add some additional move based on Con modifier on top of the base move. If it applies to everything with a Con score and didn't offer TOO much extra movement, then it wouldn't remain fairly balanced. Also, I don't really like the idea of adding any more budget to the value of Dex. It's already the move versatile and objectively valuable stat in the game. I doesn't need any more love.

Doing it that way would also offer the guys in heavy armor a way to offset part or all of the otherwise arbitrary movement penalty they suffer for wearing it.

It is an idea. I'm not sure I really like it, but I think it'd be more functional than further inflating the value of Dex.
I agree...which is part of the reason I figured it'd work best with a combination of the two.

High DEX/low CON: You'd essentially be moving in "spurts" of rapid movement folowed by significant "breaks" or downtime for a second wind.
High CON/low DEX: You'd go at an overall slower pace, but with less overall downtime.
Overall, they'd be running, effectively, the same speed. 

It keeps things from being heavily DEX or CON reliant, and makes/keeps both options attractive to players.

I was running with the GURPS idea on this line of thought, since it's a speed system that's already put together. I don't think that D&D should clone that speed system...but it should put some stock into the individuality that it gives.

Shoot, even if it copied GURPS almost directly....[(DEX + CON)/4 rounddown to the nearest whole number] would show the number of 5' increments that could be moved. It would put the average human (10 DEX, 10 CON) at a movement rate of 25. It's not shaby...though somebody super-lucky (18 DEX, 18 CON) would end up with a ridiculous 45 move. Which doesn't seem attractive unless you're a power-hungry min/maxer.

If you simply add the two attrbutes together, apply racial bonuses, and call it a speed score...you end up with something a little more sane. The same 10/10 human would have a move of 20 (not far removed from the , while the 18/18 twink would have a more reasonable move of 36.

There are ways to make the system work, and to make it simple....I just hope that the devs consider it an pull something together. It just doesn't make sense that somebody who's swifter and hardier than his buddy would move at the same speed. 
Im exploring how to accommodate speed in meters (yards).

Tentatively, it seems useful to make each round very brief (3.6 seconds), so the average speed of a human is 5 meters per round, which exactly equals 5 kilometers per hour.

 

Here are some considerations.


The average human walks comfortably at about 5 kilometers per hour (3.11 miles per hour).

This speed equates to about 1.39 meters per second (4.56 feet per second).


However, physically, the human can reach almost double this speed while walking, 9 km/h (5.59 mi/h).

Upto 2.50 m/s (8.20 ft/s).



So, if a round lasts 6 seconds, the human travels comfortably 8.34 meters per round.

However, if a round lasts 8.64 seconds (a useful amount of time for counting rounds in magnitudes of 10 per day), then the human travels exactly 12 meters per round. A move rate of 12 meters per round can be useful, but if each square is one meter, then the battlemap has to be almost double the size of what it is now. If this is the case, it might be better to make each square equal 2 meters. But this solution loses the simplicity of 1 meter to 1 square.



Alternatively, if a round lasts 3.6 seconds (so there are 1000 rounds per hour), then the move rate is 5 meters per round. This is probably the best way to go, because the battlemat can handle 5 1-meter squares, and the distance of 5 meters per round converts exactly to 5 kilometers per hour. This is very helpful for representing any speed, from humans to horses to vehicles to flying dragons.
You know, this contant level of speed for everybody is pretty boring...and doesn't give anybody any way, other than class abilities in previous editions, to develop it further than it starts out.

In some other games, movement speed is actually a value calculated from character attributes. This gives a nice way for a player to build the character to move faster without the need for non-mundane or specialized training means. If I had to pull together a general calculation for speed using material available during character creation, I'd combine DEX (general speed and reaction time) and CON (endurance) scores and modify movement appropriately by race.

If the average human, elf, orc, etc has speed 30...and the average combined DEX/CON scores is 20, make it so those races add 10 to the calculation.
Dwarves would be just as simple...add 5 to the combined attributes.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Simple. Plus, it would allow players with high attributes in both to move faster than their average counterparts. And, it would allow for developing speed over time. 



I feel the desire for a faster “speed” needs caution.

In reallife, my normal “move rate” is fast. When I walk on a city sidewalk, it is rare I will notice someone whose pace is the same as mine. Surprising if someone walks faster than me. I have to make a conscious effort to slow my pace down if Im walking with friends.

And yet, Im not an especially fast runner. (Both my father and brother actually are fast runners.) Probably most people can walk at my pace, they just dont feel comfortable doing so. Assuming someone isnt physically challenged, walking speed really has nothing to do with upper speed.



I forget previous editions, but 4e is quite accurate when depicting human speed.

The 4e Human can move about 6 5-foot squares per 6-second rounds. This number is right, albeit rounding up. Then 4e represents exceeding the walking speed as a “double move”, apparently a jog. Again this is something that most humans can do, but usually dont feel the need to.

Then 4e represents a full-on run, as much faster by multiples of the base speed, but incurring drawbacks. Sprinters run even faster by increasing the multiples. This is about right.



So, if someones 4e “speed” is 6 squares, it doesnt really matter if this speed is 6 or 8 or 10, because this walking speed will be 6 or 8 or 10 for everyone, because virtually all humans can walk this fast. There is no actual advantage here.


However *running* fast - by sprinting or by marathoning - here is where differences between the individual upper speeds of humans become apparent. But this has more to do with multiples of the base speed, not the base speed itself. And while running, one is using up their action in addition to their move.
However *running* fast - by sprinting or by marathoning - here is where differences between the individual upper speeds of humans become apparent. But this has more to do with multiples of the base speed, not the base speed itself. And while running one is using up their action anyway, in addition to their move.



Great point!

If folks feel the need for it, we can certainly increase the run/sprint distance without altering the basic move, which makes a lot of sense. I hesitate to increase the multiplier, since anything multiplicative can easily get out of hand, but if it was either increased by a small enough %, or increased by a flat value for run and/or sprint, then that might do the trick.
I always liked the AD&D 2nd Edition Player's Options: Combat & Tactic's take on movement speed since not all Humans necessarly run at the same speed.

Adding Strenght + Dexterity modifiers to increase Speed felt right to me. Now DDN doesn't work the same way and work best with 5 feet increments so a little tweak is needed.

I'd suggest positive modifier in Strenght and/or Dexterity to increase Speed by 5 feet (max 10).


Exemple:

Human [STR 10/DEX 11]:  Speed 30 feet

Human [STR 17/DEX 11]:  Speed 35 feet

Human [STR 13/DEX 18]:  Speed 40 feet
My first post was a bit short and I assumed alot, I apologize, let me explain.

D&D is one of the few games that has'nt involved stats in the calculation of combat speed.
My point with my original post was simply that.

The mathematics you are suggesting has been used over and over in a multiple of game environments, not just here.

They have all had the same problems, as of a system that suggests base speed like D&D but in another way.
 My point is, you have a point. Your suggestion is great in the sense that you actually base it on attributes, skills whatever but it doesnt really matter (IMO)in the end.

Speed makes you reach an opponent faster. Combined with effective melee you take him out. You can charge in and slay most of the opposition based on Initiative, speed and HtH combat ability. You can build a character around this.
  This is not an issue here but in other games you can missuse this to the extreme. I loathe to see it happen with D&D.

Combat maeuvering in my view should be the same. Adding feats or special abilities to it is ok. But not makeing it an inherital gamechanger. My point is aiming at the small grid. Not running and catching, getting away or marching.

In most other systems it makes Dex (speed or whatever) a to strong stat. Some combine it with size, con or something else. In the end its just a median of your total attributes (most of the time). That pans out or make it something you can missuse (powerplaying) with character creation.

Making characters based on race or attributes faster makes it a gamechanger in a small combat grid.

Knowing it isnt your original topic really I just wanted to say this.

Making speed a differantiator concerning situations I am all for. Like catching a thief in a crowd? Who has the best speed? Chasing someone over the roofs? Who has the best speed? Chasing through the woods, who comes out first? But they are all connected to skill/attribute/background checks IMO.

Taking speed on the battlegrid onto something else is not interesting. It inherently punish players for there choice of attributes (Wizards are always slower, Elves are always faster), class or race, it simply isnt fun. Fun as in the game promotes you to focus on certain stats to be viable in your class role (ever heard of a wizard with 3 int and 18 dex?).

And yes I know this is'nt adressed really in the rules or previous iterations but it's my thought on it.

Choosing that you want to be fast is more fun (skills or feats etc). And also kinda connects to your examples of how to actually achieve speed.

Just my thought.
Sign In to post comments