06/28/2012 TD: "Five Fists of Mutilation"

33 posts / 0 new
Last post
This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I literally lold at the idea that a swamps-matter deck would run mycosynth wellspring.
Ah mono-black control. The potential is wonderous, yet it remains just out of reach.

This is not the post you're looking for.

Of all the four drops, this is the card that has the most potential to make mono-black control happen.

Problem is, so many of the cards are four drops!
One thing: the art is freaking hideous. Actually that's not good enough someone: come up with a  really horrific word.
One thing: the art is freaking hideous. Actually that's not good enough someone: come up with a  really horrific word.

The art is just squergilic.

But also really good.
One thing: the art is freaking hideous. Actually that's not good enough someone: come up with a  really horrific word.



Whenever we die to a mutilating effect powered by raw Black mana, we all look like beatific cherubs. Oh yes.

"Possibilities abound, too numerous to count." "Innocent, unbiased observation is a myth." --- P.B. Medawar (1969) "Ever since man first left his cave and met a stranger with a different language and a new way of looking at things, the human race has had a dream: to kill him, so we don't have to learn his language or his new way of looking at things." --- Zapp Brannigan (Beast With a Billion Backs)
Forgive me because I've only been back into playing for < a year now, but how long have non-basic lands that produce black mana counted as swamps?
Forgive me because I've only been back into playing for < a year now, but how long have non-basic lands that produce black mana counted as swamps?


They don't.

Watery Grave and lands like it are unique in that they are nonbasic lands with basic land types. (Its typeline reads Land - Island Swamp.)
There is an entire paragraph about shock lands for no reason whatsoever.  WHY MUST WIZARDS KEEP TROLLING US WITH SHOCK LANDS?!?!?!?!
Lame, was good in its day, I hope that they do not reprint shocklands.
I miss the old days.
They will reprint shock duals in ravnica.

And if they dont, its Wizards stupid mistake of hyping something that was not there.

Even if they dont reprint duals, there will be nonbasic lands with basic types. Otherwise Arbor elf, farseak, liliana, etc dont make any sense.
Mutilate has always been one of my favourite cards, simply because it deals with almost anything. I'm a control player at heart, and it's certainly hard to beat in a swamp-heavy deck.

Casting Mutilate when you have a smug-looking opponent with both Avacyn, Angel of Hope and Sigarda, Host of Herons in play is one of the most enjoyable feelings I've ever had in Magic.
Rules Advisor. Used to play a lot of old Extended tournaments, now I just play prereleases and casual kitchen-table games with friends. My regular decks, many of which have been evolving for years: Contested Cliffs Beasts Coastal Piracy Hana Kami Spirit recycling Rout Multiplayer control Seizan, Perverter of Truth Commander
I'm loving that mono color may be just as viable as anything else. It's been a long time.
Reprinting shock lands will just be the biggest mistake ever, sure the secondary market prices will stay the same, just have more avalibility but if you think standard sucks now?
I miss the old days.
They will reprint shock duals in ravnica.

And if they dont, its Wizards stupid mistake of hyping something that was not there.

Even if they dont reprint duals, there will be nonbasic lands with basic types. Otherwise Arbor elf, farseak, liliana, etc dont make any sense.



Exactly what I believe.

But Ravnica was remembered as multi-color block AND dual lands, therefore I believe that the non-basic lands with the relevent basic land type would produce multiple colors.

It won't be a "Land - Swamp" with an extra ability like Leechridden Swamp.
4-mana black board sweeper in Standard?  Awesome!! Just go on and flash your Restoration Angel when the zombie attack comes on turn four or five.  Pretty much a better Bonfire of the Damned.
I feel like black would have been better served by "reprinting" Mutilate as new Liliana's -3 instead.
Forgive me because I've only been back into playing for < a year now, but how long have non-basic lands that produce black mana counted as swamps?


They don't.

Watery Grave and lands like it are unique in that they are nonbasic lands with basic land types. (Its typeline reads Land - Island Swamp.)




If that's the case, what's with the article's mention of pulling drowned catacombs and Dragonskull summits with liliana?
If that's the case, what's with the article's mention of pulling drowned catacombs and Dragonskull summits with liliana?


The only reason I make mention here is that given Liliana of the Dark Realms, certain parties were speculating on the return of the Ravnica Block "dual lands" (Godless Shrine, Watery Grave, Blood Crypt, and Overgrown Tomb in black). They are similar to the Magic 2013 cycle in that they hit the battlefield tapped (except sometimes) but are themselves all Swamps (or Plains, Islands, Mountains, or Forests).

You can get one of these with a Verdant Catacombs or search one up with Liliana of the Dark Realms. And yes, Mutilate will count a Watery Grave when it is deciding how much creature butt to kick upon resolution.



Instances and variations of the pronoun "they" in the quoted text after the mention of 'Ravnica Block "dual lands"' are referring to Ravnica block dual lands.

Ah, that makes considerably more sense. Thanks to everyone for clarifying. 
If that's the case, what's with the article's mention of pulling drowned catacombs and Dragonskull summits with liliana?


The only reason I make mention here is that given Liliana of the Dark Realms, certain parties were speculating on the return of the Ravnica Block "dual lands" (Godless Shrine, Watery Grave, Blood Crypt, and Overgrown Tomb in black). They are similar to the Magic 2013 cycle in that they hit the battlefield tapped (except sometimes) but are themselves all Swamps (or Plains, Islands, Mountains, or Forests).

You can get one of these with a Verdant Catacombs or search one up with Liliana of the Dark Realms. And yes, Mutilate will count a Watery Grave when it is deciding how much creature butt to kick upon resolution.



Instances and variations of the pronoun "they" in the quoted text after the mention of 'Ravnica Block "dual lands"' are referring to Ravnica block dual lands.




Yeah, in all fairness the article is phrased very misleadingly. It never explicitly tells you that a Drowned Catacomb is a swamp, but it does ramble a bit about those lands, then sorta switch to talking about Watery Grave type lands that are swamps without really distinguishing them very well. It seems like quite a few people have been confused by this. 
Rules Advisor. Used to play a lot of old Extended tournaments, now I just play prereleases and casual kitchen-table games with friends. My regular decks, many of which have been evolving for years: Contested Cliffs Beasts Coastal Piracy Hana Kami Spirit recycling Rout Multiplayer control Seizan, Perverter of Truth Commander

You're not kidding about that paragraph being misleading. Is Flores trying to obilquely hint that shocklands are coming back, or is he trying to obliquely hint that shocklands aren't coming back. I genuinely cannot tell.

Even if they do reprint the shock lands I may just get 3 more watery grave to compleat my set. then maybe just maybe I will pick up some fetches to build a halfassed no fow control legacy deck.
I miss the old days.
You guys speak as if Flores has any more clue to what gets printed than we do. He only gets a few days advance on cards he previews only.

(at)MrEnglish22

People in my playgroup speculate we may see wedge tri-lands with only one land type, similar to Murmuring Bosk, that enter play tapped. It makes sense because it seems Wizards would never reprint true duals, but are perfectly willing to push multicolor with tools like the Shards block tri-lands.
"Catch!"
People in my playgroup speculate we may see wedge tri-lands with only one land type, similar to Murmuring Bosk, that enter play tapped. It makes sense because it seems Wizards would never reprint true duals, but are perfectly willing to push multicolor with tools like the Shards block tri-lands.
"Catch!"
I think we assume that Flores knows (or will know) because he's a rare pro player who also writes for MTG.com itself, meaning that he has two separate channels for said knowing - conversations with people who already know, and the godbook they give to pros before new sets (remember the New Phyrexia leak fiasco?).
(remember the New Phyrexia leak fiasco?).



Nope someone want to remind me?

I miss the old days.
You guys speak as if Flores has any more clue to what gets printed than we do. He only gets a few days advance on cards he previews only.



I think we assume that Flores knows (or will know) because he's a rare pro player who also writes for MTG.com itself, meaning that he has two separate channels for said knowing - conversations with people who already know, and the godbook they give to pros before new sets (remember the New Phyrexia leak fiasco?).




Nope someone want to remind me?



This article is a succinct summary of the New Phyrexia leak debacle, during the course of which it was revealed that professional magic players enjoy a network of leaked information regarding upcoming magic sets to which we lowly FNM players are not privy.

I don't see what the big deal is, to be honest. The effort required to obtain early knowledge of a set demonstrates a greater commitment to the game and desire to win.
You guys speak as if Flores has any more clue to what gets printed than we do. He only gets a few days advance on cards he previews only.



I think we assume that Flores knows (or will know) because he's a rare pro player who also writes for MTG.com itself, meaning that he has two separate channels for said knowing - conversations with people who already know, and the godbook they give to pros before new sets (remember the New Phyrexia leak fiasco?).




Nope someone want to remind me?



This article is a succinct summary of the New Phyrexia leak debacle, during the course of which it was revealed that professional magic players enjoy a network of leaked information regarding upcoming magic sets to which we lowly FNM players are not privy.

I don't see what the big deal is, to be honest. The effort required to obtain early knowledge of a set demonstrates a greater commitment to the game and desire to win.


You mean print publications who may employ pro-players used to recieve information regarding upcoming sets.
You mean print publications who may employ pro-players used to recieve information regarding upcoming sets.



Do you mind posting a link to the announcement that print publications will no longer receive information regarding upcoming sets? I seem to have missed that.

Or did you mean that Lotus Noir will no longer receive such information? If so, I also missed that announcement.

In fact, though, I meant exactly what I wrote. Anyone who thinks that the events of the New Phyrexia leak are the iceberg entire is demonstrating remarkable naïveté.

Also of interest:

April 28, 2011

"Guillaume Matignon says, "I am responsible for that leak"; receives three-year ban."


May 01, 2012


"Helene Bergiot says Matignon, 'cleared of the responsibility of the leak',  lifts ban."



Back on topic, I suspect that people think Flores has insider knowledge regarding the shockland reprints because Wizards has shown that they have no problem with giving professional players insight into upcoming product.

Really, though, there are enough clues that some sort of duals with basic land types are coming in R2R that there is no need to speculate on whether or not Flores has concrete knowledge of them.

If you follow him through other channels (particularly his podcasts with BDM), Mike loves to leak insider information that he probably shouldn't, including: 



  • that there are certain words & phrases the editors insist on removing from his articles

  • that years ago, there were persons inside R&D who, on the day the set list went public, would send their Pro friends copies of the Future Future League decklists as a starting point.

  • what other writers secretly think of the cards they've been told to write about during preview weeks.


But he's never given the slightest indication that he gets advanced knowledge on the order of a Godbook 5 months in advance.  So to speculate that he knows something seems awfully conspiracy theory-ish.


Really, though, there are enough clues that some sort of duals with basic land types are coming in R2R that there is no need to speculate on whether or not Flores has concrete knowledge of them.

That is the most logical explanation.  They've hinted so heavily that failure to follow through now would likely earn a backlash.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Sign In to post comments