The Gold issue

I must apoligize beforehand cause I don't know if this thread has been posted, most likely it has, as I have seen reports/videos about they are thinking about the inflation. Can't find the threads though.


Just had to tell my part.


First time I played D&D I asked WTF was the Bronze, copper, and all the other crap about when everything in the equipment list costed gold. My DM couldnt answer...


I really don't get the EP making a comeback, but than again I don't know the monetary system yet. Just feels like... Skip it. Don't need the hassle.


Just wanted to say, keep it down. Millions of gold is unheard of historically wise. Was only when the Spanians robbed a continent that Gold pieces could actually be minted.


Rather put the silver 100 to 1 gold (think it was 1 to 350 historically, and "today" it has peeked to 100 to 1), in any case just put the gold in the place as it is worth something.
Just bring the feeling of gold actually be worth something back, not gems, jewelry or other "weird" fantasy inflation stuff. Not saying it should adhere to history, just u know...make sense.



In the end it's a small flavour game wise. Historically it's an impact (but hey it's a fantasy game!) but beyond that, how do you store it? Disregard it or or make it unintresting gamewise? Force your players to do bank checks or exchange it into jewelry?
Or like how much are u carrying? (cause I want to know how much u gonna loose if it comes to that?). The hazzles are endless.


As would if u got a treasure of a million silver but the point... The point is I want to make it a choice of how much u decide to try to escape with. It kinda deviates from my topic but I would like to see the scenario: Ok its 1000000 silver X copper and 10000 Gold or whatever, I have too choose. Do I take the weapons, the silver and the copper or do I skip it and go for the valuables in a pinch?

Contextually with Earth, that would work. However, none of the D&D created worlds, no matter how similar they may otherwise seem, are Earth.

With different worlds, different levels of mineral deposits are used. Prime example would be Dragonlance, where gold is actually worth less than silver is...and steel is in the place that gold would normally be beneath platinum.

The reason that 1gp = 10sp, and 1sp = 10cp is simplicity. Running conversions in base 10 is a lot faster than running at base 350 or even base 12. "I've got 3,552,324 copper, I wonder what that is in gold? Hmmm, drop the last number and I have silver...drop the last again and I have 35,523 gold. Done "

If you want to DM a game in a pseudo-historical middle ages, you're more than welcome to. There's nothing in the book that states that you have to run what's presented. And with that being the case, you can set up whatever monetary conversion system that you want.

Just saying.   
Most DMs I know run their games with silver-based economies, but keep the copper - silver - gold standards of currency. It's at least a little more realistic and think about it, most commoners get by on mostly coppers, some silvers, and the occassional gold piece. By level 3 an adventurer has more money in their pouch than a commoner will see in a lifetime. Why risk your life any longer when you can simply retire at age 20 and live comfortably for the rest of your life? Yes, yes, I know, because a.) It's a game and b.) They're adventurers! I think the D&D economy (in any edition) has never been well thought out when it comes to the prices of goods, services, wages, magic items, etc., in relation to one another.
"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back."
I completly agree!

It is a fantasy world. But you must also agree to that it has a connection to our world, in the sense that we can identify ourselves to it? Like moneys worth?
 I wont explorate more than D&D have that as an essence. To be able to identify yourself in your environment with the gaming world that is fantasy. I can buy that.
 My thought is more of simplicity in the end. Why the inflation?

 My point is, mundane weapons and anything else on that equipment list is'nt in correlation with the monetary system!? As in whatever you find after an adventure would destroy any economy.

You could argue that adventurers are uniqe etc., but thats not the problem.

My point is in the end...

 It just makes it uninteresting to count any other valuable than gold really.
Ok for an MMO maybe not so OK for a RP?

I agree about your math, no doubt in that.

Yes, no? 

Just saying





Most DMs I know run their games with silver-based economies, but keep the copper - silver - gold standards of currency. It's at least a little more realistic and think about it, most commoners get by on mostly coppers, some silvers, and the occassional gold piece. By level 3 an adventurer has more money in their pouch than a commoner will see in a lifetime. Why risk your life any longer when you can simply retire at age 20 and live comfortably for the rest of your life? Yes, yes, I know, because a.) It's a game and b.) They're adventurers! I think the D&D economy (in any edition) has never been well thought out when it comes to the prices of goods, services, wages, magic items, etc., in relation to one another.

Agree, I just feel the other coins are none essential to put it simple.
 
 It just makes it uninteresting to count any other valuable than gold really.
Ok for an MMO maybe not so OK for a RP?



Simple note...MMOs are based on systems much like D&D, not the other way around. With the major difference being: What happens in my game doesn't change yours.

Anyways, these monetary rules have been pretty much the same since the beginning of D&D...and likely even before. Should the monetary system be changed? Sure, why not. The problem here would then become...the item that costed 1gp (10sp) would need to be adjusted to compensate instead of staying at the new, yet inflated, 1gp (100sp, 350sp, etc). Should the game designers worry about that while in the process of revamping an entire system? Sure, and it's possible that they've already got it on a to-do list or a if-we-have-time list. Is it a pressing concern for them? Likely not.

If you want to see something like that in play, it'd probably be much easier and more satisfying for yourself if you made a world of your own with that kind of monetary mechanic in play. That way you can get the economy experience that you're looking for, instead of running off of one that somebody else made, but you're running because it's the closest to what you think would be. I'm not saying that's the case for you...I'm just saying you have options.   
From a historical perspective in 1374 a nights arms and armour were apraised at 16 pounds (the pound was valued against a pound of silver) or about 768 sp 76.8 gp in game terms.  If you took a retail price index that would be about 10000 pounds today, however the price gap between average income and would make it closer to 100000 pounds using www.measuringworth.com/ppoweruk/.

That is not to say that some armour was very expensive there is this example:
"At the upper end of the scale, we find examples such as a large garniture (a basic suit of armor that, through the addition of further pieces and plates, could be adapted for various purposes both on the battlefield and in different types of tournament) commissioned in 1546 by a German king (later emperor) for his son. For this commission, the court armorer Jörg Seusenhofer of Innsbruck received on completion a year later the enormous sum of more than 1,200 gold coins, equivalent to twelve times the annual salary of a senior court official."  www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.h...

So a price for plate alone of 1500 gp is fairly high even when compared to the armour fit for a king (game terms a +2?)

I know the economy is not of this world, but if the supply of gold were common enough to mint this many coins for the average soldier, I suspect it would mean that gold is highly devalued.  Plus D&D has always had a crazy lots of coins economy.  In a BECMI game where I enforced encumbrance my players were forced to leave heaps of gold behind.
Also, note that this is a fantasy world; lots of things will be different. For example, a setting I've run several times, the Dwarves basically took over a monopoly on coin minting, since the Dwarven kingdom bordered the only Mountains which contained mines of precious metal (which was often filled with monsters); In this setting, metal coinage was much rarer, since the dwarves basically slowly inflated the economy, by introducing new coinage from their banks, but it was so slow that it didn't really keep up with population growth, so, especially in non-Dwarven lands, bank notes were more popular (which made for some cool moments dealing with multiple different currencies, paper and coin)

I've run a setting with based on the traditional 1g=20s; 1s=12c, which was common throughout europe (1 Pound = 20 shillings, 1 shilling = 12 pence; 1 Livre=20 sol, 1 sol = 12 denier, ect), but it didn't really go over well. People like decimal conversions.

I generally don't worry about parties carrying gold back, unless a) they're already nearly overloaded, or b) I just gave them a ton of gold, and don't really care about "playing nice" about it. 

I am currently raising funds to run for President in 2016. Too many administrations have overlooked the international menace, that is Carmen Sandiego. I shall devote any and all necessary military resources to bring her to justice.

Yeah, my DM's a pretty big stichler for encumbrance...so he keeps tabs every time we find a significant amount of coins. So yeah, I'd say that I'd be pretty perturbed to have to lug around 10,000cp (1gp = 100sp, 1sp = 100cp ratios) just to make my first gold piece. Oh yeah, by the way...that amount of coin, but the coin to wieght conversion, is 200lbs. Wouldn't be happy about that, for sure.
Dragon Age has a pretty reasonable currency system.

100 Coppers = 1 Silver

100 Silver = 1 Gold

The most powerful and expensive items usually cost around 100 gold, so you aren't lugging around 1 billion gold pieces everywhere like in higher level D&D.
Dragon Age can accomplish that because their items were created around a 1:100 coin system...D&D was created around a 1:10 ratio. For this system, that means that item costs would have to be reworked, farther than is likely already planned.

Not only that, but monster drops would have to get reworked too. As would any module that will go through re-print for this new system if it has any random loot possibility (such as the current one does).

It may not seem like it, but there is a ton of stuff that would have to happen to simply change the monetary system for the entirety of D&D...even with a new system.   
The most historically viable economy would be strictly silver coins, of different sizes. Then exchange gold and copper, like gems, for whatever their exchange rate happens to be at the moment.




By the way, here is a related thread:

• Copper, Silver coins and the Economy
Dragon Age can accomplish that because their items were created around a 1:100 coin system...D&D was created around a 1:10 ratio. For this system, that means that item costs would have to be reworked, farther than is likely already planned.

Not only that, but monster drops would have to get reworked too. As would any module that will go through re-print for this new system if it has any random loot possibility (such as the current one does).

It may not seem like it, but there is a ton of stuff that would have to happen to simply change the monetary system for the entirety of D&D...even with a new system.   



I agree it isnt an easy conversion and may not be viable. A simple mathematical formula ofc solves it, but that is not for everyone. I am not saying I myself as a DM don't do it.

My point is it's the next version, this is the chance to change it.

The system like a previous poster said was taken to MMOs from pen and paper RPGs. And quickly everyone in a computer game was lugging around millions of gold as an abstract term of wealth. MMO also have the benefit (or curse) of actually introducing inflation etc. which is never an issue in D&D unless you as a DM make a fuzz about it. Like economics, different minting etc. I don't DM D&D to simulate monetary wealth.

In a typical RPG I would say the low gold value alienates realism vs playability to much. In a way it is extremly abstracted and left to the DM to impose penalties for loot as it is.

I have gorged in my players misfortune when they find treasures worth alot gold wise but found in copper.

I just feel that a new iteration could bring back the sense of gold being something of worth. Not something you flick at an urchin to tip him off.
 In it's essence its not much of a gamechanger it's simply a flavour taste. And ofc a weight issue^^.