Deck Tiers 2013 Version (Was Done for 2012 so why not here)

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What Tiers do you think the decks are in?

Great Tier:
1: Garruk - The Ramp is great, the early Creatures are powerful, the late Creatures each end the game by themselves almost all the time.

Good Tier:
2: Jace - The Mill comes fast and pays off great with lots of Cards counting opposing Graveyard size.
3: Talrand - The spells are already powerful and Card advantage is abundant but there are Cards that make even more Card Advantage per Spell and this deck has access to Extra Turns.
4: Krenko - Tons of agression and an abundance of Creatures, this deck will win before several of the decks get going.

Meh Tier:
5: Chandra - Lots of Control and potential Card advantage, this deck does not always manage to get going.
6: Odric - There are lots of good Creatures but your Creatures have nothing to get lorded.
7: Liliana - With a good amount of Control, this deck has no finishing power.

Bad Tier:
8: Yeva - Lots of Creatures are largely inefficient and have unnessesary Drawbacks and this deck rarely comes together without drawing Yeva.
9: Nefarox - Lots of Cards with Exalted are overpriced and this deck lacks the extra-efficient Creatures that the other decks have.
10: Ajani - This deck is just terrible since lots of cards gain life although very few cards take it as an advantage.

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Seems too early to discuss these things, but I feel like my tier separation is going to be a "Great" tier and then a "Not as Great, but Still Quite Good" tier.
Seems too early to discuss these things, but I feel like my tier separation is going to be a "Great" tier and then a "Not as Great, but Still Quite Good" tier.



I'd say it's definitely too early to determine the tiers, I doubt many people have all the decks unlocked yet and not much serious online play has been happening yet. The first couple weeks is usually trial and error and experimentation with the new meta. I do feel like the Goblin deck is a bit too quick for the meta though, it seems to faceroll most decks pretty quickly.
I think there are only 2 tiers: "Decks I like" and "Decks I don't like, but are strong too".

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

Way too early for serious tier consideration.   I haven't even used all of the decks yet.    I think this meta will be determined by match-ups mostly, as all the decks are strong in their own way.

Take the Ajani deck.  It is a strong deck, lots of powerful creatures and synergy, but it gets shut down easy by removal, i.e. Chandra and Liliana.

Jace and Talrand are easily swarmed by Krenko and Odric.

Yeva is an amazing deck and I have no idea how you can say its creatures are "largely inefficient" when almost all of them affect the board position just by entering the battlefield.

Garruk cannot protect his big threats either without greaves out.  

etc, etc

 
I think this meta will be determined by match-ups mostly, as all the decks are strong in their own way. 

Yeah, and because of this, I think it makes any tier listings we could come up with feel potentially amorphous. One deck can be good against a handful of decks, but then just as easily be weak against some others. Add in the extra dimension of potential "metagaming" with the increased unlocks, some decks could fine tune themselves to turn their perceived weak match ups into good ones or vice versa just by running some combination of cards. Although, I'm sure as the masses start playing more, we'll have lists that are largely optimized in a general sense.

 
7: Liliana - With a good amount of Control, this deck has no finishing power.



What? No finishing power? Are we pretending that Avatar of Woe and all those big demons don't exist?

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On what planet is Ajani's deck last in the tier list? I hate this deck, and that's how I know it's so powerful, because I play it every, single, game. I can't remember the last game I played where someone wasn't using it, and in 2HG it's a god. Combine it with Mill and it's nearly unbeatable. With cards that can get you to 50 health by turn 6 and after that it's doubling ever turn. Add in a card that makes it so if you're over 40 you win. Yea, it's nuts. 


But as long as I'm being biased, Goblin deck is the top of top tiers because science.
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Is the goblin deck the fastest of them all? If anything, that should make it so that it sets the pace of the format. If your deck can't beat that deck, it's not worth running because theoretically everyone could play Goblins and beat you. Luckily, a lot of decks seem capable of running against goblins and winning. Where does that put goblins then? High tier just because it's like the "deck to beat" in a format design sense? Or high/low based on what everyone else is running? (this goes back to my amorphous metagame comment earlier I guess)
What Tiers do you think the decks are in?


9: Nefarox - Lots of Cards with Exalted are overpriced and this deck lacks the extra-efficient Creatures that the other decks have.



I cannot disagree with this more. I play Nefarox almost exclusively with fantastic success online. Cheap creatures plus heaps of exalted more often then not nets me the win. I agree with Bishop in that deck rating is based on the match up its going against.

On what planet is Ajani's deck last in the tier list? I hate this deck, and that's how I know it's so powerful, because I play it every, single, game. I can't remember the last game I played where someone wasn't using it, and in 2HG it's a god. Combine it with Mill and it's nearly unbeatable. With cards that can get you to 50 health by turn 6 and after that it's doubling ever turn. Add in a card that makes it so if you're over 40 you win. Yea, it's nuts. 

But as long as I'm being biased, Goblin deck is the top of top tiers because science.


Ajani before unlocks is really bad.   It just doesn't have enough threats, and the 1 or 2 threats you do have have no protection against removal of any kind.  It gets waaay better after unlocking Knight of Meadowgrain and the two DoJs and StPs, and of course, Baneslayer
Wait a sec,the decks you call "meh" are actually some of the best once fully unlocked imo.

Top 3 decks are so far from my experience and opinion:

1.Odric
2.Chandra
3.Yeva

It is just many ppl haven't figured out a proper build yet which is why they probably think those decks are weak.I am not saying my build is good,but I can see why these decks will probably end up on top and stay there even months after the release.
The fact that everyone in this thread thinks a different deck is the best makes the whole existence of this thread useless...

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

It's too early to tell, but imo Odric and Chandra are top tier.


I dont know about Garuk, but control decks such as  Liliana's and blue decks just roll him over.  
Who has the all unlocks anyway? I mean I played 15-20 hours and I think I have 2 decks fully unlocked yet aside from Garruk and Ajani (Steam bonuses). And most of that is from unlocking shenanigans online with some friends.

The truth is, grinding is so strong with this one so I dont expect an average gamer to unlock all cards before the month.

Deck tiers will start to matter after then.

In the meantime, I had great success with Yeva on the second day of release. I think my streak was 6/6 or something with an unlocked version. I am still mostly playing single player, those Challenges are giving me a hard time. I will be one happy person if I can beat Obliterate This.
I'm not entirely sure about the best decks in order since I only have about 40 ranked games so far (and about 40 casual too)... but I can say this much. Jace's Mill deck is most definitely not Tier 1 or Tier 2 (as Op would like you to believe). If I had to make a list as of today I would rank it dead last. There's almost no way it can beat an experienced Goblin or Soldier player. Don't even get me started on how bad it is against Chandra's Phoenix.

As of that note if I had to name the best deck I'd go with Goblins for now.

Goblins is an example of a great deck (like Jace in DotP12) that doesn't have to rely on cheap tactics (like Beknighted from D12 and Ajani Lifegain from D13) that are particularly good against the other decks in the format. It's a deck that's hardest match-up can still win against if it draws decent, plays smart and knows what tricks to not walk into. So...

Tier 1
1.Goblins
2. Ajani (too good versus aggro strategies)

Tier 2
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

Tier 3
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?

Tier 4
10. Jace  Tongue Out

Give me another week to try each deck at least a few dozen times and I think I would have a good feel for it.
 

Top Tier:
 Chandra - Fast, amazing control, reccuring fliers, good mana curve, board sweepers, great direct damage.
  Odric - Strongest early game, coupled with control, and good finishers.  Can be competetive late game no problem.
   
 High Tier:
 
Krenko - Huge agro, a lot of battlefield manipulation, amazing combos, although is very vulnerable to board sweepers.
Yeva - The powerful spells, good card combo, dont have much weaknesses.
 
Mid Tier:
 Garruk - great ramp and huge creatures is usually not enough against good control or fast agro decks.
 Talrand - A lot of gimmicks and tricks, if they dont align in right order, the deck is screwed.
 Jace - Same as Talrand, Jace has a lot of weak spots, and initiating multiple card draw is not always an advantage.
 
Unknown (for me)

Ajani
Lialiana (i have played her a lot, can pull out amazing wins, but not sure about all matchups so far)
Nefarox.


This is from my online experience so far.
Wait...Odric is "meh" and Yeva is "bad"? Are you playing the same game as me? Those are both in my top 3.
I think one of the problems with splitting the decks into tiers here is that each deck is weak to (at least) one of the others (as, I'm guessing, WoTC wanted it to be). I don't think there's a definite 'bad' deck but every deck has a bad match-up (i.e. the Jace deck, for me at least, has a 100% win record against Talrand).

Anyone else got any bad match-ups? 
It should also be made clear, are we talking about Planechase FFA, 1v1, 2hg? All these decks function differently in each one. For example, Gobbies are amazing in 1v1, but aren't a very good suit for 2HG. Where Ajani isn't as good at 1v1, but is dominating in 2HG.
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Ive only unlocked 4 decks fully so far, should be able to get another 2 or 3 done today, but so far out of :


Jace
Chandra
Garruk
Krenko

Ide say Krenko is definately top tier, anybody who thinks otherwise hasnt built the deck properly. You can deal 10-15 damage in one turn, on turn 3/4 depending on your draw, it has effecient kill spells and overruns all but the human deck.

Chandra is amazingly powerful, using just burn spells and the phoenix's theres not much an opponent can do. is fantastic for that last damage because you can sac 2 tapped mountains, play it right and you can deal 10 or so damage to the face in one turn. 

Garruk has the best creatures, high power and toughness, timbermaw lava is a very powerful card.          
It is way too early to divide decks into  a tier list.
It will probably be much harder to do it for Duels2013 anyway. All decks are strong and overall there is a much better balance. Weak decks like 2012's Apex Predators, Dragon's Roar, Cloudburst don't exist in 2013 (the Expansion decks look pretty strong, too).

IMAGE(http://oi39.tinypic.com/14mvxh5.jpg)

I beat Jace and Liliana easily with Garruk's deck.

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Tier 1
Chandra - Best removal. AoE sweepers galore. Recursion fliers out the butt. Owns Krenko and Odric.
Krenko - Fatstest deck ever seen in DotP
Odric - Slightly less fast but a better late game than Krenko.

Tier 2 
Nefarox - AoE sweepers give it a chance against Tier 1 speed decks, but Chandra probably wipes it.
Yeva - Insanely sick combos. Best lategame deck but maybe too slow to deal with tier 1
Garruk - Strong but limited in it's options. Will be hit or miss.
Talrand - A few devestating combos, but probably can't handle the fast decks in tier 1  

Tier 3
Lilliana - One of my go-to decks for unlocking. Seems to have (Relatively) weak cards.
Ajani - My other go-to deck for unlocking. Lifegain doesn't seem to do much other than give me time to build up to my uber end game combos
Jace - Seems to have little to nil board position.

@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.

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There are no tiers.

Every deck has favourable, unfavourable and equal matches. Pretty much in equal measure.

Only time will tell if the expansion decks are equally well designed, but as of right now, any deck you list will roflstomp some and get lolraped by others so a tier system won't work. 
@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

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Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...


Yes, because RoI could reliably beat every other deck, while Apex Predators and Dragon's Roar couldn't. That's how you have tiers.

There isn't a deck in '13 (that I've seen so far at least) that wins against most other decks, nor loses to most other decks.
@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...


Yes, because RoI could reliably beat every other deck, while Apex Predators and Dragon's Roar couldn't. That's how you have tiers.

There isn't a deck in '13 (that I've seen so far at least) that wins against most other decks, nor loses to most other decks.



Jace cannot beat a well-tuned Krenko deck from my experience. 
@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...


Yes, because RoI could reliably beat every other deck, while Apex Predators and Dragon's Roar couldn't. That's how you have tiers.

There isn't a deck in '13 (that I've seen so far at least) that wins against most other decks, nor loses to most other decks.



Jace cannot beat a well-tuned Krenko deck from my experience. 



Hey friend, we were talking about DotP'12, not DotP'13. Krenko was only a baby goblin in that time Laughing

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

I think Krenko might have the most favourable match-ups, but I think it can still get stomped on by Chandra, Yeva and Garruk imho.   



 
@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...


Yes, because RoI could reliably beat every other deck, while Apex Predators and Dragon's Roar couldn't. That's how you have tiers.

There isn't a deck in '13 (that I've seen so far at least) that wins against most other decks, nor loses to most other decks.



Jace cannot beat a well-tuned Krenko deck from my experience. 


And yet Jace doesn't care about "broken" Ajani's life total.

Every deck has favourable/equal/unfavourable matches. Saying Deck A dies to Deck B doesn't change that.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I suppose we could always do a proper tier rankings like how most fighting game communities list theirs. Post a number for each individual match up based on best of 10 (or even 100) and then rank them by the total sums. I think they usually put a ton of work in theirs by having top players play the games at times to see how it works out. Most of us here just go off of gut feeling/personal experience.
I suppose we could always do a proper tier rankings like how most fighting game communities list theirs. Post a number for each individual match up based on best of 10 (or even 100) and then rank them by the total sums. I think they usually put a ton of work in theirs by having top players play the games at times to see how it works out. Most of us here just go off of gut feeling/personal experience.



I'm working on a tier ranking based exactly on this. It will take a while to be done (probably a month or so), because I will make it based more on statistics of the matchups, but I think it will be a good start for everyone to discuss. I only hope I can unlock and test every deck before the expansion arrives Laughing

WotC doesn't care about flavor. Their forum is the only place where an ORC can kill a troll...

Lost around 120 posts in the forum migration

Post #1000 on Feb 02, 2013

Post #2000 on Sep 04, 2013

@SwordOfAVirgin: All the Decks you rank above Garruk, I have beaten with Garruk's deck.



You know this doesn't mean nothing, right? In DotP'12, UF owned RoI, but we all know which one is the best deck in that game...


Yes, because RoI could reliably beat every other deck, while Apex Predators and Dragon's Roar couldn't. That's how you have tiers.

There isn't a deck in '13 (that I've seen so far at least) that wins against most other decks, nor loses to most other decks.



Jace cannot beat a well-tuned Krenko deck from my experience. 


And yet Jace doesn't care about "broken" Ajani's life total.

Every deck has favourable/equal/unfavourable matches. Saying Deck A dies to Deck B doesn't change that.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.



Although some decks have less unfavourable matchups. Imo Chandra worst unfavourable matchup is on equal grounds. Therefore, some sort of tiers can be made. Although, it's too early, it's always interesting to speculate. 
The fact that everyone in this thread thinks a different deck is the best makes the whole existence of this thread useless...



I think that's the best thing about this thread. It means every deck is extremely solid - which is a good thing.

After 4 days - I still think Chandra's is the best. No bias there.

I also agree we should make a tier list based on fighting games. This game is very matchup dependent.

IMAGE(http://i46.tinypic.com/2b5wr5.jpg)

I think Krenko might have the most favourable match-ups, but I think it can still get stomped on by Chandra, Yeva and Garruk imho.   



 



Ide disagree, by the time garruk has put a turn 3/4 creature on the table, its game over.
I suppose we could always do a proper tier rankings like how most fighting game communities list theirs. Post a number for each individual match up based on best of 10 (or even 100) and then rank them by the total sums. I think they usually put a ton of work in theirs by having top players play the games at times to see how it works out. Most of us here just go off of gut feeling/personal experience.



Bemus aren't affected by luck. Imo mtg tierlists have to be based on gut-feeling and theorycrafting.
Wow. The comments in this thread are annoying me. So much irrelevant and unproved opinions. I'm going back to playing, where I know for a fact that every deck is now equally capable of victory, unless you don't know how to cut it. In which case it sucks.
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I suppose we could always do a proper tier rankings like how most fighting game communities list theirs. Post a number for each individual match up based on best of 10 (or even 100) and then rank them by the total sums. I think they usually put a ton of work in theirs by having top players play the games at times to see how it works out. Most of us here just go off of gut feeling/personal experience.



Bemus aren't affected by luck. Imo mtg tierlists have to be based on gut-feeling and theorycrafting.

Well, we could still at least get people to provide some amount of data through a similar method. It seems a whole lot more useful then all of us saying, "Oh I win with this deck online" when the skills gaps between players can be quite large.

Wow. The comments in this thread are annoying me. So much irrelevant and unproved opinions. I'm going back to playing, where I know for a fact that every deck is now equally capable of victory, unless you don't know how to cut it. In which case it sucks.



How can you prove an opinion? You need to relax, its just a bit of a laugh to see which decks are the best. I play jace, but Krenko is by far the best deck, unless you dont know how to cut it.
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