Any news about that new Star Wars RPG?

It has been a while, but there was a rumor at least that another company (the name escapes me) had bought the license for the rpg. Any rumors? Speculation? Anything?

Thanks
Fantasy Flight Games has the license now.  I haven't heard much about the RPG, and a Google search doesn't yield much.  I think their lead punch is intended to be the card came.
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
Okay thanks Rob.
The last announcement at GenCon in 2011 is that they have the licence for minis, rpgs, and card games.  They had an alpha version of the card games in 2011, and they said that they were working on the RPG.  There's been no announcement as to what that entials, what the RPG will look like, or what sort of mechanics they'll use.  They're being extremely tight lipped about it.  I speculate that there will be some sort of announcement at the 2012 GenCon.
Order 66 did a show after GenCon where they interviewed the Fantasy Flight dudes. Very tight lipped but optimistic.
Garrett
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I'll be at GenCon this year, and I'm hoping that they'll have an update during their In-Flight Report seminar. Failing that, I'll grill people firsthand.
Nice. Thanks for filling me in, fellas.
Cool. I did not know that was in the works.

Another set of books to buy. :-)

You may know ALL the rules, but I KNOW the Spirit of the Game.

the sad thing is Fantasy Flight Games announced a card game and a miniature x-wing vs tie fighter game well over a year ago, and neither are out yet.  And this appears to be standard for FFG.  So even if they do announce an RPG, I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
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Hey, it takes time to make these games. Nothing sad about that. What would be sad is if they announced it and then rushed a crap product to market.

I say let them take their time and make a good game. Fans are willing to wait if the product is solid.
Hey, it takes time to make these games. Nothing sad about that. What would be sad is if they announced it and then rushed a crap product to market.

I say let them take their time and make a good game. Fans are willing to wait if the product is solid.

Sure. In the mean time, I'm playing Saga....




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Considering the hilarious amount of errata the Saga core book ended up with, I'd rather wait for the new game to go through additional iterations of playtesting, editing, proof-reading, etc. then get another rushed product that weighs down an entire line.


Considering the hilarious amount of errata the Saga core book ended up with, I'd rather wait for the new game to go through additional iterations of playtesting, editing, proof-reading, etc. then get another rushed product that weighs down an entire line.



Are you saying Saga is not a good RPG because it required errata?

Also, just because the new incarnation of Star Wars RPG goes through rigorous testing, that doesn't mean it will never require errata too. And just because a system never releases errata, does that automatically make it a good RPG?



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Considering the hilarious amount of errata the Saga core book ended up with, I'd rather wait for the new game to go through additional iterations of playtesting, editing, proof-reading, etc. then get another rushed product that weighs down an entire line.




Are you saying Saga is not a good RPG because it required errata?


I specifically mentioned the sheer amount of errata the core book received, not the fact that it required errata at all. Much of the errata is stuff that should have been caught in editing and playtesting but wasn't, apparently due to time pressure. More time, with more editing and playtesting, would have helped the book a lot.





Also, just because the new incarnation of Star Wars RPG goes through rigorous testing, that doesn't mean it will never require errata too.


Of course not, and I never said that.


What rigorous editing and playtesting do is vastly lower the chance that errata will be required, much less so the sheer amount that Saga received.



And just because a system never releases errata, does that automatically make it a good RPG?


No, and I never said that, either.


What was the "sheer amount of errata?" I think the Core Rulebook released 3 errata. Anyway, the amount of errata doesn't concern me. It's the final product that I make a judgement call on whether or not it is a good RPG.

In the final analysis: Despite Saga's shortcomings (ex: the skills vs. defense issue), I think Saga is the best Star Wars RPG out there right now.


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What was the "sheer amount of errata?" I think the Core Rulebook released 3 errata.



There are pages and pages of errata and suggested fixes for the core book alone. That's not the sign of a product ready to be released.



Anyway, the amount of errata doesn't concern me. It's the final product that I make a judgement call on whether or not it is a good RPG.


Well, even with all the errata, I think the Saga system is just not a good fit for Star Wars. I used to love building characters with it, and running the tactical combat game the system is built around, but it never captured the feel of the movies' action or dramatic scenes.




In the final analysis: Despite Saga's shortcomings (ex: the skills vs. defense issue), I think Saga is the best Star Wars RPG out there right now.


I agree, I just don't think this means that it is a good Star Wars game. Saga can be a fun system, but a D20 derivative, class- and map-focused tactics game is absolutely not what I would want for Star Wars.

I have to agree with Stanoje.  Saga is fun, I have fun playing it, but man it is full of mistakes and is very easy for players to break, and do so very quickly.  I have seen players roll in the 40s at level 8, and the game's difficulty ratings and NPCs simply does not accoutn for that to occur, though it seems to happen all the time.  Either that, or Saga wanted its players to be gods at level 8...

as for my other point about FFG, yes I want them to release great games.  But considering both the miniature and card game had to be reworked, almost completely, I really hope FFG waits to announce any RPG until the system is sorted.  Having people wait over a year after an announcement can really turn off consumers and hurt sales.
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If it's a well edited, extensively playtested game like Warhammer FRP, I won't buy it. (And if it were a well edited, extensively playtested game from Margaret Weis Productions, I wouldn't go near it with a 10 foot pole. ) So while I'd generally like to see a well edited, extensively playtested game, there's a lot more that would go into my decision making process than that.

I'm not opposed to grid maps, but I'm not married to them either. Saga definitely runs better with them than without them (no surprise there) but I have just as much fun (with a lot less prep time) playing our Marvel Super-Heroes game with no maps. So I handle more tactical or less tactical just fine. What I don't want is a big box full of special cards, special dice and other fiddly bits, or a game where my character's sense of humor stat helps determine whether or not I hit the Sith Lord in a lightsaber duel.
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To think, when the next SWRPG comes out I may finally decide to quit following it.

SAGA certainly is designed for use with a grid but it could be played without provided you trust your GM and are willing to admit that not everything is going to be useful.  I don't want to go into some of the finer points about going gridless (like finding, using, and negating cover in a ranged battle) but it can be done especially if your game isn't a big mix of ranged and melee characters.

There may have been some errata released for the SECR but if you look at the size of it's "team" I'd say it is NOTHING compared to the rewrite that must be 4e's core rulebooks.  Blame the company if you like but most of the time I do just fine referencing my old SECR (I do have a second printing somewhere) with an awareness that some of it isn't exactly right.

I know I'm a little curious what types of characters routinely "roll in the 40s" at 8th-level.  I have a very hard time seeing even a skill check routinely be that high with +10 (trainnig + focus) +4 level = +14 which leaves another +6 in modifiers before "take 20" can hit a 40.  Maybe there are some errors somewhere to account for those characters.  Now even if there aren't any mistakes what's wrong with having "gods" at 8th-level when some people believe their characters need to be that much stronger then everyone else right out of the gate.

At least from a PC point of view I agree with Richterbelmont that aside from the Skill vs. Defense issue (which could be addressed pretty easily) SWSE is easily my favorite SWRPG and in my opinion the best d20 RPG.

I'm not sure you could make an RPG that would make everyone happy, especially based in the StarWars Universe, because people have too many ideas on what that would mean.  I know people complain about SAGA's "Jedi" being both too strong and too weak all at the same time. 
(And if it were a well edited, extensively playtested game from Margaret Weis Productions, I wouldn't go near it with a 10 foot pole. )



Really?


Smallville and Marvel Heroic RPG are both extremely good games, in my opinion.


I have mixed feelings about the need to use miniatures in the next RPG. Miniatures are expensive! I can't afford them! I'd much rather have a few pages of cardboard squares with pictures of droids and characters and vehicles and creatures that I can punch out and use. If I need more, I can afford to buy them, since they're just cardboard cutouts.



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I'd hate it if a new RPG required miniatures.  SAGA may use miniatures but the truth is that as long as you have some way, really any way, to measure out "squares" you can do just fine.  Use a sheet of graph paper with terrain drawn on and pins to represent the various character and you can do just fine.  If the visual impact of the 1" squares is important (but is it really needed?) then even heavy paper cutouts can work well.  The 2e Dragonlance box had sheets of characters which you could cut out and then fold into a three sided "mini" to use on the game board.


I know I'm a little curious what types of characters routinely "roll in the 40s" at 8th-level.  I have a very hard time seeing even a skill check routinely be that high with +10 (trainnig + focus) +4 level = +14 which leaves another +6 in modifiers before "take 20" can hit a 40.  Maybe there are some errors somewhere to account for those characters.  Now even if there aren't any mistakes what's wrong with having "gods" at 8th-level when some people believe their characters need to be that much stronger then everyone else right out of the gate.



I don't know about routinely rolling 40's, but if there's an unarmed attack you've also got talents that will add to the attack, you also have size modifiers that can get calculated in.  Also, when one of our other players makes his characters he specializes pretty heavily and really gets the most of his niche.  But granted, I'm not rolling 40's on EVERYTHING with my brawler.  I did blow a DP and get something astronomically high on a grapple check against a smaller sized character, but I'd done a couple of things wrong and accidentally counted a couple of bonuses more than once (don't ask).  I think with a natural 20 I can get a grappling roll of 37 (1d20 + BAB [8] + Str [4] + size [5]).  Our pilot might pull a 40 out of her butt once you calculate the ship's bonuses to the piloting check, but I've never really kept track of how many higher numbers hit the table. 

Nezalhualixtlan 's characters are something altogether different.  Scary.  Very scary.  I'll just say this, the guy knows how to get the most out of the mechanics, and I've seen the builds he puts together.  The character will be highly specialized, but it'll get the job done.


I'd hate it if a new RPG required miniatures.  SAGA may use miniatures but the truth is that as long as you have some way, really any way, to measure out "squares" you can do just fine.  Use a sheet of graph paper with terrain drawn on and pins to represent the various character and you can do just fine.  If the visual impact of the 1" squares is important (but is it really needed?) then even heavy paper cutouts can work well.  The 2e Dragonlance box had sheets of characters which you could cut out and then fold into a three sided "mini" to use on the game board.



The one thing that makes me frightened about FFG doing the game is that I like the idea of being able to buy a book, and put together a game.  I'm not going to be interested in a bunch of extra cards, pieces, counters, terrains, blinking lights, noise makers, and party hats just to sit down and play an RPG.  Yeah, like you've said, SAGA requires some kind of character representation, but if I want to pull out a pawn from board game, then I can.  FFG has a reputation of making elaborate games.  If it's a RPG-like game kit in a box, I'm probably not even going to take a look at it.

I'll admit, I had fun providing a lot of D6 fans some conversions from SAGA to D6,  and I've been asked if I'm going to do the same with FFG's game, and I'm a bit dubious about them producing something I'd have fun working with given the complexity of some of their games in the past.  Great games, mind you... just not what I've looked for in an RPG.

I don't want to buy new toys for a new game. I probably will indulge by getting FFG's minis and maps-- the quality I saw on their X-Wing demo was magnificient and those were rough prototypes. With SW I expect toys to play with. I started gaming by roleplaying with a diceless system with Kenner action figures. It was just called playing, but it is forever associated with SW for me.
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I don't know about routinely rolling 40's, but if there's an unarmed attack you've also got talents that will add to the attack, you also have size modifiers that can get calculated in.  Also, when one of our other players makes his characters he specializes pretty heavily and really gets the most of his niche.  But granted, I'm not rolling 40's on EVERYTHING with my brawler.  I did blow a DP and get something astronomically high on a grapple check against a smaller sized character, but I'd done a couple of things wrong and accidentally counted a couple of bonuses more than once (don't ask).  I think with a natural 20 I can get a grappling roll of 37 (1d20 + BAB [8] + Str [4] + size [5]).  Our pilot might pull a 40 out of her butt once you calculate the ship's bonuses to the piloting check, but I've never really kept track of how many higher numbers hit the table. 

Nezalhualixtlan 's characters are something altogether different.  Scary.  Very scary.  I'll just say this, the guy knows how to get the most out of the mechanics, and I've seen the builds he puts together.  The character will be highly specialized, but it'll get the job done.




says the man who rolled a 50 "by accident."    Without delving TOO far into our personal game and players, my point was that it's very possible, and that the designers clearly failed to see that as a possibility.   And I don't believe this is just my experience, but it is reflected in much of the feedback seen here.  I've never seen a game with so many house rules, for example.

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I'd say that's fair.  The fact that it happens in our game is point enough.  I can't speak for the general experience as I usually just lurk here in subjects that catch my attention.  Mechanics discussions don't usually do it for me since I'm not so immersed in the system.  I play, but I don't think I'd GM for a long stint.  NPCs are too time consuming to make (yeah yeah yeah, generators and excell sheets... I know), and the NPCs in the books are just cannon fodder. 

Maybe FFG will develop a system that's sleek, simple, and elegant that fits my budget and maybe it won't.  Until then, I've got all the SAGA books (most of which I snagged for WELL under cover price), and I grab D6 books off of eBay.  I can't really say I'm particularly hurting for more SW RPG material.



P.S., that 50 could have happened to anybody who was too excited to pay attention to which collum his numbers were coming out of. 
I have to agree with Stanoje.  Saga is fun, I have fun playing it, but man it is full of mistakes and is very easy for players to break, and do so very quickly.  I have seen players roll in the 40s at level 8, and the game's difficulty ratings and NPCs simply does not accoutn for that to occur, though it seems to happen all the time.  Either that, or Saga wanted its players to be gods at level 8...

as for my other point about FFG, yes I want them to release great games.  But considering both the miniature and card game had to be reworked, almost completely, I really hope FFG waits to announce any RPG until the system is sorted.  Having people wait over a year after an announcement can really turn off consumers and hurt sales.



I'm new to SWSE, can someone explain what these mistakes / rules flaws are? Or maybe point me to a thread or blog where they're discussed in detail? Thanks!
I have to agree with Stanoje.  Saga is fun, I have fun playing it, but man it is full of mistakes and is very easy for players to break, and do so very quickly.  I have seen players roll in the 40s at level 8, and the game's difficulty ratings and NPCs simply does not accoutn for that to occur, though it seems to happen all the time.  Either that, or Saga wanted its players to be gods at level 8....

I'm new to SWSE, can someone explain what these mistakes / rules flaws are? Or maybe point me to a thread or blog where they're discussed in detail? Thanks!

The primary "flaw" with SAGA is when it is rolling a skill check against a target's Defense score.  This is because it is very easy to get +10 in a skill via training and focus which completely outclassed early defense scores which are barely over 10 to start with; at the other end defense scores for heroes can outperform skill checks because heroic defense goes up one per level while skill only goes up one every two levels.  At 1st-level you could easily be rolling a skill at d20+12 vs. a Defense 13 (automatic success) but at 20th-level that skill check may be d20+24 vs Defense 38 which is a lot less certain.  This "problem" actually isn't too hard to encounter.

I think we can see that "routinely" being able to hit a 40 result at 8th-level isn't very reasonable.  Now if you try to break the system you probably will be able to do so.  This is going to be true of almost any game as complex as most RPGs.

The other flaw that may be noticable in SAGA is a lack of good GM references and short cuts.  These may not be needed but can definitely help.  I know I actually consider Galaxy at War to be a psuedo "DMG" when it comes to building adventures due to its section on base building.  Calculating CL for things is also rarely, if ever, mentioned which makes evaluating your own creations a bit harder.  Some also wish it was even easier to build an NPC without needing to take too much time referencing everything.
   

The primary "flaw" with SAGA is when it is rolling a skill check against a target's Defense score.  This is because it is very easy to get +10 in a skill via training and focus which completely outclassed early defense scores which are barely over 10 to start with; at the other end defense scores for heroes can outperform skill checks because heroic defense goes up one per level while skill only goes up one every two levels.  At 1st-level you could easily be rolling a skill at d20+12 vs. a Defense 13 (automatic success) but at 20th-level that skill check may be d20+24 vs Defense 38 which is a lot less certain.  This "problem" actually isn't too hard to encounter.


To be clear, skill vs. defense only comes up for Force Users, correct?

So a solution would be to do what 4e does and reduce the Defense bonus to +1 / 2 levels? And forbid Skill Focus (Use the Force)?

The other flaw that may be noticable in SAGA is a lack of good GM references and short cuts.  These may not be needed but can definitely help.  I know I actually consider Galaxy at War to be a psuedo "DMG" when it comes to building adventures due to its section on base building.  Calculating CL for things is also rarely, if ever, mentioned which makes evaluating your own creations a bit harder.  Some also wish it was even easier to build an NPC without needing to take too much time referencing everything.


Yep, I noticed the same. Will check out the Galaxy at War for base building, thanks!
The best "fix" for skills v. Defenses, in my opinion, is to start characters at around 5th-7th level, when the problem isn't really much of a problem anymore.

The game is most enjoyable with mid-level characters, so my solution is to take advantages of the strengths of the system instead of worrying so much about its weaknesses.

Apart from my issues with the surge Force power, I don't really use any house rules. I think this is due to 1) playing at mid-level where the game mechanics are naturally at their best, and 2) not overly optimizing with character builds.
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The best "fix" for skills v. Defenses, in my opinion, is to start characters at around 5th-7th level, when the problem isn't really much of a problem anymore.

The game is most enjoyable with mid-level characters, so my solution is to take advantages of the strengths of the system instead of worrying so much about its weaknesses.

Apart from my issues with the surge Force power, I don't really use any house rules. I think this is due to 1) playing at mid-level where the game mechanics are naturally at their best, and 2) not overly optimizing with character builds.


 Yeah that would work fine, but I would be concerned that it would be overwhelming since we're new to the game. Even a 5th-7th level SWSE character has quite a few feats and talents.

But are you saying that the "Force User problem" described above doesn't exist at mid-levels somehow? Why not?
If you've played other d20 games or 4e, I don't think you'll have a problem picking up saga edition quickly, but you could always do a couple of one shot adventures at lower level to test the waters.

The Force user problem is less at mid level because Defenses have had a chance to catch up to skill modifiers. Say at 1st level you've got a guy with Cha 14 and Skill Focus (Use the Force), his skill modifier will be +12 versus an average Defense of around 12-14, thus any "attack" powers he has are going to be practically auto-success. Skill modifiers only go up at even numbered levels, but defenses (for heroic class characters) go up every level. So at 7th level you're looking at +15 versus Defense of maybe 21-22. Still a better than even chance of success, but no longer guaranteed. Now, if the PC didn't have Skill Focus, it would be +10 instead of +15, basically even odds. At 10th level you'd be looking at +12/+17 versus probably 25+ Defense, so the mechanics tend to even out as you gain in levels (eventually tilting to favor Defenses over Force powers, even with Skill Focus).

A lot depends, though, on whether your players min-max a lot. If they're willing to work with the system rather than just try to build the most optimized possible character, you'll need fewer house rules.
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I'm new to SWSE, can someone explain what these mistakes / rules flaws are? Or maybe point me to a thread or blog where they're discussed in detail? Thanks!



Check out TrappedSlider's "Links to FAQ, Errata, useful sites" thread.  Each of the early sourcebooks has an official errata.  The lattermost ones have none, but there are threads in the Mess Hall with proposed changes for potential errata.  A search for the term "errata" in the Mess Hall forum will reveal these threads.
FAN-MADE SAGA ED. ADVENTURES Scores of free, fan-made Star Wars adventures for Saga Ed. ●DATHOMIR FIELD GUIDE A Saga Ed. sourcebook for adventures set on Dathomir ●LIVE ACTION FILM CHARACTERS SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for hundreds of characters from the live action films ●"ALL-PURPOSE" SAGA EDITION SOURCEBOOK Saga stats for NPCs, droids, ships/vehicles, weapons/gear, etc. ●SAGA EDITION SPECIES SOURCEBOOK Official & fan-made Saga stats for your favorite species ●THE CENTRALITY: A SAGA EDITION GUIDE AND GAZETTEER As featured in The Lando Calrissian Adventures ●THE CORPORATE SECTOR SOURCEBOOK As featured in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels and original edition of the Star Wars RPG ●SAGA EDITION CRIB SHEETS Various fan-made Saga Ed. Crib Sheets for players & GMs
To be clear, skill vs. defense only comes up for Force Users, correct?

So a solution would be to do what 4e does and reduce the Defense bonus to +1 / 2 levels? And forbid Skill Focus (Use the Force)?

No.  The "problem" can actually come up in a few areas where a skill check is rolled against a defense score it is just that it is most obvious when dealing with Force Powers.  There are a number of skill checks which target a character's WILL defense but while these can be devestating they don't cause actual damage and often get ignored.

I quiver to think about using that solution.  Now you could argue that defense scores could go up less quickly (although BAB should also be reduced as well) but that really doesn't solve things at low levels when the problem is the greatest.  Even taking out Skill Focus will not "solve" the problem because +7 or +8 against DEF 12 is still close to automatic.  A houserule "fix" to the problem is to use what I coined as a SAM (Skill Attack Modifier) although there are a couple slightly different variations on it.

I'll also agree with some of what fairytalejedi has been saying.  In a mid level game things don't need to be so bad and often aren't unless a character is trying to "break" some part of the game.  I believe the game works best with characters between levels 5 and 13 and think most game play should happen there.  I'm starting at level 5 because you can progress there very quickly as you earn full XP for everything.  After that I believe in a "realist" world where you'll still be fighting low CL things which will not earn you nearly as much XP as it once did and as you level you'll face fewer and fewer higher CL opponents.  I'm stopping at 13th-level (although it could be a little higher) because I still want to leave room for an occasional super-villian or superhero.
 


I think we can see that "routinely" being able to hit a 40 result at 8th-level isn't very reasonable.  Now if you try to break the system you probably will be able to do so.  This is going to be true of almost any game as complex as most RPGs.




To use one of my favorite quotes, "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy."  Skills are much more than just a D20 plus modifier plus 1/2 level plus training and focus.  There are force powers, force points and equipment bonuses, which you are completely ignoring, that play into all of this.

Take stealth.  The force power cloak can add +5 with a DC 30 (something easy to accomplish at level 8 if you take skill training and skill focus in UTF).  Then add a +5 bonus for a shadowskin.  Meaning that if you roll a 20+3(max dex)+ 4 +10 + another 10 for cloak and shadowskin and you get 47.

It takes no time at all to see these kinds of combinations.
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If it's a well edited, extensively playtested game like Warhammer FRP, I won't buy it. (And if it were a well edited, extensively playtested game from Margaret Weis Productions, I wouldn't go near it with a 10 foot pole. ) So while I'd generally like to see a well edited, extensively playtested game, there's a lot more that would go into my decision making process than that. I'm not opposed to grid maps, but I'm not married to them either. Saga definitely runs better with them than without them (no surprise there) but I have just as much fun (with a lot less prep time) playing our Marvel Super-Heroes game with no maps. So I handle more tactical or less tactical just fine. What I don't want is a big box full of special cards, special dice and other fiddly bits, or a game where my character's sense of humor stat helps determine whether or not I hit the Sith Lord in a lightsaber duel.



I heart TSR Marvel Super Heroes. It's one of my favorite games, and like you, I never used maps for it.

I count myself on the side of those who are feeling some Saga fatigue, or have issues with the rules. I've put my Old Republic campaign on hold until the new RPG from FFG comes out in the hopes that I'll like it better, and that it feels more cinematic nad narrative rather than crunchy and detailed. I don't think tactical combat grids is the right way to go for a space opera game, personally, but I also won't deny that Saga is better than the horrible d20 Revised Core Rulebook WotC put out there.

Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary. I know Saga has a lot of fans here, and I have had some fun with it, but I cannot deny that the more I've played it, the less I've liked it. My fingers are crossed that FFG produces a product which better fits fits my own vision for what a Star Wars role-playing game can and should be.

The beauty of it is, though, role-playing games are never invalidated by new editions. FFG's game will just give us, the Star Wars RPG community, one more option. If you love Saga, great, play that. If you liked WEG's D6 version, awesome, stick with that instead. Now there will be one more choice to put on that list.