Land creatures

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Can lands that become creatures attack the same round in which they where made creatures? Does it matter if the lands have gone through an upkeep? I.e. Genju of the realms and the red planeswalker
When they became a creature is not a factor. When the permanent last came under your control is. No matter whether it was a land or a land creature at the start of your turn, if it has been under your control since then, it can attack and use {T} abilities.
it matters how long they have been under your control
it doesn't matter how long they have been creatures
proud member of the 2011 community team
Can lands that become creatures attack the same round in which they where made creatures?


That depends:  Have they been under your control since the last time you began a turn?
302.6. A creature's activated ability with the tap symbol or the untap symbol in its activation cost can't be activated unless the creature has been under its controller's control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. A creature can't attack unless it has been under its controller's control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. This rule is informally called the "summoning sickness" rule.


Does it matter if the lands have gone through an upkeep?


Not particularly.  Note the total absence of the word "upkeep" from rule 302.6.

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

Now I'm unsure. It seems like Argus posts says creatures need to be controlled for a turn. Does this mean then Genju of the realms can never attack? If its "permanents" then I understand, but if it's "creatures" then what's the point of Genju of the Realms?
If you just played the land from your hand, and changed it into a creature during the same turn, it can't attack.
When you played GENJU does not matter.



«Having gone through an Upkeep» is an old fashion way to establish whether or not a creature has Summoning Sickness.

What you actually need to ask yourself is «How LONG have I had this OBJECT under my control?» 

If the answer is «I have controlled this object -without interruption- since before my most recent turn began»,
then you don't have to worry about Summoning Sickness.

Again, I'm talking about the LAND, not about GENJU.


 

And remember: Summoning Sickness only affects CREATURES;
Lands, Artifacts, Enchantments an Planeswalkers do not care about Summoning Sickness.
(unless they ALSO are Creatures!)  

Now I'm unsure. It seems like Argus posts says creatures need to be controlled for a turn. Does this mean then Genju of the realms can never attack? If its "permanents" then I understand, but if it's "creatures" then what's the point of Genju of the Realms?

by "creature" he means "that permanent that is now a creature"

as I said, it doesn't matter how long it was a creature, and nothing Argus said contradicts that.
proud member of the 2011 community team
Now I'm unsure. It seems like Argus posts says creatures need to be controlled for a turn. Does this mean then Genju of the realms can never attack? If its "permanents" then I understand, but if it's "creatures" then what's the point of Genju of the Realms?


What the rule depends on: Have they been under your control since the last time you began a turn?

NOT what the rule depends on: Have they been creatures since the last time you began a turn?

No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.

Does this mean then Genju of the realms can never attack?

Yes, that's correct: Genju of the Realm can never* attack and can never block.
It is the LAND it enchants that will attack or block.

Genju is simply an enchantment you tag onto some Land.
That enchantment will change that Land into a creature.
It is that Land-Creature that will attack. Not the enchantment.

For purpose of Summoning Sickness, you have to check the Land: How long have you controlled that Land?








*«never» is a pretty bold word in Magic! I'm sure there is a way to attack with Genju! 

*«never» is a pretty bold word in Magic! I'm sure there is a way to attack with Genju!

The only two sure "nevers": The ability to concede will never be removed, and there will never be more than 5 colors. And I wouldn't swear about the second one.

off to UnLand!
proud member of the 2011 community team
I'm actually pretty sure it is impossible to attack with Genju; if it becomes a creature, it unattaches, which then sends it to the graveyard.
56965458 wrote:
As long as it's random, I really can't see where's the problem. Anyway, there's already a few standard ways for doing this. We listed them in this thread. If someone does the bogey-bogey, eats the cards, waits until they come out, look out the approximate order, place replacements in the same order, calls the president to ask him to give him a string of numbers, puts the card in the given order, then pick the cards in the order given by taking the date of birth of his opponent, reversed, and taking only every other number, then a judge can clearly declare that he's random enough.
56874518 wrote:
The beauty of sarcasm is that when the person using it is totally incorrect, you can just remove the sarcasm and end up with a post that is actually correct.
I'm actually pretty sure it is impossible to attack with Genju; if it becomes a creature, it unattaches, which then sends it to the graveyard.

Why would a creature go to the graveyard for not being attached?
it would have to lose the "Aura" type, in addition to becoming a creature
proud member of the 2011 community team
Why would a creature go to the graveyard for not being attached?

704.5n If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard.




Why would a creature go to the graveyard for not being attached?

704.5n If an Aura is attached to an illegal object or player, or is not attached to an object or player, that Aura is put into its owner’s graveyard.


That applies to auras, not creatures, so that doesn't answer my question.

If it's no longer an aura, the rule doesn't apply since it only applies to auras.

If it's still an aura, the rule doesn't apply since the aura wouldn't have detacted.

and the creature is still an aura so it applies

205.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [type, supertype, or subtype].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.


 

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If it's still an aura, the rule doesn't apply since the aura wouldn't have detacted.

You forget the possibility that Genju becomes a Creature-Enchantment-Elf-Aura.

704.5q If a creature is attached to an object or player, it becomes unattached and remains on the battlefield...





and the creature is still an aura so it applies

If it didn't stop being an aura, why would it have detached? [ Nevermind, Chaikov answered before I asked ]
and the creature is still an aura so it applies

If it didn't stop being an aura, why would it have detached?





303.4d. An Aura can't enchant itself. If this occurs somehow, the Aura is put into its owner's graveyard. An Aura that's also a creature can't enchant anything. If this occurs somehow, the Aura becomes unattached, then is put into its owner's graveyard. (These are state-based actions. See rule 704.) An Aura can't enchant more than one object or player. If a spell or ability would cause an Aura to become attached to more than one object or player, the Aura's controller chooses which object or player it becomes attached to.

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