Duels 2013 Buglist - Please post your bugs here!

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Goblin arsonist didn't allow me to choose to damage a player.

Opponent plays Incremental Blight and kills 3 of my creatures. Goblin arsonist immediatly goes to choosing a creature to deal damage to. I attempted to go back but nothing worked.

Should be noted that when it became my turn again the game had to sync so there's a small chance that was the issue.
Hi new here and this is my first post, im also new to Duel2013, PC version. maybe this is already posted but the intro video stutters, so i rename all video *.wmv to something else, which makes the game loads faster.
Here's another bug, the following rule does not apply in the game:

509.1h An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as blockers for it becomes a blocked creature; one with no creatures declared as blockers for it becomes an unblocked creature. This remains unchanged until the creature is removed from combat, an effect says that it becomes blocked or unblocked, or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first. A creature remains blocked even if all the creatures blocking it are removed from combat.


It simply doesn't work, if you kill the blocker your creature will now deal combat damage to your opponent.




Trample

Yeah, it should work under normal circumstances. You can, for example, sacrifice a blocker during the combat phase and still get no damage from the attacking creature.
.....Wow!

Thanks very much to everyone who has posted on this thread. I am in the process of collecting together all the new information and adding it to the initial post. Thanks to those who have confirmed bugs, I've moved those to the all important "confirmed" section.

I hope that for each report I have either recorded it on my list, or it's been explained why it's not a bug by another user (I appreciate this, thanks!) or I have explained about it below. If anyone wants further explanations, rules quotes etc, please ask and I'll be happy to oblige. If you think I have overlooked your bug for some reason, please let me know. Some reports have been to do with things that are "design decisions", simplifications of the rules which are intended by the designers, however unwisely, so I have excluded these from the bugs list as they are unlikely to change. Another "request for changes" thread would be in order for that kind of thing!

A few very good points have been brought up regarding how this thread works, and some rules concerns have been floating around, so here's my feedback on these. Thanks very much for all who have made suggestions, and for checking the validity of bugs. 

Checking whether you have a bug:
If you are reporting a bug about the rules of Magic not properly being followed, please consider first checking it by posting it in the Rules Q&A thread for this forum. There it can be analyzed, and myself and other users can help you see if it's a real bug or some sort of misunderstanding. After doing this, or if you're virtually 100% sure the rules are being violated, then feel free to post it directly to here.


Technical issues:
I agree that techical issues are so numerous, varied and system specific that to include them in this general bug list is going to cause problems. Therefore I started another thread which is specifically for technical issues. Please make use of this. I will transfer to that everything here that I consider to be more of a technical than gameplay/rules error. Some are borderline, sorry if anyone disagrees with my categorization. I'll move them back/forth if anyone feels strongly about any, please let me know.


Randomization:
A lot has been said about randomization of shuffling. This has been brought up many times before, and without seeing the code there is no way of knowing exactly how the decks are being shuffled. But all I can say is a shuffling algorithm which is purely random is extremely easy to program (I've done so even when I was a kid on my C64) and I find it hard to believe they have failed to do this. According to the rules shuffling should be truly random, so there is no reason it should try and emulate "real" shuffling with physical cards, which technically isn't following the rules if it's anything other than purely random. I don't wish to offend anyone, but it's my general opinion that noticing skewed "randomization" is most likely observation bias: you pay attention when something unusual happens, but not when things are normal. It's the basis of "sods law". I don't think much can be gained my further discussion on this. Feel free to disagree with me, but I can't really quantify any reports since a proper analysis would require careful note taking over millions of games to have any validity.


Exalted:
Yes, exalted "stacks". Here's the rules explanation:

702.81a Exalted is a triggered ability. “Exalted” means “Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.”
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.

(Note that this means exalted bonuses from your permanents don't apply to your partner's lone attacker; as you don't control your partner's creatures.)

112.2c An object may have multiple abilities. If the object is represented by a card, then aside from certain defined abilities that may be strung together on a single line (see rule 702, “Keyword Abilities” ), each paragraph break in a card’s text marks a separate ability. If the object is not represented by a card, the effect that created it may have given it multiple abilities. An object may also be granted additional abilities by a spell or ability. If an object has multiple instances of the same ability, each instance functions independently. This may or may not produce more effects than a single instance; refer to the specific ability for more information.

In some cases, having multiple instances of the same abilities causes "stacking" effects, sometimes they are redundant. It depends on the ability. In the case of triggered abilities, they look for their trigger condition, and they trigger. They all trigger, so they all resolve, so they stack. Abilities that just grant a certain "quality", such as flying, unblockable, being green etc. all function independently but it makes no difference how many times you have that ability. Either you have that quality, or you don't. Lifelink/deathtouch are oddballs: they used to stack, because they used to be triggered abilities. But with the M10 rules change, they were radically altered to specifically not stack. They are now qualities rather than triggered abilities, and all that matters is whether a source has them or not. The rules make this clear, eg:

702.14e Multiple instances of lifelink on the same object are redundant.

As further evidence, no such mention of reduncancy exists for Exalted in the rules.

For more information about this and the M10 changes, see here. To download the "comprehensive rules", see here. Although this is a massive and daunting document, it can still be used to look specific things up rather quickly. Scroll right to the end, and you'll find the glossary. Seek out the ability you are concerned with, and follow the rule number(s) listed to find its entry in the rules. You can than see if multiples of that ability are redundant. If so, it's clearly stated; otherwise, they are not redundant.


May/must:
It seems that in general they have made the (wise) decision to allow you to decline to take certain actions when they are written as optional, whereas in D12 you were usually forced to take the action if it's considered mainly beneficial. There seem to be some exceptions noted, which I have taken down as bugs. Some things tip-toe around this issue, by letting you not choose targets by pressing the "cancel" or "proceed" button, and so declining the effects. This is not actually rules accurate, you are usually required to pick the target and then decide on resolution whether or not to proceed with the effect, but this achieves pretty much the same goal. Look out for the prompt onscreen if you want to decline when asked to choose targets!


Medallions and kicker costs:
Yes, Medallions can reduce the total cost, effectively "paying for" some/all of extra costs like kicker. You take the initial mana cost, add any alternative costs, and then make any reductions.

601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can’t be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes “locked in.” If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.

702.31a Kicker is a static ability that functions while the spell with kicker is on the stack. “Kicker [cost]” means “You may pay an additional [cost] as you cast this spell.” Paying a spell’s kicker cost(s) follows the rules for paying additional costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e–g.


Question about triggered abilities:
I was asked by dslatimore:

Ok, cool, I thought triggered abilities could go on the stack (but not resolve yet) in the middle of something else resolving.  For example, if I cast Divination while you have Consecrated Sphinx, do the Sphinxes draw triggers not go on the stack until I've drawn all my cards?

That is correct. Usually nothing can be put on the stack while a spell/ability is resolving. Here's the rules that explain this with regard to triggered abilities:

603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.

116.2e Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”

This also explains why an Archeomancer token created by Rite of Replication is able to retrieve the Rite used to create it. By the time the ability is put on the stack, the Rite is in the graveyard (as the last part of it resolving).




AI cheating/being stupid:
It's been reported that the AI "knows" what card is on top of your library, for example when to attack with Goblin Guide. This is true, the AI does know, and does cheat in this way. It did so in Duels 2012. This was widely reported and it hasn't changed, so I can only assume that they are OK with the AI cheating, or are not able to come up with a way of allowing the AI to make the "probability estimates" that an actual player has to. Also, the AI can be amazingly dumb, especially on mage but (in my experience with D12) even on planeswalker difficulty. I don't think reporting this is going to get far either, since this was also widely stated before.



I am a Rules advisor. Feel free to send me any questions as a private message! Check if you have found a bug in Duels 2013 Report a bug Report a technical issue I have written several guides to help new DoTP players here, move to the first post to start reading. They are also in Wordpress format here. The principles involved should still be useful for Duels 2013!
Useful links:
Find other DoTP players - a database of friendly players, find a match or post your name here to be added to the list! I'll add a D13 section if anyone would like. Ask a rules question - ask anything about DoTP, Magic in general, or to check out if you've found a bug by asking if the rules are being followed. Community thread for general chatter in the DoTP part of the forum! Guide to Yugioh on Xbox live: A beginner's guide focusing on the similarities and differences to Magic.
Ah robvalue, makes me sad that the AI cheating is built in. O well guess I will have to give goblin guide a little more respect then. Anyways, thanks for the heads up that ability to know my top card was bugging me so at least now I know I got to deal with it. Also, thank you for compiling all this info, I have been trying to keep up with all these bug reports and clarify where I could, but jeez it is daunting. So good on you for taking care of all this my good sir. Thanks again.
Yeah, the amount of effort robvalue makes for a game he doesn't even play is quite astonishing, so thank you for that ;)
Thank you very much guys, I appreciate it and you are most welcome Yes, it sucks about the cheating AI Makes playing against it much less fun and I'm disappointed to see this shortcut taken in the code. It shouldn't be that way and spoils the experience, but unless Wizards decides this is a valid issue I guess we are stuck with it.

I've finished pulling out all the technical problems now and put them in the other thread, now I've got a list of remaining possible bugs to look through which I will get to soon and add to the list where appropriate.

I've edited my post below with more information as well
I am a Rules advisor. Feel free to send me any questions as a private message! Check if you have found a bug in Duels 2013 Report a bug Report a technical issue I have written several guides to help new DoTP players here, move to the first post to start reading. They are also in Wordpress format here. The principles involved should still be useful for Duels 2013!
Useful links:
Find other DoTP players - a database of friendly players, find a match or post your name here to be added to the list! I'll add a D13 section if anyone would like. Ask a rules question - ask anything about DoTP, Magic in general, or to check out if you've found a bug by asking if the rules are being followed. Community thread for general chatter in the DoTP part of the forum! Guide to Yugioh on Xbox live: A beginner's guide focusing on the similarities and differences to Magic.
Skipping the above issues with targeting on the receiving end of the spell, here's a new bug.

When I played Wheel and Deal, 2-player game against Talrand in the campaign, the game automatically targeted him.  I was not given a choice to target or not.




Confirmed.



Thank you.


Just to add to this, simplified targeting is not turned on.


Can anyone check this in multiplayer and see if it just auto-targets all opponents?


I'm noticing - never stopped to think about it before - many "target opponent" card auto-target in 1v1.  eg, [c]Mind Scuplt[c].  The problem here, just to be clear on the bug list, is the inability to choose no targets.


The amount of misunderstandings in this thread is over-the-top.


yes, but that has to be figured out somewhere.  Scattering it would just be worse.  I think reviewing and making a summary is a good plan.
What might be useful, though, is reminding people to edit their explained not-a-bug confusions aftwards to keep the thread simpler.  (and to stop one misunderstanding from getting 4 different people all feeling the need to give the exact same explanation....)
Ok. I'm pretty sure this is a bug. 
I was playing the encounter Righteous Angers (you know with all the lighting helix's) and three times the opponent killed a creature with lighting helix, although the creature had more then 3 thoughness.  First of he killed my Archon of Redemption. Which is odd of course. After that he killed my Ajani's Pridemate with 2 counters on it and last but not least he killed my Serra Ascendant, while I was at 30+ life and I've put two Celestial Mantle's on my ascendant (that was just for fun to see how high my life could get, but he killed her before I could pas the 10000).
I'm going to try to recreate it, but I still think it's odd. 
Ok. I'm pretty sure this is a bug. 
I was playing the encounter Righteous Angers (you know with all the lighting helix's) and three times the opponent killed a creature with lighting helix, although the creature had more then 3 thoughness.  First of he killed my Archon of Redemption. Which is odd of course. After that he killed my Ajani's Pridemate[\c] with 2 counters on it and last but not least he killed my [c]Serra Ascendant, while I was at 30+ life and I've put two Celestial Mantle's on my ascendant (that was just for fun to see how high my life could get, but he killed her before I could pas the 10000).
I'm going to try to recreate it, but I still think it's odd. 


Was Fire Servant in play?

When near the start of a Planeswalker single player game (free iPad version), I obtained 4 extra cards to my deck.  Then I was asked to remove 4 because my deck was too large.  It put up all my deck in the across the middle of the screen (medium sized cards all glowing) and the text below them said:

"You have too many cards in your hand. Please discard 4. (Drag a card to selec"

The cut-off sentence is what is shown, it's not my typo.

When I try to drag a card up or down or sideways and either reach the end of the screen or let go, the card simply returns to the middle of the screen.  So I don't seem to have a way to continue this particular game (I can reset the game of course to play more games, but I was hoping to actually win this one since I had been given 4 extra cards at the start !!).

I have a screenshot which I've posted into a support ticket I also raised. 

 
Did you try to just... click, not drag, the cards? 
Ok. I'm pretty sure this is a bug. 
I was playing the encounter Righteous Angers (you know with all the lighting helix's) and three times the opponent killed a creature with lighting helix, although the creature had more then 3 thoughness.  First of he killed my Archon of Redemption. Which is odd of course. After that he killed my Ajani's Pridemate[\c] with 2 counters on it and last but not least he killed my [c]Serra Ascendant, while I was at 30+ life and I've put two Celestial Mantle's on my ascendant (that was just for fun to see how high my life could get, but he killed her before I could pas the 10000).
I'm going to try to recreate it, but I still think it's odd. 


Was Fire Servant in play?




Eeeehmmm, it might be possible that I read Fire Elemental and went on with my life of ranting brainlessly on forums
Did you try to just... click, not drag, the cards? 



There is no way to single click the cards (well touch them since this is the iPad).  I can double click them fine to get them large and back again, but the action of a single click only brings the card to the front on the "slider" that shows the whole deck.  I still have it open on the iPad in the hope I can eventually carry on.
Taunting Elf is broken.

@5:10
Multiplayer bug(s) I've encountered (XBOX version):

In ranked matches AI takover is default ON.  As a result, after an opponent concedes a ranked match you still have to finish your opponent off facing an computer AI.

When attacking with multiple creatures against a human opponent, I cannot simply mash the "A" button to get them all to attack.  I have to hit A, and my cursor will stay on the creature I last issued to attack, and then I will have to keystick over to the next creature, and hit "A" again, over and over again.  Very annoying when playing token decks.  Interesting enough, after my opponent concedes and the AI takeover happens I can mash the "A" button once more to get all my creatures to attack.
Leaderboards for Xbox Live are still bugged. After winning a ranked match (I haven't lost yet) I dropped 900+ rank to 1034.



This is not a bug and never has been.  If you beat someone who is a lower rank than you, you can actually lose rank yourself based on the True Skill math formula.  You can find more information about how True Skill works on the internet.

This is exactly why the Leaderboards for this game are not a reliable test or indication of exactly how skillful someone is.
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Did you try to just... click, not drag, the cards? 



There is no way to single click the cards (well touch them since this is the iPad).  I can double click them fine to get them large and back again, but the action of a single click only brings the card to the front on the "slider" that shows the whole deck.  I still have it open on the iPad in the hope I can eventually carry on.



Ok hold the fort, I got antsy and tried dragging a card I wanted to keep in the pack, and it took 4 away.  So it seems the issue was with it not showing in an obvious way that I had in fact selected cards to be removed as it was returning them to the pack.  Once I had dragged a 4th away it worked.
Taunting Elf is broken.

@5:10


Hm, good catch.  That's disappointing.  
Taunting Elf is broken.

@5:10


Hm, good catch.  That's disappointing.  


But nothing new. The same effect could happen in 2012 with creatures that had to attack each turn. 
When attacking with multiple creatures against a human opponent, I cannot simply mash the "A" button to get them all to attack.  I have to hit A, and my cursor will stay on the creature I last issued to attack, and then I will have to keystick over to the next creature, and hit "A" again, over and over again.  Very annoying when playing token decks.  Interesting enough, after my opponent concedes and the AI takeover happens I can mash the "A" button once more to get all my creatures to attack.



I noticed this and it's super annoying.  The highlight selector stays on the creature you just selected to attack so you have to keep dragging it down to select a new creature to attack with. 

Taunting Elf is broken.

@5:10


Hm, good catch.  That's disappointing.  


But nothing new. The same effect could happen in 2012 with creatures that had to attack each turn. 



I had the opportunity to test this online on PS3 and everything worked as it should.  I deselcted my blockers and passed priority but all my creatures blocked Taunting Elf.

Opponents can target a creature with Ring of Evos Isle equipped after the hexproof ability is activated but before it resolves.
I was playing a 2HG and my partner cast  Disaster Radius and it killed my creatures too. This one on the xbox live version.


Spell specifically says opponents.


Also I know people gonna hate but I noticed that there is an extra deck when playing 2hg that appears where Garruk appears if you do not alter the screen. The deck is called "saving Aura's" and is a blue/white. I took the time to write down some of the cards as I've played against it a couple times. I'm pretty certain this is meant to be an expansion deck.        
Opponents can target a creature with Ring of Evos Isle equipped after the hexproof ability is activated but before it resolves.



That is entirely correct. The creature doesn't gain Hexproof until the ability resolves, so if they respond to your activation with another spell it will hit the creature.
Opponents can target a creature with Ring of Evos Isle equipped after the hexproof ability is activated but before it resolves.



I don't think this is a bug.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

When you pay 2 to activate the ability it goes on the stack, it doesn't become hexproof right away.  Your opponent then responds with say Incinerate so it goes on top of the stack and if nothing else is played resolves first.  This is why you can target it.

If you payed another 2 mana after the Incinerate then that would go on top of the stack and resolve first thus granting hexproof.  The incinerate would be checked again to see if the target is legal and because it has hexproof it would be declared as an illegal target.



  • I attacked with a 4/4 creature, Talrand blocked with two 2/2 drakes and played Hydrosurge on my creature.  The game asked me which of the two drakes I wanted to deal -1 damage to. [Should be zero damage even with -1 power, looks like display error]



Looks like it prompts for assigning 0 damage from a Taunting Elf, too.
Even if it's some techinical nitpicky rules thing about blocking, I'm thinking it's bad UI to insist on it (what with other nitpicky technical things that were skippable like the mana pool)

The question remains, though, what happens if it's forcing a selection with no damage and the attacker has Deathtouch or some other triggered effect?
I'm not sure I can get the AI to test that, any humans able to set it up?

Robvalue, or someone else with the REALLY techincal knowledge of the rules and timing, do we have an official rules citation and/or explanation of the Rite of Replication / Archeomancer issue a few pages back?

I see the Jace's Phantasm / Prey Upon issue was nicely explained by reference to the rule on timing of checking for death as a state effect.  That doesn't address the Replication timing, which is a question of putting the Replicate in the discard pile vs resolving enter's play effects of the token it creates.

If it is working properly, is there any case to be made that it's a bug for putting an infinite loop in the deck design? 
Technically you do still have to order creatures to receive damage even if your creature has zero damage. Although the order should be chosen right after blocking giving you the chance to respond before damage. I assume it still wrongly makes you chose right before damage is dealt instead?

But it shouldn't ask you to assign -1 damage, I recognize this as a D12 problem as has been noted, so no new engine then. It will be interesting to see if a deathtouch creature having its power reduced to zero still destroys something, like it can in D12 (if gang blocked by a human player only). It asks you to assign 0 damage to the first creature, then -1 to the next, and then the first one ends up being destroyed which of course it shouldn't. I am suspicious that this will still be the case.

Another D12 bug I'd be interested to see if it still exists is if I pump up my Furnace Whelp (or other pump creature) and you use Unsummon on it (or similar). I recast it that turn and it still has its pump up bonus in effect.
I am a Rules advisor. Feel free to send me any questions as a private message! Check if you have found a bug in Duels 2013 Report a bug Report a technical issue I have written several guides to help new DoTP players here, move to the first post to start reading. They are also in Wordpress format here. The principles involved should still be useful for Duels 2013!
Useful links:
Find other DoTP players - a database of friendly players, find a match or post your name here to be added to the list! I'll add a D13 section if anyone would like. Ask a rules question - ask anything about DoTP, Magic in general, or to check out if you've found a bug by asking if the rules are being followed. Community thread for general chatter in the DoTP part of the forum! Guide to Yugioh on Xbox live: A beginner's guide focusing on the similarities and differences to Magic.
and another old issue that's still a bug,

The timing of simultaneous actions between players is not correct.

For example, Reality Shaping.  All players may put a permanent into play.  It insisits I choose my permanent without going in turn order, so I don't know any of my opponents' choices yet.
Which brings up the point that I have no idea what priority timing it gives to the chosen permanents entering play.  For example, if this triggers on the first turn and everyone selects an Aether Adept, we know what *should* happen, but what would the game do?

Anyways, the general problem holds true for choices from Liliana's Specter and so on.  It prompts *you*, then resolves all the AI.  That is not correct.
Robvalue, or someone else with the REALLY techincal knowledge of the rules and timing, do we have an official rules citation and/or explanation of the Rite of Replication / Archeomancer issue a few pages back?

I see the Jace's Phantasm / Prey Upon issue was nicely explained by reference to the rule on timing of checking for death as a state effect.  That doesn't address the Replication timing, which is a question of putting the Replicate in the discard pile vs resolving enter's play effects of the token it creates.

If it is working properly, is there any case to be made that it's a bug for putting an infinite loop in the deck design? 



Yeah sure.

Rite of Replication is resolving, and it creates a token of the Archeomancer. This triggers the enter-the-battlefield ability of the token:

603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers.The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.

Now the ability is floating around, having being triggered, but doesn't do anything at all, not even choose targets, until it can be put on the stack.

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.

116.3b The active player receives priority after a spell or ability (other than a mana ability) resolves.

116.2e Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving. See rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities.”

The above rules show you that no one gets priority while the spell is resolving, so it cannot go on the stack. You don't receive priority until after the spell has finished resolving, as stated above.

608.2k As the final part of an instant or sorcery spell’s resolution, the spell is put into its owner’s graveyard. As the final part of an ability’s resolution, the ability is removed from the stack and ceases to exist.

So it is put into the graveyard, and it has finished resolving. Then you would gain priority, so the ability is put onto the stack, and targets are chosen. Since the spell is now in the graveyard, it's a valid target. It is indeed a possible infinite loop, but not a cheap or scary one particularly ;)

The important part is that even though abilities trigger while events/spells/abilities are happening, they don't go onto the stack until a player would receive priority, which is always after the event/spell/ability has finished. I have made a flow diagram which shows how all this works, I've been trying to find a way to post it onto here but have been failing!
I am a Rules advisor. Feel free to send me any questions as a private message! Check if you have found a bug in Duels 2013 Report a bug Report a technical issue I have written several guides to help new DoTP players here, move to the first post to start reading. They are also in Wordpress format here. The principles involved should still be useful for Duels 2013!
Useful links:
Find other DoTP players - a database of friendly players, find a match or post your name here to be added to the list! I'll add a D13 section if anyone would like. Ask a rules question - ask anything about DoTP, Magic in general, or to check out if you've found a bug by asking if the rules are being followed. Community thread for general chatter in the DoTP part of the forum! Guide to Yugioh on Xbox live: A beginner's guide focusing on the similarities and differences to Magic.
Technically you do still have to order creatures to receive damage even if your creature has zero damage. Although the order should be chosen right after blocking giving you the chance to respond before damage. I assume it still wrongly makes you chose right before damage is dealt instead?


Correct, it asks at damage dealing time.
Given the way the game skips over other obvious or impossible choices then it seems like a silly step to insist on.  For example, if you have no creatures that are capable of blocking an attacker, it doesn't force you to click a button to finalize the assign blocking step, so why should it hold up on a creature incapable of doing damage?  Or another example, when Mana Leak resolves the game will ask if you want to pay 3 only if you have 3 available, if you have less than 3 it doesn't prompt you.
Though now that I've said that, I realize that Kickers are one case where it always prompts you even if irrelevant.

and another old issue that's still a bug,

The timing of simultaneous actions between players is not correct.

For example, Reality Shaping.  All players may put a permanent into play.  It insisits I choose my permanent without going in turn order, so I don't know any of my opponents' choices yet.
Which brings up the point that I have no idea what priority timing it gives to the chosen permanents entering play.  For example, if this triggers on the first turn and everyone selects an Aether Adept, we know what *should* happen, but what would the game do?

Anyways, the general problem holds true for choices from Liliana's Specter and so on.  It prompts *you*, then resolves all the AI.  That is not correct.



In the case of Reality Shaping, it refers to "you", the player who encounters it. Whichever player that is decides first which permanent to put onto the battlefield, or to refuse. After that, the next player in turn order chooses, knowing this information. Then the next player in turn order, knowing what the first 2 did, and so on. So the order should depend on who encountered it. Are you saying you always choose blind regardless?

For other cards where everyone makes a decision simultaneously like Innocent Blood, it should always be the active player who chooses first, then the next player in turn order, and so on, so everyone knows the previous decisions. This was done all wrong in D12, and I reported it constantly. Looks like they didn't listen. 

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So it is put into the graveyard, and it has finished resolving. Then you would gain priority, so the ability is put onto the stack, and targets are chosen. Since the spell is now in the graveyard, it's a valid target. It is indeed a possible infinite loop, but not a cheap or scary one particularly ;)



Ok, good explanation.  So the triggered effect is not "part of" the Replication, but is the "very next thing".  Got it.

As to the severity of the combo...  at 4 mana the ability to turn out an Archeomancer every turn at no net card cost isn't too shabby.
9 mana to replicate Archeomancers for both the replication itself and a Time Warp is still repeating a double-turn for every one turn of the opponent's.  That's not bad.
And as for the likelyhood, I managed to get that 9-mana version going twice just between the time I unlocked Time Warp and the time I unlocked the second Replication, so twice out of maybe 6 or 7 games (5 unlocks, but I lost a game or two in between).
I actualy got the 14 mana version going once, but it really didn't matter - I did it by Replicating the opponent's Rune-Scarred Demon and at that point any 5 cards would have been sufficient to bring the game to a conclusion.  But I will point out that the reason that game deadlocked for so long to get all that mana was because I kept producing an Archeomancer every turn to throw in front of Liliana's Shade.
Anyways, I digress.... 
In the case of Reality Shaping, it refers to "you", the player who encounters it. Whichever player that is decides first which permanent to put onto the battlefield, or to refuse. After that, the next player in turn order chooses, knowing this information. Then the next player in turn order, knowing what the first 2 did, and so on. So the order should depend on who encountered it. Are you saying you always choose blind regardless?


Exactly.  Another player triggers Reality Shaping and the first thing the UI does is ask me to choose a permanent from my hand.
That's why I'm not even sure what order it triggers all of them entering play - I'll have to see if I can observe that somehow, if it comes up when I have a permanent with some ability.


For other cards where everyone makes a decision simultaneously like Innocent Blood, it should always be the active player who chooses first, then the next player in turn order, and so on, so everyone knows the previous decisions. This was done all wrong in D12, and I reported it constantly. Looks like they didn't listen.


I want to say that an opponent's Innocent Blood asked me to sacrifice something first, not 100% sure, I'll keep an eye out for it.

The bigger issue in Planechase, though, is that it seems it's always asking me first, regardless of where it starts.  North plays a card affecting all players, then whether the code thinks they should go first or they should go last, East should always be affected before South.  I'm pretty sure that the UI doesn't handle it that way, it makes me choose blindly before anything else, no matter who starts the effect.  I'll confirm this for sure (though if they have to fix the starting point anyways additional testing may be irrelevant).
Actually, it'd be interesting to see what it does it I'm the one playing Innocent Blood in Planechase...  I haven't played the black deck much, it didn't strike my fancy.  You can probalby tell I've been playing both blue decks and Garruk and that's pretty much it so far.
I was playing a 2HG and my partner cast  Disaster Radius and it killed my creatures too. This one on the xbox live version.


Spell specifically says opponents.


Also I know people gonna hate but I noticed that there is an extra deck when playing 2hg that appears where Garruk appears if you do not alter the screen. The deck is called "saving Aura's" and is a blue/white. I took the time to write down some of the cards as I've played against it a couple times. I'm pretty certain this is meant to be an expansion deck.        



This one literally just happened to me too in 2HG. Exact same bug.

Regarding this new deck, how did you manage to see it?



Yes you go to custom match 2HG. I've only done this playing with a local partner, so not sure if it shows up with AI only. When you enter the deck selection screen you have you and your partners deck and then you can chose your opponents. Before touching anything if you look @ the opponents deck you will see Azusa pic and her deck is kind of "greened-out" and has title
"Saving Aura's". You'll see it easily as it has a pic of her instead of any of the other 10

If you go over and change the decks you cannot find it again other than going back and reentering the screen.
Ok, sorry if this had been posted before.

When the timer on the opposing clock runs out, it doesn't pass the turn.  They can just sit there.   
I guess if we're looking at engine-level bugs carried over from 2012 (such as -1 combat damage and "all players" sequencing) then there's a huge one to test for if anyone sees an opportunity:
in 2012, multiplayer FFA would get stuck on a dead player's turn if the player died when they normally wouldn't be expected to.
For example, death during upkeep - The Rack, Pillory of the Sleepless - or during combat immediately after declaring attackers.  (before you ask, why am I waiting for them to attack me before hitting them with Shock?  because there was a chance they'd have attacked the other guy.  Remember, multiplayer.)
If anyone gets a chance to test that, I would bet they didn't fix it.

which kind of means maybe they didn't fix *ANYTHING*, they just didn't re-use any of the old broken cards like Lavaborn Muse or Woebringer Demon.  There are no "choose one" cards like Final Revels or Slagstorm, so no fussing over the AI not telling you what mode it's in.  Is there even any Devour or Bloodlust that would error with Rise from the Grave the way it used to with Beacon of Unrest?  Is there any card that was on the 2012 bug list that's in a 2013 deck???
edit - yes I see one!  Wolfbriar Elemental.  The bug with something like Doomblade stopping the enters play effect.  Time to test!  um...  maybe I need another human to test with, not sure the AI will cooperate.

I guess if we're looking at engine-level bugs carried over from 2012 (such as -1 combat damage and "all players" sequencing) then there's a huge one to test for if anyone sees an opportunity:
in 2012, multiplayer FFA would get stuck on a dead player's turn if the player died when they normally wouldn't be expected to.
For example, death during upkeep - The Rack, Pillory of the Sleepless - or during combat immediately after declaring attackers.  (before you ask, why am I waiting for them to attack me before hitting them with Shock?  because there was a chance they'd have attacked the other guy.  Remember, multiplayer.)
If anyone gets a chance to test that, I would bet they didn't fix it.

which kind of means maybe they didn't fix *ANYTHING*, they just didn't re-use any of the old broken cards like Lavaborn Muse or Woebringer Demon.  There are no "choose one" cards like Final Revels or Slagstorm, so no fussing over the AI not telling you what mode it's in.  Is there even any Devour or Bloodlust that would error with Rise from the Grave the way it used to with Beacon of Unrest?  Is there any card that was on the 2012 bug list that's in a 2013 deck???
edit - yes I see one!  Wolfbriar Elemental.  The bug with something like Doomblade stopping the enters play effect.  Time to test!  um...  maybe I need another human to test with, not sure the AI will cooperate.



If you don't have anyone to test with (and you have the game on steam) I can help you.
steamcommunity.com/id/RonaldRailgun