Dual casting Spells? Team work abilities!

An idea that came to mind but I am wondering if it would ever work in D&D.

I don't mean casting two spells at once from one player. I mean two players casting a spell together to make a completely different and really powerful spell.

Taking two characters from your team working together, Leveling up together and becoming best friends. Lets make them Ivan the sorcerer and Mordo the Wizard.

So Ivan grows and becomes a more powerful mage and Mordo has gained great knowledge of the arcane arts and has studied and worked hard to achieve his wisdom. So now they begin working together and have gained a new "level" of power after a previous fight. So now they sit together and wonder if there is a way they as a team could fight more efficiently together and begin training and working together to learn a completely new kind of spell. A spell that would require cooperation and teamwork from both of them to cast it!

So later on they learn a spell that they can both cast together, Lets make it something like a gorenado! LULZ! Ivan is a blood mage who uses the blood of fallen foes and his own to cast powerful attacking acid like spell and Mordo has this mini tornado spell. well they found a way to combine it into a gore tornado the Gorenado! A Acid bloody damaging tornado that does like tons of damage over a cone area!

I imagine the character with the higher initiative takes time to ready himself and holds his action while when the next characters turn he also does the same. So both characters forfeit their first turn to ready this action and on the higher initiative characters turn they would unleash the spell.

Of course spells like these would MUST have benefits and be completely just for forfeit a whole turn just to cast the spell but I think adding a modest amount of side options like these could make team.

Also more feats like the shield wall for fighters or paladins where two characters standing together with shields of the tower variety or others would gain ac bonuses or combo attacks between fighters that work the same way as combo magic as spell casters do!

Finding ways to make Two barbarians raging together gain additional benefits from both of them raging along side another! Or maybe even cross classing it and having a combo attack between A sorcerer and a Fighter or maybe something really awesome like have a 3 way where A bard plays a quick song that hypnotizes the fighter into believing he is some sorta angry melee god which doubles his crit range and adds 1D6 damage extra, the wizard casts a strength + speed spell that allows him an extra attack and doubles his strength modifier for one round and fighter goes all berserk on the enemy or something fun like that.

I think it could be done and a lot of fun if balanced right and to keep these at a modest but plentiful level enough to have some options!
Teamwork abilities would be cool.

Easy way to handle them would be to have something like Page 42 of the 4E DMG.  Give guidelines on how powerful combo-attacks should be and what rolls to ask for, and have players come up with those abilities for themselves on the fly or whenever.
Teamwork abilities would be cool.

Agreed. The paradigm merits consideration; maybe not for the core rules (which need to be light) but for add-ons.

But even in the core rules I would expect a basic mechanic for aiding others.


Magicka ftw!
I was discussing this not long ago with one of my group mates. We posited the idea of a wizard taking one of his area effect spells, let's say Darkness, and partially casting it so as to construct a lattice, over which the cleric could cast a healing spell to affect everyone in the area of effect.

I imagine something like this would have to be completely ad hoc though, and would be easier in a system like Mage or Dresden Files in which magic is constructed on the fly.
Team attacks? Sounds good to me. Though I'd prefer to see much more "phisical + magic" combos than anything else.

Physical + magic? yeah that would be cool but what your forgetting is the little spell...you know? gorenado! You know from the Epic spell wars of the Battle Wizards of Fyre Mountain!


Its an awesome game and Gorenado is like my favorite spells so a blood based caster or fighter or whatever could cast their spell with another wizards Tornado to make GORENADO!

It would be one kick arsed magic spell that could like...blow a guys head off or something!
ok joking aside. 

I think it could work if balanced and done correctly. I think they would work as Ability like feats that you and both players must take at certain levels.

So if both players have X feat than they can perform X move as a special attack option at the lower characters Initiative.  
I like this idea.  And then 5e haters could be like, "You're just playing Chrono Trigger on paper!"  and I would say, "AND IT IS GLORIOUS!"
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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I like this idea.  And then 5e haters could be like, "You're just playing Chrono Trigger on paper!"  and I would say, "AND IT IS GLORIOUS!"



No, it would be Magicka. Not Chrono Trigger

Magicka is completely awesome, btw. One of the best indy games ever.  
Oh, come now, I can't be the only person who heard "physical and magic teamwork abilities" and thought of this:

IMAGE(http://www.zeldainformer.com/images/articleimages/dualtechnique2.PNG) 
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Oh, come now, I can't be the only person who heard "physical and magic teamwork abilities" and thought of this:

 



Sorry, mind went straight to this.
Chrono trigger? I dont remember combo attacks but than again I never really played the game too heavily. I never even heard about it until it got released for the DS but I never knew what a RPG was until PS1 but I was still doing mario at that time in the 64. 

Wait.....OK! Nvm I DO  remember that!

Also yes...I Guess it kinda would be a lot  like that lolz, But I was not thinking of CT when thinking the idea.
Ah, Samrin, that trailer hard hardly any cool dual-casting in it.  Compare to this Chrono Trigger boss battle, where both the PCs and the NPCs use team techniques.

SPOILERS, though.  Be Warned. 
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
The reason why these abilities have never made it into the game so far is because it is difficult to have classes that use entirely different systems for using thier powers to expend both thier powers to create new effects. You would need an entirely new system for each type of combination.

New spell Gorenado

2 characters must expend a 3rd level arcane spell slot to achieve. Both characters must know the spell. And now mechanically there needs to be some reason why these characters would want to sack these spell slots for this new effect. meaning the new effect must be Better then the other option. Once you get this then everyone wants to dual cast. Meaning you have to make it difficult for characters to learn these moves.

This is kinda do-able but each dual casting spell must be written up and indivudually implemented
This reminds me a lot of a game I'm in.
1) Wizard casts storm pillar near enemy.
2) Defender readies an attack to trigger on said enemy's turn with a slide 6.
Granted, it's not like a wholly unique effect occurs above the sum of its parts, but it's pretty close.
 Lol. That was our party's go-to combo after we realized just how many push and slide attacks we had at our disposal. It was so effective, we stopped using after 2 sessions. Did I mention Storm Pillar was only used once per encounter?

so what about this one!

We have a alternate book like a spells compendium or spells compendium 2 comes out but its rather a Team Compendium.


Dual Spell caster spells - Both casters must know one spell from the spell list and have the spell prepared for the day. Than they must sacrifice a X level spell for whatever spell this combo spell is. Lets make Gorenado a 6th level spell. They must both sacrifice that one spell slot for the gorenado spell and have one part of the spell combo.

Than! Just like before. Wizard Mordo is in combat and is in front of initiative order than Sorcerer Mallus. He Prepares his Tornado spell of 5th level. Than on Mallus turn he charges and casts Blood Gush - A 3rd level spell that summons forth a powerful stream of acid like blood from his mouth. cuz well....he is a Neutral evil Blood mage and knows some blood magic spells and death a death spell and necromancy etc...

So they cast the spell together and has some effects of both spells + new power that no of the two spells could cast. They must ALSO be standing adjacent to each other as well in order to cast this spell!

Like

Gorenado - All enemies in a 3x6 cone spreading outward from the two casters takes 4D10 acid damage and 4D10 Wind or I guess in D&D it would be Frost damage for wind spells and would also take on a status effect as well. Like it would knock them back and give them X status effect.
a simple teamwork option might be using readied actions.

a fighter readying a attack to hit a enemy the split second after a spel hits that enemy might get advantage.

I've thought about this as well, and of course I would have referenced Chrono Trigger but it seems someone beat me to it.

Its a cute idea but I suspect its rather difficult to implement in practice for complexity reasons. Its very easy to flavor such actions though. 
www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/teamwork-feats

Not 100% awesome, but far more variety then what was attempted in 4e.

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I have to admit, the thread title threw me.  At first, I thought it was about two or more casters working together on a single spell (which I think would be an awesome element for ritual casting, and boosting the effectiveness of rituals).  However, as to the actual topic, I like it.

I think this idea falls into a few areas.

First, I think of two casters.  They each cast a different spell, but they mix the attributes of both.  Imagine casting a long-range spell, so that an ally's short-range spell gets your spell's longer range.

Second, I think of casters combining effects.  Imagine chain lightning with a sleep chaser.

Third, I think of individual casters turning their spells into buffs.  Imagine casting fireball into an ally's blade, so the weapon does fire damage instead of slashing, and then the fireball can be shot from the blade afterward.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

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I have to admit, the thread title threw me.  At first, I thought it was about two or more casters working together on a single spell (which I think would be an awesome element for ritual casting, and boosting the effectiveness of rituals).  However, as to the actual topic, I like it.

I think this idea falls into a few areas.

First, I think of two casters.  They each cast a different spell, but they mix the attributes of both.  Imagine casting a long-range spell, so that an ally's short-range spell gets your spell's longer range.

Second, I think of casters combining effects.  Imagine chain lightning with a sleep chaser.

Third, I think of individual casters turning their spells into buffs.  Imagine casting fireball into an ally's blade, so the weapon does fire damage instead of slashing, and then the fireball can be shot from the blade afterward.





umm..this IS about two casters creating one spell! Are you not reading the posts?
Two spells become one new spell! They mix and become something new and unique or a spell adds something cool and flashy to a melee fighters attack!

Or Four Wizards work together and each fires a different elemental magic magic a tsunami of elemental power!
Or Four Wizards work together and each fires a different elemental magic magic a tsunami of elemental power!



You know what time it's for???

I think this is a crucial part of TTRPG play; the main feature of tabletop roleplaying is that you have real, live players together in one place communicating with each other - using this feature to optimum effect seems like a very fine idea! Team tactics, discussions of plans and so on can be a major element of this; it is still one of the major features of our 4E game.

I don't think you need special, specific spells (gods forbid it should be limited to casters!), feats or whatever for it. You just need the abilities and powers of the characters in general to lean towards supporting team play. Pushes, pulls and slides are excellent for this. Granted, it can get out of hand if the design team isn't careful (as with Storm Pillar), but clumping enemies for the area effects, lining them up for the walls to divide and so on are all good meat and drink for teamwork. Flanking, conditions and Defender "stickiness" all feed in, too.

Now, if teamwork synergies could be extended to non-combat areas as well, we'd really be cooking on gas!
======= Balesir

I had this happen during my playtest. The rogue spots a kobold patrol coming down a corridor, yet the patrol does not spot the rogue. The cleric puts the rogue on his shield, then slides the shield down the hall with the rogue attacking the kobolds as he slid past them. This was spontaneous and both rolled a check of 19+ so I let the rogue get two attacks both with advantage since the cleric gave up his action for this, both checks were great, and this was a brilliant, unique, spontaenous idea.

I have always kept players the same levels even if some do not play, but have made sure that those not present don't get any treasure, magic items, etc. This works great and all, but I always felt like I should have something else to have a "pull". I started thinking about creating a system where teammates can do combo moves like the spells listed above, the rogue/cleric slide combo, maybe a burning hands hitting creatures and the fighters sword which makes it flame for one round, etc. I wanted to call them Opportunity Points just so the initials could be OP, although I may just get silly and call it Orchestration Paradigm.

The point of this system would be not just to encourage my players to come to the game, but want to come to more games with specific other players so that they can "work together" and get some team attacks down. I would keep this system somewhat infrequent as in they can only use it a small number of times a session, or small number of times per day. The system also makes some sense. If you fight alongside the same person a lot of times, you are going to get some team benefits with that particular person whether you plan on it or not. 

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Dual-casting sounds cool, so does the idea of other team attacks.  I'm thinking of stuff like Iron Man bouncing a repulsor ray off of Captain America's shield (so that it splits and hits two nearby enemies).  From the movie o' course ;).  There were 'fusion' attacks in the Ultimate Alliance 2 video game as well.

There are lots of opportunities for players to work together in a fight with 4e.  No actual team attacks though.  I'd love to see this idea expanded upon in DDN.  

Wish I had more of a knack for game design.  I have this vague idea for healing surges as a team resource.  Basically, a reason to explore the idea of teamwork abilities (which I have never done).  The idea's still there though ;).
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