Do we need Action Points?

There hasn't been much buzz about this on the forum, but there're no action points this time around.

It doesn't seem like people even realized action points were gone, to be honest.

What do you guys think? Do we need them?

I lean towards no. D&D went for decades before even introducing the idea. As for myself, we did have a couple of epic scenes in 4E thanks to action points, but I don't think we would go crazy if they were gone.

What do you think?
Simply put, I don't feel that players should need to use Action Points in order to get their "epic moments" in.

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D&D went for decades before even introducing the idea.



This should not be accepted, on its own, as a valid reason to include or not including something in the game.

I think Action Points can be useful to give players a measure of narrative control, but they are by no means the only way. It would be nice to have SOME mechanic at least similar to that, but it doesn't need to necessarily be the same.
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
Action Points were an excellent addition to the game, but one which is not essential for the core.

I look forward to them being added in a module. 
I didn't especially like Action points.  I mean, I wouldn't rage quit if I saw them, but there are three major problems that I have with them:

1) It is yet another daily resource to manage, and I hate managing resources, especially daily ones.

2) I want combat to be very fast.  Faster even, than you think when I say I want it to be very fast.  Taking a single action (during which you can move, too) is a very good place for combat to be, I think, speed wise.  Having action points available leaves you with yet another decision every turn (do I spend my action point--is it worth it yet?), which slows things down, and when it's spent, you, essentially, get another turn, which slows things down even more.

3) Action points create "novas."  I could create another entire list of reasons why I dislike "novas."

 There is a fourth, albeit far less important issue I have with them specifically in Next, but not 4e--they would steal a little bit of the Fighter's thunder, since they are currently the only class with a "take an extra action" ability so far.
I think they'd be great to have back. They were the best reason to avoid the 10 minute workday in 4e, at least for my group. It's also nice to get to have the option of rallying. Taking a few turns in a row where you miss, it can be good for player morale to immediately roll again and accomplish something (unless they miss again, but, y'know).
'That's just, like, your opinion, man.'
I think they'd be great to have back. They were the best reason to avoid the 10 minute workday in 4e, at least for my group.

Why did they help with that?  Why would you do a second encounter to get another action point when you could just retreat and rest and get another?  I mean, if you long rest after every encounter, you'd have an action point for every single encounter.*

*I wouldn't actually play that way--but it is encouraged by the system.

I think they'd be great to have back. They were the best reason to avoid the 10 minute workday in 4e, at least for my group.

Why did they help with that?  Why would you do a second encounter to get another action point when you could just retreat and rest and get another?  I mean, if you long rest after every encounter, you'd have an action point for every single encounter.*

*I wouldn't actually play that way--but it is encouraged by the system.




Could make it so you dont start the day with any, and get 1 every 2 encounters, then you have a resource you ONLY obtain by doing heroic deeds and not being a couch potatoe.


I'm more in favor of action points, but its not a deal breaker if they are out.   
I liked Action Points from d20 modern much better than the bland 4e ones.  I liked that you could do something to change your fate with them (turn success into failure) rather than just do more.  I would support that kind of action point.
D&D went for decades before even introducing the idea.

This should not be accepted, on its own, as a valid reason to include or not including something in the game.

True. It does demonstrate that an action point-less game is possible, fun, & can last a long time, though.

Interesting discussion, btw. Keep it coming.
I think they'd be great to have back. They were the best reason to avoid the 10 minute workday in 4e, at least for my group.

Why did they help with that?  Why would you do a second encounter to get another action point when you could just retreat and rest and get another?  I mean, if you long rest after every encounter, you'd have an action point for every single encounter.*

*I wouldn't actually play that way--but it is encouraged by the system.




It fostered a bit of a "just one more fight" mentality.  We could retreat, but we never wanted to go to bed with action points in the bank... but then we'd unlock more by the time all of us had used them, leading to a cycle of kicking ass and taking names.

And I realize this is a personal story more than empirical fact, but I just wanted to pitch in with our personal love of the AP and why it made it fun for us.
'That's just, like, your opinion, man.'
Do we "need" Action Points? Of course not.

Would they be a neat mechanic? Probably.

Will they be included in core? Probably not.

Will I mind if they are in core? Not at all.

Will I mind if they are not in core? Not at all. 
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Core, without any modules, is going to have a strong influence on a lot of people.  I hope they do not include Action Points in core, since their inclusion would significantly increase the chance that I might have to deal with them at some point.
The metagame is not the game.
Should they be a "Core" element? I'd like them to be one, at least as much as Fixed HP and Point Buy for Ability Scores should be "Core Options". If DDN is going to be modular, that aspects is going to have to be there right from the get go, not in some post supplement or DDI article. A set of options within the Core is preferrable to a super-basic, no options package with a "To Be Added" lable on the cover.
Genereally, i do not like them

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I love action points--I think the whole idea is really cool. I don't know that they're necessary for everyone, but it'd be nice to see them at least as an optional module people can add in if they're playing that kind of game.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
i love action points!!

but honestly, they are not required for the game, and they do extend encounters alot.

they are often more of a mechanical tool for strikers then anything.  
I don't feel the NEED to have action points.

We playtested this weekend and no one ask for action points. The game was fast-paced, so we didn't need to play twice in a round!

If Action Points are back in the game, I won't mind either.
I'm playing: Abin Gadon, Halfling Bard Winston "Slurphnose", Gnome Sorcerer Pasiphaé, Minotaur Shaman Eglerion, Elf Ellyrian Reaver (Ranger) DMing: Le Trésor du Fluide (Treasure from the Fluid) Un Royaume d'une Grande Valeur (A Kingdom of Great Value) La Légende de Persitaa (Persitaa's Legend) Une Série de Petites Quêtes... (A serie of short quests) Playtesting: Caves of Chaos We're building the greatest adventure ever known to DnD players! Also playing Legend of the Five Rings and Warhammer Fantasy. Sébastien, Beloeil, Qc. I am Neutral Good and 32 years old.
I preferred the Action Points as introduced in the Eberron setting in D&D 3.5. Instead of an extra Action, it gave you an (increasing) extra die to add to a d20 Roll. This helped characters either feel heroic (but pulling off otherwise unlikely difficulties) or helped you shore up what should have been a routine or important roll. They started at 1d6 but you would get multiples as you leveled and could take feats to increae the size of the die. You were limited to X / Level instead of per day, though some feats and other features gave you more.

I think those Action Points have a place in D&D next, but I would not bring back the 4e version.

I like the idea of some sort of resource that players could spend in a variety of ways--take an extra action, guarantee a hit, maximize damage, regain hit points, make a saving throw, et cetera. Perhaps they start each day with zero and gain one after each encounter--thus allowing them to take more heroic actions the longer they press on.