DnD Next (5E) World of Greyhawk

Not to be out done by the Forgotten Realms people. I feel there should be as much interest in Greyhawk and effort. We all know that 3.0 and 3.5 was Greyhawk. We know that 4th ed catered to Forgotten Realms. Its time for the cycle to roll back around to Greyhawk.
I love Greyhawk and would mind more support from WotC.  I'm with you!
If what they did to Forgotten Realms is an indication of what they might do to Greyhawk... I'd kind of rather they leave it on the shelf. BTW, there are a lot of materials for Greyhawk available on the web. Google is your friend.
If what they did to Forgotten Realms is an indication of what they might do to Greyhawk... I'd kind of rather they leave it on the shelf. BTW, there are a lot of materials for Greyhawk available on the web. Google is your friend.

Brand new stuff that is canon to an ongoing history kinda like what they did in 3.0 and 3.5 like say "Return to Temple of Elemental Evil". Now "Revenge of the Ginats" should hav been Greyhawk and 4E "Tomb of Horror" was bland. The took the fear factor out of it with too many saves for me.
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.
There are Greyhawk websites, fanzines... lots of stuff. 'Official canon', as far as I'm concerned, ended forever when Gygax stopped writing Greyhawk. Anything else is you pick what you want and run it like you stole it.
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.

Its called multitasking with different settings. You create a world with Race homeworlds and Keep Greyhawk as is.  When they come up with these ideas they lock them selves into idea that seems iron-clad the they way your talking. They can have more than one idea it would seem. There doesn't need to be this premise that we are only going to focus on one idea and one idea only. They could have Realms, Greyhawk,etc and still be successful and productive and make a profit. Isn't that what its really about. Ideas that will make WOTC money. Trust me if they bring back Greyhawk, they will not have a problem making money or selling the product unless they botch it all together. 8)
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.



I want support.  Racial composition should have limited impact on that.  However, I'll point out that kobolds and centaurs were allowed (with special access; I'll admit) into the WotC sanctioned Living Greyhawk campaign. 

However, WotC treatment of FR and LFR does make me leary; however, a simple campaign book like the Greyhawk Gazetteer (3rd edition) is better than being completely ignored by WotC. 
  
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.



I want support.  Racial composition should have limited impact on that.  However, I'll point out that kobolds and centaurs were allowed (with special access; I'll admit) into the WotC sanctioned Living Greyhawk campaign. 

However, WotC treatment of FR and LFR does make me leary; however, a simple campaign book like the Greyhawk Gazetteer (3rd edition) is better than being completely ignored by WotC. 
  

Great World with memorable adventures that people talk about still today.
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.



I want support.  Racial composition should have limited impact on that.  However, I'll point out that kobolds and centaurs were allowed (with special access; I'll admit) into the WotC sanctioned Living Greyhawk campaign. 

However, WotC treatment of FR and LFR does make me leary; however, a simple campaign book like the Greyhawk Gazetteer (3rd edition) is better than being completely ignored by WotC. 
  

Great World with memorable adventures that people talk about still today.



Greyhawk represents the setting of my first "successful" campaign.  It has a special place in heart...
In the video from one of the other threads, they said that Greyhawk will have it's own special "fear mechanics" as an example of a module, so keep your eyes open.
Did you mean Ravenloft?
Fantasy worlds do change, far more than the regular world does. Between magic and monsters there is constantly more opportunity to change.

Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk both have strengths and weaknesses.

Both are filled with majority Human run lands, with pockets of humanoids and demi humans. So if they were to support both they would need stronger differences such as -

- link one world on a larger/more frequent way to spelljammer or ravenloft or planescape (planescape would fit into greyhawk going by Gary Gygax's original greyhawk novels, heaps of planar teams/creatures/events in them).

- advance the technology of one world

- bring back The Bloodwar and have more Aasimaar, Tieflings etc over the last 10 years thanks to large invasions. On Greyhawk this could easily be linked into From The Ashes with the Rise of Iuz, or on Forgotten Realms with the Spellplague.

- Leave Forgotten Realms as it is in 4th edition, since there were major land and racial changes, it is the most different from Greyhawk compared to 1st-3rd edition Realms.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

Great Setting with cool characters or personalities. I hate the way it got killed off in the 90s. The brought it back in 3.0 only to neglect Forgotten Realmss. Then in 4E they showed Realms the The Luv and neglected Greyhawk.
Did you mean Ravenloft?

Yes.. I'm tired. Tooi many settings with names of birds in them...
Worlds should be single large independent books.   I think Greyhawk is awesome and deserves a book.  So does Mystara if you ask me.   I always homebrew my worlds but I also tend to buy a lot of books just to read and take ideas from.

When you make modules, you should make it so they can fit in the various worlds.  I liked in the old days where the intro explained the module and suggested sites in the world for it.   And that was in the days when only Greyhawk existed.  They assumed DMs would put it whereever and suggested multiple places.   That is a mentality that I miss.

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Greyhawk ? Bring it on !




By the Gods, I want SpellJammer back and refined for 5ed.  

As much as I love FR and Greyhawk, I started playing AD&D with Spelljammer and Dragonlance (mixed, mind you LOL).  Eberon's mythology already sets up some basic groundwork, so maybe we could see a comeback of the Realm Spheres.

Err, which is entirely offtopic.  As far as Greyhawk goes, I'd like to see some dramatic events take place, but nothing that warps the entire perception of the Realm like was done to FR.  The changes made to FR in 4ed were something I never really came to terms with.  3.x FR and 4ed FR are not, in my perception, the same setting.  Which might be obvious, you say, but FR was still FR after the 'Time of Troubles' happened.  It doesn't feel that way to me with the later changes.
I would pick up a full color hardcover Greyhawk book, regardless of system.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
I actually hope that 5e brings back the 2nd Edition mentality of putting out lots of varied campaign settings, but with more sophistication and care than some of what TSR did.

I'd love to see Greyhawk return, as long as they don't try to change it too much. Just bring it into the new system, maybe advance the timeline a few years, but don't try to 'rock the world' with dramatic changes.

I'd love to see Mystara revamped with a more grown-up tone than what TSR did when they updated it to 2nd Edition AD&D. And Mystara needs a lot more in the way of revamp - it needs better maps, a more coherent and unified history, etc. Basically it needs to feel more like a fully realized campaign world and not a mishmash of campaign settings. But I digress.

Of course there will be Realms. I admit I haven't read a single sentence of 4th edition realms material, but I'm not encouraged by what I've heard. I wasn't really happy with some of the things they did in 3rd edition either. I'll wait to see what 5th brings, but my hope is that they will provide some ideas/guidelines for running Realms at various periods in its history - from Ancient Netheril, to Myth Drannor at it's height, to the Time of Troubles, to whatever.

Dark Sun - Again I hear there is some 4th edition Dark Sun stuff out there but I am not familiar with it. I know I absolutely loved 2nd edition Dark Sun and I want to see it done up for 5th edition with that same flavor.

Ravenloft and Planescape - Yes please. Same thoughts as for Dark Sun.

Eberron - I never played Eberron but I've read some of the material and I think it's a really cool world. Hope to see 5th edition Eberron material out there.

And I wouldn't mind seeing new worlds be created. They don't have to be big, sprawling worlds where everything is possible like Realms. Just maybe a single hardcover DM's campaign guide, a player's intro booklet, and a couple of published adventures. I want to see a wide variety of campaign worlds for DM's to choose from.
 
Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and Nentir Vale all have more in common than they do in difference.

Lots of human controlled lands with pockets of demi humans and humanoid areas. Large pantheon of gods, a few large cities but mostly towns everywhere.

If they were to supply adventures they could simply have 'insert this adventure into any area with a town near a woods with a lake' instead of specifying specific areas in each game world.

Ravenloft, Ebberon, Darksun and Planescape are far more unique and would require a book each of their own.

So I guess i'm saying it would be great to have corebook for each world, but it's more realistic to have one generic style world and then books for the more unique ones.

Thinking outside of the box, fantasy worlds do change, so there is nothing stopping them from linking ravenloft to greyhawk, or mystara with forgotten realms (on the other side of the planet, yes this would mean hollow world inside Toril).

It's a fantasy game, don't think of what was, think of what could be.

Key things for D&D - Where is the character from and why do they do what they do? / Recurring NPCs - allies and enemies / Plot, World and Personal Events.

Greyhawk is awesome!  But, take heed.  It's hard to trust Wizards with keeping settings fresh and interesting... as their definition has been World Shattering Event after World Shattering Event.  They seemed to love to do it to the Realms.  Greyhawk shouldn't suffer this.  Plus, they'd hastily shove races that wouldn't fit the flavour.  But, as long as you have Greyhawk fluff available, there's always fandom based support, right?  In fact, that's probably better than official!  We just need enough dedicated fans willing enough to convert content.  

Also, leave the game at the basics, don't shove metaplot or what have you... let the players do that!  I don't want Wizards to do the game for me and destroy locations in a setting for me (A la time jump/spellplague) again.  This is a reason why I'd rather Greyhawk be left to fans, much like Dragonlance (and the conversion material I've seen for Dragonlance in the current edition has been great)

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Greyhawk is awesome!  But, take heed.  It's hard to trust Wizards with keeping settings fresh and interesting... as their definition has been World Shattering Event after World Shattering Event.  They seemed to love to do it to the Realms.  Greyhawk shouldn't suffer this.  Plus, they'd hastily shove races that wouldn't work too well.  But, as long as you have Greyhawk fluff available, there's always fandom based support, right?  In fact, that's probably better than official!  We just need enough dedicated fans willing enough to convert content.  

Also, leave the game at the basics, don't shove metaplot or what have you... let the players do that!  The Spellplague told me that Wizards wants to do the game for me and destroy locations in a setting for me.  This is a reason why I'd rather Greyhawk be left to fans, much like Dragonlance (and the conversion material I've seen for Dragonlance in the current edition has been great!)



I'd help with the conversion when DDN comes out.  However, I woud still appreciate a token gesture from WotC in a simple book to help with conversions.  But, you're right; I would absolutely hate them if they destroyed Greyhawk the same way they destroyed the Forgotten Realms (which ironcially, I think should be forgetten since it's not Greyhawk.  Smile). 


Oh that was a joke just in case someone decides to misunderstand it...Smile  


I'd help with the conversion when DDN comes out.  However, I woud still appreciate a token gesture from WotC in a simple book to help with conversions.  But, you're right; I would absolutely hate them if they destroyed Greyhawk the same way they destroyed the Forgotten Realms (which ironcially, I think should be forgetten since it's not Greyhawk.  Smile). 


Oh that was a joke just in case someone decides to misunderstand it...Smile  



I'd be happy to join in conversions.  Canon means nothing me anymore, since I fear Wizards is diving themselves deeper into a hole full of "derp" when it comes to canon.  Their only choice after a certain point is "New 52" and we see how well that worked for DC (Though, some series turned out well!  I love All-Star Western and Animal Man!)  

No matter, I understand the jabs at the Realms.  The Realms did replace Greyhawk in an attempt to spite the setting's creator.  If they do bring back Greyhawk, they should restore it to Gary's visions up until they booted him from being the guy in charge of it ('86?).  It'd be a treat for old fans and a great way to welcome in new fans.  Easy, vanilla fantasy with tons of space to be explored!  It was "Points of Light" before it was mainstream!  I guess the joke would be on the Realms in that case.

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!


I'd help with the conversion when DDN comes out.  However, I woud still appreciate a token gesture from WotC in a simple book to help with conversions.  But, you're right; I would absolutely hate them if they destroyed Greyhawk the same way they destroyed the Forgotten Realms (which ironcially, I think should be forgetten since it's not Greyhawk.  Smile). 


Oh that was a joke just in case someone decides to misunderstand it...Smile  



I'd be happy to join in conversions.  Canon means nothing me anymore, since I fear Wizards is diving themselves deeper into a hole full of "derp" when it comes to canon.  Their only choice after a certain point is "New 52" and we see how well that worked for DC (Though, some series turned out well!  I love All-Star Western and Animal Man!)  

No matter, I understand the jabs at the Realms.  The Realms did replace Greyhawk in an attempt to spite the setting's creator.  If they do bring back Greyhawk, they should restore it to Gary's visions up until they booted him from being the guy in charge of it ('86?).  It'd be a treat for old fans and a great way to welcome in new fans.  Easy, vanilla fantasy with tons of space to be explored!  It was "Points of Light" before it was mainstream!  I guess the joke would be on the Realms in that case.




Out of curiosity, what year (in Greyhawk times) is the best year to try to fit into DDN?  While I was not a huge fan of the post Gygax handling of Greyhawk handling, I actually liked the 3e version of Greyhawk through the Living Greyhawk campaign... 

I would be torn on what to include and where to start.  Maybe starting from the beginning and adding things in chronological order?  I don't know...  
I really liked Greyhawk. However, I do not want to see the it 'supported' like all of the 4e campaign settings. I want Greyhawk to mean something (several, well written booKs) and not confined into just 1 mediocre book.
    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.



Concerning parties of all non-humans....  Well, there's no reason to think it'd work any worse than it ever did in 1e, 2e, or 3x.
Completely non-human parties are nothing new.

And the GH setting already has areas with high populations of elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc.

Additionally there's plenty of space on the map that's never been officially detailed very much.
Including the Underdark (despite being the setting for the classic Drow based modules).
So there should be plenty of space to reveal concentrations of previously "unknown" races. 


    Now a question here is how much they would need to change it.  There is a strong urge to give each race a homeland, which means if they add in new races, they fiddle with the setting too.  Greyhawk is also a heavily human world, which doesn't work as well when we have parties that may be entirely non-human.



Concerning parties of all non-humans....  Well, there's no reason to think it'd work any worse than it ever did in 1e, 2e, or 3x.
Completely non-human parties are nothing new.

And the GH setting already has areas with high populations of elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc.

Additionally there's plenty of space on the map that's never been officially detailed very much.
Including the Underdark (despite being the setting for the classic Drow based modules).
So there should be plenty of space to reveal concentrations of previously "unknown" races. 






Plenty of space?  Hell, the mapped section looks like a tenth of of the actual land mass.  Plenty?  More than plenty in my opinion.  Smile  

Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and Nentir Vale all have more in common than they do in difference.

Lots of human controlled lands with pockets of demi humans and humanoid areas. Large pantheon of gods, a few large cities but mostly towns everywhere.

If they were to supply adventures they could simply have 'insert this adventure into any area with a town near a woods with a lake' instead of specifying specific areas in each game world.

Ravenloft, Ebberon, Darksun and Planescape are far more unique and would require a book each of their own.

So I guess i'm saying it would be great to have corebook for each world, but it's more realistic to have one generic style world and then books for the more unique ones.

Thinking outside of the box, fantasy worlds do change, so there is nothing stopping them from linking ravenloft to greyhawk, or mystara with forgotten realms (on the other side of the planet, yes this would mean hollow world inside Toril).

It's a fantasy game, don't think of what was, think of what could be.



I can't stress enough how much I disagree with this. All those worlds have many things that set them apart from one another (which I won't go into detail on, because that could be a whole book by itself). And I wouldn't want to see any of them ruined by trying to cram them together.

more importantly, one of my biggest problems with the WotC takeover of the brand was the way they shifted the balance of product too far into rules and supplements and away from source material and content. I want to see that balance restored. More campaign settings and adventures, fewer rulebooks.

Is that going to happen? Well.. probably not as much as I'd like. Because it's obvious that more rulebooks sell better than more content, if for no other reason that the simple fact that only the DM needs to buy the content, while players and DM's alike will buy the rulebooks. 

But then, this thread isn't about what we expect to happen, it's about what we want to see. So there you go.
Perhaps that space should be left blank, with notes on how the weird new races can be worked into your campaign as an option only.

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
We've been playing the same Greyhawk campaign for 22 years.  All they need to do is produce a series of DDI articles with backgrounds and themes based around the various nations, institutions, and religions in Greyhawk, including some that came about from LG.  It doesn't have to be anything fancy.

Statting out suggested builds for some of the famous npcs is always fun too.
Greyhawk rules as the generic world for D&D. It's just a great place to have adventures. We are tackling the Greyhawk ruins right now...we'll see what happens.
"If it's not a conjuration, how did the wizard con·jure/ˈkänjər/Verb 1. Make (something) appear unexpectedly or seemingly from nowhere as if by magic. it?" -anon "Why don't you read fire·ball / fī(-ə)r-ˌbȯl/ and see if you can find the key word con.jure /'kən-ˈju̇r/ anywhere in it." -Maxperson
Greyhawk rules as the generic world for D&D. It's just a great place to have adventures. We are tackling the Greyhawk ruins right now...we'll see what happens.

You'll have to tell me about it
8)
By the way, does anybody familiar with Greyhawk lore know of any good plot threads they could pull to introduce the newer 4e races without a radical Spellplague-style overhaul? Surely there must be some powerful NPC who would have the motive to make a servitor race of dragon men or some place where the Living Gate could be justified to have existed.
By the way, does anybody familiar with Greyhawk lore know of any good plot threads they could pull to introduce the newer 4e races without a radical Spellplague-style overhaul? Surely there must be some powerful NPC who would have the motive to make a servitor race of dragon men or some place where the Living Gate could be justified to have existed.



If Greyhawk is connected to any multiverse setting (Spelljammer, perhaps?), maybe they can arrive as very rare migrated races from other realms.  A bit cheap, but I don't want to warp the fluff to have these guys jump into the plot...  As it is, I wasn't too happy about them hopping into The Realms, Dark Sun, and Eberron as part of the story (I.E. canon)

An undead spectre occasionally returning to remind the fandom of its grim existence.

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I've never been a hugely deeply invested fan of any particular setting, but the impression that I get is that they'd almost be better off just kind of with an "these were always here, they've just never come up before" retcon-style weaving of any new game elements they want to introduce into the setting rather than trying to explain the sudden emergence of the new element. If snailfolk are something that's core and so now the setting is going to have them, just pick a place that makes sense for the snailfolk homeland to be, say that many snailfolk are largely assimilated into the larger culture in cosmopolitan areas and be done with it, rather than making up some kind of catastrophic event to explain it. You could also just leave snailfolk out, but in general, I think that settings are in general much better defined by "here's what game element X looks like in OUR world" than "our world doesn't have game element X".
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer. Swanmay Syndrome: Despite the percentages given in the Monster Manual, in reality 100% of groups of swans contain a Swanmay, because otherwise the DM would not have put any swans in the game.
By the way, does anybody familiar with Greyhawk lore know of any good plot threads they could pull to introduce the newer 4e races without a radical Spellplague-style overhaul? Surely there must be some powerful NPC who would have the motive to make a servitor race of dragon men or some place where the Living Gate could be justified to have existed.


I suppose one could create a plot where the Valley Elves are actually dragonborn or goliaths (or some other race you want to bring in) that have been glamered to look like elves by the guy who found and dominated them, Jaran himself. Perhaps the illusion only works when within the Vale? The humans who live there wouldn't know any better, and the gnomes...well, they think the illusion is incredibly interesting and are taking a 'wait and see' sort of attitude towards this race.
4e D&D is not a "Tabletop MMO." It is not Massively Multiplayer, and is usually not played Online. Come up with better descriptions of your complaints, cuz this one means jack ****.
By the way, does anybody familiar with Greyhawk lore know of any good plot threads they could pull to introduce the newer 4e races without a radical Spellplague-style overhaul? Surely there must be some powerful NPC who would have the motive to make a servitor race of dragon men or some place where the Living Gate could be justified to have existed.



Honestly, there are a couple of ways of making this happen without another cataclysm (which Greyhawk had a few early in its history).  

Tieflings can always be considered as part of the lore.  The fact that they are part of existing cultures just means they have existed but just weren't playable before.  There's no real need for a mass migration effect; however, the DM can rule that they are more common the old Great Kingdom, Shield Lands and north of Furyondy.  All of these areas have seen some significant demonic (or devilish) incursions of one type or another.  Tieflings could be a result of these interactions (not necessarily limited to offspring interaction either).

Dragonborn could originate from the east or west.  To east, there are rumored to be exotic races across the great sea.  While most campaigns that I've played in tend to believe in the existence of Kara-Tur like lands across the ocean, I'm not aware of much official canon that limits it that belief.  Dragonborn could easily by a race from the across the sea that make landfall on the explored parts of Oerth.  In addition, there is a great desert to the west.  Dragonborn could be a new race trekking across the desert making contact with the western nations. 

Other methods can see them coming down from the Land of Black Ice or coming up from the jungles to south.  These are alittle bit more problematic in my opinion and might infringe on some pre-established facts.  However, they can be worked around.  Dragonborn could be another faction fighting against the Scarlet Brotherhood and migrated north to find allies that have resisted the Brotherhood (which could be a interesting premise for a campaign).  The south and north are largely unexplored despite being used in "canon" and can still be used in this regard too. 

There are other ways of incorporating the 4e races; these are just some of the ones that I felt could fit in one post.  Smile        
By the way, does anybody familiar with Greyhawk lore know of any good plot threads they could pull to introduce the newer 4e races without a radical Spellplague-style overhaul? Surely there must be some powerful NPC who would have the motive to make a servitor race of dragon men or some place where the Living Gate could be justified to have existed.



Goliaths live in the Griff Mountains (but adding some to Esmerin in the Lortmils is not a stretch), I wrote dragonborn in as being from the Celestial Empire and Zahindia in the Far West (a retinue of which accompanied Resbin Dren Emondav of Sterich), tieflings have been around since 2e, thri-kreen can feature in any of the deserts in small numbers (but I'm fairly sure there are some in larger numbers in the Sea of Dust), any of the fey races can pop up in Celene, faerie forests, or celtic nations like Geoff, shadar-kai can just be shadow-touched humans but the fey versions are known to are known to dwell in the Dim Forest as part of the hordes of Hasforenses, shifters can exist among the wolf and tiger nomads, and deva are so wierd that they an fit anywhere with sufficient back story.
I dig Greyhawk, I dig all the D&D settings, that's why I've gone back to the original, no Time of Troubles, no Age of Mortals, no Prism Pentad, no Grand Conjunction, no Faction War, I don't like when settings become too polluted and authors mess with them.
In Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, they hint that Iuz is planning another war.  Let's keep the war in the background but use it as an excuse to bring in a few more races.

- Tieflings - Iuz summoned an army of devils/demons.  When he suffered several reverses, the demons just lost interest in his orders and started doing their own thing.  The areas where those demon armies happened to be became tiefling homelands.

- Devas - Looking for powerful allies, Furyondy decided to summon some up, too.  The Devas took Iuz in flank and conquered some territory.  When the war was over, they still held it.  And to this day, they still do.

- Dragonborn - A Christopher Columbus like event happened along the eastern shorelands, not properly noticed because of the distractions caused by Iuz.  Today there are several islands colonized by dragonborn from an unknown land overseas.  Other islands are under their governance without need of conquest.  Merchant colonies of dragonborn cautiously explore the lands, seeking future opportunity.  As suggested above, maybe the Great Empire would be a good place for them to start looking around.

Per the module, Iuz attacked when he was not really ready.  His carefully-laid plans were cast aside in a fit of pride and rash anger.  Some of his attacks went well, some did not.  His enemies had successes of their own, as well.  While the war should not be detailed in full, the broad themes can be brushstroked in, and this war used as the catalyst to move Greyhawk into a new day.  I'm thinking like how the Second World War changed so much, even in areas that never saw a soldier or felt an explosion.  Greyhawk 5.0 should still be visibly Gary's creation, but things invented in the meanwhile can be added into the tapestry without having to rip all the threads apart to do it.

Best complements I have yet received

Making it up as I go along:

{BRJN} If I was writing the Tome of Lore, I would let Auppenser sleep. But I also would have him dream. In his dreaming he re-activates the innate powers of (some) mortal minds. Or his dreaming changes the nature of reality - currently very malleable thanks to Spellplague &c. Or whatever really cool flavor text and pseudo-science explanation people react positively to.

{Lord_Karsus} You know, I like that better than the explanations for the Spellplague.

 

{BRJN} If Bhaal approves of The Joker, does he approve of Jack Nicholson's portrayal or Heath Ledger's protrayal more?

{Stigger} That question is utterly classic, and completely on target.

 

Prepped ahead of time:

I started the 4e thread "1001 Failed Interrogation Results" (now lost in that great electronic goodnight, alas)

{ADHadh} These are all good and make sense! I just can't come up with something that's not covered here and is not completely ridiculous.

 

(News bulletin: Updated thread to be posted after I review the 5e DMG)

 

My 5e characters

Active:

none yet - gotta find a group !

Character Ready-to-go:

Erevyn Meliamne, Wood elf Monk1, inspired by "Radar O'Reilley" from M*A*S*H

Concepts I'm kicking around:

Barbarian w/Tough feat, to be nearly indestructible

"Truenamer" cleric - all spells are Verbal

"Buggy" Wizard - insect flavor on everything.  His DMPC / BBEG version is going to become a beetle version of a Worm That Walks.  (See the 4e Lamia.)  Because lichdom is so cliche.

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