Garrote Chucker

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Ok i was goofing around with the character builder and made this, just think its funny.



====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1 Human, Fighter (Weaponmaster)
Fighter Option: Combat Agility
Fighter Talents Option: Arena Training
Arena Training Option: Arena Training (Fullblade) Arena Training Option: Arena Training (Triple-headed flail)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort  

FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 19, CON 13, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8  
STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 17, CON 13, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8    

AC: 16 Fort: 17 Ref: 13 Will: 11 HP: 28 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 7  

TRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +6, Athletics +8, Endurance +5, Heal +5, Intimidate +4  

UNTRAINED SKILLS Arcana +0, Bluff –1, Diplomacy –1, Dungeoneering +0, History +0, Insight +0, Nature +0, Perception +0, Religion +0, Stealth +1, Streetwise –1, Thievery +1  

POWERS Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack: Combat Agility
Fighter Attack 1: Weapon Master's Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Sure Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Serpent's Coil
Fighter Attack 1: Comeback Strike  

FEATS Level 1: Improvised Missile
Level 1: Berserker's Fury  

ITEMS Fullblade x1 Triple-headed flail Garrote Hide Armor x1

====== End ======


Now for the goofy.   Arena fighter makes all weapons that you are not proficient in improvised weapons that do d8 for a one handed or d10 for a 2 handed, and you get a +2 prof bonus with these improvised weapons.  MCing barbarian gives access to the improvised missle feat which turns all improvised melee weapons into heavy thrown improvised weapons with a +2 bonus to hit and damage.


So seeing that this guy is not proficient with garrotes he now throws them 5/10 range at +8 att and d10+6 damage


so this guy is not necessarily optimized, but imagine some guy killing people by throwing piano wire at them.

so this guy is not necessarily optimized, but imagine some guy killing people by throwing piano wire at them.



His name is Walter.  And he is the Angel of Death (retired).
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here

so this guy is not necessarily optimized, but imagine some guy killing people by throwing piano wire at them.



His name is Walter.  And he is the Angel of Death (retired).



Damn that sounds so familiar... What show was that from?
Unortunately, his non-magical piano wire will never return to him, and will never be useful to hit with past level 6, since it will never get an enhancement bonus.  Fun though.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Unortunately, his non-magical piano wire will never return to him, and will never be useful to hit with past level 6, since it will never get an enhancement bonus.  Fun though.



Actually, there are enchantments that can be applied to Garrotes. Any Enchantment that can be put on 'Any Melee' can be put on a Garrote. Hell, you can get a Vanguard Garrote.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_det...

Walter Donlez (Aka the "Angel of Death") is from Hellsing.

If there was any way to get a semi-optimal version of him to tool around with I would play the hell out of it. 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
Unortunately, his non-magical piano wire will never return to him, and will never be useful to hit with past level 6, since it will never get an enhancement bonus.  Fun though.



Actually, there are enchantments that can be applied to Garrotes. Any Enchantment that can be put on 'Any Melee' can be put on a Garrote. Hell, you can get a Vanguard Garrote.


However, it would still be an improvised weapon, so the magical properties would not apply.

Whether or not it can be enchanted is not the issue - using it as an improvised weapon renders the enchantment moot - the enhancement bonuses apply no more than if you were throwing a cloak or suit of armour.  Plus, there's no enchantmennt that can give it a Thrown property, which would be required for it to return.
Harrying your Prey, the Easy Way: A Hunter's Handbook - the first of what will hopefully be many CharOp efforts on my part. The Blinker - teleport everywhere. An Eladrin Knight/Eldritch Knight. CB != rules source.
Unortunately, his non-magical piano wire will never return to him


Fortunately, piano-wire isn't that expensive Wink

@thespaceinvader: Ah. I was not aware of the Improvised Weapon thing. I wasn't contesting the no return thing, though.
Why not throw cats?

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I think part of the reason he went with the Garrote is because it's a Two-handed weapon. There aren't too many cats you can wield two-handed, and those that can be tend to be not friendly.
Why not throw...dwarves;)

Dwarves wield magic weapons that do good damage, throwing them let you hit with the dwarf itself for damage, then the dwarf would get to attack on its turn as well.

So, could a pixie riding a halfling riding a human be thrown by a bugbear (would a human count as an oversized weapon?) who then throws the dwarf who then throws the pixie? Would this cause an internal system exception failure and crash the campaign?
I like this. I had an arena fighter that was sick of teleporters messing with him, so he wielded a Dimensional Anchor two-handed. It was a 6-foot tall granite monolith. It didn't matter if he hit them or not, unlike feyslaughter gauntlets, and if he did hit it hurt like hell.

Would you be able to use a ki focus with the garrote? It still wouldn't come back, but then you'd get an enhancement bonus.
Why not throw...dwarves;)



Because "nobody tosses a dwarf!"

Back to Basics - A Guide to Basic Attacks You might be playing DnD wrong if... "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
so asking now for a ruleing since it does say 
Arena Training
You treat all weapons with which you are not proficient as improvised weapons.
    You gain a +2 proficiency bonus to attack rolls with improvised weapons. Your attacks with one-handed improvised weapons deal 1d8 damage, and your attacks with two-handed improvised weapons deal 1d10 damage.
    While you are not wearing heavy armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
    You select two weapons as your arena weapons. If you are not already proficient with these weapons, you gain proficiency with them. In addition, any of your feats that grant feat bonuses to attack rolls or damage rolls with one of your arena weapons apply to your other arena weapon as well.

And the garrote says

This strangling tool is a length of wire or knotted rope with handles at either end. The only attacks that you can make with a garrote are ones that require or allow its use. Also, if you are holding a garrote in both hands, you can use the grab action even without a hand free. If the grab hits, the target takes 1[W] damage from the garrote.

Would i be able to use this with a basic attack? 

Also since its an improvised weapon and i gain proficiency with improvised weapons the enhancement would work if it had one no? 
Yes, because you are not using it as a garrote when attacking with it as an improvised weapon.
Can i get an offical ruleing on this please so i can tell my friend some offical ruled on it and says its ok or not?
Yes, because you are not using it as a garrote when attacking with it as an improvised weapon.

Treating a weapon as a improvised weapon does not take away any of the rules associated with the weapon though, so even if he is not proficient with a garrote and is using it as a improvised weapon, he still can only use it in certain attacks and conditions as per the garrote text
No. When using an improvised weapon, whatever the actual thing is, does not have any bearing. It is why you usually lose all proficiency bonuses and damage die with one. The garrote used as an improvised weapon is not as garrote, its a wade of twine and wood. None of its regular features can be used, only those for an improvised weapon (ie, any weapon properties, keywords like offhand, small, flail, whatever).
Also, you won't be doing massive damage.  Improvised ranged weapons have their own section in the RC.  If you are throwing an improvised weapon, it's an improvised ranged weapon, I believe.

An improvised ranged weapon is range 5/10, 1d4 damage.
Solved the problem today by just calling Wizards, according to Steve in customer service. The garrote is a specialized weapon which can only be used during certain uses and powers, and therefore even if used in a improvised manner you still could not throw it through the use of all the powers and feats and such.


Though he did want me to point out that if the GM allows it, then the Gm allows it and Wizards back up the GM's call.
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?
Yeah, I'm Steve, sorry, we have this thing at work where any time someone asks us something absurd that could simply be looked up in the rules, we lie through our teeth. I just wanted to come here and appologise since I'm off the clock now.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
I'm actually really pumped for Steve, since he has a job despite not knowing what he's talking about!
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said
Also, you won't be doing massive damage.  Improvised ranged weapons have their own section in the RC.  If you are throwing an improvised weapon, it's an improvised ranged weapon, I believe.

An improvised ranged weapon is range 5/10, 1d4 damage.



Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said



Steve is from an outsourced company, and so is terribly unreliable.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said



Steve is from an outsourced company, and so is terribly unreliable.

And you know this how? And if WoTC put this "outsourceed" third party in charge of making rules decision, then they are speaking on behalf of WoTC
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said



Steve is from an outsourced company, and so is terribly unreliable.

And you know this how? And if WoTC put this "outsourceed" third party in charge of making rules decision, then they are speaking on behalf of WoTC



Its common knowledge, and common knowledge that CustServ is so often wrong that they simply arent to be trusted. Countless people have asked them the same question and theyve answered multiple different ways
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said



Steve is from an outsourced company, and so is terribly unreliable.

And you know this how? And if WoTC put this "outsourceed" third party in charge of making rules decision, then they are speaking on behalf of WoTC



Its common knowledge, and common knowledge that CustServ is so often wrong that they simply arent to be trusted. Countless people have asked them the same question and theyve answered multiple different ways

So what makes it different when the customer service wrotes a post on here then?
Because Steve knows what he is talking about?

Well when you call up the people to get a rules check from their own game, I would consider it just as good as someone from there posting on the board?

Like he said if ya wanna thow rope around and have it do as much as a sword and thats what your GM allows then so be it

I am just telling you what the person on the other end of the phone said



Steve is from an outsourced company, and so is terribly unreliable.

And you know this how? And if WoTC put this "outsourceed" third party in charge of making rules decision, then they are speaking on behalf of WoTC



Its common knowledge, and common knowledge that CustServ is so often wrong that they simply arent to be trusted. Countless people have asked them the same question and theyve answered multiple different ways

And to say something is common knowledge is just an assertion, with no evidence backing that. I mean you have proof then I would use that instead of just saying it's common knowledge

I don't need to prove anything to you, and I don't like your tone. Customer Service is wrong, and every other regular on this board can back me up.
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
Also, you won't be doing massive damage.  Improvised ranged weapons have their own section in the RC.  If you are throwing an improvised weapon, it's an improvised ranged weapon, I believe.

An improvised ranged weapon is range 5/10, 1d4 damage.



I don't need to prove anything to you, and I don't like your tone. Customer Service is wrong, and every other regular on this board can back me up.

Your right, you don't need to prove me right or wrong, but your words are just opinions and assertions unless you can back it up by fact. Your the one tossing around common sense and common sense that. You have given no parameters in which something is considered "fact" since apparently employees or people who have been given the authority to speak on their behalf has answered don't count.

So you can continue not having to prove anything to me I don't care, I made the call I got the answer I needed, you can do whatever you want but I at least did something to try to get an official answer to this question, instead of just giving my opinions and assertions

Fun fact, you can't prove that CustServ is right except with circular logic. We have already shown, and explained why they are wrong, the only possible way that CustServ would be right is ... if they had some higher authority that made them "always right". Such authority doesn't exist, WotC has never said CustServ answers represented official adjudication.

If you search around, particularly in our Q&A thread or the Q&A Forum, you can find answers from Cust Serv that directly go against things which are explicitly stated in the rules, including:
- Charging requires a Move and a Standard action
- The Unconscious (Save Ends) condition is ended by damage
- Mark punishments on multi-attack powers
- How Polearm Gamble works
- Sneak Attack maximizing on a Crit

I could go on, but why bother. CustServ are as likely to be right about obscure rule situations as a Kindergarden teacher is about obscure math questions. Yes, they're paid to be the ones to answer, that doesn't give them any additional knowledge of how to read rules, because there is no requirement (or even preference) for english or law degrees when hiring them. They are less qualified to answer your questions than my father, a medical interpreter for congress, and he has never played the game.

There was a reasonable argument about CustServ's 'authority' here. The short of it is, that yes, they are professional question answerers by definition, however they have no peer review process and no access to the most up to date rules (Rules Compendium is not provided to them, only Insider access to the Online Compendium); Simply put, we do.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection.
Also, you won't be doing massive damage.  Improvised ranged weapons have their own section in the RC.  If you are throwing an improvised weapon, it's an improvised ranged weapon, I believe.

An improvised ranged weapon is range 5/10, 1d4 damage.






Arena Training

You treat all weapons with which you are not proficient as improvised weapons.
    You gain a +2 proficiency bonus to attack rolls with improvised weapons. Your attacks with one-handed improvised weapons deal 1d8 damage, and your attacks with two-handed improvised weapons deal 1d10 damage.
    While you are not wearing heavy armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.
    You select two weapons as your arena weapons. If you are not already proficient with these weapons, you gain proficiency with them. In addition, any of your feats that grant feat bonuses to attack rolls or damage rolls with one of your arena weapons apply to your other arena weapon as well.


That's the specific wording of the Fighter's Arena Training feature. The bolded section specifically overrides the rules on damage inflicted by improvised weapons, and does not say that the weapon must be a melee attack. So while you are correct on the range, the Fighter specifically overrides the damage normally done by improvised weapons. Therefore, you get 1d10 damage with the two-handed Garrote instead of the 1d4 damage you'd normally get.
Yeah, it works. Custserv is hilariously unreliable (I was one of the people that asked them how a charge works when I first joined the forum. They told me it required a standard and a move. Seriously?) and the Arena Training feature specifically sets the hit dice. The fact that he's using a garrote is completely irrelevant for the attack, damage or effects - it's interesting fluff, he could be wielding a statue for all it matters (and as I mentioned earlier, I had a fighter who did exactly that). Ki focus proficiency will give you an enhancement bonus as well, so you can maintain the trick throughout tiers.

So yeah, it works. It's silly, it doesn't break anything, and it sounds like it would be fun to play.
I don't need to prove anything to you, and I don't like your tone. Customer Service is wrong, and every other regular on this board can back me up.

Your right, you don't need to prove me right or wrong, but your words are just opinions and assertions unless you can back it up by fact. Your the one tossing around common sense and common sense that. You have given no parameters in which something is considered "fact" since apparently employees or people who have been given the authority to speak on their behalf has answered don't count.

So you can continue not having to prove anything to me I don't care, I made the call I got the answer I needed, you can do whatever you want but I at least did something to try to get an official answer to this question, instead of just giving my opinions and assertions




See hey look 2 people backed me up. I'm right! And your "official call" is it blatant disregard to the, idk, actual rules!
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
There's no need for that - the issue is settled, and the lesson is learned.
Thanks for your judgement
10/10 Would Flame Again: An Elite Paladin|Warlock The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed The Bookish Barbarian Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different That's right. Rules According to Zelink!
I have this urge to make a Hengeyokai cat person who throws coins now...

Bargle wrote:
This is CharOp. We not only assume block-of-tofu monsters, but also block-of-tofu DMs.
 

Zelink wrote:
You're already refluffing, why not refluff to something that doesn't suck?