Cleric needs more heals

2 per day is not enough. I liked 2 per encounter of 4th edition.

Also less than a hit die worth of heals feels weak, but nice to let cleric attack & heal on one action.
I disagree.

If he had more healing, he would be requried.  As is, no one really get's much healing, so everone is equal.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Considering our cleric used all his spell slots on CLW I think he's pretty much going to be looked at as required. He also hated that fact he couldn't do anything else but save the wizards life most of the time.
My group has not had any problems with the amount of healing. I think the discrepancy may come down to how you view encounters hit points and healing. The two clerics in my group (I've been playing the M-Cleric) have only used heals spells in combat when someone has less than 1 hits worth of hit points. Also neither of us have been saving spell slots for heals. We cast the spells we'd like to cast, and if there is a heal left when someone goes low, then great, otherwise, oh well. Consequently we've been relying much more on the healing kits. 

At 1st level we were able to do 3 encounters/day at that pace, and at 2nd about 4 encounters per day. We generally stopped when everyone was out of hit dice, and walking around with near half hit points. I know for the M-cleric, I've only used a healing spell about once a day at 1st and 2nd. I think about the same for the P-Cleric as he has played more as a radiant artillery piece than a healic.

I'm curious what your encounter load was, and how your cleric spell usage was in your group. 
We did five encounters without a long rest in first playtest (we basically cleared out the kobold warren), haven't had the second yet, at that point everyone had used all their spells and most had used their hit dice. Admittedly two kobolds criticalled the wizard with spears in the first round of combat, and his luck didn't improve much. The Cleric many stuck to hit at will powers, so those heals were there when needed. 

3/encounters a day sounds a lot like a 15 minute work day, which is not the sort of D&D I want to got back to.
It wouldn't bother me at all if hit points became a per-encounter resource, automatically refilling after a short rest. That would all but eliminate the short workday.
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Considering our cleric used all his spell slots on CLW I think he's pretty much going to be looked at as required. He also hated that fact he couldn't do anything else but save the wizards life most of the time.

Most of the time, your better off using spiritual hammer and prevent the damage in the first place.  Especially against kobolds.



If any healing is going to be boosted, make it either the hit dice or max HP (starting the day with 10 extra HP is very similar to healing 10 extra HP).  Something every charcter gets.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.


If any healing is going to be boosted, make it either the hit dice or max HP (starting the day with 10 extra HP is very similar to healing 10 extra HP).  Something every charcter gets.



I really agree. I they started with 3 Hit Dice and then incremented by 1, it would dramatically increase the daily longevity of a group. I'd really like to see that

But I'd definitly rather see the longevity of the party extended by improving non-divine recovery, as opposed to improving healing options. That just leans into forcing clerics to heal more and do whatever else less.

We did five encounters without a long rest in first playtest (we basically cleared out the kobold warren), haven't had the second yet, at that point everyone had used all their spells and most had used their hit dice. Admittedly two kobolds criticalled the wizard with spears in the first round of combat, and his luck didn't improve much. The Cleric many stuck to hit at will powers, so those heals were there when needed. 

3/encounters a day sounds a lot like a 15 minute work day, which is not the sort of D&D I want to got back to.



We're trying 3rd level next week, and we expect to have a lot more longevity just because all of the healing (except mine) will be maximized; but yeah, 1st level was tough. We actually did orcs, ogres and oozes for 1st level. We might've had better luck with kobolds.

3/encounters a day sounds a lot like a 15 minute work day, which is not the sort of D&D I want to got back to.


3 encounters a day seems fine to me.  Seriously, how many encounters do you think makes sense?  Should an adventuring party be expected to dispatch enemies 100 to 1 in a given day?  They are not superheroes.  Especially when you are talking about low-level characters.  I personally like the limited resources.  It makes players consider their actions more carefully.
My party took out the ogre and all of the goblins without stopping to rest.

The wizard has one spell left and the cleric of Pelor cast no cure lights. She used spiritual hammer, healing word and her potion. The only one seriously injured after the conflict was the slayer and that was because he went toe to toe with the ogre while the rest of the party lobbed range attacks (the wizard using ray of frost).

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

If CLW had a Ritual usage, it would allow the cleric to do more healing while not requiring more spell slots alloted to healing.
Why when you can just sleep it off?

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

I think the issue is more with "feeling that I have to save my spells in case we need healing," than not having enough healing.  I'd rather see healing options tied to Channel Divinity.  Channel Divinity (turn undead) at first level will be unused if there are no undead to fight.  Let the cleric use healing instead if he or she chooses.

In our first session, we went into the goblin caves...had 3 fights with goblins...then took on the Ogre.  The other Goblins bowed to our might and made friends with us so that we could talk with their chieftan.  Then we rested for the night.  That felt about right.

Our second session, we forced our way into the Hobgoblin area and had a massive battle with 10 hobgoblins (only 3 pcs and 1 NPC).  Then we found the prison, fought the two guards, released the prisoners and returned to the Goblin cave and then back to town.  This also felt right, especially for 1st level PCs.  (We probably could have gone further, but we achieved our objective so we got out).

I don't think 1st level PCs should be able to get too far...perhaps as HD healing increases and spell slots increase, we'll be able to go further as higher level PCs.  That would make sense.

Cheers. 

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

Old idea revamped: 
If you are a priest of a god of healing, you can have the domain power, convert spell prepared to cure light wound.
Old idea revamped: 
If you are a priest of a god of healing, you can have the domain power, convert spell prepared to cure light wound.

Clerics don't prepare spells in slots anymore--they prepare spells and then can use their slots on any of their prepared spells.  It's like a mix of Wizards and Sorcerers from 3rd edition.

I also don't think the Cleric needs any more healing--Cleric players need to be less concerned with saving their resources for healing and non-cleric players need to stop putting pressure on Clerics to save everything for healing.  The game doesn't need in combat healing--be more careful.

Why when you can just sleep it off?


Because you can do so without expending 8-hours for a long rest. Spend 10-30 minutes to get back in fighting shape and keep going. If the party is completely borked, yeah, go sleep it off.

3 encounters a day seems fine to me.  Seriously, how many encounters do you think makes sense?  Should an adventuring party be expected to dispatch enemies 100 to 1 in a given day?  They are not superheroes.  Especially when you are talking about low-level characters.  I personally like the limited resources.  It makes players consider their actions more carefully.



Personally I believe that may instead cause them to blow everything at once and go rest till tomorrow. But maybe I'm being cynical about it: I'd rather encourage the party keep going as long as possible.

3/encounters a day sounds a lot like a 15 minute work day, which is not the sort of D&D I want to got back to.


3 encounters a day seems fine to me.  Seriously, how many encounters do you think makes sense?



As many as the adventure calls for, I want my players to be effective from dawn to dusk, and still able to fight if they get surprised in the night. I don't want them running out of resources and forced to call it a day soon after breakfast, because their single Hit Dice and spells have been used. 

I disagree.

If he had more healing, he would be requried.  As is, no one really get's much healing, so everone is equal.



Yeah, I've always hated making combat healing too good, because it instantly makes the character required.

If any healing is going to be boosted, make it either the hit dice or max HP (starting the day with 10 extra HP is very similar to healing 10 extra HP).  Something every charcter gets.



An easy way around that is to start at 3rd level. 

I think the healing feels good at first level.  We did a three man with only the cleric of Moradin last night and did fine.  The only point where our HP resource got a little hairy was when we bashed a door in and stumbled into an encounter we weren't prepaired for, (so we ran)

3 encounters a day seems fine to me.  Seriously, how many encounters do you think makes sense?  Should an adventuring party be expected to dispatch enemies 100 to 1 in a given day?  They are not superheroes.  Especially when you are talking about low-level characters.  I personally like the limited resources.  It makes players consider their actions more carefully.



Personally I believe that may instead cause them to blow everything at once and go rest till tomorrow. But maybe I'm being cynical about it: I'd rather encourage the party keep going as long as possible.




Our limitation was HP and hit dice. If someone had low hp and no hit dice we stopped. The clerics usually ran out of spells before that and IIRC the wizard has never used all his leveled spells in a day yet. We've never considered stopping because the casters were out of spells. For the wizard and the P-cleric I think that's due to the usefulness of their at-wills. I play the M-cleric and although that at-will is mostly useless, I've got no issue just bringing down the hammer.

Obviously, that does come down to the approach of the particular group, but that was our experience. 
But you see, more use of the wizards leveled spells puts more enemies into the grave per casting.

This means less potential damage received by the group.

Manage these resources better for a longer push through the adventure.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

If it was me ....

Our wizard is complete weenie. He takes burning hands but he's too much of wuss to use stick and move tactics to get it off. He'd be better off just taking Sleep x 3, but that's his call. We don't run each other's characters, we just live with it. 
Sleep can be just as effective against the smaller beasts.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.