Guardian theme

I got to play the guardian themed cleric and was very disappointed. While the ability to give disadvantage is a good ability, the fact that, as the defender, I had no way of stopping enemies from "dancing around in my threat range". The enemies just walked around me and got into a position so that I couldn't do anything. Attacks of opportunity and marking were amazing ways to make sure this didn't happen. What is the point of playing a defender when u can't defend your allies. I absolutely hate that the fighter just has basic attacks and the wizard gets to cast spells at will (cantrips seem to be pretty power full. Magic missile always hits and deals OK damage, uses no ammunition, and has a good range.) Also don't like to hit rolls don't increase at lvl 3. I think this system needs a little more 4th edition rules to solidify it's rules. Giving a wizard a wand would make more sense than magic missile at will.
You protect the ally your standing next to.  Doesn't matter where the monster is or what he's attacking with.

So they can dance all they want, as long as your next to the wizard, you can offer him some protectection.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I understand that, but I was trying to plug a 10ft path and they were able to walk around me and attack the guys behind me several squares away
If I had attacks of opportunity I could have dissuaded them from moving past me
That's a good point.  Also consider that the Fighter and the Guardian Cleric should be standing side by side to create a wall.  The other's should stand behind you to provide fire support over you.
Also almost all of the char sheets had some discrepencies on the. Fighters weapon dmg and attack bonus was wrong, healy clearic's attack and dmg bonus was also wrong.
To athavult, it only works when we both go at same I it. If I go, then baddies, then fighter, its useless. I know I could have delayed the action, but doing so I couldn't have plugged the hole.
To mellored, the ability is only usable once per turn, not effective against minion type creatures
as far as the Defender theme goes, I think that the 3rd level ability needs to be switched with the first level ability. As far as the wizard goes, I'm happy with it as it is now. Assuming that magic missile doesn't get MAM (magic ability modifier), it only gets 2-5 damage once per turn and then twice per turn at third level. While that means a one in four chance of killing a goblin in one hit at level one, it doesn't even register to things like wights and ogres. And what the wizard gains in per turn guaranteed damage it loses in being squishy and unable to add int to AC. As far as too hit rolls go, it's part of the new design philosophy that an army of low level warriors still poses a reasonable threat to an elder dragon. as it appears right now, 1/2 level bonuses are dead in favor of hp determining resilience, and I must confess that I like this direction. The fact that creatures like Orcus were immune to damage from creatures with too low a number of a concept as arbitrary as experience points really turned me off of DnD and onto GURPS. I'm now pretty excited by it's demise.
I understand that, but I was trying to plug a 10ft path and they were able to walk around me and attack the guys behind me several squares away

I think that's a knock on your GM, honestly.  When I run this game, and a big armored guy stands in a narrow hallway, the bad guys, you know, fight him because they can't get by.  The only time I would have them run by is if they improvised some sort of distraction--sand in your eyes or something.

People seem to forget to use logic when making decisions when they are used to mechanics making those decisions for them.

Here we go again with blaming the DM for bad gameplay because he did something that you didn't like.

@thestoryteller,

Are you suggesting that every player should stop their character at the first single monster that they see blocking a 10ft hallway because it's common sense?

I think we all know the answer to that question and you know how ridiculous it's going to sound if you answer anything but 'No'.

If the rules don't prevent moving around a single creature then it is "Logical" to take advantage of the rules "gap".  Logic is the application of intelligence being applied to decision making.

The OP is merely suggesting that it doesn't make sense to him that WoTC has created a gap in the rules in 5E that was not a gap in 4E and that rule was that AoO didn't allow monsters to simply run past PCs unchallenged.

I'd say he's simply trying to ask the question "If it wasn't broke, why'd you "fix" it?" 
We decided that it took two characters to block the hallway.

I never played 4e. What does the OP mean by "Marking"?
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
In the excellent 4e system, fighters got to "mark" a target under certain conditions.  This did not prevent the target from attacking someone else, but it did penalize them for doing so.  Sometimes that penalty was damage, sometimes it was movement restrictions, etc.

When combined with AoO, it allowed a level of tactical play not seen in prior (and now lacking in future) D&D editions. 
We decided that it took two characters to block the hallway.

I never played 4e. What does the OP mean by "Marking"?


It worked differently depending on the Defender, but for the basic Fighter, when he attacked an enemy, it was marked by him. As long as it was marked, it took a -2 penalty to attacking someone else, and if it tried to shift away from the Fighter, or attack someone else while next to the Fighter, the Fighter would punch him in the face.
I understand that, but I was trying to plug a 10ft path and they were able to walk around me and attack the guys behind me several squares away

I think that's a knock on your GM, honestly.  When I run this game, and a big armored guy stands in a narrow hallway, the bad guys, you know, fight him because they can't get by.  The only time I would have them run by is if they improvised some sort of distraction--sand in your eyes or something.

People seem to forget to use logic when making decisions when they are used to mechanics making those decisions for them.




I distinctly remember a scene from Fellowship of the Ring where the companions were in the mines of Moria and as the Goblins surged in, they pretty much just ran around anyone who stood in their way (namely Boromir) to attack the weaker hobbits and Wizard. They're not always going to stand Toe-to-Toe with the Fighter because it's the nice thing to do.
I remember that scene as well, and while I would never advocate that a Fighter can hold a whole 10' wide hallway by himself, but he should at least get a chance to swing his sword once.  I'm not saying that a mob shouldn't be able to overrun 1 individual, that's kind of what mobs do.

I'm saying that a mob moving in onseys and twoseys should be able to get mowed down by that same accord.  Or at the very least the main body of the mob pauses as they watch one guy get cut down and then decide to rush the guy anyways.
"Excuse me! Coming through. Let us just slide between your men. Thank you!" Xerxes to Leonidas at Thermopylae.

There has to be some way of fighters blocking off a passage. We house ruled that two people could block off a 10 ft passage. This was influenced by the grid map from our 3.5e games.

In this case, if you put the Guardian in the second row, the defender feat would allow them to protect the front row while never being exposed.
I started playing D&D in the 80's. I've played D&D, 1e, 2e, and 3.xe (and many other RPGs). I also played Magic since it came out (except for a few years around the change of the millennium. I say this so you know a bit of my experience, not because I care about editions.
"Excuse me! Coming through. Let us just slide between your men. Thank you!" Xerxes to Leonidas at Thermopylae.

There has to be some way of fighters blocking off a passage. We house ruled that two people could block off a 10 ft passage. This was influenced by the grid map from our 3.5e games.

In this case, if you put the Guardian in the second row, the defender feat would allow them to protect the front row while never being exposed.



the question is why would you put this playtest defender in the back row - it does have the highest AC .

 

IMAGE(http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg)

Are you really "entitled to your opinion"?
RedSiegfried wrote:
The cool thing is, you don't even NEED a reason to say yes.  Just stop looking for a reason to say no.
"Excuse me! Coming through. Let us just slide between your men. Thank you!" Xerxes to Leonidas at Thermopylae.

There has to be some way of fighters blocking off a passage. We house ruled that two people could block off a 10 ft passage. This was influenced by the grid map from our 3.5e games.

In this case, if you put the Guardian in the second row, the defender feat would allow them to protect the front row while never being exposed.

the question is why would you put this playtest defender in the back row - it does have the highest AC .

If you fight 3 targets, yea.. have the high AC in the front.

But if your fighting 1 target, disavantage is worse then attacking +2 AC, so hiding in the back is where he will do the most good.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.