An official response from WOTC

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In reponse to my inquires concerning the projected release of a future AAM (land) set, WOTC stated no work was being done with such a set at this time for a release this year. The explanation given was that all miniature efforts were concentrated on the Angels 20 set II scheduled for an early 2014 release.

Nothing was said to indicate an end of product line or confirm its continuation.

GW
Your Avalon Hill VCL 0c9b9c4639e3c9294f5e1f424cee47a3.jpg?v=42600
The explanation given was that all miniature efforts were concentrated on the Angels 20 set II scheduled for an early 2014 release.


Did you mean 2013?    2014 is a long ways away.

The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation. Ian Hogg IMAGE(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/obermasterfuhrer/Axis%20and%20Allies/Resignationsig2.jpg)A&A Underground AAM Database
The explanation given was that all miniature efforts were concentrated on the Angels 20 set II scheduled for an early 2014 release.


Did you mean 2013?    2014 is a long ways away.




I really hope he meant 2013 also!

I've always tried to be very optimistic about the game but at least two years without a set for AAM and WAS is pretty telling.
Viva la Resistance! Proud Member of Axis & Allies Underground
An open letter to WoC customer support.

I have vigorously stayed out of Angels 20 because I don't want to end up with yet another incomplete collection. The WoC telling me that they have shifted their production to A20 only makes me feel that I made the right decision. I can bet money that even that they will leave incomplete.
I wish they gave the whole WaS series to Fantasy Flight games, as they did with the Star War miniatures. A game that I never got into while published under WoC but strongly considering now.

If you seriously expect me to buy your product you should at least make any efforts possible to convince me that you are going to provide me with a full collection.
Unfortunately your WaS and AAM history points towards you (WoC) being a totally unreliable provider.


You guys should get your act together because you are losing money. (at least my money)

Sincerely yours
Yannis A.K.A. "tsondaboy"
IMAGE(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/NeuralDream/AxisAllies/TsondaboySig1.jpg)
I raised an eyebrow at the ANGELS 20 set II release as well. I was originaly told through other sources 2013 but that was not official. Keep in mind however there is no direct connection to A20 II release date and "not at this time". The entire e-mail was far to ambiguise to say one or the other concerning WAS or AAM. I already have information on board game releases that were not included in the response. I do not post this as something may have changed I was not privy to. My desire not to propigate false rumors or violate my disclosure agreement constrains me from posting what could be good news to the comunity but I will say I don't have any fatalistic news concerning any of the miniture games under the AH banner.

GW
Your Avalon Hill VCL 0c9b9c4639e3c9294f5e1f424cee47a3.jpg?v=42600
AT least we know! :D That's really all I was wanting... any info is great, and now we can at least know that we can make our own sets this year!
An open letter to WoC customer support.

I have vigorously stayed out of Angels 20 because I don't want to end up with yet another incomplete collection. The WoC telling me that they have shifted their production to A20 only makes me feel that I made the right decision. I can bet money that even that they will leave incomplete.
I wish they gave the whole WaS series to Fantasy Flight games, as they did with the Star War miniatures. A game that I never got into while published under WoC but strongly considering now.

If you seriously expect me to buy your product you should at least make any efforts possible to convince me that you are going to provide me with a full collection.
Unfortunately your WaS and AAM history points towards you (WoC) being a totally unreliable provider.


You guys should get your act together because you are losing money. (at least my money)

Sincerely yours
Yannis A.K.A. "tsondaboy"


HEAR HEAR!
Sad news on all fronts.
Good news is we still have eachother.

Since I now have over 10,210 points for army builds (yes, 102 times 100 pt armies) I thought it was time for a promotion.
... and now we can at least know that we can make our own sets this year!

What does that even mean? - you got some plastic to melt and some molds?


Since I now have over 10,210 points for army builds (yes, 102 times 100 pt armies) I thought it was time for a promotion.
Almost! ;)
Disappointing to say the least.  Like Yannis said, this is why I did not invest in Angels 20 and don't plan to.  The firing of RB and staff shortly after release convinced me this was a poor investment, and I've seen nothing to change my mind.
... and now we can at least know that we can make our own sets this year!

What does that even mean? - you got some plastic to melt and some molds?




I guess he is talking about the current community driven effort.
www.12-7-games.com/catalog/war-at-sea-si...
aaminis.myfastforum.org/about33683.html
IMAGE(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/NeuralDream/AxisAllies/TsondaboySig1.jpg)
I don't think we should shift the blame to A20 - its a nice game with "some" potential - (I admit I also did not invent beyond a full set - Not getting multiples of the rares like WAS and AAM)

We have a dog chasing its own tail.

It seems they did not get enough money out of the recent sets (1939-1945? +) thus they cut support and investment which in turn let to even lesser sales...

If they consider to "restart" in 1-2 years it would be fine with me - my collection is large enough to play for the next few years with being able to make a NEW build each few dayys if I want...

Even if the game dies - we will always have the units already aquired - and we will have the possibility to buy minis from other companies (plenty of 15mm out there) and expand the game according to our own wishes.

We don't need them to produce new things to play with the things we already have - it would be nice, but we can do without...

I hope the relevant people look to other places too, because elsewhere the AAM/WAS/(A20) game thrives. - Its only extinct in the environment it was born into ;)
...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
I don't think we should shift the blame to A20 - its a nice game with "some" potential - (I admit I also did not invent beyond a full set - Not getting multiples of the rares like WAS and AAM)


I don't think folks are shifting blame to A20.  I believe it's more of telling signs on how WoTC has handled the AA Miniature line/personnel which gives an indication of what to expect for their future AA Miniature products.  It's been over 4 months of the release of A20 and they aren't even supporting errata or addressing questions folks spend ~$25 retail on boosters.  Utterly ridiculous. Speaking of which, it's been over a year and they haven't even done anything officially for Counter Offensive issues.


It seems they did not get enough money out of the recent sets (1939-1945? +) thus they cut support and investment which in turn let to even lesser sales...


To my knowledge WoTC sold out of their inventory for 1939-1945, NA and EF.  Plus in addition they had a price hike of 2~4 dollars on the sets.  So, they probably made some additional profits on the increase. 


If they consider to "restart" in 1-2 years it would be fine with me


Folks probably have differing opinions on this.  However, if WoTC decides to restart this product line then I won't buy into it.  I already invested enough dollars into AAM and I'm not going to stand by a company who won't stand by/deliver on a quality product, support their products and value their customers (instead of their dollars).  It's the lessons I learned from how WoTC has handled the AAM line (Since EF and on) and as a result this company can see this customer spend my money elsewhere on any future collectible/extensive product lines.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me.
It's the lessons I learned from how WoTC has handled the AAM line (Since EF and on) and as a result this company can see this customer spend my money elsewhere on any future collectible/extensive product lines.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me.




+1
IMAGE(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/NeuralDream/AxisAllies/TsondaboySig1.jpg)
It's the lessons I learned from how WoTC has handled the AAM line (Since EF and on) and as a result this company can see this customer spend my money elsewhere on any future collectible/extensive product lines.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me.




+1



Voting with money is a good thing, but according to THEM we already did this - so they cut support - seems we did not vote enough for the sets like 39-45... ;)

Yes there HAVE been issues - but they have been here from day one. Some were corrected, some were neglected and some were left open - but aggain show me a game were this does NOT happen ...

And honestly - some points people were angry about were simply personal taste...

The (insert unit name) is too powerful/weak/ - costs too much/less
I don't like minors/installations/planes/whatever - There is not enough...
What still NO 25-Pounder/Staff sergeant (Easy Company xxxBT YY Division Year 194Z equipment)

Honestly - we are viewing on 10sets with roughly 550+ slots total - adding up to around 400+ different pieces. Thats a lot of stuff - MORE than I ever expected. I am not satisfied too (still want many more things), but I am glad I got what is availabe. WAs at sea was done with the assumption there is only one set, we got 4 more!

The game has still many miles to go to reach a point where all (most) are satisfied, but we have come further than anyone before (even the famed Flames of Wr minis do not offer all we want)

IMNSHO this is a case for the famous glass of wine - half empty or half full - both is true : BUt YOU decide how you feel...

taking inother stuff is fine - abandoning the line and using only other stuff exclusively is also a way to go, but abandoning gaming is also NO option...

my2Eurocents (aka 2,5 UScents :D)



...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
WAs at sea was done with the assumption there is only one set, we got 4 more!



Well, if that was ever true, then WoC can be accused for false advertising.
From the game description "Fast-paced and action-packed, this exciting, miniatures game lets players recreate historical battles or go head-to-head in competitive warfare raging across massive 30”x40” battle map." one should be able to recreate historical battles.
Can you tell me which historical battle can you recreate using Set 1?

In addition, ask someone to name you a famous naval battle during WW2. I am willing to bet money that "Midway" and "Pearl Harbor" will be among the most quoted ones.

6 sets in, can someone recreate either the attack on Pearl Harbor or Midway?
NO you cant, because there are key units missing.

I got into WaS because I fell for the "recreate historical battles" advertising campaign from WoC.
Not being able to recreate some of the most important naval battles of WW2 makes me feel greatly deceived!



PS: Any reply to this post, make sure you dont use the word "proxy". It will only piss me off even more...Yell
IMAGE(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/NeuralDream/AxisAllies/TsondaboySig1.jpg)

And honestly - some points people were angry about were simply personal taste...


I agree.  Some issues were about personal tastes.  The issue for me I don't think are personal taste.  It's more about a company doing a:

1.) 45% price hike in 2 years (From NA $10.99 to CO $15.99)
2.) Substantially decreasing the quality of product at the same time (Lower quality stat cards, 25%+ V2 reprints, etc)
3.) Lack of product support to even to the point were the company doesn't even supply an errata (Use to do Combat Zone kits, previews, gallery, etc).

Essentially a lower quality product at a higher cost and a decrease in product support.  Passing the buck to the customer and only caring about the Ben Franklins.

If the want to run their business that way then I'm ok with it.  I'll bring my business elsewhere.
It's the lessons I learned from how WoTC has handled the AAM line (Since EF and on) and as a result this company can see this customer spend my money elsewhere on any future collectible/extensive product lines.  Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me.




+1



Voting with money is a good thing, but according to THEM we already did this - so they cut support - seems we did not vote enough for the sets like 39-45... ;)

Yes there HAVE been issues - but they have been here from day one. Some were corrected, some were neglected and some were left open - but aggain show me a game were this does NOT happen ...

And honestly - some points people were angry about were simply personal taste...

The (insert unit name) is too powerful/weak/ - costs too much/less
I don't like minors/installations/planes/whatever - There is not enough...
What still NO 25-Pounder/Staff sergeant (Easy Company xxxBT YY Division Year 194Z equipment)

Honestly - we are viewing on 10sets with roughly 550+ slots total - adding up to around 400+ different pieces. Thats a lot of stuff - MORE than I ever expected. I am not satisfied too (still want many more things), but I am glad I got what is availabe. WAs at sea was done with the assumption there is only one set, we got 4 more!

The game has still many miles to go to reach a point where all (most) are satisfied, but we have come further than anyone before (even the famed Flames of Wr minis do not offer all we want)

IMNSHO this is a case for the famous glass of wine - half empty or half full - both is true : BUt YOU decide how you feel...

taking inother stuff is fine - abandoning the line and using only other stuff exclusively is also a way to go, but abandoning gaming is also NO option...

my2Eurocents (aka 2,5 UScents :D)





Well said!
The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation. Ian Hogg IMAGE(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/obermasterfuhrer/Axis%20and%20Allies/Resignationsig2.jpg)A&A Underground AAM Database
WAs at sea was done with the assumption there is only one set, we got 4 more!



Well, if that was ever true, then WoC can be accused for false advertising.
From the game description "Fast-paced and action-packed, this exciting, miniatures game lets players recreate historical battles or go head-to-head in competitive warfare raging across massive 30”x40” battle map." one should be able to recreate historical battles.
Can you tell me which historical battle can you recreate using Set 1?

In addition, ask someone to name you a famous naval battle during WW2. I am willing to bet money that "Midway" and "Pearl Harbor" will be among the most quoted ones.

6 sets in, can someone recreate either the attack on Pearl Harbor or Midway?
NO you cant, because there are key units missing.

I got into WaS because I fell for the "recreate historical battles" advertising campaign from WoC.
Not being able to recreate some of the most important naval battles of WW2 makes me feel greatly deceived!



PS: Any reply to this post, make sure you dont use the word "proxy". It will only piss me off even more...Yell



OK - how about substitute?

...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
OK - how about substitute?

IMAGE(http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/images/smiles/awesome/blowup.gif)IMAGE(http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/images/smiles/awesome/blowup.gif)IMAGE(http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/images/smiles/awesome/blowup.gif)IMAGE(http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/images/smiles/awesome/blowup.gif)
IMAGE(http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r111/NeuralDream/AxisAllies/TsondaboySig1.jpg)
While this is sad news I think we all expected it....
The fall of DDM, SWM and now AAM(WAS) lines shows wotc unwillingness to support such games anymore.
I see 1 more A20 set, then the books of wotc painted plastic closed for good.....  Hope I'm wrong
Even if the game dies - we will always have the units already aquired - and we will have the possibility to buy minis from other companies (plenty of 15mm out there) and expand the game according to our own wishes.

We don't need them to produce new things to play with the things we already have - it would be nice, but we can do without...

I hope the relevant people look to other places too, because elsewhere the AAM/WAS/(A20) game thrives. - Its only extinct in the environment it was born into ;)




agreed.  I was skeptical when it first came out, and I waited for a friend to pick up his starter and boosters for the intro tourneys, to show me how it plays.  turned out to be a better game than first thought, and they went through a lot of effort to improve it since.

in any event, however long it lasts, I have a lot of quality pieces to play any miniatures system in the future, so I'm happy to have what I have (which is a lot).   Sealed
So bandits is out! I wonder what everybody at WotC is doing with their time? Solitare, freecell or are you guys working in a new set? All kidding aside I know you guys must be working on something. Give us a sign.
The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation. Ian Hogg IMAGE(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/obermasterfuhrer/Axis%20and%20Allies/Resignationsig2.jpg)A&A Underground AAM Database
The Wotc is so unreliable and your decision only makes me no longer support your products unless u can finish all the sea and the land units first. Tsaonaboy was so right and I will abaolutely stay away from the Angel 20 too. if u want to make profit again then u should at least make urself a promising enterprise.
Dude, why all the anger? There are just games and there's lots of options to continue playing even if the support has ended. The Forumini does card expansion decks and the Underground sells 15mm miniatures. We have the revised card database for WaS and AAM. Remember only the official support has ended....not the player support, its alive and well. Game-on!

Cheers
Ober
The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation. Ian Hogg IMAGE(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/obermasterfuhrer/Axis%20and%20Allies/Resignationsig2.jpg)A&A Underground AAM Database
Well said Ober!
@M2A0 - The bandits High AAM cards are going in the card database this week-end. Is there any errata or clarifications that should be attached to the cards? If so, is there any chance I could get the information?

Cheers
Ober
The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation. Ian Hogg IMAGE(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu197/obermasterfuhrer/Axis%20and%20Allies/Resignationsig2.jpg)A&A Underground AAM Database
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