The Official Euro2012 Thread

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It begins, with Poland vs. Greece. Let's hope our team doesn't go totally koko koko euro spoko.


Discuss (I know there's at least one guy interested in soccer here).


It begins, with Poland vs. Greece. Let's hope our team doesn't go totally koko koko euro spoko.


Discuss (I know there's at least one guy interested in soccer here).


I think that would be me.Smile

I will be watching todays games on and off at work.  Good that Poland is in Group A...probably the tamest group.  Who knows what could happen, and Poland has home advantage.  I have some love for Czech Republic as Peter Cech is the keeper for my team, and he is amazing.  

Anyhow....Go Poland!

My first game is Monday...England v. France.  (Three Lions!)

I am a little worried about Team England...injuries, new coach, etc. etc.
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Oooh, England vs. France? That should be brutal.
Oooh, England vs. France? That should be brutal.


Boraxe wrote: "Knowledge of the rules and creativity are great attributes for a DM, but knowing when to cut loose and when to hold back, when to follow the rules and when to discard them, in order to enhance the enjoyment of the game is the most important DM skill of all." Keeper of the Sacred Kitty Bowl of the House of Trolls. Resident Kitteh-napper.
Oooh, England vs. France? That should be brutal.


Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!

Just think of Napolean!!! And you better be thanking France for the Statue of Liberty and the fries you eat next to your burger everyday!!one!eleven!!

 [/ignorantpersonrant] ;)

Your friendly neighborhood Revenant Minotaur Half-Blooded Dragonborn Fighter Hybrid Barbarian Multiclassing into Warlord

IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1223957875/Scorecards/Landscape.png)

Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!

Just think of Napolean!!! And you better be thanking France for the Statue of Liberty and the fries you eat next to your burger everyday!!one!eleven!!

 [/ignorantpersonrant] ;)



Americans can thank France for the Revolution.  France can thank Americans for WWI ... and II.  ;)

By the way, Napoleon got his ass handed to him in Russia and Hitler crushed France and it's much vaunted (but stupidly designed) Maginot line in weeks.  So ... yeah.  France?  She loses like few others. 

As far as soccer goes, who cares?  Go Poland, I guess.  I am Polish in heritage. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]


Hey, don't burn France! I may know crap nothing about soccer, but I know France never loses a fight!!


Yeah... because they always surrender!
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley "The straw in your man is amazing."- Maxperson Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool Resident Hater Mini Hate Machine
I was actually reffering to English and French always being mortal enemies, but whatever
The match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull. Tough I never was much of a sports fan.
The score is 1-1.
And that's another reason soccer sucks.  Ties are terrible.  At least in most sports that allow them they come up pretty rarely.  Soccer?  Allthefriggintime.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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The match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull.

You talk about soccer... and this surprises you?!

As for France: Napolean got beaten down by Russia's best general, on horseback, in conditions worse than the Third Reich.  Nothing wrong with that.  He did lose at Waterloo, though.  

Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.   
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
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56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls


Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.   


"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley "The straw in your man is amazing."- Maxperson Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool Resident Hater Mini Hate Machine
Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.   


GO ENGLAND!
Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.   

GO ENGLAND!

PRECISELY!
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same. If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter." -Condoleezza Rice "My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan This user has been banned from you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"
User Quotes
56788208 wrote:
I do, however, have one last lesson on this subject. That last one? The only build in this post that can one-shot average opponents[by dealing twice as much damage as they have HP? I would argue that it is not optimized. Why isn't it optimized? Because it's overkill. Overkill is NOT optimizing. This means that there are portions of this build dedicated to damage which can safely be removed and thrown elsewhere. For example, you probably don't need both Leap Attack AND Headlong Rush at the same time. You could pick up Extra Rage feats for stamina, feats to support AoO effects, feats that work towards potential prestige classes, and so on. However, you could also shift our ability scores around somewhat. I mean, if you're getting results like that with 16 starting Strength, maybe you can lower it to 14, and free up four points to spend somewhere else - perhaps back into Charisma, giving you some oomph for Intimidating Rage or Imperious Command if you want. You can continue to tune this until it deals "enough" damage - and that "enough" does not need to be "100%". It could easily be, say, 80% (leaving the rest to the team), if your DM is the sort who would ban one-hit killers.
Tempest_Stormwind on Character Optimization
So when do you think Bachmann will be saying she met a mother the previous night that had a son who got a blood transfusion using a gay guy's blood, and now the son is retardedly gay?
When she meets CJ's mom?
Resident Pithed-Off Dragon Poon Slayer of the House of Trolls
Oh, and another thing to "thank" France for: Quebec.   

GO ENGLAND!

PRECISELY!


Mega-dittos!
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse."- John Stuart Mill “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”― William F. Buckley "The straw in your man is amazing."- Maxperson Original Hipster of the House of Trolls: I was hipster before hipster was cool Resident Hater Mini Hate Machine
The match is over, and while it started fun, ended up being kind of a pile of dull. Tough I never was much of a sports fan.
The score is 1-1.

At least they still got a point...too bad they weren't able to capitilise on the Greek player being sent off and lost a player themselves.  Russia was looking good, they have been on a roll recently.  I can't believe Peter Cech let 4 in...his defenders must have been rubbish.

So today is the Group of Death!  Netherlands v. Denmark and Germany v. Portugal.Smile  

Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Ok, I bet the Euro will make it out of 2012 "alive". That is Germany will finally agree to Eurobonds and give more powers to the Europeen central bank.

It's the only way to get out of the present crisis.

...and I think Germany might win this thing.

David Cameron comments on Eurozone superstate.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-...
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Poland vs Russia today!
I smell a disgraceful defeat, but I've been known to be wrong
So, the game ended on a 1:1 again, but this time our team played so good they made stale Carlsberg drinkable. They were on par with the Russians and now have to win against the Czech, whom the former tore through.
So, the game ended on a 1:1 again, but this time our team played so good they made stale Carlsberg drinkable. They were on par with the Russians and now have to win against the Czech, whom the former tore through.

Good show against the Russians.  I thought they were looking like one of the best teams in the cup.  So you guys have to beat Czech Republic, I don't think there are any other permutations.

So England came to a draw against France Yesterday.  I am actually pleased with the result, considering some of the problems with the team.  They play Sweden next.

(FYI There are only draws in group stage, starting with the round of 8, it goes to extra time and then a shoot out if necessary.)

Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Draws as part of a tournament are stupid no matter when they're allowed to occur.  Derp.

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Stoked, England beat Sweden yesterday 3-2.  Great Game.  Next four days are going to be really exciting with only 2 out of 16 teams knowing if they are going to the finals or not.

Sweden, Ireland: Out

www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/news/newsid=181800...
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Damn, I missed it.
I'm watching Poland-Czech right now and though it started nice, our team got a lot more slow later. 0:0 so far.
Hope they get a second wind for the second half.
...crap.

Czechs and Greeks advance.
...crap.

Czechs and Greeks advance.

Sorry mateFrown

Group of Death tomorrow!  Pretty sure Germany will advance...but who knows about the second spot (Denmark or Portugal?)

England plays their final group stage game on Tuesday v. Ukraine....they only need a draw.
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
So England beats Ukraine 1-0, wins their group and advances.  They play Italy next on Sunday in the group of 8.

Other games:

Germany v. Greece (Ironic)
Czech Republic v. Portugal
Spain v. France
Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Here's a quick summary of the group advances for those uninformed:
Any good fights yet?
Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
Any good fights yet?

No fights on the pitch that I have seen, but there has been some fan violence.  Some of the football associations have been fined for the conduct of some of these fans.  I think I have heard of incidents among Russians, Poles and Croats the most.  Amazing not a single English fan has been arrested yet.

 

Chelsea FC - winner of 2012 FA Cup and Champions League Champions of Europe! Three Lions Resident Footie
Man, and the Europeans consider Americans too nationalistic.  Derp.
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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Man, and the Europeans consider Americans too nationalistic.  Derp.


We at least pretend we get along well
But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).
We at least pretend we get along well
But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).



Plenty of racism, too, IIRC.  Know what?  I like soccer now.  Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.  ;)

That explains it.  The Europeans are just projecting. 
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Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

We at least pretend we get along well
But yeah, plenty of jingoism in Europe too, excpet maybe in Germany (they're careful about that for some reason).



Plenty of racism, too, IIRC.  Know what?  I like soccer now.  Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.  ;)

That explains it.  The Europeans are just projecting. 


Oi, you Americans got there from somewhere :P

The differences between American and European way of being patriotic is an interesting topic though. Nowhere else a character like Captain America could be made to be taken seriously and survive for so long.
That's true.  I think a big difference is that over here most people don't recognize how much brainwashing was goin' on when they were kids. 
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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

That's true.  I think a big difference is that over here most people don't recognize how much brainwashing was goin' on when they were kids. 


I hear some kids get their brain washed so hard that they end up bald.
So, how do you style your hair  
Nut Eating Resident Sociopathic Eye Forker 2346-strong Squirrel leigon of DOOM Squirrel Overlord of the House of Trolls Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber. ~Plato Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy. ~Ernest Benn The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it. ~P.J. O'Rourke "I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs." ~ Chael Sonnen It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it! ~ Upton Sinclair Kicked Adam and Eve out of Missouri. Wears flip-flops in church buildings. Official troller of Kolob.
This is not a trapp
My temple name is Elohim. What is your super-secret temple name?
Riddle me this
How can two people with physical bodies make spirit babies?
*Two points about this gag. Firstly, every writer of anything makes typos and I’m no different. It’s “there but for the grace of God go I” rather than schadenfreude here. The second is something called Muphry’s Law (no, it is Muphry’s, not Murphy’s) which states that any piece correcting or laughing at a typo, spelling or grammatical mistake will contain at least one worse than the original being complained of.
Know what?  I like soccer now.  Cuz any time some European talks to me about ridiculous patriotism or racism here, I'll just point to the 'world's greatest sport'.  ;)

That explains it.  The Europeans are just projecting. 

Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting ;) In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US, so talking about anything specifically European is a lot harder), and racism doesn't even enter into it.

Most of what you seem to confuse with the destructive and tacky displays of national arrogance you're familiar with, is not about the national superiority of the nation whose citizens display it. It's about national inferiority of the other nation. It's not self-love, it's other-hate. It's not that we think that our country is amazing, it's that we know that the other country is ****.

Warning, wall of text

In order to understand the European mentality, you need to get rid of that glass-half-full attitude, because our people have been through things the Americans have never come close to (at least not the white ones) Think of every bad thing ever happening to your country, every national humiliation, every war you fought, every enemy you made, every atrocity you committed and then tried to justify, every national trauma, everything. Then imagine experiencing the equivalent of that over the span of less than a century. Then imagine your nation/people had at least twice as many centuries behind it as the US (and most likely more).


Of course we hate each other. And of course we're going to use sports to show it. Because our ancestors had to live with the consequences of war for too long for most of us to want to start it again, but also for too long (and too recently) for many of us to have truly forgiven the other side. So we make good of the options we get to fight each other. Danes, for instance, hate Swedes. Don't get me wrong, they're our kin and we see them almost as an extension of ourselves, but we still hate them so much that the island of Sjælland, being closer to Sweden than the rest of the country, is interchangeably referred to as “The Devil's Island” and “Reserve-Sweden” (the latter being considered by far the greatest insult). We might talk about them as our fellow Nordic brothers, but we're never more petty than when playing against them.


And we're being reasonable about it, despite the most recent Swedish atrocities against us taking place less than 400 years ago. Compare that to the Serbs who still think of Albanians as newcomers to their country, due to them (possibly) only having been there since the 11th century, instead of the 6th century like the Serbs (argument taken from a youtube comment, I make no claim to its validity, but it does fit the Serbian attitude I've heard most about even outside the internet). Seriously ZB, you can't begin to understand how gracious it is for many of those countries to only have occasional sports-fuelled riots and street fights against each other. That's like sitting in the same room with the guy who killed your mother without drawing a gun on him. No matter what else you do, that degree of restraint is actually immensely civilised, and I haven't met many Americans who could replicate it (well actually, I have, but they've mostly been Canadians ).


Europeans are, as a rule, a lot more cynical than Americans this way. It's a lot less about promoting ourselves, and a lot more about getting the other country down. While some arrogance can be found in various European nations (mostly the degenerate southern parts and the trashy eastern parts, and of course the UK, after which the US is modelled. We in the non-British north/north-west part are usually above it ;)), it's not really that we have overly high thoughts about ourselves like the US has, it's that we have low thoughts about everyone else. Especially our neighbours, most of whom have been ****ing us over since before the concept of America even existed

So who will be butt hurt by Erato's comments this time?


The usual?

But it is an interesting perspective on how social tensions are taken out to the sports arena - something Americans don't really see on a national scale. Sure, we have our rivalries, but in the end we're all American (mostly, but anyone who uses that is probably just being a racist). But European countries can duke it out on the soccer field where it's socially acceptable. Or outside the field, where it's kind of OK too. ;)

PS - Hey, Erato, it's nice to see you again!

(EDIT: There is no :wave: smiley?!? This must be rectified!)
Benevolent God of Death "No one told you when to run."
Sooo ... it's cool when they do it cuz they've always done it but it's not cool when we do it cuz we're 'young'.  Got it.



@KGM: I had no idea beating people to death because they liked the wrong soccer team was acceptable anywhere.  Learn somethin' new everyday.  ;)

I guess that's my point.  You can't justify it, you can't say 'well, it's different because'.  You can't.  Not when people die.  Not when people throw bannanas at black players on the opposing team.  So what if it's more of a hatred of the other guy than pride in yourself when those are the results?
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

In my defense, I didn't actually read the article. Or, in other words, "Dude, my bad." Killing people is not OK.

I just meant that it's an interesting dynamic to see in the sporting arena - the cultural divisions and socially-acceptable forms of hatred and nationalism (not saying killing people is acceptable, but the general air of sports rivalry).

But we're all messed up, I agree. People riot when their teams win OR lose (in US, in Europe, in EVERYWHERE). It's just a matter of people getting out of control and being destructive.

I daresay it's human nature!
Benevolent God of Death "No one told you when to run."
Yep, we suck.  But we do it together!  Sorta ...

Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

I do see what you're saying and I think it's, well, silly.  Then again, it appears you do as well.   

Alas, we are likely treading toward an eventual thread lockdown since we are certainly getting too political for today's version of the Tavern (hence that awesome ghost town feel ;)) and even though I think soccer is terrible, I happen to like ADH and grehnhewe and would hate to be the cause of the obliteration of their thread.

Oh, and finally - also most importantly - welcome back!  It's really nice to see your informative walls o' text again. 
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.

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Front Door of the House of Trolls

[b]If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.[/b]

Sorry to tell you this, but it seems like you're the one projecting ;) In general, the European form of 'patriotism' (i.e. nationalism) is quite different, and usually a lot less annoying, than that exhibited by people from the US (though Europe is by no means a singular entity to the same extent as the US, so talking about anything specifically European is a lot harder), and racism doesn't even enter into it.


Speak for yourself, Poles are pretty similar in their displays of patriotism to Americans (you only have to replace "this glorious country" with "this ^%#$/stupid/barbaric country", but we still like it).
Hell, remember my Captain America comment earlier?
Well, check this:
Show


(the first issue was awful enough to discourage me from buying any more though)
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