Kings in D&D

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I am looking for rules that cover ruling a nation or similar large entity. As far as I know, no 4e book deal with this.

 There are so many 3.5 and older D&D books out there, and I am sure that some of them deal with this, especially since high level players were playing mighty rulesr. That's what I am looking for. Including large scale battles.

But it doesn't have to be D&D books - if you know of another game that deals with this, please recommend them.

So what books can you recommend?
No 4e book, no.  That sort of thing is generally beyond the purview of D&D characters, who typically stick to the 'wandering adventurer' job rather than settling down.  When they settle down, they've retired.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
There are so many 3.5 and older D&D books out there, and I am sure that some of them deal with this, especially since high level players were playing mighty rulesr. That's what I am looking for.

Here, here and here


Thank you for the links, will definetely check them out.

I want to point out that I am not necesarrily looking for a 4e-product; I was hoping that some of the older D&D books from previous versions dealt with kingdoms and ruling nations, etc. If anyone knows such a book, please let me know.


Large-scale battles are usually assumed to be going on around the PCs as they work toward specific objectives within it - the battle is a backdrop rather than THE event.

There are a few exceptions; the one that immediately comes to mind is the army-on-army encounter in the 4E Dungeon adventure, The Tyrant's Oath. The PCs actually direct that one, and it's handled somewhat abstractly via skill use to determine what happens and/or how well particular tactics work.
Large-scale battles are usually assumed to be going on around the PCs as they work toward specific objectives within it - the battle is a backdrop rather than THE event. There are a few exceptions; the one that immediately comes to mind is the army-on-army encounter in the 4E Dungeon adventure, The Tyrant's Oath. The PCs actually direct that one, and it's handled somewhat abstractly via skill use to determine what happens and/or how well particular tactics work.



I will look for that module. If anyone can recommend other modules with similar mechanics.
Doesn't have to be D&D; can be amy system dealing with ruling a large entity.

The old Birthright Campaign Setting dealt with PC's as rulers, it may have what you are looking for.  MVincents 3rd link will get you the info without having to find the old print material.
I am looking for rules that cover ruling a nation or similar large entity. As far as I know, no 4e book deal with this.

 There are so many 3.5 and older D&D books out there, and I am sure that some of them deal with this, especially since high level players were playing mighty rulesr. That's what I am looking for. Including large scale battles.

But it doesn't have to be D&D books - if you know of another game that deals with this, please recommend them.

So what books can you recommend?


The Legendary Sovereign (from Martial Power 2) does, in fact, place a PC not just as a king, but as a king of kings of sorts.  Why no rules in 4E on being rulers?  Like Salla mentioned, it's out of the game system's default scope, as adventuring would be the exception instead of the norm, and fights would rarely become comprised of little heroic strike team warbands/mercenaries, but rather that would be only a small part of the larger scale of things.

Perfect for NPCs, at the very least.

Not that being a high and mighty leader automatically reduces your life to be only aristocratic and political humdrum (that's what summarizing between adventures does), although my suggestion would be to focus less on the combat rules of 4E and embrace skill challenges, roleplaying and story.

I think wrecan or qube has some houserules on building and maintaining kingdoms, but assuming that the players build their kingdom from scratch, might I suggest the Stronghold rules from one of the Unearthed Arcana articles in Dragon Magazine to determine the baseline cost(s), not counting how much housing, public works and the like might be (I'd probably just have it left as background noise, as the PCs aren't likely to be involved in such micromanagement; offer to have officials take up those particular tasks [and then maybe have city/capital corruption as a plot hook for future adventurers (I believe having players feel that their characters -- both current and retired -- have a lasting impact in your campaign definitely helps keep players engaged)].

If your players really want to engage in politics, that's when you're really going to be in a bit of a problem, because the amount of politicking that happens would be affected by the various "players" of your campaigns.  For instance, if the PCs were in an Eberron-based campaign, and they somehow cleansed Cyric of the gray mist that plagued it for years and the players have rebuilt the capital and at least one of them established themselves as the rulers of this new country...

1.  How would the neighboring kingdoms of Aundair, Breland, Karrnath, etc. react to the heroes rebuilding Cyric?
2. Would they welcome the new king(s), or would they be fearful or resentful of a possible incursion of their newfound freedom?
3. Would they try to topple or corrupt the young kingdom(s) to their advantage?
4. Would this new development cause small-time players attempt to usurp the corporations also known as the Dragonmark Houses?

These are possible plot hooks that could be used by the king-PCs themselves, although these might better serve as plot hooks for new heroes as well, seeing how the king-PCs would possibly be tied up to the normal micromanagement involved in kingdom-building and politics.

Long story short: my suggestion is that the king PCs after level 30 be relegated to NPCs that, indirectly or directly, provide the foothold for new adventures and new heroes.  Personally because I'd rather that D&D be a game of adventuring -- where you explore dungeons and defeat dragons (or some such sort) -- and leave the Accountants and Algorithms be left to a different playstyle altogether.
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I think wrecan or qube has some houserules on building and maintaining kingdoms


It was pluisjen.  The system is called Your Kingdom Awaits.  I highly recommend it.
Hi there,

for rules on ruling your own fiefdoms, you should check out the following 3.5/Pathfinder material. Those are sufficiently generic that you could transfer them to 4e almost without any tinkering - and nicely fluffed out

Pathfinder - Kingmaker Adventure Path

Forgotten Realms - Power of Faerun

for mass combat rules, I strongly recommend looking into

Cry Havoc - it's 3.5, but also very easily translated into 4e.

Hope that helps.
Hi,
Just wanted to say thanks again, guys - I really appreciate it!

Some very good resources mentioned here - almost too many!

Again, thanks - you guys rock!