The other races and classes in the new D&D

Hi all,


So, with the playtest officially started, we can get an idea of one direction we're headed in for the "original" classes and races. The purpose of this thread is to discuss possibilities for the other, younger races and classes, which in my own opinion are just as central to the game at this stage in its life. Since we can only extrapolate so much from the playtest characters, much of this is speculation so take it with a grain of salt please.


 


The main things I’d like to see come out of the new edition for race are more than one option for characters of a particular type.  This means having more than one Strong character, smart, charismatic, or small character as an option.


 


Strong races: Half-orc, dwarf, and more recently dragonborn and goliath. The dwarf looks to be returning to his roots with Constitution, but may provide a strength option that we’ve yet to see. Of the other three races, Half-orcs could potentially make good rogues, rangers, and fighters, depending on their background. Dragonborn might fit in as sorcerers, paladins or fighters; while goliaths might find their niche as druids, rangers, and fighters. There’s plenty for each race to stand out as after their development during 4e, and they all have pretty good reason (and sizeable fanbases) to be part of the new core.


 


Tough races: Dwarf still reigns supreme as the tough race, and really I can’t think of another good one that has been introduced as non-world specific. Goliath has previously been given as tough, but they feel better placed as wise, to me anyway. Any thoughts?


 


Dexterous races: Plenty already, with elves and halflings at the top. I’ll leave this group alone for now, but if there are ideas for others, I’m all ears.


 


Smart races: Eladrin (high elves) and gnomes for me would rule as smart races. Tieflings are there as well, and while I like how they were represented in 4e, I could see them taking a backseat if only to make room for the nostalgic, other small race.


 


Wise races: Goliath, in my opinion, should be held on a pedestal as the wise race of this edition. Dwarves, if they’re not made strong, could also fall here. If races aren’t given multiple choices for stats, I would be hard pressed to find one that fits this grouping except maybe another group of elves. In another universe, Githzerai would be upgraded to core race and put here to play the part of “monk” race.


 


Charismatic races: Tieflings, gnomes, half-elves, halflings, dragonborn, high-elves. Take your pick as any of these could see themselves exist as the next D&D charismatic race of choice. While half-elves win out for nostalgia, the quirky gnome, sly halfling/tiefling, and proud dragonborn can all make a case for this. High-elves, likewise could argue for their place here, though if half-elves are included, it would be a shame to make two-thirds of the elven races charismatic, at least in my view.


 


If you’re still with me, here are my thoughts on classes. Firstly, paladin, sorcerer, druid, and ranger should all be available right out the gate. Monk would be awesome as core, but I would live if they waited for it to ensure there was enough room for everything else. There’s also the matter of races to classes. Each of the other four above have plenty of races that can be immediately called out to play them. Monk, in most of my games anyway, has always been that strange, wandering character from somewhere in the mountains/a distant land.


 


So, I think that’s everything for now. Let’s see if we can get a discussion started for when wizards gets around to these races and classes.

I think (and kind of hope) that the Next races will be much less about ability mods and more about flavor and racials. I think the racial ability mods will only be +1... enough to notice, but less than they've been before.

So I'd guess I'd rather speculate about what kind of racial abilities we'll see. I've always liked the illusion-based gnomes, so a racial tied to illusions would be neat. Ferocity work well for me with half-orcs, so a charge or rage mechanic would be cool.

Teiflings haven't ever gelled with me, but they seem to have a "you hurt me, I'll burn you" thing going. That wouldn't be too hard to incorporate.

Half-elves have always seemed like a tricky one. I would like to see them in the charismatic niche, with racial abilities related to social interactions. But other people like them as a blend of elf and human, and that's hard to argue with too.
I think (and kind of hope) that the Next races will be much less about ability mods and more about flavor and racials. I think the racial ability mods will only be +1... enough to notice, but less than they've been before.


I hope something like this is the case.  I don't want any player to feel like he's made the "wrong" choice because he wants to play a dwarf wizard.

In my 4e campaign I houseruled the races so that you could assign one of the +2 bonuses to whatever score you wanted.
Tough race: Warforged.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I don't think Dragonborn or Tieflings should be brought in via the first Player's Handbook. Dragonborn, narrative wise, take dragons, creatures that are supposed to be rare and awe-inspiringly powerful, and makes them numerous and mundane. Tieflings are fine as a race, but if I had to make a choice between putting a Tiefling or some kind of bestial race into the first PHB, I'd go with the bestial race. Tieflings, as well as other planetouched, are inheritors of a rare bloodline and, except for niche settings, they are not very numerous. I'd still love to see full out racial stats for Aasimar, Devas, Dragonborn, and Tieflings in the first Monster Manual, but they really should be optional races and not core ones. Actually, I'd love to see Warforged in the first PHB, even though they are specific to Eberron, since they fill a unique role on the racial band wagon. The whole idea of these artificial, yet conscious beings trying to find purpose in a world where their masters' reason for creating them is no more strikes a deep cord related to the human condition.
they really should be optional races and not core ones.



Just because something is in a 'core book' in no way makes it not-optional.  You can throw out anything, regardless of where it was printed.  I've chucked elves before.  Frag, I've chucked humans before.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Don't even get me started on how much I want to see Dragonborn in the first PHB. My first D&D character was a Dragonborn rogue, and I really want to be able to recreate him in 5E from day 1.

One of the big things I want to see is the Eladrin return as something different from Elves. I'd like to see them have a bigger emphasis on their fey nature. Maybe drop the arbitrary teleport power, and give them a glamour power of some kind.

At least one of the sub-races for Gnomes should be Tinker Gnomes. >_> I like me some Tinker Gnomes.


Really...the core fantasy races are going to get plenty of attention anyways. All I want is to see the other interesting/exotic races get plenty of love. Just...make them interesting and exotic, not just gimmicky.
D&D Experience Level: Relatively new First Edition: 4th Known Editions: 4th, 3.5 --- Magic Experience Level: Fairly skilled First Expansion: 7th Edition Play Style: Very Casual
I really like idea of watering down racial stat bonuses and moving some of that to a bonus from class choice, in conjunction with making races flavorful in other meaningful ways. One of the things that I felt 4e got right was giving players some choice in which stats received bonuses.
Races I'd like to see in the core rules:

Human (versatile race)
Half-Orc (strong race)
Dwarf, Hill & Mountain since there's already precedent (tough races)
Halfling, Lightfoot, Stout, and Tallfellow (dexterous races)
High Elf (smart race)
Wood Elf (wise race)
Half-Elf/Rock Gnome (charming races)

Yeah, I'm one of those guys that like subraces. Personally I hope that they deemphasize ability scores for races. Racial traits are the way to go. As for classes, I want to go through with their idea of all the classes that have been in the first PHBs throughout the editions. 
Races I'd like to see in the core rules:

Human (versatile race)
Half-Orc (strong race)
Dwarf, Hill & Mountain since there's already precedent (tough races)
Halfling, Lightfoot, Stout, and Tallfellow (dexterous races)
High Elf (smart race)
Wood Elf (wise race)
Half-Elf/Rock Gnome (charming races)

Yeah, I'm one of those guys that like subraces. Personally I hope that they deemphasize ability scores for races. Racial traits are the way to go. As for classes, I want to go through with their idea of all the classes that have been in the first PHBs throughout the editions. 



Well, if we're going to include all the classes that have been in initial PHBs, why can't we include all the races?

Not accounting for subraces, my dream team racial line up for 5E PHB 1 would be:

Human
Elf
Dwarf
Halfling (The first four being the "fantasy race holy quartet)
Half-Elf
Half-Orc
Gnome
Dragonborn
Eladrin (Separate race from the High elves, given very strong fey overtones)
Tiefling (I'm neutral on this one, but it was in 4E's PHB, so why not?)

Plus any race that was in any other initial PHB 1 that I don't have listed here because I've only ever played 3.5 and 4E.
D&D Experience Level: Relatively new First Edition: 4th Known Editions: 4th, 3.5 --- Magic Experience Level: Fairly skilled First Expansion: 7th Edition Play Style: Very Casual
they really should be optional races and not core ones.



Just because something is in a 'core book' in no way makes it not-optional.  You can throw out anything, regardless of where it was printed.  I've chucked elves before.  Frag, I've chucked humans before.


Absolutely true, everything is optional.  However, you also have to consider the tone being set.  Extreme example:  even though it would be completely optional, I still think most of would agree it would be a bad call for WotC to include in the starting lineup a race of Roswell Greys, because their appearance says to players "Mulder and Scully", not "Legolas and Gimli".

So the debate isn't really over a given race should be optional, it's whether that race strikes that right tone of heroic fantasy adventure.
I really hate the concept of core races and classes.  While the DM has the power to chuck them away, players will constantly complain, "But it's core, it belongs in D&D."  Perhaps the standard classes should get the first couple chapters.  Perhaps the "freak" races should get a separate book (I'm fine with this!)  However, I don't want to be hounded by players that want Eladrin, Dragonborn, Tieflings, Gnolls, Greys, Kandarian Demons, Skaven, Time Lords, etc... to be shoved in my campaign because they're part of the PHB.  Classes, I'm not so worried about.  I embraced the Warlord as a physical-based commander, very useful for some RP concepts!

The way I see it, the weird guys can always come in a little after the party begins, fashionably late.  However, there are tons of traditional creatures that could make cool characters too!  Full fledged orcs, goblins, kobolds, planetouched (PS tiefling/genasi/aasimor), etc...  I feel these should get some core spotlight first. 

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Personally I just want a return of the 3.x race lineup, if they include other races I'll still be happy. I'm a race junky, the more the better.


Dexterous races: Plenty already, with elves and halflings at the top. I’ll leave this group alone for now, but if there are ideas for others, I’m all ears.



Thri-kreen at launch would go a long way towards improving my current opinion of the what I've seen so far. Especially if they get back their racial +30 to jump checks :33.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.


So the debate isn't really over a given race should be optional, it's whether that race strikes that right tone of heroic fantasy adventure.



And that's going to vary a lot from person to person.  F'rex, I find Tolkien to be dull beyond words.  When I need to sleep, I skip over Unisom and go for Tolkien.  I wouldn't care less if they chucked the Tolkien races out.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I still think most of would agree it would be a bad call for WotC to include in the starting lineup a race of Roswell Greys, because their appearance says to players "Mulder and Scully", not "Legolas and Gimli".

Consider me not to be part of that "most". Mulder & Scully > Legolas & Gimili.

I find Tolkien to be dull beyond words... I wouldn't care less if they chucked the Tolkien races out.

Seconded.

If we're gonna look at it by primary ability score, then this would be my core race line-up.

Human
STR: Goliath, Minotaur
CON: Genasi, Warforged
DEX: Changeling, Thri-Kreen
INT: Roswell Greys, Tiefling
WIS: Deva, Plant Race
CHA: Dragonborn, Merfolk

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Put Shadar-kai in the PHB, and I'm sold.


To me, they are the best of the non core races, and I'd really like at least one race that hasn't been in a phb1 to be in Next's PHB1.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
As long as there is a race with a bonus to each ability and there are half elves, I am okay.

But I'd like minotaur to be in as a strong, cunning race with a gore attack. Because I want to play a minotaur wizard who kicks down the door, gores the first guy on the other side and burning hands the rest of the enemies next turn.

Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds. Constitution Based Class for Next!

I might in the margins here, but I only like the standard fantasy fair( Halfling, dwarf, and elf). Having a long list of races just stretches my world too much.
My fix has always been the same. Sure you can play a _____ but I can not guarantee you will not be lynched in the first town.


 
How about all of the racial variants, subraces and templates? I'd like to see those in the core books.  I would also like to see new templates, variants and subraces.

For example, I'd like to see the real life condition of albinism as a hereditary template/variant or condition that can affect all humanoid/demihuman races. The condition basically makes a character slightly more sensitive to sunlight and sunburn, but it isn't nearly as bad as the sensitivity to sunlight that vampires and other monsters have.
An albino has fair to white skin, fair to white hair, and light colored eyes. The albino individual can have normal to poor vision, but the eyes are more sensitive to bright light and sunlight than that of a normal person...possibly resulting in mild to moderate discomfort or pain if exposed to such light. Also, the albino individual tends to have other kinds of vision problems, and increased susceptibility to sunburn and skin cancer.

Ideas for albinism in game mechanics: Albino individuals of many races are more adaptable to areas with low levels of light and sunlight, such as caves. Their vision problems may give them various penalties on skills and feats that require vision, such as spot checks, but they could also have the blindsight ability to compensate.  Since animals in deep underground caves do not need pigment, albinism tends to be more common in the Underdark.
Albino individuals may be of any alignment. The intelligence and wisdom scores of albino individuals are unaffected by their albinism, but the constitution scores can be adversely affected because the sensitivity to sunlight usually results in increased susceptibility to sunburn and skin cancer. If the albino individual has moderate to severe vision problems, they can be effectively blinded depending on how bright the light in their environment is, possibly giving them penalties on dexterity and strength skill checks.
The charisma score can have bonuses or penalties depending on the cultural view the individual's race has on albinism. 
they really should be optional races and not core ones.



Just because something is in a 'core book' in no way makes it not-optional.  You can throw out anything, regardless of where it was printed.  I've chucked elves before.  Frag, I've chucked humans before.


Absolutely true, everything is optional.  However, you also have to consider the tone being set.  Extreme example:  even though it would be completely optional, I still think most of would agree it would be a bad call for WotC to include in the starting lineup a race of Roswell Greys, because their appearance says to players "Mulder and Scully", not "Legolas and Gimli".

So the debate isn't really over a given race should be optional, it's whether that race strikes that right tone of heroic fantasy adventure.


"The right tone" by whose standards?  One person's "right tone" involves dragonborn and tieflings while another's "right tone" doesn't.  Whose standard do we pick?  And more importantly, what if the standard that's chosen excludes something You really think should be there?  Isn't it enough to present all the PHB races, of all editions, and include a section about racial limitations imposed by settings and the DM's right to exclude races if she wishes to?

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.


My fix has always been the same. Sure you can play a _____ but I can not guarantee you will not be lynched in the first town.


 


May I just interject that this is one of my least favorite narrative tropes. 
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When Zuko saves the Earth Kingdom village from the jerk soldiers, but then they found out he's a firebender and are like "Hey, we just met you, and this is crazy, but you're a firebender and we're apparently ignorant simpletons so we're going to disregard all of your previous actions and judge you based solely on that, now get the **** out of the village you just saved we hate you."

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
At the very least I hope they did with the 4e MM, include pc templates at the back the book for monsterous races. My favorite d&d character of all time was a chaos sorcerer goblin pirate. Of course this is coming from a dm who forbids his players from choosing humans as a race. Im a horrible vanilla race hating monster.

I might in the margins here, but I only like the standard fantasy fair( Halfling, dwarf, and elf). Having a long list of races just stretches my world too much.
My fix has always been the same. Sure you can play a _____ but I can not guarantee you will not be lynched in the first town.


 



Again ... just because something is in a book, even the first Player's Handbook, IN NO WAY obligates you to use it.  However, they need to provide these things for those of us who do not have a problem with it.  You can decide to use what you want, we decide to use what we want, everybody wins.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Rethinking my position, I don't like the concept of core races anymore.  I don't want to see freak/whatever races shoehorned into other settings again besides a blurb on the side on how these characters might fit and leave it at that.  (This would be a GREAT use of the magazines/DDI)  Quite a few of my games have resulted in battles with players over strange and somewhat alien races that don't belong.  Perhaps I have a problem with crazy new races showing up.  Though, I'm fine with them as long as they're not pushed on everyone or put into the main core aspects.  Perhaps, these concepts belong in a "Fantastic New Heroes" module for people that want those concepts.

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
Don't see this much but I still wanna play a redeemer Drow, I thought one of best aspects of 4e was to allow certain races to be played. 

I enjoy the shifter and the changeling as well

Don't really like Dragonborn, maybe let them stay on Dark Sun.  
Quite a few of my games have resulted in battles with players over strange and somewhat alien races that don't belong.

At the risk of starting a horrible debate, I'm going to ask it anyway:
Why was there any battle? Why didn't you just let them play what they want? If the player wanted to play under your idea of what's fine to be a player race, then they would have done so. But, as the DM, it's part of your responsibility to make sure that the players have fun, so did you make any attempt at all to figure out a way to make the player's desires work? Because I must say that I've never had any trouble fitting something unexpected into any game that I've ever run, and 100% of the time that I have heard that cliche old "it just doesn't fit in my setting", the resoning used to back it up has been pretty horrible.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Quite a few of my games have resulted in battles with players over strange and somewhat alien races that don't belong.  Perhaps I have a problem with crazy new races showing up.  Though, I'm fine with them as long as they're not pushed on everyone or put into the main core aspects.  Perhaps, these concepts belong in a "Fantastic New Heroes" module for people that want those concepts.


As long as the player knows the DM has the right to say no to races, there's no good reason to leave them out of the PHB.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Everyone has a different approach to gaming.  Most of my games tend to be dark and/or low fantasy.  Occasionally, I break into something higher fantasy like The Realms or Eberron.  Most of the "battles" were as to why I didn't feel these races worked in my game.  Of course, after a little back and forth talk on what could work for this world, we come to a compromise, so the setting keeps its central atmosphere and they get to play something they're comfortable with.  If anything, we're working together to help build up the world a bit more.  Perhaps my wording is bad (and it often is.  A bad trait for having on the internet.)

Also, I'm fine with a whole list of races to be available, as long as it mentions that these may not appear in every game or setting.  So... the more options, the better!

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
The whole idea of CORE races is what the majority feels as the races that will rarely (if ever) be taken out of the game.

This usually includes the following: Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling.

those four are taken as the normal fantasy group of races, they have been an integral part of the D&D game since its inception...

Gnome, high-elf/Eladrin, Drow, half-elf, half-orc are secondary and less-likely to be cut but could very-well be left-out of the PHB1 under certain circumstances.

Tiefling, Dragonborn, Goliath, Mul, Thri-kreen, Shifter, etc... are not uniquely core... they have not graduated to mainstream of the fantasy genre

Just try and think of the last non-setting-specific novel you read about a Mul fighter reclaiming his lost homeland, or the shifter necromancer with the heart of gold, nobly fighting for a cause greater than himself, even a beleaguered Drow ranger trying to find home in a world not his own... nope couldn't think of one either...

weather you enjoy playing the race is irrelevant to the fact that a core race and a non-core race are two very different things...

I think instead of waring over the inclusion/subtraction of these races in the PHB we affix our gaze onto the fact that there were 2 styles of Dwarf, and Elf in the playtest. The Hill dwarf and the Mountain dwarf, High-elf and wood-elf (most likely)

What cultural/environmental variances would you like to see to the CORE RACES (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling)?
What cultural/environmental variances would you like to see to the CORE RACES (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling)?

If I had my way? None. A race is a race, not a culture or an environment. A Dwarf of culture X or environment Y would have a racial stat block identical to a Dwarf of culture A or environment B.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
"The right tone" by whose standards?  One person's "right tone" involves dragonborn and tieflings while another's "right tone" doesn't.  Whose standard do we pick?


Yes.  That is the trouble.

And more importantly, what if the standard that's chosen excludes something You really think should be there?  Isn't it enough to present all the PHB races, of all editions, and include a section about racial limitations imposed by settings and the DM's right to exclude races if she wishes to?


Would you still be of this opinion if the 2E PHB had included Greys for some reason?  Because I know I would say, "That was a tone-setting mistake, and WotC ought not to repeat it".

I'm not saying that dragonborn and tieflings are a tone-setting mistake.  Personally, I'm fine with them.  (Less so with warforged, shardminds, and githzerai, but those have never been PHB races.)  But the issue has been raised by others, so I'm trying to articulate it as clearly as I can.  We should at least have a conversation about the possibility that going beyond the traditional fantasy races was a tone-setting mistake.
What cultural/environmental variances would you like to see to the CORE RACES (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling)?

If I had my way? None. A race is a race, not a culture or an environment. A Dwarf of culture X or environment Y would have a racial stat block identical to a Dwarf of culture A or environment B.



I've made the races I've dabbled with very complex with all sorts of cultures, like with humans.  The "humans are complex, alien races are the same culture" is a trope I loathe with a passion.  It's an overused sci-fi/fantasy plot convention that I ignore.  Plus, I like writing fluff for world and culture.  I've had a variety of dwarf nations that weren't obvious Scottsmen stereotypes and Halflings that weren't shady thieves or Hobbits of Middle-Earth.

Also, instead of the Unearthed Arcana approach with specific statblocks like Desert Elf or Arctic Dwarf, why not backgrounds or themes to fill in those blanks?

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
I always wanted to play a Minotaur after I read Kaz the Minotaur..

I never really liked halflings... They seem silly to me... I thought the point of hobbits were they are homebodies, and Biblo, Frodo and the rest were exceptions to the rule... They were supposed to be so rareoutside the shire that many other creatures didn't even know what they were.... Yet in D&D they are everywhere...

If halflings can become 'core', even though that makes no sense if they are basically hobbits with a new (non trademarked) name, then I don't see why dragonborn or whatever the heck else be?
Actually, you know what the warforged might be really good for?  An example in the DMG of how to build a new race and work it into the world to create a different tone.  Kills a lot of birds with a single stone:  gets a popular race out there immediately, teaches DMs the basics of homebrewery, and lets them see that the system is flexible and they can take a particular campaign setting far from the default heroic-medieval-fantasy assumptions.  But it doesn't say to players in the first chapter of the PHB, "This is a magepunk-style game."
> Just try and think of the last non-setting-specific novel you read about...
>
> ...a Mul
> ...the shifter
> ...a Drow

Eliminating all of the stuff that's irrelevant to the races so named, one of these is explicitly setting-specific, the second appears in multiple D&D settings (but is otherwise specific to D&D), and the third is a watered-down version of a common fantasy concept (werewolves).

Since the last one, at least, is a common fantasy concept, and various heroic/protagonist/nonvillain versions thereof are far from unique at this point - I wouldn't be surprised if werewolves (or variations thereof) are more common than halflings in the fantasy genre by now - they clearly ought to be a core race and the nichey setting-specific halflings thrown out of the core lineup.

Right?
I wouldn't be surprised if werewolves (or variations thereof) are more common than halflings in the fantasy genre by now - they clearly ought to be a core race and the nichey setting-specific halflings thrown out of the core lineup. Right?




Werewolves are more common by-far in fantasy right now, True.

everyone knows what a Werewolf is, but only a few would understand the term "Halfling" "Hobbit" or the even more seldom used "Hin", so why not allow, in the Core PHB, the Werewolf race? and while we're at it why not the Vampire, Mummy, or Zombie (for sure everyone knows what they are) but then which zombie/Werewolf/Vamp are we talking about?... See what I'm getting at?

because in the Dungeons and Dragons Core (what feels the most like D&D) includes Halflings playable race, and the werewolf as a not-so-playable race (actually not a race at all but more a curse or disease etc) but used to  make the world more dangerous/fantastical/wondrous/etc...

Keep the core small but Subtract/house-rule/add till you're happy!
Please, save the Universal Monster & other horror cliches troop for a specific module or expansion.  I'd prefer werewolves, vampires, mummies, and zombies being themes if need be.

Crazed undead horror posing as a noble and heroic forum poster!

 

 

Some good pointers for the fellow hobbyist!:

  • KEEP D&D ALIVE, END EDITION WARS!
  • RESPECT PEOPLES' PREFERENCES
  • JUST ENJOY THE GAME!
> because in the Dungeons and Dragons Core (what feels the most like D&D)
> includes Halflings playable race,

Sure, but part of your justification for them being so was...

> those four are taken as the normal fantasy group of races,

Halflings/hobbits no longer fall within that grouping - in fact, they're rather setting-specific (Middle Earth, D&D worlds, and clones thereof). Thus, by that qualification, they ought to get the chop from the core lineup (regardless of whether or not anything else takes their place).

OTOH, if being part of normal fantasy is a qualifier, then there are several other races that ought to be in the core lineup - more so than halflings, at least.

Elves and dwarves aren't in any danger of getting the chop based on fantasy commonality, though.

I might in the margins here, but I only like the standard fantasy fair( Halfling, dwarf, and elf). Having a long list of races just stretches my world too much.
My fix has always been the same. Sure you can play a _____ but I can not guarantee you will not be lynched in the first town.


 



wow.

That's....special.



My fix has always been the same. Sure you can play a _____ but I can not guarantee you will not be lynched in the first town.


 


May I just interject that this is one of my least favorite narrative tropes. 
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When Zuko saves the Earth Kingdom village from the jerk soldiers, but then they found out he's a firebender and are like "Hey, we just met you, and this is crazy, but you're a firebender and we're apparently ignorant simpletons so we're going to disregard all of your previous actions and judge you based solely on that, now get the **** out of the village you just saved we hate you."



yeah.

One villager. "Oh my god it's a lizard person! It must be a monster!"

Second villager "Audhumla's shining teet! That one's got horns! It must be a demon! E'erbody run away!"

Village Merchant, "Guys, seriously? We went over this last week. That's a dragonborn and a Tiefling. You know, Ted the tinker, that comes to town every spring, and his bodyguard Jethro?"

First villager, "I ain't trading with no demon folk!"

Village Merchant, "Dammit Tom. Really? You bought a silver ring from his last spring. For you wife."

Tom, "Oh...right. Ahem. Welcome gents! My wife..um...sent me with a list of things she'd like..."



But mostly, if I tried to pull a PC trap like that, my players would look at me with absolutely no patience, and tell me to either ban or allow the race, and not play stupid games. And I'd do the same as a player. And I/they would be right to do just that.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome
What cultural/environmental variances would you like to see to the CORE RACES (Human, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling)?

If I had my way? None. A race is a race, not a culture or an environment. A Dwarf of culture X or environment Y would have a racial stat block identical to a Dwarf of culture A or environment B.




Enviromental differences should exist for some races, IMO.

Not every race should be like humans, with only very superficial differences between a desert dweller and an arctic dweller. Enviromental changes cause adaptations, IRL. Even humans pick up traits that they aren't going to lose just because they leave their homes, that could be represented mechanically.
Skeptical_Clown wrote:
More sex and gender equality and racial equality shouldn't even be an argument--it should simply be an assumption for any RPG that wants to stay relevant in the 21st century.
104340961 wrote:
Pine trees didn't unanimously decide one day that leaves were gauche.
http://community.wizards.com/doctorbadwolf/blog/2012/01/10/how_we_can_help_make_dndnext_awesome