[M13-ICD] Vampire Nocturnus

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I, um, what?  Really?  I was not expecting that.  I wonder how this will affect its overly high price.
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That outta lower the price of this guy significantly. Unless of course Vampires becomes a tier 1 standard deck, then.....
Hoo boy. As fond as I am of Nocturnus, being a fan of the vamps and all, I'm kinda surprised to see him back.  
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147048523 wrote:
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it." Repeat. Obstinance?
56790678 wrote:
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.
56902498 wrote:
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up! We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and.... One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to Go!
57062508 wrote:
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
56760448 wrote:
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison... MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development. TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment. You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
90571711 wrote:
Adding options at the system level is good. Adding options at the table level is hard. Removing options at the system level is bad. Removing options at the table level is easy. This is not complicated.
57333888 wrote:
112760109 wrote:
56902838 wrote:
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :| I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
158710691 wrote:
D&D definitely improves mental health; Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)
He's Baaaaack
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Was definitely not expecting this. I'm not complaining though :D
Almost mono-black vampires in Standard.
Sad. I'll miss Captivating Vampire. I don't like lords being Mythic.
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Awwwwwesome.
oh yes!
welcome back, old friend
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AWESOME
Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.
I'll admit, this is a nice card to see back.
Ah, back again.

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I nearly fell out of my chair I was so happy to see this. Picking up my playset of Stromkirk Noble ASAP (yes I love to play bad decks!)
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I'm going to say booooooo! I'm tired of vamps...
Okay, we get it, you're good, now go play in traffic or something!
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Are you making a casual mill deck? Please read.
Control is the key of a mill deck. You should free up your mana as much as possible so that you can respond to whatever your opponent is doing. Having some way to remove threats, both real and percieved, is necessary to survival. Real threats are those that are already on the field, and are something a simple unsummon or doom blade can remove. Percieved threats are those that aren't on the field, something a simple duress or counterspell can deal with. Controlling the board will allow your mill deck to continuously perform, if you use permanent style mill, that is. One-Shot Mill spells are something you should avoid. You can toss tome scours at your opponent until your hand runs out, but that isn't going to be enough to mill them to death. With 1-shot mill spells, like tome scour, you have to treat them like burn spells. Therefore, the only "good" 1-shot mill spells are sanity grinding (in the right deck) and mind funeral. Try to find more permanent styles of milling, like memory erosion, hedron crab, and curse of the bloody tome, so that you don't have to waste your mana each turn doing something that those permanents can do with a single mana/turn investment. Keeping your mana open allows you to respond with control elements. ​Traumatize Rant​. Traumatize is a terrible card for a multitude of reasons. First, it costs 5 to cast, which is a large investment for a mill deck. Milling half a library sounds neat, but if you do the math, it really isn't that much. An average 60 card deck starts with drawing 7 cards. Then, barring any draw spells on their end, or ramp on yours, 5 turns will go by, where they draw 5 more cards, leaving 48 in the deck. Unless they had a deck with more than 60 cards, or you ramped it out, the most you'll ever mill with a single Traumatize on turn 5 is 24 cards. That's not too shabby, but hang on, there's more! If they drew any additional cards or if they were milled before turn 5, that number will be much lower. In addition, any more Traumatize's you draw will only mill less and less as the game goes on...which is the point of a mill deck. My whole point on Traumatize is the it is NOT worth the 5 mana investment, not even with haunting echoes. You can mill more than 24 before turn 5...which you can then cast the echoes. If you look at a mill deck like a burn deck, you'll notice that it takes longer to win with mill than with burn. For example, lightning bolt costs 1 and does 3 out of the 20 damage needed to win (barring any lifegain or damage prevention). For mill, that same investment of 1 would have to mill 9 cards out of an average 60 card deck to be the equivilent of lightning bolt. The problem is that there is no mill card that can do that...except hedron crab, over a period of time. The initial investment of 1 will pay off in 3 more land drops to make the crab equal to a bolt. However, the crab nets you more mill beyond those 3 land drops, making it better as the game draws on. Other cards, like curse of the bloody tome, are excellent ways of milling an opponent because the initial investment of is all you have to pay in order to put your opponent on a clock. All you have to do is stay alive, which is the true goal of a mill strategy. There are other ideas for mill decks that are specific to certain types of strategies. Combo mill decks can mill an entire player's library out from under them. Secondary mill strategies are usually tied to another strategy, like drowner of secrets in a merfolk deck, or halimar excavator in an ally deck. Milling can be done in certain decks that are able to ramp out enough mana to make use of the higher costing mill spells, like using 16 post to pay for X on sands of delirium or for ambassador laquatus. Multiplayer mill decks are even tougher to build, but can be done. Being a slower environment, it is easier to ramp in multiplayer, allowing for big X spells, like mind grind, to be useful. Consuming aberration is another star player. The more straightforward strategy is to use mesmeric orb and dreamborn muse while being the only deck at the table that can deal with it. There are always new strategies coming out with each set, so check gatherer for any new mill cards that you find to be the most fun for you! Now you can say that you haven't fallen into the trap that most new players fall into when they build their first mill deck!
Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.


no no no. zendikar vamps were vastly more powerful than innistrad vamps. now they have no lacerator, no kalastria highborn, not even lightning bolt on the splash.
Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.


no no no. zendikar vamps were vastly more powerful than innistrad vamps. now they have no lacerator, no kalastria highborn, not even lightning bolt on the splash.


No Lacerator, this is true, but face it, that's a mediocre 2/2 for 1 with a significant drawback. Losing a 1-drop for far more powerful cards ofverall won't hurt. Instead of Kalastria Highborn, they have Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist both, neither of which needs keeping mana open. They have Pillar of Flame on the splash instead of Bolt, which is a good thing, plus they get another lord and some nice beaters to boot. I'd say Vamps have gotten better since Zendikar.
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If only Extended had survived with it.
Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.


no no no. zendikar vamps were vastly more powerful than innistrad vamps. now they have no lacerator, no kalastria highborn, not even lightning bolt on the splash.


No Lacerator, this is true, but face it, that's a mediocre 2/2 for 1 with a significant drawback. Losing a 1-drop for far more powerful cards ofverall won't hurt. Instead of Kalastria Highborn, they have Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist both, neither of which needs keeping mana open. They have Pillar of Flame on the splash instead of Bolt, which is a good thing, plus they get another lord and some nice beaters to boot. I'd say Vamps have gotten better since Zendikar.



Normally I would agree with this, but.....well.....Vampire Nighthawk
"I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God."
Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.


no no no. zendikar vamps were vastly more powerful than innistrad vamps. now they have no lacerator, no kalastria highborn, not even lightning bolt on the splash.


No Lacerator, this is true, but face it, that's a mediocre 2/2 for 1 with a significant drawback. Losing a 1-drop for far more powerful cards ofverall won't hurt. Instead of Kalastria Highborn, they have Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist both, neither of which needs keeping mana open. They have Pillar of Flame on the splash instead of Bolt, which is a good thing, plus they get another lord and some nice beaters to boot. I'd say Vamps have gotten better since Zendikar.



Normally I would agree with this, but.....well.....Vampire Nighthawk



Point. I do find it amusing that TEA_DEMON neglected to mention what is unquestionably the best Zendikar-block vampire. I still think that overall, vampires are better now, but Nighthawk was such a fantastic card. (I can has core set reprint?)
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Not nerely as good in a format without fetches, but vampires as a whole have gotten a lot better since two years ago, so we'll have to see.


no no no. zendikar vamps were vastly more powerful than innistrad vamps. now they have no lacerator, no kalastria highborn, not even lightning bolt on the splash.


No Lacerator, this is true, but face it, that's a mediocre 2/2 for 1 with a significant drawback. Losing a 1-drop for far more powerful cards ofverall won't hurt. Instead of Kalastria Highborn, they have Falkenrath Noble and Blood Artist both, neither of which needs keeping mana open. They have Pillar of Flame on the splash instead of Bolt, which is a good thing, plus they get another lord and some nice beaters to boot. I'd say Vamps have gotten better since Zendikar.



Normally I would agree with this, but.....well.....Vampire Nighthawk



Point. I do find it amusing that TEA_DEMON neglected to mention what is unquestionably the best Zendikar-block vampire. I still think that overall, vampires are better now, but Nighthawk was such a fantastic card. (I can has core set reprint?)



Maybe @ rare
Really? This is back not enough to make vamps a relevant tribe in standard...yet though.

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Let's not forget Bloodghast and Gatekeeper of Malakir. The current vampires have nothing on the Zendikar ones.
Guess I ain't be playing standard for a while.
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ftfy

Also, Zendikar vampires were miles ahead.

Yxoque wrote:
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Almost mono-black vampires in Standard.


Stromkirk Noble will be needed as well at minimum in the board
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Almost mono-black vampires in Standard.


Stromkirk Noble will be needed as well at minimum in the board



Stromkirk Noble should never be in a sideboard. Maindeck or not at all.


Nocturnus creates an interesting dynamic now; the best Vampire in the format is Stromkirk Noble, and he wants you to be running heavy red, not heavy black for this. 
What about Olivia?

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56287226 wrote:
190106923 wrote:
Not bad. But what happens flavor wise when one kamahl kills the other one?
Zis iz a sign uf deep psychological troma, buried in zer subconscious mind. By keelink himzelf, Kamahl iz physically expressink hiz feelinks uf self-disgust ova hiz desire for hiz muzzer. [/GermanPsychologistVoice]
56957928 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
That makes no sense to me. If they spelled the ability out on the card in full then it would not be allowed in a mono-black Commander deck, but because they used a keyword to save space it is allowed? ~ Tim
Yup, just like you can have Birds of paradise in a mono green deck but not Noble Hierarch. YAY COLOR IDENTITY
56287226 wrote:
56888618 wrote:
Is algebra really that difficult?
Survey says yes.
56883218 wrote:
57799958 wrote:
You want to make a milky drink. You squeeze a cow.
I love this description. Like the cows are sponges filled with milk. I can see it all Nick Parks claymation-style with the cow's eyes bugging out momentarily as a giant farmer squeezes it like a squeaky dog toy, and milk shoots out of it.
56287226 wrote:
56735468 wrote:
And no judge will ever give you a game loss for playing snow covered lands.
I now have a new goal in life. ;)
Goddamnit I hate this card.
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Vampires will be quite interesting now. Blood artist that is able to attack and not just sit there? I still think there will be a B/R with this card, stromkirk noble, Stromkirk Captain, Olivia (still really good), and possibly Falkenrath Aristocrat with the other vamps that will undoubtably be brought back with Nocturnus...
Use gravepurge to put a bunch dead black vampires on top of your library so you make sure he's turned on
It would need some really good vamps to be reprinted in M13 for it to make any sort of real impact.

We do have some good vamps right now. Stromkirk Noble, Blood Artist, Olivia Voldaren, and Falkenrath Aristocrat.

Rakish Heir, Falkenrath Noble, and Stromkirk Captain are all marginally playable at best.

Still not seeing it happening unless they reprint something like Gatekeeper of Malakir though, which I really do not see happening.
"I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God."
With the allusion to shock-lands with RTR or even core set, I do think he would be able to be played alongside stromkirk noble. And i could possibly see gatekeeper of malakir as a way to get around hexproof.
Gatekeeper uses Kicker.

Not in M13.