Anyone tried spellcasting as a HP cost rather than slots per day?

We were toying with the idea of using a Star Wars RPG-type casting cost setup for spellcasters, treating casting as a fatiguing process (spend HP to cast, equal to level of spell) rather than limiting by spells slots. One of their definitions of HP was level of energy, so seemed possible. Maybe you get the nose bleeds (like Firestarter) once you dip below 1/2 max HP.

Just curious if anyone tried something like that yet with D&D Next and how it played out. I see how it could be too harsh and too overpowered.


So you want the class with the least HPs to be completely dependent on them?
Yes, we tried in my group. Was not a good idea. No one ever died by blaster shots, but our jedi counselor almost died in a force duel...
We were toying with the idea of using a Star Wars RPG-type casting cost setup for spellcasters, treating casting as a fatiguing process (spend HP to cast, equal to level of spell) rather than limiting by spells slots. One of their definitions of HP was level of energy, so seemed possible. Maybe you get the nose bleeds (like Firestarter) once you dip below 1/2 max HP.

Just curious if anyone tried something like that yet with D&D Next and how it played out. I see how it could be too harsh and too overpowered.



Love the idea, just need to work out how to make it work. Maybe give the wizard more hp?
I love the idea .........thematically.

Maybe make a constitution based check (depending on level of spell is complexity of check) pass no HP loss. Fail 2x spell level in damage.



Nope leave original HP of wizards as they stand. This keeps them from spammng spells all day.
Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please
my problem with this idea is that the level 1 wizard would have WAY more than 3 casts of level 1 magic, and increasing the cost will only make it more likely he will die very early.
I never tried that in D&D, of any edition, but I despise that kind of system: Casting From Hit Points.

I started with Advanced Fighting Fantasy, and it had a cast from hit points system. I wanted to play a wizard, but someone already was one, so I played a cleric. The cleric also cast from hit points ... healing spells. I had to spend the hit points after the spell was cast, but it meant as long as a I had a few, I could spam casting. (This is not my main objection to the idea.)
I've always like the channeler theme, but it makes controlling healing even more important and complaints about things like herbalism will only be multiplied.
We were toying with the idea of using a Star Wars RPG-type casting cost setup for spellcasters, treating casting as a fatiguing process (spend HP to cast, equal to level of spell) rather than limiting by spells slots. One of their definitions of HP was level of energy, so seemed possible. Maybe you get the nose bleeds (like Firestarter) once you dip below 1/2 max HP.

Just curious if anyone tried something like that yet with D&D Next and how it played out. I see how it could be too harsh and too overpowered.





It could be an interesting mechanic although I don't see a need for it to be THE mechanic for spellcasting. I could easily see a variety of spell casting systems including the DDN wizard and cleric style casting, such as maybe an at-will/encounter/daily system for warlocks, a point based system for psionics, and this hit point based system for another class. (Just giving examples, doesn't have to be in that specific order or those particular classes.) That way players who want to play a caster can find a class with a play mechanic they like.
I could maybe see a neat option for casting from hit points (at great cost) AFTER Vancian slots have been used up. A sort of pushing the limits, last stand type of casting.
I could maybe see a neat option for casting from hit points (at great cost) AFTER Vancian slots have been used up. A sort of pushing the limits, last stand type of casting.

this reminds me of bright wizards in warhammer online.


as you casted you got a buff that did 2 things, increase your damage, and increase the chance of spell failure (which hurt you)

i actually wouldn't mind seeing the sorcerer operate on this mechanic, each consecutive cast after daily spells gives him a + to damage roll and a +% die to backfire for half damage. each minor cast reduces that by the same amount.

say he has casted burning hands 4 times (assuming they get more spells / day) the 5th will give him +2 damage +20% backfire, then he casts ray of frost, back to 0/0. cast burning hands 3 more times and on the +6 / +60% he backfires and takes half his damage roll (WITH the +6 counted in).

i like the idea of power maddened sorcs instagibbing themselves because they felt lucky
Personally, I always thought the idea of using vitality as "mana" for Force powers was a horribly-conceived idea.  It never made sense, even with the separation of wounds and vitality that a Jedi would get worse and worse off just by using the Force.  Eventually, we just stopped making Force users completely because the system was so poor.

We preferred the Saga Edition, where Force powers were somewhat Vancian in nature, but much more easily replenished (and you could have multiples of the same power to use).  It just worked better for us.

So, I guess I could see an HP cost for spells, but you'd need to give every spell caster class the same hit die, and it'd probably need to be a d10 or d12.  Then, the rogue would whine because he's got less hit points than everyone.

Honestly, what I'd rather see is a way of "overcasting" spells when you run out of spell slots.  My friend already does this in his campaign world.  When you run out of slots for the day, you can continue to cast spells, but you have to pass a check that gets progressively harder the more you cast.  He limits this to divine casters, but I'd like to see it expanded to arcane as well.
I always related the scientific ideas behind hemoglobin in the bloodstream as what was depleted by spellcasting. Someone whom is deficient in such would have a frail stature and not recover from wounding well (sounds a bit like a wizard?). Plus the resource replenishes itself in the body rather easily and quickly, which could reason why the limit in spells cast per day and the idea that the bodies fatigue after losing the hemoglobin would result in mental fatigue as well (e.g. "forgettting" the spell after casting it) and the need for an extended rest by a wizard who may have cast all his spells but never received a lick of damage (he may still be feeling the "stress of the day", Otis ref...lol)

As far as actually damaging yourself to cast magic though, it seems somehow innnapropriate for a fantasy character. i cant see how a spell like enchant an item could actually cause physical harm, i suppose you could contive something though it is a fantasy game after all...
I could see a lot of invocation magic doing it though, like the fire from a burning hands scorching the caster as it leaves their fingertips, or ice rays freezing the casters hands. Clerics could heal **** the game to death (or life) though so you'd end up having to have 2 different spellcast systems which essentially evades ease of play for newcomers..

The best Forgotten Realms fiction you aren't reading: http://realmslore.blogspot.com/2014/01/welcome.html

I've been tossing around the idea of letting casters use a hit die to recharge a spell slot at 1 hd/level in lieu of regaining hp during a short rest.

It's exchanging one resource for another, it balances itself.

For clerics using it to regain a heal spell there's an increase in healing with the wisdom modifier, but it's not a huge issue in my opinion.
If you're reading this there's a good chance you should be wearing a helmet, consequently I really can't bring myself to care about your opinion.
would that have to be per spell level? I kinda like that idea, maybe even as a background option?

The best Forgotten Realms fiction you aren't reading: http://realmslore.blogspot.com/2014/01/welcome.html

That would be the idea, yeah

Level 1 spell - 1 hd, level 2 spell - 2 hd, 2 level 1 spells - 2 hd, etc.

Assuming the wizard doesn't need the hp, it should help extend the working day. Ultimately a cleric would be giving his hd to other pcs with his wisdom mod as a bonus.

Assuming hd remain 1 per character level it should stay reasonable, even if there are "gain an extra hd" feats in the future it shouldn't get out of hand.
If you're reading this there's a good chance you should be wearing a helmet, consequently I really can't bring myself to care about your opinion.
Assuming hd remain 1 per character level it should stay reasonable, even if there are "gain an extra hd" feats in the future it shouldn't get out of hand.



sounds liek a great way to finally make toughness usefull.
absolutely, and an easy way for them to make paladins lay on hands ability. I think you actually just came up with it dude.

The best Forgotten Realms fiction you aren't reading: http://realmslore.blogspot.com/2014/01/welcome.html

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