Playtest and Feedback from the 'Unfortunate Dragons'

We ran through part of the Cave's of Chaos adventure last night, and most of the feedback from the players. The classes felt right, the combat was smooth the skills worked very well. Being veterans of both 4e and 3.5e we enjoyed the way that it all came together.

I'll say that again, extremely happy with the way the game ran, it really felt like true D&D to us.

However, we had a few concerns amongst us.

Flanking: We quickly house ruled this, giving anyone who was flanking Advantage.

Opportunity Attacks: As has been mentioned elsewhere, we found that this allowed everyone too much freedom. Goblins were bypassing the fighter to take a shot at the wizard, and people ran about, smiting whatever they liked with impunity.

Advantage/Disadvantage: A nice simple system, very well implemented, and it worked really well. Having advantage is a fair bonus over the old Combat Advantage, and people liked that. 
The concern was that it was not scalable. How do you differentiate between a minor advantage and a major one? Despite this, we were pleased

Skills: The problem we had with this was the lack of scalability seen, once again, and I know this is probably going to be dealt with with Character creation rules, but I'll say it anyway. Is the +3 bonus all you can ever get for a skill, ie. Is there any difference between a master armourer and an apprentice? Both in my books are trained, but one way more than the other. 
The same with being able to pick up more skills, surely the rogue can eventually train in more than just the three he is given.
Still not sure if the bonus to skills should be more ability modifier than skill modifier - in real life is five years practice better than natural talent?
With the rogues feature though, this would have to be careful minimum of ten on ten trained skills - seems like the kind of thing a bard would do as well, actually.

Vancian Casting: Very happy with this the way it is, it makes more sense by how a wizard works in the fluff. Most of the party seemed to think the same. 

Defences: Will Touch and Flat Footed be back? Not sure what I think of the lack of them, both a good thing and a bad. Very happy with each of the ability scores giving a defence, or a saving throw.

Healing Surges (Hit Dice): Most of the party was very happy with how these work - it was a nice way of bringing a good feature from 4e and making it work with the system. Only one person expressed distaste at how little they healed. But he always was the one to play the Warlord, built around charging into combat and healing himself when he dropped to low health.

Fighter: Looking forward to more options with the Fighter, but our player enjoyed it immensely anyway, immediately he took to kicking sand in peoples eyes, aiming shots at particular body parts and generally lopping the limbs off anything he could find.

Armour: We've always had a problem with those wearing leather getting just as much AC as someone wearing full plate... But this has happened in every edition I have played so far. DR or something of the sort could fix this, but enough other people have mentioned it already.
Would like to see some differentiation within categories. Why would a rogue choose leather over a chain shirt - when he most certainly should. 
And I don't think Medium armour will be used by anyone at all - but I guess we'll see what happens there - I guess that comes down to the fact you are a low Dex Character who doesn't have training in Heavy Armour.

Backgrounds/Themes: Very happy with these, hope they keep giving bonuses at even higher levels (Maybe themes more than backgrounds). Intrigued as to whether races will keep adding things as you level up.

I think thats about it, thanks :D 
Nice ideas.  I agree with most of them.  Our experiences were similar.  I kind of liked not having AoO though.  My players and my creatures didn't take advantage, they just had fun moving around more.  In the tunnels of some of the caves, it didn't matter much because there were so many choke points and bottlenecks.  In wide open spaces, it may be more of an issue.

In response to your worry about Skills and Scaling, I don't think it will be such a problem.  DCs are static.  If it is hard to climb up a slick wall, it will always be hard.  The DC will remain constant.   If a DM is really worried, and he wants the players to feel like they are much better, the DM can just decide if a PC is 10th level (especially a rogue or ranger), maybe the hard climb is more of a moderate climb because the PC has had more experience.   Also, I think there will be a way to add to the skills, just not as much as 3e or 4e.  +6 or so on a skill will be mastery.  (This is just speculation from transcripts/interviews I've read in the past...maybe it will change).

Cheers.  Happy playtesting. 

A Brave Knight of WTF - "Wielder of the Sword of Balance"

 

Rhenny's Blog:  http://community.wizards.com/user/1497701/blog

 

 

Glad to see you enjoyed as we did.

I thought about flanking causing advantage and quickly thought again as I feel its too powerfull to give on flanking. Especially without AoO rules.

Im not sure how i fell about no AoO yet, its this (and player stupidity) that tpkd my party over the weekend. I feel movement is too loose but unsure as to how to adress AoO.

One per round?
As much as they want?
Per dex (combat reflexes?)
Always excuse the spelling, and personal opinions are just that personal and opinions. Getting Down with the playtesting of 5th http://community.wizards.com/dndnext/go/thread/view/75882/29139253/Complilation_of_Playtest_Feedback Compilation of Feedback post /bump please

In response to your worry about Skills and Scaling, I don't think it will be such a problem.  DCs are static.  If it is hard to climb up a slick wall, it will always be hard.  The DC will remain constant.   If a DM is really worried, and he wants the players to feel like they are much better, the DM can just decide if a PC is 10th level (especially a rogue or ranger), maybe the hard climb is more of a moderate climb because the PC has had more experience.   Also, I think there will be a way to add to the skills, just not as much as 3e or 4e.  +6 or so on a skill will be mastery.  (This is just speculation from transcripts/interviews I've read in the past...maybe it will change).



This makes a lot of sense, but what more I was going for was that the fighter finds himself in a city without climb, and someone he is chasing gets away on the rooftops. He vows to learn how to climb properly so that he can catch them. I was looking for that kind of thing that can be changed mid game - a sense that the character is learning and growing in skills as well as other areas. But as I (think) I said, this should be adressed with Character Creation and Advancement rules.

The other thing is, a high level Rogue should be able to make a mockery of the wall that he once struggled so hard to climb - and later on climb things that he wouldn't have dreamed it was possible to climb.



I thought about flanking causing advantage and quickly thought again as I feel its too powerfull to give on flanking. Especially without AoO rules.

Im not sure how i fell about no AoO yet, its this (and player stupidity) that tpkd my party over the weekend. I feel movement is too loose but unsure as to how to adress AoO.



Yeah, I found that Advantage was a little too much for flanking too... But I'd like the rogue to be able to get his sneak attack out of it. However, the more I think about it, maybe that's not the best way to go. I'm intrigued to see how this progresses, might try next time without it.

Yeah, I can't say I completely disagree with the lack of OAs either, it did make the game faster. Maybe you just deal your modifier damage automatically? Maybe you make an attack out of turn with Advantage, and skip your turn... That would preserve the speed. (The latter sounds very fighter-y, and maybe rogue-y, maybe a class feature for the more martial classes.) Maybe the more defence inclined classes cause a slow, or just stop the movement?
Something to watch what they do with anyway :D 
yeah my group decided that because of the none to specifc nature of the wording on reactions one could ready an action to do something off turn or they could forward spend their action to take off turn actions.  So an OA (Opportunity Action) was able to be taken if you wished to cash in your next action.  No initiative switch but you could forward spend the action none the less.  Worked out for us.

Also I think they have said that there will definately be skill options as you level up. 
Just a small suggestion on advantages in combat. You should have a minor advantage and a major advantage this represented in dice could be a d12 for the minor advantage and the d20 for the major advantage.


Dont really know if this strikes a good note with everyone but its a solid idea for a lesser varriable. 
Just a small suggestion on advantages in combat. You should have a minor advantage and a major advantage this represented in dice could be a d12 for the minor advantage and the d20 for the major advantage.


Dont really know if this strikes a good note with everyone but its a solid idea for a lesser varriable. 



Was thinking something like this, but the problem is that you're not adding the dice, you're selecting the highest... Which a d12 doesnt really help with. 

I had an idea on the no AoO, or OA depending on your preferred system. Instead of bringing back the extra attack, what if it was just harder to move through squares that are threatened, something to the effect of; when you exit a square that an enemy threatens it costs double the normal movement to enter the next square.

Just an idea, but I thought I would through it out there.

You know, that's not bad... Not bad at all :D

Thank you. It felt like an elegantly simple way to handle it, but I must admit I hope they bring back the AoO, or OA depending on your preferred system, as a feat or part of one of their rules muduals.

Sign In to post comments