05/30/2012 BoaB: "Big Red"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
no volts? wtf
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
Could not disagree more on the sideboard plan vs. wolf run.  When wolf run sees all your artifacts, they are gonna side in anchient grudge and naturalize, effetively neutering precursor golem.  Finally, is getting rid of all your win conditions (minus koth) really all that good an idea for delver?
What happened to the match-reports in the BoaB-series? I know, diffrent author and all that, but I realy liked to read the matchups and plays of the BoaB-decks. In the current form, it's just a deck in theory.
no volts? wtf


yep missed that one. but im not sure what to cut

koth is about 7,50 euro so prob 8$ i guess
 
anyway
i like to a deck with the <a href="http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/boab/197" rel="nofollow">Kuldotha Phoenix</a> and smallpox, it sounds like a lot of fun
koth is about 7,50 euro so prob 8$ i guess
no volts? wtf



I don't really think that volts would work in this deck, as the deck is full mountains and more of a control deck then aggro.  So Slagstorm is basically strictly better then Volt Charge.
no volts? wtf



I don't really think that volts would work in this deck, as the deck is full mountains and more of a control deck then aggro.  So Slagstorm is basically strictly better then Volt Charge.



That could be but then my personal Big Red is a lot different than this one, to the point of Having Inferno Titans, Wurmcoils and over fun things.  Also I just like the added proliferate from the Volt Charge for my Koths, Magnets, Spheres, and Inkmoths.

I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
no volts? wtf



I don't really think that volts would work in this deck, as the deck is full mountains and more of a control deck then aggro.  So Slagstorm is basically strictly better then Volt Charge.



That could be but then my personal Big Red is a lot different than this one, to the point of Having Inferno Titans, Wurmcoils and over fun things.  Also I just like the added proliferate from the Volt Charge for my Koths, Magnets, Spheres, and Inkmoths.




To be fair, at that point, we're no longer BoaB.
As I've said in recent weeks, I'm happier with a janky deck that is actually budget. I think this one comes in around $50, which isn't bad at all. I would like to see some decks that use Innistrad block as the main pieces, because of rotation, and I think prices on AVR have settled enough to make that plausible. Same, I'd like to see the match reports again, JVL did a great job with them, but I think we've seen how many of the Wizards writers are over-taxed with other responsibilities.
This one looks like fun. Jacob, definitely have my thumbs up to expand and start working on it further for next time. Make some time to play and have a match report article.
You realize that he spends an entire week coming up with an idea, tweaking and experimenting with the numbers, occasionally starting all over, in addition to what he does for Wotc? Plus, spending a "budget" every week to come up with match reports seems like a waste. So appreciate them when they come, and don't whine when they don't.

And while we are talking about budget walkers, what is Tibalt costing these days? last I heard it was 25$ but there have been no decks for him, so it must have gone down. Aleft-field strategy like that would be more fun to read about (and imo, to build).
If he was going to do Wild Defiance.dec, he needs to do so NOW before prices on that rare go up. Then again, it might also not be rogue enough to appear in BoaB.

I sent him my personal list a week ago. Haven't heard back.
Assuming $5 shipping, using bidwicket.com prices, free basic lands:

Estimated total cost: 59.65
3 Hoard-Smelter Dragon: 3 @ 0.29; total 0.87                                                                                                                               
4 Kuldotha Phoenix: 4 @ 0.15; total 0.6                                                                                                                                    
2 Contagion Engine: 2 @ 0.65; total 1.3                                                                                                                                    
2 Devil's Play: 2 @ 0.29; total 0.58                                                                                                                                       
4 Pillar of Flame: 4 @ 0.05; total 0.2                                                                                                                                     
4 Pristine Talisman: 4 @ 0.03; total 0.12                                                                                                                                  
2 Slagstorm: 2 @ 3.29; total 6.58                                                                                                                                          
4 Sphere of the Suns: 4 @ 0.25; total 1.0                                                                                                                                  
4 Tezzeret's Gambit: 4 @ 1.19; total 4.76                                                                                                                                  
4 Tumble Magnet: 4 @ 0.04; total 0.16                                                                                                                                      
4 Whipflare: 4 @ 0.59; total 2.36                                                                                                                                          
4 Koth of the Hammer: 4 @ 5.88; total 23.52                                                                                                                                
3 Contagion Clasp: 3 @ 0.19; total 0.57                                                                                                                                    
2 Mimic Vat: 2 @ 0.95; total 1.9                                                                                                                                           
2 Oxidda Scrapmelter: 2 @ 0.02; total 0.04
3 Precursor Golem: 3 @ 0.2; total 0.6
1 Zealous Conscripts: 1 @ 4.49; total 4.49

Yes, I would like to see the Poxy Phoenix deck.

I also would like an article re-visiting this Big Red deck in a couple of weeks, looking at how to tweak it in response to changes in the metagame, taking it through a tournament, and then finishing with a few "where this deck might go next" thoughts.

I have been rocking a Heartless Summoning deck since Jake's original article on that, updating my list in response to the various Ali Aintrazi lists and suggestions on the MTG Salvation boards. Building on a budget is not just about identifying which powerful cards in standard are cheap right now and how to build a list around them without breakin the bank, it's also about how you evolve that list over a season (as you're too poor to just buy another deck next week, right).
Does anyone else notice that Jacob did not show any match-ups where contagion clasp would be good?

This might a good place to put in Volt Charge because this card is very good in certain situations and continues on with "our proliferate shenanigans"

Just wondering. 
Smallpox! Gogogogogogo
@undead
I agree that the volts would/should replace the contagion clasps.  I would even try to find a way to squeeze 2 volts into MB.   Not sure what to cut, perhaps one Koth and one Tumble Magnet? 

 
As for his request for suggestions....I suggest we continue with this deck.   Let's see it evolve some.  In calculating budget for the improved version, I would only count the delta between this next and next week's deck.   
What happened to the match-reports in the BoaB-series? I know, diffrent author and all that, but I realy liked to read the matchups and plays of the BoaB-decks. In the current form, it's just a deck in theory.



I hear you. The match reports were an important aspect. They gave the author a chance to show the quality of the deck.

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

This deck certainly looks interesting and nicely fits the budget theme. I too wouldn't mind seeing it expanded on with more matchups, tweaking and match reports if possible.
Personally, my preference would be to play 20 matches (or so) in the tournament practice room, and post your record.  Posting 3 matches in painstaking detail to show how the deck runs is a waste of space.  We can see how the deck plays out based on the decklist, show us how well it performs in the long run, not the three matches you handpicked to post.  He's never done what I'm suggesting though.

In any case, yes I would like to see the Small Pox/Faithless Looting deck.  In that deck, in addition to Kuldotha Phoenix may I also suggest Vengeful Pharoah?  He's a free removal spell when you can pitch him, plus is a reasonable enough beater.  And he's a Zombie!!!  Him, with Phoenix, and Koth would be enough finishers.  The rest could be pitch and artifacts, and maybe a zombie subtheme???  Geralf's Messenger/Vengeful Pharoah would enable you to play Gravecrawler reasonably well and then you have even more pitch targets.  Gravecrawler with another Zombie on board is infinite pitch.  Last I checked Gravecrawler and Messenger have fallen under $2, maybe you'd have to cut a Koth or two to get under budget, but you may do that anyway.  One Koth = the price of 3 gravecrawlers. Very original, under budget, and probably reasonably good as well, even in a competitive environment.   
Nice deck! I'm with among the others in this one. Would love to see some tweaking on this deck next weak, or the phoenix smallpox deck, wich seems really fun! I love B/R decks!
I'd agree: Koth+Phoenix+Pharoah. But what to pitch him to? When he first came out, before ISD rotated in, I would've said Chandra Ablaze (who is also cheap and fun to proliferate), but now, not so much.

I like Volt Charge for another chance to proliferate. If you throw in some vamps with Koth, proliferate becomes really, really good. A more control-focused deck might just use Ratchet Bomb.
139359831 wrote:
Clever deduction Watson! Maybe you can explain why Supergirl is trying to kill me.
---- Autocard is your friend. Lightning Bolt = Lightning Bolt
You realize that he spends an entire week coming up with an idea, tweaking and experimenting with the numbers, occasionally starting all over, in addition to what he does for Wotc? Plus, spending a "budget" every week to come up with match reports seems like a waste. So appreciate them when they come, and don't whine when they don't.


Clearly he had to come up with a new idea this time around, considering this deck's original source. [/sarcasm]

And recent improvements aside, if he can't satisfy the majority of readers, mayhaps he should stick with just "what he does for Wotc."
Deck blog: http://alurenrecycle.blogspot.com/ http://gureiseion.tumblr.com/
Personally, my preference would be to play 20 matches (or so) in the tournament practice room, and post your record.  Posting 3 matches in painstaking detail to show how the deck runs is a waste of space.  We can see how the deck plays out based on the decklist, show us how well it performs in the long run, not the three matches you handpicked to post.  He's never done what I'm suggesting though. 



That is actually a great idea. After posting the record, he could then talk about what decks he came across and what didn't work and what did. Any important event he wanted to pass on, he could go into detail about the round. 

MaRo: One of the classic R&D stories happened during a Scars of Mirrodin draft. Erik Lauer was sitting to my right (meaning that he passed to me in the first and third packs). At the end of the draft, Erik was upset because I was in his colors (black-green).

He said, "Didn't you see the signals? I went into black-green in pack one."

I replied, "Didn't you see my signals? I started drafting infect six drafts ago." ************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************MaRo: During a playtest, I played a Reaper from the Abyss. I attacked each turn, while my opponent would chump block (he had a lot of fliers), and then I killed a second creature. This happened until he had only one creature left. I attack, he blocked, and then the following dialogue occurred:

Him: Kill your demon. Me: What? Him: My guy died so you have to kill a creature.

Me: Yeah, but why would a demon kill himself?

Him: I don't know. He's depressed there's no one left to kill.

Me: That doesn't make any sense. Him: I don't care. It's what the card says. I then take out my pen, and wrote "non-Demon" on it.

Him: You can't do that.

Me: I redesigned him while the effect was on the stack.

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