First Thoughts: Real praise for currency writeup!

I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.

I can't tell you how much I love this.

The question is, does it shake out? For the most part it looks good. Armor and weapons are all in gold--which is fine because it's mostly the rich who have access to such things. Magic items have been taken off the table as something you can get with gold--which makes a certain amount of sense, and opens up the idea of magic as a barter-only economy. An adventurer meeting the representative of a lord in the back of a smoke-filled tavern to trade a helm of intellect for a pair of boots of spider climb. I kind of like the mood that sets up.

But then there's a couple of wrinkles. there's a power the Healer theme gives you: you collect healing herbs and turn them into healing kits (among other things) all of which require the expenditure of 25 gold in components. I'm not sure what the game balance argument is here, but from an in setting perspective, you have to imagine commoner healers that can create these sorts of remedies--and that the means to make them are all around, growing in forests and meadows. How would something like that ever be worth 25 gold, and if so, how could commoners ever afford to heal their injuries?

Like I said though, on the whole I love the progress here. If we can just get everything working off the same price guidelines I think we'll be in really good shape.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
Don't want to try a justify it too much but an argument for this might go something like this - it is a kit that anyone can use, that has 10 uses. A healer just has to go out and collect the herbs, but this is not the expensive part in the creation of the kit. The real expense comes from being able to convert it into something that can be used by anyone and can be carried around with you.

Just a thought for it anyway...

I'm not sure what the game balance argument is here, but from an in setting perspective, you have to imagine commoner healers that can create these sorts of remedies--and that the means to make them are all around, growing in forests and meadows. How would something like that ever be worth 25 gold, and if so, how could commoners ever afford to heal their injuries?



Commoners aren't usually healing hit points. The healing they're in need of is usually in the form of antibiotics, disinfectants, and relief of the symptoms of disease. So what you'd have in a "commoner herbalist" is someone who uses natural cures as opposed to the "PC herbalist" who uses real magic to heal wounds. The distinction isn't really apparent on the character sheet, but the htp manual description of a healing potion clearly defines it as "magical" healing. Thus, the price is beyond most Commoners.

However, you can be sure that you're not the only one who has a problem with the Herbalism feat and the price/availability of potions, as you'll discover if you peruse the threads for a couple of minutes. Dissention is everywhere.

Respectfully,

compliant_screenname

For these few posts I was trying to give my impressions before I'd read other people's posts hoping to give an unbiased first brush with the playtest. That said, if the herbalism thing isn't just me then I feel good to see the game is moving in a direction I think is positive.

That said I've never been the kind of person that thinks commoners have a different kind of hit points than heroes. Sure it might be abstract, but lots of commoners get run over by carts or gored by angry bulls and find themselves in need of healing. I can imagine local healers using what they know about local remedies being able to help without any magic at all--I mean how many medicines used to be tree bark or bread mold? That said, moldy loaves of bread aren't 25 gold a pop.

That said I can tell you're coming at this from way more of a gamist perspective than I am, and that's okay. Hopefully the rules can inject a whole bunch of internal consistancy and verisimilitude without hurting the fun of the game play. At the end of the day, here's to a game we can all enjoy.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.

I can't tell you how much I love this.



Actually, the coin section made me angry.  The specified-in-the-rules that certain coinages types (electrum and platinum) come from ancient kingdoms and cause distrust hit the exact wrong note.  I dislike the rules dictating my campaign world, and there seemed no purpose to have those few sentences.  I need to house rule official flavor our of my coinage?  Who are you kidding?

"...you might be eaten by a Grue."

That said I've never been the kind of person that thinks commoners have a different kind of hit points than heroes. Sure it might be abstract, but lots of commoners get run over by carts or gored by angry bulls and find themselves in need of healing. I can imagine local healers using what they know about local remedies being able to help without any magic at all--I mean how many medicines used to be tree bark or bread mold? That said, moldy loaves of bread aren't 25 gold a pop.

That said I can tell you're coming at this from way more of a gamist perspective than I am, and that's okay. Hopefully the rules can inject a whole bunch of internal consistancy and verisimilitude without hurting the fun of the game play. At the end of the day, here's to a game we can all enjoy.



I think of myself as more of a "narrativist/simulationst", personally. I wasn't suggesting commoners have a different kind of hit points, only that they have very few of them (probably 1 or 2). Most injuries don't cause actual hit point damage (in game terms) because, if they did, everytime a commoner hit his thumb with a hammer he'd have to make a saving throw or die. Again, what do you mean "find themselves in need of healing"? If someone gets gored by a bull, they have some surgery done, try to keep infection out of it, and, after some time resting, they're healed. That's "natural" healing. That's what I was talking about when I said "the healing they're in need of is usually in the form of antibiotics, disinfectants, and relief of the symptoms of disease". That should include (which I think was one of your points) the Healer's Kit, which is non-magical. A Healer's Kit (and an antitoxin, even) should be nowhere near 50 gp (or even 25).

I thought (perhaps mistakenly) that you were suggesting any common herbalist should be able to make a magical healing potion for less than 25gp.



I am a pretty dignified person. I seldom if ever squee. But when I started to read the section on currency I couldn't help but feel like I was seeing something new and cool in the game I love. Real hard and fast specificity like I've never seen before. Coppers are the coins of the common people with silver peices for their occasional high end purchases. Gold coins are the coins of wealthy merchants, nobles and dragons hordes. Coins are a third of an ounce each, with 50 of them adding up to a pound.

I can't tell you how much I love this.


Isn't that almost word for word the same thing in the 3e book?

An healer kit can cost 50g if it's not a commoner one but something that uses rare spices and is in use by wealthy people. The problem now becomes: How can an herbalist make it out of some common herbs?



Maybe that it can be fixed this way, the herbalist PC cannot make those kits, but by a proper knowledge of dosage and integrating those rare medicines with more common ones they can double the charges on the kits. Same effects balance wise and we get to keep it realistic. 

It occurs to me, in the case of the Healer's Kit, that it's a multiple-use item. In the above example of a commoner being gored by a bull, he'd still only need one use of the item to help him heal. If the Herbalist assembled the kit himself, the cost for 1 dose would be 2 gold and 5 silver. While this amount of coin would still be beyond most commoners, the Herbalist would most likely accept barter items or work out some sort of payment plan with the commoner.

For example, a sheep (according to 3e rules for trade items) is worth about 2gp. The commoner might give the Herbalist a sheep (or produce, or tobacco, or whatever trade the commoner works in) and  whatever copper coins he can afford, and then maybe agree to work off the rest of the bill, helping the Herbalist with whatever tasks he might need until his bill is paid.

It's really a question of whether you want to make the rules fit the simulation, or have the simulation fit the rules.
The commoner might give the Herbalist a sheep (or produce, or tobacco, or whatever trade the commoner works in) and  whatever copper coins he can afford, and then maybe agree to work off the rest of the bill, helping the Herbalist with whatever tasks he might need until his bill is paid.



I really like this sort of thing. The "my daughter got injured so we're selling the haycart and all our furniture to be able to buy her some medicine". That said, it's still a little weird that commoner herbalists are still commoners if there's dozens of gold peices worth of plants just lying around everywhere. I think it's really probably just more of a thing where the designers were coming up with the gold value for other reasons and the results are just wonky.

That said, I guess I rather a world where the commoners and adventurers had the same "bloodied" hit points--say 5-10. And all the additional hit points reflect more "John MacLane" damage: getting thrown around, demoralized, scraped and bruised--and then were "dying" until they got to their negative constitution. The idea that being a "normal" person turns you into some kind of minion that's born to bump your toe and die just really bugs me. So yeah, a peasant gets gored by a bull, takes the 10 or so damage that comes from that and needs treatment. I'm really okay with that. That feels like it creates a more reasonable world.

If the adventurer takes the same 10 hit points of damage but rolls aside with a bad abrasion and ends up wincing in the mud--I can handle that as long as somewhere in there you have a bloodied pool of hit points where it's at least possible he could be in the same position as the normal guy.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
Isn't that almost word for word the same thing in the 3e book?



Man I'll feel dumb if it is. I've been campaigning a long time to try and see a more reasoned kind of money system in D&D because I've poured over the old books looking for this kind of rubrick and have never been able to find it. There's been rules about how much it costs to stay at an in, and how much trade goods cost--but there's always been weirdness--like gems that cost hundreds of gold, or bits of jewelry that are intrinsically worth tens of times what their materials are made of. And magic items--holy crud, the cost of magic items!

I've just been eager for a version of D&D that deals with: this is how much money different people have, therefore here's some reasonable prices for what things should cost. It seems weird to me that anyone in the setting would have enough money to buy some of the things that are for sale--and even weirder that anyone would, concidering that for the same price they could buy an entire castle and an army to guard it. It just feels like something needs reworked. I would love to hear from some of the smarter than me folks on the boards who actually know what money was like back in SCA times to weigh in on here someday and get a sense of what things actually cost back then. It's one of a few places in D&D where some history lessons might make the game setting more internally consistent--and that's something I always love.
 
Interestingly when I first started playing D&D it was after playing the old Baldur's Gate PC game. Weirdly enough the prices in that game, while totally unrelated to prices in the pen and paper game, are so much better. I actually have printed out a list of item prices from that game and for the most part have used that.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
Why would a commoner need a healing kit? Any damage they take during a day (that doesn't kill them) can be healed by 8 hours of rest. 

Healing kits are for people who have been hurt and plan on getting in harm's way again during the same day. This isn't the lifestyle of a commoner.

Peasant healers most likely are there to help with things like illness and poisonings and the like. These herbal remedies are of a different scale, perhaps only giving a bonus to a healing check. It still might cost several silver (a fortune to a commoner) but it wouldn't be near the price of a 10-charge mega-healing pack.
In game? because if you're seriously injured, "Dying" as the packet refers to it, bedrest won't help. Out of game because often if you tell a seriously injured person to just sleep it off, they just die. Who knows? PCs might actually have to deal with the lives of common people sometime--and if they run by a totally different rules set then things can get weird:

The village elder has crucial information to give the PCs but is run down by a worg that has gone into town and beelined for his cabin and mauled him. The PC's kill the creature, but the elder is horribly wounded (a whole 2 hp!). They tend him through the night and the next day he pops out of bed fresh as a daisy!

Granted, it's not like GMs can't just handwave anything they want--you can have a guy stay mauled as long as you want--but if the rules make sense at the ground floor then the whole game functions in a way that you aren't having to handwave everything all the time. Otherwise you end up with a game full of silly mechanics that people make web comics about.
Now with 100% more Vorthos!
I understand your point, Grimcleaver. The rules definitely need tweaking, and this kind of feedback can only help the developers (assuming they're open-minded enough to listen).
In game? because if you're seriously injured, "Dying" as the packet refers to it, bedrest won't help. Out of game because often if you tell a seriously injured person to just sleep it off, they just die. Who knows? PCs might actually have to deal with the lives of common people sometime--and if they run by a totally different rules set then things can get weird:



By the rules of the D&D world you generally have about 18 seconds to live if you are "Dying". Unless a commoner has someone with him carrying a kit, it won't matter if the local apothacary has something.

So again you are left with a situation where a commoner is either dead...or able to rest for healing.

The expense of healing kits makes sense due to their power. And they aren't something commoners would typically have in their lives.

The village elder has crucial information to give the PCs but is run down by a worg that has gone into town and beelined for his cabin and mauled him. The PC's kill the creature, but the elder is horribly wounded (a whole 2 hp!). They tend him through the night and the next day he pops out of bed fresh as a daisy!

Granted, it's not like GMs can't just handwave anything they want--you can have a guy stay mauled as long as you want--but if the rules make sense at the ground floor then the whole game functions in a way that you aren't having to handwave everything all the time. Otherwise you end up with a game full of silly mechanics that people make web comics about.



That seems more an issue with the way healing works - which isn't the topic of this thread. My point is that, within the current healing rules, a Healing Kit makes sense as something priced above the means of a commoner.
A couple quick thoughts on this:

D&D has never been truly simulationist.  I like the way compliant_screenname wrote up the healer scenario and it makes sense in game. But not everything in the D&D economy is going to work out quite right.  Using a medieval model, armor would be immensely expensive. Livestock would also be more pricey. 

For the most part, the D&D economy is all kinds of messed up. Peasants may see only a few gold coins a year, but the kobold lair contains enough treasure to buy a small village. If you suspend your disbelief that treasure is just lying around almost every hole in the ground, the pricing of healing kits seemes like the least of the economic oddities.

I'm not sure why the kobolds don't just join society as contributing memebers. The chiefain could probably get elected to city council if he spreads some of that wealth around. Heck, even his Dire Rat wears 15 GP worth of bling!     His friends call him D-Rat.

I'm not suggesting examination of prices should be ignored... all the tires need kicking on the new version. But no matter what tweaks you make, there will always be some disconnects. 

___________________________________________________________________

Check out the Owlbear blog! http://ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/

It's in the 3.5e PHB, p. 112.  Don't feel too dumb, I'm sure there are plenty of people who miss short drive-by fluff blurbs.

Yes, the system doesn't work. *But*...if you want to you can see it as kinda working.  Here's how.

The silver piece is specified as being the day's wage of a common laborer.  This tells me that the designers based it off the Roman denarius, which had the same value.  According to historical analysis, a rough equivalent with modern US$ would put a denarius at about $20. (For some purposes.) (Further reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius)

1 Copper = $2
1 Silver = $20
1 Gold = $200
1 Platinum = $2000
and
1 Electrum = $100

So let's look at how much a common laborer earns in a year. Let's give him one day a week off, and a few other holidays, and say he works 300 days.

Common Laborer Annual Income = $6,000

Not much, huh?  Of course, you shold take into account that there would be multiple wage-earners in a family.  If they live rurally, they might also have an investment in livestock like chickens or milk-cows that give them more than they cost in milk and eggs over the lifetime of the creatures.  (Urban dwellers have it rougher.)

Let's give the skilled artisan a few more days off.  He's doing well, he can set his own schedule. He'll work 250 days per year.

Skilled Artisan Annual Income = $50,000 ($100,000+)

Much more comfortable than the commoner.  Still not buying a lot of high-end luxury items.  However, you can expect he has a couple apprentices, and maybe even some journeymen employees.  After paying their wages, he can probably at least be doubling that rate to the parenthetical listed.  Now we're starting to see a real middle-class.

So if you start converting items, you see that some of them make a decent amount of sense.  I'll take all of this out of the 3.5 PHB.

One chicken = $4
One sheep = $400
One cow = $2,000

Candle = $2
Mug = $4
Lamp = $20
Iron Pot = $100

Other than there being some real high-end cookware going on there, those aren't too terribly off.  Some items on the equipment list work well-enough, others less so.

Let's look at the military equipment.

Dagger = $400
Longsword = $3,000
Composite Longbow = $20,000 (unmodified)
and
MW Longsword = $63,000
+1 Longsword = $463,000

So you're looking at half a commoner's yearly wages for a good sword, and almost half a million $ for an entry-level magical sword.

Using those prices you start to see the D&D world value of a gold piece.  I like reminding PCs of these prices, so they take those $20 silvers laying around a bit more seriously, and realize how a handful of gold looks to the average person.

You can see from these numbers how fabulously wealthy adventurers become really, really quickly.

Are there a lot of problems and items that don't make sense?  Of course.  You can't simulate a real economy with the PHB. *But* you can create a relatively believable fantasy D&D economy, if you keep in mind the value of an sp.

(I am going to say right now: ignore most of prices for real estate and other non-adventurer things in the DMG. They'd charge that commoner $200,000 for his simple house, and that's pushing it for someone whose entire family probably only has a couple thousand in disposable income per year (if that).  I also recommend ignoring most of the prices for food and lodging and other sundries that just won't work right in this economy.)

For a better pricing scale across the board (that closely follows the PHB pricing), check out Ye Olde Shoppe. You can download it for free from some of the online RPG stores. It's a world supplement for someone's custom campaign, but most of the prices in it are great, and it has listings for everything from buying and running a farm to buying lace to sew onto a dress. The prices all appear to be painstakingly internally balanced also.

I'm sure someone knows more than I do about this, and if they have a lot of time on their hands they might share it with us, but that level of detail is sufficient for me.

Healer's kit. Yeah, $10,000 is some pretty nice medical equipment there. I'd recommend interpreting it as making use of serious, rare, high-end herbs and spices. Not the sort of thing you find in an average herbalist's garden. Which makes a lot of sense, since the Herbalism feat allows you to make honest to goodness *magical* healing potions from them. It's equipment for adventurers and the wealthy. Basically the more woodsy version of alchemy.  It isn't the sort of poultices your average herbalist uses. So perhaps if you think of the feat as "Advanced Herbalism" and the kit as an advanced kit, it makes a bit more sense. Why do you need something that expensive to patch yourself up after a battle? Hmm...I'll have to come up with something for that if the final economy for D&D Next keeps those prices. It does allow you to stabilize a dying character in a couple of seconds in the middle of a raging battle though. That implies some serious stuff.

I'm not sure why the kobolds don't just join society as contributing memebers. The chiefain could probably get elected to city council if he spreads some of that wealth around. Heck, even his Dire Rat wears 15 GP worth of bling!     His friends call him D-Rat.



Hehe. Yep.

Howdy folks,

I've moved this thread to a forum where it is more on-topic.

Thanks.   

All around helpful simian

..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />For the most part, the D&D economy is all kinds of messed up. Peasants may see only a few gold coins a year, but the kobold lair contains enough treasure to buy a small village. If you suspend your disbelief that treasure is just lying around almost every hole in the ground, the pricing of healing kits seemes like the least of the economic oddities.

I'm not sure why the kobolds don't just join society as contributing memebers. The chiefain could probably get elected to city council if he spreads some of that wealth around. Heck, even his Dire Rat wears 15 GP worth of bling!     His friends call him D-Rat.



D-Rat! HA!

These are the sorts of discussions that I loved to have about D&D. 4e, while I've had a lot of fun playing it, seemed to lack the minor details that I like to obsess over week after week. I know the material in the playtest packet is incomplete, but I sincerely hope that D&D Next tackles these issues. Heck, I'd even be willing to pay for an entire supplement dedicated to the ins and outs of common life in the D&D universe (though I may be a minority on that point).

I like lists of trade goods, mundane items, hirelings, henchmen, and other such minutae. In previous games, my groups would often times spend their wealth, rather than on magical gear, on business ventures, homes, barrister fees, company charters, and clerks. I've had players draw up fictional business charters for Adventuring Companies that detail division of profit-shares, plans for funeral arrangements for hirelings, and much more. They'd build guildhalls, stock barns with wagons, shovels, block and tackle, and other gear, and rent out their land to farmers and herders in exchange for a share of their production.

I'd buy that book.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.


I like lists of trade goods, mundane items, hirelings, henchmen, and other such minutae. In previous games, my groups would often times spend their wealth, rather than on magical gear, on business ventures, homes, barrister fees, company charters, and clerks. I've had players draw up fictional business charters for Adventuring Companies that detail division of profit-shares, plans for funeral arrangements for hirelings, and much more. They'd build guildhalls, stock barns with wagons, shovels, block and tackle, and other gear, and rent out their land to farmers and herders in exchange for a share of their production.



I loved the 2nd Edition equipment lists. Need to buy a fleet of warships? Page 67 has anything you'd want on it... and who can forget the exhaustive list of polearms from AD&D? (with pictures!!) I'd love to see some of that in DDN. Ok, so we probably don't need a Glaive, Glaive-Guisarme and Guisarme-Volge, but how about a Bardiche for old time's sake?

 Ok, so I'm not totally serious about the polearms... but I did like the extensive equipment list. It would be nice to have a decent sized one in the 5e PHB (with perhaps an extended one appearing in the DMG). 2nd Edition had a lot of really great out-of-combat content in the PHB and DMG. It would be nice to see some of that make a come back.

___________________________________________________________________

Check out the Owlbear blog! http://ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/

Yes and yes.

I miss the galley, trade galley prices sitting in the transport section.

Castle per square foot pricing would be nice as well with fortification prices such as burning pitch and moat cost.

I love the idea of building your own base camp with all that loot and then hiring people to man it in your absence.

This is what we always did when we were licking our wounds for weeks at a time.

Gave down time a purpose and needing a safe house to heal gave incentive to actually do this.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

...I've had players draw up fictional business charters for Adventuring Companies that detail division of profit-shares, plans for funeral arrangements for hirelings, and much more. They'd build guildhalls, stock barns with wagons, shovels, block and tackle, and other gear, and rent out their land to farmers and herders in exchange for a share of their production.

"A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe" is the book I use for that. Also, count me in for more weapons (ie various pole-arms, perhaps non-European weapons too) in the finished book.
Will have to take a look at that book. Thanks for the recommendation.

Edition wars kill players,Dungeons and Dragons needs every player it can get.

Poo. Currently unavailable on Amazon. *sadness*

I was pointed here for various lists and prices compiled from the various editions of D&D. You guys might enjoy this, if you don't already know about it.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Poo. Currently unavailable on Amazon. *sadness*

I was pointed here for various lists and prices compiled from the various editions of D&D. You guys might enjoy this, if you don't already know about it.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...



Great resource. The other book is available from Steve Jackson Games as a PDF.

 e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=XRP1002

___________________________________________________________________

Check out the Owlbear blog! http://ragingowlbear.blogspot.com/

It's in the 3.5e PHB, p. 112.  Don't feel too dumb, I'm sure there are plenty of people who miss short drive-by fluff blurbs.

Yes, the system doesn't work. *But*...if you want to you can see it as kinda working.  Here's how.

The silver piece is specified as being the day's wage of a common laborer.  This tells me that the designers based it off the Roman denarius, which had the same value.  According to historical analysis, a rough equivalent with modern US$ would put a denarius at about $20. (For some purposes.) (Further reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius)



Coolest post ever. Holy cow. I knew if I was patient and waited I'd pull a post like this. Thanks man. That's just awesome stuff. So out of curiousity--with the parts that don't fit as written, what are we looking at price wise? I'm not adverse to sticking post-its in my PHB.

Now with 100% more Vorthos!
It's in the 3.5e PHB, p. 112.  Don't feel too dumb, I'm sure there are plenty of people who miss short drive-by fluff blurbs.

Yes, the system doesn't work. *But*...if you want to you can see it as kinda working.  Here's how.

The silver piece is specified as being the day's wage of a common laborer.  This tells me that the designers based it off the Roman denarius, which had the same value.  According to historical analysis, a rough equivalent with modern US$ would put a denarius at about $20. (For some purposes.) (Further reference: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denarius)



Coolest post ever. Holy cow. I knew if I was patient and waited I'd pull a post like this. Thanks man. That's just awesome stuff. So out of curiousity--with the parts that don't fit as written, what are we looking at price wise? I'm not adverse to sticking post-its in my PHB.


Notice the inflation between the Classical Period (Rome) and the Medieval Period (Britain).



Roman Aureus (gold) −> Aureus Solidus (solid gold) −> Solidus −> British Shilling (silver)
Roman Denari (silver) −> British Pence (silver penny)
Well, I can tell you where the bad parts *are.* All of this is based on the 3.5e PHB and DMG.

1. The upkeep section of the DMG. It is inconsistent with the prices of food and lodging in the PHB.
2. The spellcasting prices in the PHB are ridiculously exorbitant.

A man in adventuring attire walks into a temple of Pelor.
Priest: "Greetings to you.  How fares Brother Anthony?"
Adventurer: "He decided to go visit family, so he's taking the long way back to town."
Priest: "Well then, how may I assist you in your spiritual needs?"
Adventurer: "I got into a little run-in with bandits on the way back from the dungeon, and I was hoping I could get one of those nice little Cure Serious Wounds spells that Anthony wields so well."
Priest: "I see, my child. We do request a donation for the service, to assist in the clergy's promotion of good and right."
Adventurer (pulls out $20 and drops it in the donation box). "Of course."
Priest: "While we thank you for your generosity, the needs of the ministry do require slightly more."
Adventurer (nods and drops $200 into the donation box). "Tough times, huh."
Priest (smiles patiently): "I'm afraid that we have to ask for $30,000 for this service."
Adventurer (scrunches up his face and pauses before speaking): "Isn't that a little steep? I've been traveling with Brother Anthony for quite some time, and I know for a fact that it doesn't take him more than 3 or 4 minutes of prayer to prepare that spell, and there aren't any special components that go into the casting either."
Priest (smiling): "Well of course we can offer a discount for the faithful who promote good in the world. Let's drop it to half, $15,000."
Adventurer: "So you're telling me that I can either go down to the dealership and buy that stallion I've had my eye on, or I can 'donate' that cash for 4 minutes of your morning prayer?"
Priest: "Well, the temple does have needs that must be attended to."
Adventurer steps outside and looks up towards the front of the building.
Priest: "What is the problem, child?"
Adventurer (scans the building casually): "I thought this was the temple of Pelor.  I'm just checking to make sure I didn't accidentally walk into the temple to Olidamma."
Priest frowns.
Adventurer (stepping back inside): "Look Brother, no offense, but I think instead of paying that sort of hospital bill I'm going to head home and take a couple of days off with a good book and maybe splurge on a bottle of fine wine." (Musing to self while walking out the door) "...maybe I'll stop by the dealership on the way home."

3. The price of buildings starts too high and scales too slowly.  $200,000 sounds a bit steep for a "simple house of 1 to 3 rooms," especially with what the average peasant makes. Even if you drop it to 25% for a 1-room cottage that needs some work, we're still looking at something that would be difficult for a peasant to afford. Some might say it's a reasonable price, but according to the upkeep rules, a peasant should only be making about $2,400 per year after upkeep--and that isn't including investing in livestock and other important business necessities a peasant might have.

Young peasant man with wife, children, 3 cows, 5 pigs, and a dozen goats in tow.
Real Estate Agent (gesturing to a slightly dilapidated 1-room cottage): "And so here we have it. An excellent value for $50,000."
Peasant (jaw drops): "Did you say $50,000? For this? The roof leaks! And...and...the stones are comin' loose!"
Agent: "I assure you, despite the slight maintenance needs, this cottage is well worth the market price."
Peasant: "I've bin workin' 10 years to save up!" He sputters, "I've brought 3 good cows!  And...and pigs!"
Agent: "Well, that's a nice start, but--
Peasant: "Goats!"
Agent: "--it's going to run a bit more than $11,000 for a good home like this."
Peasant (wide-eyed and jaw agape): "We only makes $3,000 a year after upkeep!  Nellie's bin sellin' 'er hair!"
Agent: "I'm sorry that's it's such a sacrifice for you but--"
Peasant (pointing to small, barefoot daughter): "Little Emmie ain't got no shoes!"
Agent (sighs): "Would you like to think about it for a while first?"
Peasant: "It's not e'en furnished!"
Agent (holds up iron pot): "It comes with this."
Peasant: "That's just a pot!"
Short-haired peasant wife whispers something in his ear.
Peasant: "Okay, 'premium cookware,' but I still can't pay it!"
Agent: "It does come with a garden."
Peasant (sputtering): "The soil ain't even black!"
Peasant (sighs and takes hold of the cow ropes): "Nellie, get the pigs, we'll hafta move back in with your brother."
Peasant (suddenly stops): "Honey, is your brother still in the clergy."
Nellie nods.
Peasant: "Go ahead and take the livestock back."
Peasant (turning back to agent): "Eh' there. What would you say if I offered coupons for a couple of Cure Serious Wounds?"

I also, personally, don't like the price of mercenaries scaling by level, but most of the NPC service prices are right.

What I'd really recommend though, is to go download this:

www.rpgnow.com/product/64423/Ye-Olde-Sho...

After I ran across that, I stopped trying to adjust prices myself. Everything in that book is internally consistent, and it sticks with PHB prices as much as possible (except for things like spell-casting.)

If you don't like that, I'd recommend cutting the price of spellcasting down to 10% (not counting any costly components), with half price discounts for clerical magic from friendly temples. For real estate, maybe drop the price of houses in half and call it good. For upkeep, you'd want to try piecing together prices from the food and lodging section in the PHB equipment lists. Extravagant, for instance, ough to be at lest 1000 gp based on food and lodging prices (which are a bit high themselves).

Yeah, I like it to be believable. :-)


Okay, nix what I said before! This is the coolest post ever. I'm going to print this off and hang it on my wall! Heh. Awesome!
Now with 100% more Vorthos!